NC - 12-year-old dies at Trails Carolina wilderness therapy camp, Lake Toxaway, February 2024

[tlcya]

per this video at link at 1:30, sheriff's investigating have logged a SA evidence kit. I am glad they are looking into whether SA of this child took place. Maybe there is some other reason for his clothing on the lower half to have been removed.

Maybe the kit will show zero evidence of SA but I am very happy to know the kit was done.

 

[Izzylizzy]

The last inspection 6/23.
That is incorrect for the current inspection dates. The article was 2021, when a former client filed a complaint 6/21, with the Behavioral Health Licensure Board.

The state visited the facility, unannounced on 6/21/21, interviewed 4 random clients, they found the complaint unfounded. Created action plan to better document when clients request to call parents.

Recent inspections ....

NC DHSR MHLCS: Facilities

The last inspection 6/23.
That is incorrect for the current inspection dates. The article was 2021, when a former client filed a complaint 6/21, with the Behavioral Health Licensure Board.

The state visited the facility, unannounced on 6/21/21, interviewed 4 random clients, they found the complaint unfounded. Created action plan to better document when clients request to call parents.

Recent inspections ....

NC DHSR MHLCS: Facilities

Ty for the updated link.

A whopping 23 page "plan of correction" was put in place.
A POC does not equate to proof that the camp carried them out.

Inspection Type	Document Type	Inspection Date	Pages
MHLCS Annual and Follow-up	Plan of Correction	6/12/2023	23
MHLCS Annual and Follow-up	Statement of Deficiency	6/12/2023	22

 

[RickshawFan]

I got special permission to post this one video with great visuals on bivy sacks. We do not have permission to generalize this creator.

I wanted y'all to see it because IMO it's really hard to visualize a bivy sack being used (which IMO is key in this case). I reckon it will be easier to discuss the dangers if everyone has this info.

 

[huckleberryhound]

I would speculate that taking away a kid's pants could be a way to keep them from trying to run away.

 

[tlcya]

FROM THE LETTER NCDHSR SERVED UPON TRAILS THEY ARE REQUIRED TO:
Permit unlimited and unannounced access by local county DSS staff, law
enforcement and NCDHSR investigators to the cabin(s), campsite(s), staff and
clients
Warrants show clearer timeline, disturbing details after boy found dead at Trails Carolina

Curious what the clients will have to share with authorities.

 

[iamshadow21]

I would speculate that taking away a kid's pants could be a way to keep them from trying to run away.

But they were found next to him, not in another location. Which is more indicative of something like sexual assault, IMO.

They had the alarmed zipper and all of those layers of sleeping bag and bivy to stop him running.

MOO

 

[Cedars]

Let's talk about video game/screen addiction. Do you have experience with it?

Maybe some parents think sending their child to a "wilderness" camp will help.

Screen-addiction is a real and growing problem. There are teens who will try to spend every minute at home using them. They get around the parental control settings pretty easily. They buy, borrow, steal, sneak new devices. They leave school to go use devices at someone's house. They play for hours, acting like a zombie staring at the screen.

And when the parent takes it away, they may become violent.
This is because the shows, games, and websites are designed by professionals to keep giving people dopamine "hits." If a person is prone to this, it's really tough to stay away for long periods of time.

I have not experienced all of this with my kids but enough that often I wish we were a completely screen-free family, so they would actually want to do other hobbies and activities as their first choice and they would stop asking for screens. Nothing else is their first choice if they are allowed screens, and I'm not exaggerating.

I think the dad you mentioned took away his son's devices to try to break a real addiction. Some parents say doing this is very hard for a few days up to a few weeks, but then the kids start actually wanting to do other things and seem much happier. But you have to break the addiction.
All JMO.

I'm not sure what else that dad could have necessarily done except maybe say it wasn't "forever?"

I agree that addictions are life altering. They are a human predicament that many adults in the world struggle with.

However, having control-freak parents, who are unable to connect with their children on a human level, and are too busy to bother raising them, that is even more life-altering.

JMO

 

[huckleberryhound]

But they were found next to him, not in another location. Which is more indicative of something like sexual assault, IMO.

They had the alarmed zipper and all of those layers of sleeping bag and bivy to stop him running.

MOO

They were found next to him when the police arrived, who knows if that is where they were all night.

 

[RickshawFan]

Wouldn't there be evidence on the body of being tied up? No evidence found, stated not a natural cause.

Why would this not be included in the search warrant? Warrant stated unnatural cause, no mention of restraint mark, no choking marks

Why would the Behavior Health Board who send staff immediately, not close the facility, if they "hog-tied" the child? I grew up farming, very familiar with hog-tied, it leaves marks, especially if fighting against the restraint.

BHB 100% have the authority, they don't need a judge or court order. BHB staff were onsite, very quickly per the media release. They still have staff on site and DSS is onsite, per media, even on the weekend.

Would all these agencies be protecting the Camp? Why would state agencies leave mental/behavioral clients in a dangerous facility, that ties up children, in a high profile death case?

I believe this could be an unfortunate accident or possible undiagnosed health conditions.

I believe this is a good camp, part of four, able to share policies, ideas, and better placement to meet the child's needs. They have many highly credential staff, and don't think they would be in business, if they were abusing kids. Must less, the counselors risk loss of license and jail.

Yes, there was ONE complaint (6/21) same time frame, media produced a story) for lack of phone calls to parents and according to state reports, unfounded. Yes, paperwork medication errors, common in all ALS, BH, LTC and group homes, no misuse or incorrect drugs given. All corrected with action plans, and state follow up to ensure compliance.

Moo...

Link to BH

NC DHSR MHLCS: Public Records

The warrant asks for restraints, so it's clear there's concern from LE.

This camp has a history of infractions. We don't know who exactly is on staff, or if the staff they claim to have are on site at all. They also have a history of hiring a lot of minimum wage staff.

I would recommend reading this whole thread from the beginning, since many of these items have already been discussed, with MSM support and the LE warrants. The website representations from the company would be PR, not evidence of any kind or verified, at least at this point IMO.

 

[RickshawFan]

Interesting. A quick search for hog tie images shows something different though, see article below. However, maybe there are other ways to do it?

View attachment 483203

“He Died Like an Animal”: Some Police Departments Hogtie People Despite Knowing The Risks

The U.S. Department of Justice in 1995 warned that people may die when police tie handcuffed wrists to bound ankles.

www.themarshallproject.org

I was thinking hog-tied while on his back, with the wrists by his sides, the knees facing the sky, and the wrists attached to the ankles.

 

[iamshadow21]

I was thinking hog-tied while on his back, with the wrists by his sides, the knees facing the sky, and the wrists attached to the ankles.

If an adult was also sitting or kneeling on his chest while he was in that position, that would definitely do it. That would kill an adult, let alone a twelve year old.

MOO

 

[iamshadow21]

Going to link this, because it's relevant. I highly recommend the full documentary film, but it's hard, hard content, so take care of yourself if you do choose to watch.

Stop Hurting Kids | End Restraint And Seclusion

Stop Hurting Kids believes all children should grow up free from the use of restraint, seclusion, and aversive interventions to respond to or control their behavior, and from the fear that these forms of behavior management will be used on themselves, their siblings or their friends.

www.stophurtingkids.com

There are links on the site to plenty of scientific articles and papers on the topic as well.

 

[ch_13]

There is no reason not to believe the camp.

RSBM.

According to the camp, they checked on the boy at 6 AM but then found him dead at 7:45 AM, his body cold and stiff. That is very suspect. He was likely dead for several hours at least.

That alone is reason to distrust the camp's version of events.

 

[Cartie]

Two boy grandson, they would run around in underwear or naked, if allowed. They never sleep in the nice pj's they have, nope boxers or commando.

I wonder if he got hot, during or after the panic attack and removed?
Maybe, he sleeps commando.

It is odd, counselors can offer no explanation. I would think if there was any type of nefarious plot to cover up a crime, they would have dressed the child. They had to realize this would be a red flag and create many questions.

Moo...

Would they do that away from home in the company of stranger's (who they probably have no trust in)

 

[Simply Southern]

Ty for the updated link.

A whopping 23 page "plan of correction" was put in place.
A POC does not equate to proof that the camp carried them out.

Inspection Type	Document Type	Inspection Date	Pages
MHLCS Annual and Follow-up	Plan of Correction	6/12/2023	23
MHLCS Annual and Follow-up	Statement of Deficiency	6/12/2023	22

Most of the pages are sighting the NC State code, which takes up most of the pages. If you open and read, the action plan is to the far right.

 

[RickshawFan]

Imagine being in a bivy if you're terrified of the dark. It's pitch black in one of those things.

This is a speculative scenario for how something could happen if there was no restraint aside from the bivy bag and the sleeping bag.

Supposing the bivy bag was narrow, and you were zipped into one. Then you began to flail around. You could actually get your knees wedged into the bag. If you weren't alert enough to un-wedge them, you could get trapped on your back.

We also don't know how tall the child was relative to the sleeping bag. You can get caught in the bottom of the sleeping bag (I almost suffocated like this one night in the Sierras; it got me into a nightmare that I was getting attacked by a bear and screamed; someone in a nearby tent called out to ask if I was okay, and it woke me up; saved my life). We don't know if the child's head or hands were within reach of the zipper head or the opening of the bag.

This reminds me..... SAFETY WARNING

Parents or anyone around children. If their sleeping bag is much longer than they are ('cos maybe they're growing fast, and you don't want them to soon grow out of an expensive sleeping bag), tie off some of the foot area, so they can't slide down in there. Yep, get a piece of paracord or webbing or something and tie it off. As they get older, simply tie less and less off until a tie isn't needed any more. The child's head should be up at the opening. They should be able to point their feet in the sleeping bag, but no more length than that.
Also, a too long sleeping bag will sleep very cold. So, yep, tie it off.

 

[RickshawFan]

If an adult was also sitting or kneeling on his chest while he was in that position, that would definitely do it. That would kill an adult, let alone a twelve year old.

MOO

I think maybe even the position itself for any length of time could result in death, but I'm not a medical professional. On your back, with your wrists tied to your ankles, knees to sky. No ability to turn over. No ability to get fabric off your face. Anyone?

 

[Simply Southern]

The warrant asks for restraints, so it's clear there's concern from LE.

This camp has a history of infractions. We don't know who exactly is on staff, or if the staff they claim to have are on site at all. They also have a history of hiring a lot of minimum wage staff.

I would recommend reading this whole thread from the beginning, since many of these items have already been discussed, with MSM support and the LE warrants. The website representations from the company would be PR, not evidence of any kind or verified, at least at this point IMO.

I have read the entire WS site, the NC regulations and all of the BH reports. I've read and I understand them. I've ask for your help in confirming information you stated.

There have been no accusations by law enforcement, BH or DSS that this child was tied up, restrained, held down or choked, no, not in the search warrant or any statements I can find made by LE.

Most of the conjecture on here is based on an article in 2021 from a very unhappy camper, who did report unable to make phone calls to the Dept of Behavioral Health and investigated and was unfounded. I did not find a complaint for the person who was denied bathroom problems on a wilderness camp. It's in the link I posted, on BHH letter head. I've emailed the original author, as to claims to a Senate hearing. I've searched the Senate site and see no hearing and I did check numerous subcommittees, and could have missed it. He is yet, to respond.

I worked in this field for many years in VA and NC. I believe in looking at, reading actual government documents, the NC Code, rather than a reporter that quotes from unnamed sources, makes accusations without any actual state documents to back up his report, that was written on 2021.

MOO..

 

[Simply Southern]

RSBM.

According to the camp, they checked on the boy at 6 AM but then found him dead at 7:45 AM, his body cold and stiff. That is very suspect. He was likely dead for several hours at least.

That alone is reason to distrust the camp's version of events.

I agree, the time of death was earlier. Moo, the counselor, peek in the bivy, as not to wake him, thought the child was sleeping. The death was discovered when they awoke the kids that morning.

It's not the "camps version" but an actual statement from the counselor interviewed and is in the search warrant. Who discover the him around 7:30 ish.

Moo

 

[Simply Southern]

Would they do that away from home in the company of stranger's (who they probably have no trust in)

My grandboys sleep in really thin boxers at camp, so they say. But with no air conditioning, only a ceiling fan and 90+ degree nights, I would not be surprised if they did sleep commando at camp. They all shower together in groups of 6, butt naked.
They trust their counselors, and stay in touch with many of them.
Moo...