FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen *4 Guilty* #22
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However she and her family choose to celebrate her 74th birthday, it will never come close to what she/they imagined it would be 2 years ago! I would use the day to reflect on the evil and ill conceived schemes my family chose to put in motion. Wake up DA!! Your actions were not/are not rational, normal or tolerated in a civilized society. If you question your current situation, just look at the other women in the jail...how many of them are even close to age 70??? She should have have been content with sharing her family's accomplishments (ie the norm for most grandparents. Right?), enjoying retirement and traveling the world.
I must disagree with DR's assessment that "she is smart."
PS @Marvinberry...Wonder why "Text Photo" (I think item #5) is of such importance? Of all the items, that on piqued my interest. Anybody else wonder?
file:///C:/Users/1982/Downloads/Answer%20to%20DFD%201-29-24%20(1).pdf
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Going Rogue
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The activity around here has been a little slow so I thought I’d bring up a controversial topic 
. Besides me, has anyone actually physically mapped out the difference in distance and time had Wendi gone to Market Square Liquors instead of ABC Liquors?" IMO, Wendi’s ‘decision’ to go to ABC Liquors is BY FAR the BIGGEST hurdle for Wendi and her legal team if that day finally comes. The facts are the difference between the routes from Wendi’s house to ABC then to Mosaic vs. Wendi’s house to Market Square Liquors then to Mosaic is only a total of 3.2 miles! It’s about a 5-minute difference in total travel time. Below are the physical addresses if you want to spend the 3 minutes to map it out.
I understand the argument of the timing and why she selected ABC is a valid argument – my point is the difference in distance is not as extreme as being reported in social media. Also, the fact that she ‘attempted’ to drive down Trescott is another detail that is discussed ad nauseam. What I don’t see anyone point out is that Jeff Lacasse testified that Wendi often took that route (cutting thorough Trescott) when traveling with him, so it seems that it was the way she traveled and its was in fact a ‘cut through’ she used.
Route Wendi took – Total route 9.2 miles
. Besides me, has anyone actually physically mapped out the difference in distance and time had Wendi gone to Market Square Liquors instead of ABC Liquors?" IMO, Wendi’s ‘decision’ to go to ABC Liquors is BY FAR the BIGGEST hurdle for Wendi and her legal team if that day finally comes. The facts are the difference between the routes from Wendi’s house to ABC then to Mosaic vs. Wendi’s house to Market Square Liquors then to Mosaic is only a total of 3.2 miles! It’s about a 5-minute difference in total travel time. Below are the physical addresses if you want to spend the 3 minutes to map it out.I understand the argument of the timing and why she selected ABC is a valid argument – my point is the difference in distance is not as extreme as being reported in social media. Also, the fact that she ‘attempted’ to drive down Trescott is another detail that is discussed ad nauseam. What I don’t see anyone point out is that Jeff Lacasse testified that Wendi often took that route (cutting thorough Trescott) when traveling with him, so it seems that it was the way she traveled and its was in fact a ‘cut through’ she used.
Route Wendi took – Total route 9.2 miles
- Wendi’s Address - 3303 Aqua Ridge Way Tallahassee
- ABC Liquors - 1930 Thomasville Rd Tallahassee
- Mosaic Restaurant - 1410 Market St Tallahassee
- Wendi’s Address - 3303 Aqua Ridge Way Tallahassee
- Market Square Liquors - 1415 Timberlane Rd Tallahassee
- Mosaic Restaurant - 1410 Market St Tallahassee
I don’t really have much to add but it’s interesting! Do you really think she will be arrested at some point for the murder? I’m losing doubt that she ever will be.The activity around here has been a little slow so I thought I’d bring up a controversial topic
I understand the argument of the timing and why she selected ABC is a valid argument – my point is the difference in distance is not as extreme as being reported in social media. Also, the fact that she ‘attempted’ to drive down Trescott is another detail that is discussed ad nauseam. What I don’t see anyone point out is that Jeff Lacasse testified that Wendi often took that route (cutting thorough Trescott) when traveling with him, so it seems that it was the way she traveled and its was in fact a ‘cut through’ she used.
Route Wendi took – Total route 9.2 miles
If Wendi went to Market Square liquors first – Total route 6 miles
- Wendi’s Address - 3303 Aqua Ridge Way Tallahassee
- ABC Liquors - 1930 Thomasville Rd Tallahassee
- Mosaic Restaurant - 1410 Market St Tallahassee
Love to hear some other thoughts on this because from my perspective when I break it down I think it’s an obstacle that will be hard to overcome. However, I think the narrative that she traveled some extremely LONG distance on ‘the other side of town’ by going to ABC Liquors is being massively blown out of proportion in social media. I also realize her varying testimonies about her attempt to drive onto Trescott is an issue, but, personally, I see that as a separate issue and unrelated to the fact that she did intend to take Trescott in route to ABC.
- Wendi’s Address - 3303 Aqua Ridge Way Tallahassee
- Market Square Liquors - 1415 Timberlane Rd Tallahassee
- Mosaic Restaurant - 1410 Market St Tallahassee
I've watched some docs about this case and am somewhat familiar.
Oh what a tangled web we weave and all that ...
I've long believed his wife was somewhat complicit.
There's a lot of catching up I have to do, just in this thread alone !
Thanks to everyone for filling in some questions I've had.
Omo.
Oh what a tangled web we weave and all that ...
I've long believed his wife was somewhat complicit.
There's a lot of catching up I have to do, just in this thread alone !
Thanks to everyone for filling in some questions I've had.
Omo.
GOINGROGUE...ok, I'll bite. But, WA was "low on gas" and short on time. So, it doesn't make sense to go out of her way to buy a $25 bottle of booze and then have to waste even more time to get gas if she was already running late. However, if I wanted to make an excuse and also make sure I had an alibi/time stamps/receipts for being in the area and checking on why ex-husband was not answering the phone??? Just sayin' .. It doesn't make sense to have a conversation about bourbon if you already had an invitation expressly asking for that specific brand of Bourbon. For example: Why would I need to have a conversation with a McDonald's worker about hamburgers if my friends asked me to pick up a specific hamburger. If they asked for 2 Big Macs, I would just pick up two Big Macs. But, if I wanted to make sure the worker remembered my visit, then I would probably engage them in a flirty conversation about the quality of hamburgers and my unique eyes, too. (Oh brother, go figure.) And then, knowing I am running out of time, also decide it was time to gas up my van, and pick up another receipt/excuse for being in the area. Having "an excuse to be in the area" is not the same as "having a reason to be in the area." Classic CYA, IMO.The activity around here has been a little slow so I thought I’d bring up a controversial topic
I understand the argument of the timing and why she selected ABC is a valid argument – my point is the difference in distance is not as extreme as being reported in social media. Also, the fact that she ‘attempted’ to drive down Trescott is another detail that is discussed ad nauseam. What I don’t see anyone point out is that Jeff Lacasse testified that Wendi often took that route (cutting thorough Trescott) when traveling with him, so it seems that it was the way she traveled and its was in fact a ‘cut through’ she used.
Route Wendi took – Total route 9.2 miles
If Wendi went to Market Square liquors first – Total route 6 miles
- Wendi’s Address - 3303 Aqua Ridge Way Tallahassee
- ABC Liquors - 1930 Thomasville Rd Tallahassee
- Mosaic Restaurant - 1410 Market St Tallahassee
Love to hear some other thoughts on this because from my perspective when I break it down I think it’s an obstacle that will be hard to overcome. However, I think the narrative that she traveled some extremely LONG distance on ‘the other side of town’ by going to ABC Liquors is being massively blown out of proportion in social media. I also realize her varying testimonies about her attempt to drive onto Trescott is an issue, but, personally, I see that as a separate issue and unrelated to the fact that she did intend to take Trescott in route to ABC.
- Wendi’s Address - 3303 Aqua Ridge Way Tallahassee
- Market Square Liquors - 1415 Timberlane Rd Tallahassee
- Mosaic Restaurant - 1410 Market St Tallahassee
Editing to add...all her "excuses" were created after she didn't get a return phone call from DM.
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Going Rogue
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In my opinion, based on the evidence the state has shared publicly, it will be very difficult to convict Wendi and the state knows the evidence against Wendi isn’t strong enough to win a conviction OR they lack the confidence to take the chance with the evidence they ‘currently' have. I’m surprised at the amount of times I see people asking the million-dollar question ‘when will Wendi be arrested?’ <modsnip> Unless the state finds new evidence, I think the chances are slim she will ever be convicted of murder. I also think the last thing the Tally DOA needs or wants are more legal pundits publicly pontificating about how strong the case against Wendi is without ever objectively discussing the case.
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Going Rogue
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The whole point of my post was to highlight the route was only 3.2 miles or 5 minutes longer. Why she chose ABC is a different argument. I’ll still answer your questions because they are good. If your question or argument is ‘why did she go out of her way?’, I’ll play devils advocate and say is the total distance is almost negligible AND if ABC was the liquor store she ‘planned’ on visiting before lunch, then it wasn’t ‘out of her way’ - rather it was her intended ‘first stop’... it’s a matter of perspective. Also, yes, she did say she ‘was running late’ and skipped her shower, do you think if she went to Market Square Liquors instead and saved the 5 minutes that would have made a difference? I say no, and she still would have had to stop for gas regardless. Do you think the additional 3.2 miles was reason she needed gas? As far as the conversation about bourbon, I recall she just said she asked the guy where the bourbon was, I don’t recall any detailed conversation about bourbon?
I agree with you… just wanted to hear your opinion.In my opinion, based on the evidence the state has shared publicly, it will be very difficult to convict Wendi and the state knows the evidence against Wendi isn’t strong enough to win a conviction OR they lack the confidence to take the chance with the evidence they ‘currently' have. I’m surprised at the amount of times I see people asking the million-dollar question ‘when will Wendi be arrested?’ Without specifically naming anyone, I think there is one particular ‘legal’ pundit that has a very large following that seems to have changed the public’s perception on the strength of the case against Wendi. In my opinion, this ‘pundit’, who has decent credentials on paper, grossly oversimplifies the case against Wendi and has done more to change the public’s perception on the strength of the case than anyone excluding a few random ‘non-legal’ case experts (using the term ‘experts’ loosely
In my opinion, based on the evidence the state has shared publicly, it will be very difficult to convict Wendi and the state knows the evidence against Wendi isn’t strong enough to win a conviction OR they lack the confidence to take the chance with the evidence they ‘currently' have. I’m surprised at the amount of times I see people asking the million-dollar question ‘when will Wendi be arrested?’ Without specifically naming anyone, I think there is one particular ‘legal’ pundit that has a very large following that seems to have changed the public’s perception on the strength of the case against Wendi. In my opinion, this ‘pundit’, who has decent credentials on paper, grossly oversimplifies the case against Wendi and has done more to change the public’s perception on the strength of the case than anyone excluding a few random ‘non-legal’ case experts (using the term ‘experts’ loosely
OK answer me this question then. Do you think the States case against WA will be stronger after DA's trial?
Don't forget there are quite a few witnesses listed in CA's trial that never took the stand, other evidence not discussed and since CA's trial more digital evidence has most likely being discovered. LE now have in their possession DA's iphone, HA's iphone X 2, HA's ipad and 2 Macbooks.
Once DA has been convicted, WA will be arrested. Once WA has been convicted, HA will be arrested. The case against WA is a very, very strong circumstantial case. You are wanting this smoking gun. There isn't one. And for most murder trials that end in conviction there also is no smoking gun. Each piece of circumstantial evidence strengthens the next piece of circumstantial evidence. If a suspect is witnessed at the scene of the crime, it may not mean much, that is their usual route to work. But they also had a motive to kill the victim. They were seen leaving the crime scene in a hurry. They burned their clothes. They threw away their phone. They shaved their head etc etc all of these pieces of evidence on their own amount to very little and can be explained away. But add them all together and the case is strong. And also human behaviour is evidence. How they behave in a police interview, how they behave before and after a crime, whether they lie to LE or not etc etc And for WA we are not talking about 3 or 4 coincidences or strange behaviour. We are talking 30+:
strong motive
duplicitous behaviour by hiding assets
mentioning stupid hitman joke multiple times
admitting to JL CA wanted to hire a hitman
being very emotional the week of the murder
dumping JL but wanting to know the specifics of his trip
the renting of an apartment for WA and the boys prior to the murder
WA chatting to guys on dating apps based in Miami not Tallahassee
Strange behaviour with Jl and the boys - watching a movie on a broken TV despite having a perfectly working TV
Ensuring DM was in town on the day of the murder
Booking a TV repair for a $200 TV
Telling TV repair guy hitman joke
Keeping TV repair guy at her house for 50mins despite being told within 5 mins TV could not be repaired
Spending 18 mins on the phone with CA discussing whether TV should be repaired or replaced despite being told it could not be repaired
Crying about the broken TV
Driving past the crime scene
Driving to a liquor store miles away despite being in a rush for lunch
Organising a last minute lunch date
Not dressing for the lunch date
Getting fuel despite being late for lunch. If she was low on fuel and/or late, go straight to lunch, much closer, get liquor and fuel after
Whacky behaviour in police interview
Whacky behaviour in police car - asking if she was a suspect, despite not knowing why she was in the car and not even being told a crime had been committed
Not phoning the daycare when she saw all the emergency vehicles outside DM's house
Throwing CA under the bus in the police interview
Being extremely emotional about DMs death despite despising him. JL reported her hatred of DM increased after his death.
Not wanting to co-operate with LE after her initial interview
Driving down to Miami where the hitman lived, despite supposedly being terrified of them
Not spending a single minute or cent trying to find out who killed her kids father
Changing her kids surname
Refusing the Markels to have contact with her kids
Lying to the police
Lying on the stand multiple times
etc etc etc
And there will be many more pieces of circumstantial evidence that are produced. I believe that there will be digital evidence proving WA contacted Km on the day of the murder. And if there is, she will be dead and buried.
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Going Rogue
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My opinion is based on what’s ‘publicly’ known. ‘IF’ new evidence is found that implicates Wendi when the digital forensics of the IOS devices is concluded, then of course that could change things. In my opinion, with the absence of ‘new’ evidence, the conclusion of Donna's trial does not make the case against Wendi stronger. I have heard people say that, but I don’t understand the basis of that argument? Also, we don’t know what ‘other’ evidence the state has on Wendi, and I fully acknowledge that, but I’d be VERY surprised if they have anything that they feel gets them over the hump or Wendi would not be walking the beaches of Miami.
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Going Rogue
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To respond to part two of your post, very nice comprehensive list and I don’t want to address/ debate line by line, but do want to ask what’s your theory on why the state hasn’t arrested Wendi after more than 9.5 years has passed since Dan’s murder? I bet you’d be surprised at how some of the ‘evidence’ would fall apart or be viewed differently if Wendi was on trial and her legal representation argued her case and the evidence. Remember despite testifying 3 times, she was compelled to testify as a state’s witness and has never been on trial - so although her attorney was present, she essentially had no representation. I say that not in her defense (although some may take it that way), just to point out that if she was on trial, you’d finally hear a good and solid counterarguments to the evidence and other (not heard before) reasons she ‘likely’ was not involved. Obviously, there is plenty of evidence she disliked Dan and benefited from his death, so once we get past motive, a skilled attorney will have little issue with ‘most’ of what is often argued as evidence or indicators of guilt. The most difficult hurdle will be what I mentioned in my original post – the drive to Trescott. I personally don’t understand why people think that the case against Wendi is so strong – that’s not to say I believe she is innocent, I am strictly commenting on the state’s ability to meet the standard of the burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt.
Last, if there was evidence that Wendi contacted Katie on the day of the murder there is NO WAY she would be walking the earth as a free woman.
Objectively discussing here: How did killers know to follow DM from his home to the gym and back home?In my opinion, based on the evidence the state has shared publicly, it will be very difficult to convict Wendi and the state knows the evidence against Wendi isn’t strong enough to win a conviction OR they lack the confidence to take the chance with the evidence they ‘currently' have. I’m surprised at the amount of times I see people asking the million-dollar question ‘when will Wendi be arrested?’ Without specifically naming anyone, I think there is one particular ‘legal’ pundit that has a very large following that seems to have changed the public’s perception on the strength of the case against Wendi. In my opinion, this ‘pundit’, who has decent credentials on paper, grossly oversimplifies the case against Wendi and has done more to change the public’s perception on the strength of the case than anyone excluding a few random ‘non-legal’ case experts (using the term ‘experts’ loosely
(DM could have had other plans and taken the killers on a circuitous route, buying new shoes , gift for his girlfriend, the drycleaners, banking or purchasing toys for the planned swimming later?)
Why did DA say "this TV will cost 5K" and also be inordinately involved ln "that TV" repairs on the morning of the murder, too? The 8am to 12 noon timeline is really curious along with the calls made to family?
Who would have known DM lived alone, had no guests staying at his home, no housekeeper dropping in, no gardener/repairman showing up or co-worker/neighbor dropping by for a project or coffee?
We can argue the minutia of each action not being evidence of anything...it is the compounding of events, stacking one on top of the other that makes me far less gullible to a defense argument, if it ever gets that far.
Also repeating the "cheaper than a hitman" to Geek. etc.
Wow, just read @ Zedzded's amazing post...(click on the pic)
Is there a filed case against WA now? I’ve been on other threads and haven’t kept up.
Going Rogue
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Not sure if you watched Rivera’s proffer? It’s clear that they were tracking his movement on both trips. They didn’t necessary ‘know’ that morning he was traveling from his home to the gym and then back home – or at least there is no evidence to support that. Had Dan gone on a circuitous route they would have followed him on that route. They were simply looking for the right opportunity to execute him. Obviously the ‘TV will cost 5’ was code, there is no debating that, the TV repair was likely an alibi – but the appointment was set up by Donna so was Wendi part of the alibi? RE all the other details, I think you are giving them way too much credit.... Per Rivera they had Dan’s name, a photo, address, type of car he drove and info that he was leaving town Friday evening.
SG and Km were initially tried together with the latter getting a mistrial. I feel that the State now thinks they would have been better off trying them separately and that goes with the rest of the co-conspirators. They don't want another mistrial or a not-guilty verdict for WA. They could try DA, WA and HA all together, but the State may want to do them one by one. With each conviction the case against the next person on trial becomes stronger. Imagine if you're a jury member and it's WA's trial. So far her brother, Mum and Dad have all been found guilty of murdering her ex-husband as well as her brothers girlfriend and her partner plus his buddy. A jury would be convinced of her guilt before hearing any of the opening statements. With almost her whole family in prison (assuming HA gets pinged) it would seem extremely unlikely that she wasn't complicit in DM's murder. Those convictions really provide a backbone for all the little bits of circumstantial evidence.
I still think there is a slim chance WA will be found not guilty, but that would be due to a jury that didn't do its job of connecting the dots. The truth will be plastered all over a board for them to see and they need to look at the totality of the evidence, how each piece links to one another and strengthens each other and join up the dots. If they don't do that she walks.
Re joining the dots, for example we look at her trip to the liquor store. No big deal she drove 20 miles out of her way to buy liquor, driving past 4 other liquor stores selling the same brand whiskey. Sometimes we take circuitous routes because it's a nicer drive or a familiar route. So that strange route could be argued away by an attorney. But she was late when she left her home. And she was low on fuel. If she had left for the restaurant straight from home, she would have been on time and wouldn't have had to get fuel. She could have purchased the liquor and fuel after lunch. Now that does not make sense and the odd behaviour would be considered as evidence of guilt. Throw in to the equation she also happened to drive past the crime scene on her circuitous route to the liquor store that was miles out of the way..... so that looks very suspicious and then she lied about it. 4 times. Innocent people tend not to lie, especially when they are involved in a murder investigation. And WA is a lawyer, she would know how incriminating it is to lie about crucial pieces of information.
That's just one piece of evidence which, in my opinion, is incredibly incriminating. Then you start adding all the other bits.... So she should be found guilty, if not it's the failing of the US legal system that is the reason for that, not the lack of evidence. If the jury joins the dots then she won't see the light of day again.
Yeah I don't think WA necessarily gave them info about DM's movements. She may have done, but they didn't need it. They had his address, simply follow him.
The killers knew they had to act that day (July 18) because DM would be leaving town the next day. Someone had to have told them and it's hard to believe that Charlie, Donna or Katie would know about Dan's comings and goings.
Plus we know that Wendy was at her parents' apartment in South Florida at on the morning of July 6 when she texted Dan to ask whether he would be in Tallahassee from July 14-18.
Just another coincidence for your list.
Knitpicker
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It probably costs the state a lot less money with pads vs visits, and it’s about $ and employees needed etc. It humane but it’s not what prison used to be.
There is a Circle K a bit south of the ABC which typically has gas at one of the cheapest prices in town. If she needed gas, she may have been headed there as well. Again, not trying to defend her, but her shopping habits just aren't that weird.