NC - 12-year-old dies at Trails Carolina wilderness therapy camp, Lake Toxaway, February 2024

[Izzylizzy]

funny you say that I had just edited my post to include that possibility

My dad went into a nursing home for a 1-2 week stay to use their physical re-hab wing for strengthening his legs.
He was 84 and wasn't on any prescribed medications.
On his 2nd night there he was given "Haldol",when I visited him the next morning he was asleep and they told me he was "agitated" and the nursing home doctor prescribed it..She never even met him ,no less knew anything about him.
Giving Hadol was their go-to policy.

I woke him up and had brought in a delish breakfast from home for him.
As he was eating he aspirated ( unbeknownst to me) and soon after stopped breathing.
I screamed or the nurse, they threw me out of the room and I called 911 and got him as he lay unconscious across the street to the hospital.
He never regained consciousness ( except for a midnight squeeze of my hand) as I lay next to him on a cot) and passed away the next morning about 10:30 am.

 

[RickshawFan]

"At low concentrations, gaseous carbon dioxide appears to have little toxicological effect.

At higher concentrations it leads to an increased respiratory rate, tachycardia, cardiac arrhythmias and impaired consciousness. Concentrations >10% may cause convulsions, coma and death."

Carbon dioxide poisoning - PubMed

Carbon dioxide is a physiologically important gas, produced by the body as a result of cellular metabolism. It is widely used in the food industry in the carbonation of beverages, in fire extinguishers as an 'inerting' agent and in the chemical industry. Its main mode of action is as an...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"Symptoms of mild CO2 exposure may include headache and drowsiness. At higher levels,rapid breathing, confusion, increased cardiac output, elevated blood pressure and increased arrhythmias may occur.
Breathing oxygen depleted air caused by extreme CO2 concentrations can lead to death by suffocation."

I definitely think you could suffocate if you were stuffed in a sleeping bag and a bivy. Or have too little fresh air.

Apologies, ^^^^ I confused this with CO poisoning. @Dotta is pointing me to too much CO2 and not enough O.

 

[Lilibet]

My dad went into a nursing home for a 1-2 week stay to use their physical re-hab wing for strengthening his legs.
He was 84 and wasn't on any prescribed medications.
On his 2nd night there he was given "Haldol",when I visited him the next morning he was asleep and they told me he was "agitated" and the nursing home doctor prescribed it..She never even met him ,no less knew anything about him.
Giving Hadol was their go-to policy.

I woke him up and had brought in a delish breakfast from home for him.
As he was eating he aspirated ( unbeknownst to me) and soon after stopped breathing.
I screamed or the nurse, they threw me out of the room and I called 911 and got him as he lay unconscious across the street to the hospital.
He never regained consciousness ( except for a midnight squeeze of my hand) as I lay next to him on a cot) and passed away the next morning about 10:30 am.

Oh @Izzylizzy! I’m so sorry. What a preventable tragedy.

 

[RickshawFan]

Whadda y'all think about the idea that the staff might have replaced the child's sleeping bag before emergency personnel arrived? The odds are it was soiled. So, how about if they inserted him into a different one? Putting him in pants wouldn't have worked because of rigor mortis, and the child's legs were bent, but I'm thinking you could thread him into a clean sleeping bag. They could have cut soiled pants off, too, and simply put clean ones next to his head.

I hope LE searched that cabin thoroughly, including the trash, and trash bins on campus.

 

[Izzylizzy]

I'm tossing over in my mind that those might not have been his.... What if someone put them there after the fact?

Anythings possible and I would think by now it's been figured out if they belonged to the boy or not.
What's got me thinking is that there were 3-4(?) other boys in the structure with him so did whatever take place that caused his death happen without waking them?
We don't know yet what they said.

 

[RickshawFan]

My dad went into a nursing home for a 1-2 week stay to use their physical re-hab wing for strengthening his legs.
He was 84 and wasn't on any prescribed medications.
On his 2nd night there he was given "Haldol",when I visited him the next morning he was asleep and they told me he was "agitated" and the nursing home doctor prescribed it..She never even met him ,no less knew anything about him.
Giving Hadol was their go-to policy.

I woke him up and had brought in a delish breakfast from home for him.
As he was eating he aspirated ( unbeknownst to me) and soon after stopped breathing.
I screamed or the nurse, they threw me out of the room and I called 911 and got him as he lay unconscious across the street to the hospital.
He never regained consciousness ( except for a midnight squeeze of my hand) as I lay next to him on a cot) and passed away the next morning about 10:30 am.

I am so sorry. What a terrible way to lose a loved one.

 

[acutename]

Imagine being in a bivy if you're terrified of the dark. It's pitch black in one of those things.

This is a speculative scenario for how something could happen if there was no restraint aside from the bivy bag and the sleeping bag.

Supposing the bivy bag was narrow, and you were zipped into one. Then you began to flail around. You could actually get your knees wedged into the bag. If you weren't alert enough to un-wedge them, you could get trapped on your back.

We also don't know how tall the child was relative to the sleeping bag. You can get caught in the bottom of the sleeping bag (I almost suffocated like this one night in the Sierras; it got me into a nightmare that I was getting attacked by a bear and screamed; someone in a nearby tent called out to ask if I was okay, and it woke me up; saved my life). We don't know if the child's head or hands were within reach of the zipper head or the opening of the bag.

This reminds me..... SAFETY WARNING

Parents or anyone around children. If their sleeping bag is much longer than they are ('cos maybe they're growing fast, and you don't want them to soon grow out of an expensive sleeping bag), tie off some of the foot area, so they can't slide down in there. Yep, get a piece of paracord or webbing or something and tie it off. As they get older, simply tie less and less off until a tie isn't needed any more. The child's head should be up at the opening. They should be able to point their feet in the sleeping bag, but no more length than that.
Also, a too long sleeping bag will sleep very cold. So, yep, tie it off.

So much we do not know about this boy- had he ever been in a sleeping bag or camping before? On a cool night, a sleeping bag and bivy are cozy but if you have only ever slept in a bed in a building, this would be a very weird disorienting thing. And: what was the temp that night in NC? Was the boy very thin or on or off meds?
Trying to figure out if he was cold....maybe even detoxing from something... or needing a dose of Rx meds?

 

[RickshawFan]

So much we do not know about this boy- had he ever been in a sleeping bag or camping before? On a cool night, a sleeping bag and bivy are cozy but if you have only ever slept in a bed in a building, this would be a very weird disorienting thing. And: what was the temp that night in NC? Was the boy very thin or on or off meds?
Trying to figure out if he was cold....maybe even detoxing from something... or needing a dose of Rx meds?

The combination of bivy and sleeping bag would be waaaaay too hot inside a cabin, which Carolina Trails claim was heated. If that's a cheap technical bivy, it would retain heat. No oxygen is getting in there, either. Bivvies are for OUTSIDE use.

And, for gosh sake, why didn't he get to sleep on a bed like a normal human being?

 

[Izzylizzy]

Oh @Izzylizzy! I’m so sorry. What a preventable tragedy.

It threw me into almost a year of deep grieving/guilt and what brought me out of it is when I could finally go through his clothes.
I had read in the paper that our local "Drop In Center" needed winter clothes for our homeless residents.
So I packed up a few boxes and brought them there and from speaking with the woman who was the director became a volunteer.
That led to when one of the local churches opened the towns first overnight shelter and I volunteered there .
I had to get out of myself and was grateful for the opportunity.
I still tear up remembering,.

 

[514Caledonia]

This participant interview is what got my speculation going about the reason the child's pants were removed. I'm speculating they anticipated he would soil himself. That was the reason for the plastic sheet under him, too. I mean, why do you need a plastic sheet on the floor of a cabin? Having one on a bed is one thing, or out in the woods, but on a wooden cabin floor? I imagine it had to do with body fluids.

Are we clear if the pants and underpants were near his head, staff had to have removed them, correct? His arms must have been in the "bivy bag".

Sick and evil. May they serve eternity in hell if they do not fully repent.

 

[Dotta]

I definitely think you could suffocate if you were stuffed in a sleeping bag and a bivy. Or have too little fresh air.

Apologies, ^^^^ I confused this with CO poisoning. @Dotta is pointing me to too much CO2 and not enough O.

I have already pointed to it in earlier post.

Zipped bag does not have enough ventilation IMO.

As we breathe, we produce CO2.

It can be lethal if air lacks right amount of oxygen.

I would suffocate trapped in this horrible zipped bag covering my face.

Geez!!!!

Fresh air and big spaces please!!!!

 

[Marysmith]

My dad went into a nursing home for a 1-2 week stay to use their physical re-hab wing for strengthening his legs.
He was 84 and wasn't on any prescribed medications.
On his 2nd night there he was given "Haldol",when I visited him the next morning he was asleep and they told me he was "agitated" and the nursing home doctor prescribed it..She never even met him ,no less knew anything about him.
Giving Hadol was their go-to policy.

I woke him up and had brought in a delish breakfast from home for him.
As he was eating he aspirated ( unbeknownst to me) and soon after stopped breathing.
I screamed or the nurse, they threw me out of the room and I called 911 and got him as he lay unconscious across the street to the hospital.
He never regained consciousness ( except for a midnight squeeze of my hand) as I lay next to him on a cot) and passed away the next morning about 10:30 am.

I’m so sorry! That’s so awful.

 

[mickey2942]

Report says they just watched.

That scenario is interesting, not unlike the scenario with Derek Chauvin and George Foreman. I wonder if one person, so called "supervisor" wouldn't do anything, so no one else did anything either.

It is surprising, because there are supposed to be protocols for specific circumstances, and the expected staff response. It would be interesting to see their handbook for accreditation, and what it says about medical emergency responses. And what really occurred.

 

[Izzylizzy]

I definitely think you could suffocate if you were stuffed in a sleeping bag and a bivy. Or have too little fresh air.

Apologies, ^^^^ I confused this with CO poisoning. @Dotta is pointing me to too much CO2 and not enough O.

Thanks for the video.
I learned a lot about bivys.

 

[ch_13]

"Trails has conducted an internal investigation of this incident, and the Trails facility has been investigated by outside professionals who are subject-matter experts. Both investigations have concluded that there is no evidence that Trails failed to properly supervise, no evidence that Trails caused harm, and no evidence that conditions at Trails were unsafe or unhealthy," said Trails. "Speculation of any kind is inappropriate and disrespectful the family."

Staff Watched Boy, 12, Suffer Panic Attacks Before Death at Camp: Cops

Counselors "stood along the wall" and witnessed the boy having a panic attack while sleeping on the floor but "did not mention if [any] counselors attempted to assist CJH with any easement during his anxiety attack," says the warrant.

www.insideedition.com

"

Going back to this ridiculous statement for a sec, it occurred to me that it doesn't feel like something an attorney would write. I would think any competent lawyer would tell the company to just put out a message of sympathy and say that you are cooperating with the authorities .

Instead, claiming claim you did a flash investigation and discovered no wrongdoing when you couldn't even know what happened to the boy reads like something a businessperson would come up with in a panic.

Even if Trails avoids criminal liability somehow, there will almost certainly be a civil lawsuit. And I predict that this statement will be used by the plaintiff as evidence of just how callous and uncaring the company was.

 

[Izzylizzy]

I’m so sorry! That’s so awful.

Thank you.
My dad was one of thousands who die unnecessarily each year in nursing homes.
Another $$$$ industry that needs a complete overhaul that will never happen.

 

[RickshawFan]

I have already pointed to it in earlier post.

Zipped bag does not have enough ventilation IMO.

As we breathe, we produce CO2.

It can be lethal if air lacks right amount of oxygen.

I would suffocate trapped in this horrible zipped bag covering my face.

Geez!!!!

Fresh air and big spaces please!!!!

As I mentioned upthread, I almost suffocated in a sleeping bag by getting stuck in the foot while sleeping. Someone in a nearby tent woke me up. Add a waterproof bivy (no air coming in), and this could get very dangerous.

 

[mickey2942]

The combination of bivy and sleeping bag would be waaaaay too hot inside a cabin, which Carolina Trails claim was heated. If that's a cheap technical bivy, it would retain heat. No oxygen is getting in there, either. Bivvies are for OUTSIDE use.

And, for gosh sake, why didn't he get to sleep on a bed like a normal human being?

Because dysfunctional programs make the clients "earn" everything with good behavior. And take away things based on bad behavior. And what constitutes "bad behavior" vs. "Good behavior", can be completely arbitrary based on the staff working that day.

I knew of one client, who had only a t-shirt and shorts for two weeks. She couldn't "earn" a sweatshirt and jeans. She believes it was really just a cruel game, because she was an attractive female. Which, of course, she left the "treatment". Who wouldn't?! So much for helping people succeed.

 

[Stunned]

Going back to this ridiculous statement for a sec, it occurred to me that it doesn't feel like something an attorney would write. I would think any competent lawyer would tell the company to just put out a message of sympathy and say that you are cooperating with the authorities .

Instead, claiming claim you did a flash investigation and discovered no wrongdoing when you couldn't even know what happened to the boy reads like something a businessperson would come up with in a panic.

Even if Trails avoids criminal liability somehow, there will almost certainly be a civil lawsuit. And I predict that this statement will be used by the plaintiff as evidence of just how callous and uncaring the company was.

They ARE business people first and foremost. IMO

 

[ChatteringBirds]

Depriving them of everything they might find nurturing and torturing them with nature....

Parents aren't thinking their child is going to be tortured, though.

Nature, if done right, can be healing. Treatment for depression can include exercise and time spent in nature.

I think the parents are expecting their child will be in a structured and ultimately positive environment, learning to work with others and enjoy nature. They are thinking it will benefit the child's anxiety, depression, etc. to "get away" and be in a new environment, away from any current negative influences and in a beautiful landscape.

They are imagining a summer camp but with more rules, structure, and therapy.

No way they thought their child would be half undressed, in a restraint in a floor, being ignored while panicking and distressed, allegedly. (If that is what happened.)
JMO.