Australia Samantha Murphy, 51, last seen leaving her property to go for a run in the Canadian State Forest, Ballarat 100km NW of Melbourne, 4 Feb 2024 #7

[Voluspa]

I only wonder why,
as the "bender" finished at 3 a.m.,
the alleged perp was driving home so late - at 7/8 a.m.?

The club closed at 3 am, we have no idea what the accused did between the hours of 3 am - 8 am. His "bender" may have continued. IMO.

Edit to add - I recall reading PS went to collect his car at 6 am, can anyone confirm?

 

[bearbear]

i think it was mentioned he went to a dinner birthday party and left his car there, presumably getting a taxi/uber to go out to clubs etc, so possibly he ubered home after and may have walked through the track to pick up his car?

 

[Whatson]

I found it interesting when MM was interviewed some time after the murder charge was laid and he said something like "We are hoping the accused has a change of heart" in reference to revealing SMs remains location.

1. He seems like a very compassionate man in the way he spoke of the accused.

2. It kind of indicated that he most likely had been informed on how SM met her demise.

 

[ProfCluezo]

I only wonder why…

If he had to return to get the car,
why to take car at all?

Your theory is certainly compelling Toowong(s). However, like Dotta, I am struggling to understand why, in your hypothesised theory, the accused needed to collect his car? If he was coming down from a bender why not crash and sleep? Presumably he had nowhere to be on Sunday, as otherwise he wouldn’t have gone on a bender the night before? Further, he clearly had no other commitments, otherwise he wouldn’t have had the time to be “as busy as an ant” on Sunday (to quote an earlier websleuth)…. How else would he have had the rest of Sunday free to clean up after himself and dispose of the body?

I can understand the accused temporarily (hypothetically) panicking if he hit SM accidentally. However going as far as deciding not to call for help and instead to brutally murder her and dispose of her body and conceal the alleged crime is another level entirely…. ??!!

Even if we assume your hypothesised theory is correct, to me it still sounds like there were some pretty untoward preexisting character traits leading him towards these actions… JMO…

It is not enough to be busy. So are the ants. The question is: What are we busy about? – Henry David Thoreau​

 

[HoneyBunOne]

The club closed at 3 am, we have no idea what the accused did between the hours of 3 am - 8 am. His "bender" may have continued. IMO.

Edit to add - I recall reading PS went to collect his car at 6 am, can anyone confirm?

I believe it was a claim from Dr Samoht that allegedly had local knowledge of this. I don't believe it was ever reported, correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[fawlty towers]

I only wonder why,
as the "bender" finished at 3 a.m.,
the alleged perp was driving home so late - at 7/8 a.m.?

If he had to return to get the car,
why to take car at all?

How does anyone know "the bender finished at 3am", we were not with the accused. He may have returned to where it all started and his ute was there. And then drove. Noone knows.

 

[Dotta]

Great theory Toowong(S), but I also don’t understand why, in your hypothesised theory, the accused needed to collect his car? If he was coming down from a bender why not crash and sleep? Presumably he had nowhere to be on Sunday as otherwise he wouldn’t have gone on a bender the night before, and also wouldn’t have had the time to be “as busy as an ant” on Sunday (to quote an earlier websleuth), presumably cleaning up after himself and disposing of the body?

I can understand the accused temporarily (hypothetically) panicking if he hit SM accidentally, but going as far as deciding not to call for help and instead go brutally murder her and dispose of her body and conceal the alleged crime is another level entirely…. ??!!

The "ant" was mine

 

[Kemug]

I think there are at least several ways they could know this. We just don't know which way they found out in this instance.

Eg:
- the police have someone who believably informed on the accused
- they have covert recordings of the accused muttering to himself about the murder
- they discovered evidence of Sam's integral-to-life body matter somewhere

imo

I'm not so sure that an informant brings an absolute certainty of murder having been committed - it is possible that an informant could have an axe to grind, surely? Or be mistaken? Likewise an admission by a murderer could just possibly be boasting. I think that for such instant and absolute certainty as LE obviously had/have, there has to be footage of the murder, of some sort, and most likely visual.

 

[SouthAussie]

I can understand the accused temporarily (hypothetically) panicking if he hit SM accidentally. However going as far as deciding not to call for help and instead go brutally murder her and dispose of her body and conceal the alleged crime is another level entirely…. ??!!

My problem with the accidental hit, let die/kill, then dump theory (hence creating a possible murder charge) is that how would the police know that Sam survived a hit by a vehicle, and then later died/was killed.

Why would they not think that Sam was instantly killed, then dumped. (presumed charge of culpable driving, and maybe whatever other charge they could throw in for dumping Sam).

 

[fawlty towers]

My problem with the accidental hit, let die/kill, then dump theory (hence creating a possible murder charge) is that how would the police know that Sam survived a hit by a vehicle, and then later died/was killed.

Why would they not think that Sam was instantly killed, then dumped. (presumed charge of culpable driving, and maybe whatever other charge they could throw in for dumping Sam).

Maybe SA, ( I have no knowledge of fitness watch's or phone data), perhaps after the had everyting from the tower dump,they found said data that records everything when Sam was running. Fluctuations, accelerations or ending of heartbeat. If Sam's watch was connected to Mick's, that could be why he was so alarmed. JMO

 

[Warshawski]

I've been pondering the possibility of the alleged perpetrator either following/chasing Samantha on foot,
OR
the alleged perpetrator playing "chicken" with her whilst riding a track bike.

If this were occurring, Samantha MAY HAVE quickly videoed and "audio'd" this via her iPhone, then sending it to one of her contacts (likely husband Mick IMO). Even a snippet would result in immediate action being taken by the receiver, and a few seconds of such an event may have been sufficient to provide strong clues to the assailant's identity, and possibly more.

I wondered back a bit how quickly she might be able to get something ‘off’ from her watch ( I say ‘watch’ because I think that would’ve been easier to access, perhaps secretly)
I do tend to think that there may’ve been something more alarming for MM that morning, other than her just being late home, as he went to the police pretty quickly.

Of course, he may be friends with someone in the local force & reached out, and that may perhaps have sped everything up.

Jmo

 

[SouthAussie]

Maybe SA, ( I have no knowledge of fitness watch's or phone data), perhaps after the had everyting from the tower dump,they found said data that records everything when Sam was running. Fluctuations, accelerations or ending of heartbeat. If Sam's watch was connected to Mick's, that could be why he was so alarmed. JMO

Then I could see a scenario of ".... but she died when I got her in the car to take her to the hospital. I didn't let her die, or murder her. Then I got scared and dumped her." (If the accused ever spoke of the alleged crime.)

How would the police know that wasn't what he did?

I personally think that is too wishy-washy for a murder charge for allegedly deliberately killing Sam.

imo

ETA: Of course, unless Sam died later in the day. And the police know that from her watch readings. So he could potentially have got some help for her while she was alive.

 

[Toowong(s)]

I only wonder why,
as the "bender" finished at 3 a.m.,
the alleged perp was driving home so late - at 7/8 a.m.?

If he had to return to get the car,
why to take car at all?

Hi Dotta, I hear you but think it would be quite normal to start a bender off at a mates house - everyone drives there, has a few beers, maybe rack up a few “lines” in the privacy of a private home. Put on a few dance tunes to fire everyone up. We’d call it warm ups back in the day. Then head out on the town, hit a few different bars and clubs and when the last club closes (3am?) everyone goes back to the original mates house and kicks on. Maybe order some pizzas, and keep partying hard.

It was pretty standard in my days of partying for the “stayers” to aim to party until dawn. Particularly if drugs were on the scene. Sit around drinking, talking, clowning around and listening to music, maybe a fire pit in the back yard, or jump in a jacuzzi if the house has one. Then people drop off one by one and either go home to the comfort of their own beds, or crash on a couch or a spare bed in the party house.

Eventually though everyone craves sleep and their own bed. It’s pretty common unfortunately in rural & regional Australia to get behind the wheel and drive home at this point. There is no public transport and taxis/ubers are in short supply, sometimes impossible to get. People take back streets and alleys to avoid police. A trail through the forest… Also a tradie with all his expensive tools in the back likes to have his Ute/truck nearby. Tool theft from their vehicles is actually a huge issue around Melbourne (and I image everywhere), and hard to insure for.

Anyway, I acknowledge my theory won’t be for everyone but putting it out there for what it’s worth, and keen to hear everyone else’s!?

 

[Dr Samoht]

I only wonder why,
as the "bender" finished at 3 a.m.,
the alleged perp was driving home so late - at 7/8 a.m.?

If he had to return to get the car,
why to take car at all?

Could it be that the night started on a low key social outing involving an older demographic and after a skinful decided on the night club scene with other mates , prudently leaving his car at the first address … had the big night out till the wee hours then returned to his parked car some hours later ( possibly napped at a mates close by then made his way to his Ute )
OMO.

 

[Dr Samoht]

Tha

The club closed at 3 am, we have no idea what the accused did between the hours of 3 am - 8 am. His "bender" may have continued. IMO.

Edit to add - I recall reading PS went to collect his car at 6 am, can anyone confirm

That’s the local understanding .

 

[Poirot's niece]

Your theory is certainly compelling Toowong(s). However, like Dotta, I am struggling to understand why, in your hypothesised theory, the accused needed to collect his car? If he was coming down from a bender why not crash and sleep? Presumably he had nowhere to be on Sunday, as otherwise he wouldn’t have gone on a bender the night before? Further, he clearly had no other commitments, otherwise he wouldn’t have had the time to be “as busy as an ant” on Sunday (to quote an earlier websleuth)…. How else would he have had the rest of Sunday free to clean up after himself and dispose of the body?

I can understand the accused temporarily (hypothetically) panicking if he hit SM accidentally. However going as far as deciding not to call for help and instead to brutally murder her and dispose of her body and conceal the alleged crime is another level entirely…. ??!!

Even if we assume your hypothesised theory is correct, to me it still sounds like there were some pretty untoward preexisting character traits leading him towards these actions… JMO…

It is not enough to be busy. So are the ants. The question is: What are we busy about? – Henry David Thoreau​

Have you ever seen a young, very fit person absolutely off their chops on coke, speed, meth etc etc There is rarely any need to crash and sleep, some people keep pinging around like a multiball pinball for days. Most take some kind of downer to medically induce sleep as they're so amped up its almost impossible. I've seen it, it ain't pretty. Ask any Nurse, medic, Dr, Ambo, Paramedic about what fit, strong, healthy people are like when they've had too much nasty gear and that might clarify some assumptions. He may not have even started 'coming down', he might've upped the ante and got more. Plus there may not have been any real official need for someone to collect their car after or during a bender but they may have been unable to sit still. Stimulants can compel agitated relentless movement. They may have parked somewhere that their car would've copped a lot of bird *advertiser censored*, or a parking fine, or annoyance from someone about where his car was parked-people can be picky about non resident cars taking up space in their street.
I have no verifiable knowledge about the accused's personality or any hypothetical latent tendencies. However I have seen over the years people with no criminal history or antisocial issues suddenly become the perpetrator of a hit and run. Many are intoxicated, some aren't. It doesn't seem that wild a leap to me. Its heinous and unfathomable but not uncommon. Possibly leaving a crime with the injured or deceased individual isn't common. Recently there was the Mother/Son (iirc) near Darwin hit and kill a woman and attempt to conceal her body.
To panic and behave irrationally and inhumanely is not a new trend. And, I doubt what someone may or may not have had planned for a sunny, hot summer's Sunday would've factored much if that morning started the way described.

 

[Toowong(s)]

I concur with your theory. I feel all those theorising about stalking and a preplanned attack are thinking too far into left field. I feel the reason that LE are calling it a"deliberate" act is the fact that he decided not to call for help when he knew this would lead to Samantha's death and then covered it up.

I also wonder if this is what happened, and/or perhaps the “deliberate act” is driving under influence and hence deliberately acting without care for others safety. It could be the case I think when all is said and done.

But in arriving at my theory I’m taking guidance from Trooper who’s sage comments I really value, that for the allegations as they’ve been laid out, simply allowing SM to pass after an accident would not be sufficient for a murder charge.

 

[ProfCluezo]

Have you ever seen a young, very fit person absolutely off their chops on coke, speed, meth etc etc There is rarely any need to crash and sleep, some people keep pinging around like a multiball pinball for days. Most take some kind of downer to medically induce sleep as they're so amped up its almost impossible. I've seen it, it ain't pretty. Ask any Nurse, medic, Dr, Ambo, Paramedic about what fit, strong, healthy people are like when they've had too much nasty gear and that might clarify some assumptions. He may not have even started 'coming down', he might've upped the ante and got more. Plus there may not have been any real official need for someone to collect their car after or during a bender but they may have been unable to sit still. Stimulants can compel agitated relentless movement. They may have parked somewhere that their car would've copped a lot of bird *advertiser censored*, or a parking fine, or annoyance from someone about where his car was parked-people can be picky about non resident cars taking up space in their street.
I have no verifiable knowledge about the accused's personality or any hypothetical latent tendencies. However I have seen over the years people with no criminal history or antisocial issues suddenly become the perpetrator of a hit and run. Many are intoxicated, some aren't. It doesn't seem that wild a leap to me. Its heinous and unfathomable but not uncommon. Possibly leaving a crime with the injured or deceased individual isn't common. Recently there was the Mother/Son (iirc) near Darwin hit and kill a woman and attempt to conceal her body.
To panic and behave irrationally and inhumanely is not a new trend. And, I doubt what someone may or may not have had planned for a sunny, hot summer's Sunday would've factored much if that morning started the way described.

Wow, ok!! These are very helpful insights, thank you Poirot’s niece!! I do not move in these kinds of circles, and (thankfully) have no direct experience with young fit people “off their chops” as you describe, on coke, speed, meth etc. …. Your words are leading me to wonder if I am some kind of sheltered prehistoric fossil??!! In all seriousness though, I greatly appreciate you sharing your very sobering experience and perspectives… :O

 

[Dr Samoht]

N

I believe it was a claim from Dr Samoht that allegedly had local knowledge of this. I don't believe it was ever reported, correct me if I'm wrong.

Nothing reported in MSM… correct

 

[Whatson]

Could it be that the night started on a low key social outing involving an older demographic and after a skinful decided on the night club scene with other mates , prudently leaving his car at the first address … had the big night out till the wee hours then returned to his parked car some hours later ( possibly napped at a mates close by then made his way to his Ute )
OMO.

Wasn't the house party where the car was left for an 80 year old? That's what I remember reading somewhere.