Missouri, St. Louis - Teenage girl critically injured after brutal fight with another female teen near Hazelwood East High School, 8 March 2024

[SteveP]

I am appalled at the amount of people on social media blaming the victim and standing up for the accused - not just on social media. Literally protesting that the accused be released. Strange.

Regardless of what prefaced the beating, and regardless of who may be more or less to blame, which none of us knows, end result is that one of the two walked away, basically unscathed, while the other apparently is still in a coma, 12 days after the attack, critically wounded, with severe brain injuries, after having her head pounded into concrete, more than once. Nothing justifies that. I cannot begin to fathom why anyone would protest for release of the attacker. JMO

 

[kaen]

Regardless of what prefaced the beating, and regardless of who may be more or less to blame, which none of us knows, end result is that one of the two walked away, basically unscathed, while the other apparently is still in a coma, 12 days after the attack, critically wounded, with severe brain injuries, after having her head pounded into concrete, more than once. I cannot begin to fathom why anyone would protest for release of the attacker. JMO

I agree. And it is important to know the details of what led up to this beating. There have been non-verified social media reports that set the whole "how did this happen" question on its ear. I work in a school in a high poverty, high violence, high gang member population area. I know better than to take the initial story as THE story because it is often way more complex that we anticipate. Not victim blaming but certainly am advocating to hear the bigger picture.

No one deserves to have the kind of injuries that we are seeing with a distinct possibility of long term or fatal damage. My heart goes out to this young woman and her family.

 

[Cryptic]

Easy target then?
Poor kid didn't stand a chance

moo

Sadly, yes. I fully agree

In no way would I want to critique the poor victim's response. Rather, just to illustrate that this was not a fight between a larger, stronger girl and say "K", my daughter's high school friend who is also smaller- but also went to State in girls wrestling.

Or between an aggressor and my niece "N" who light on her feet and physically, the strongest girl on her small college basket ball team. Likewise, its not a fight between an aggressor and "D" an at risk youth my family supported in the past who played several sports, got in fights and could go from normal to explosive very quickly if grabbed.

Heck, even the athletic or naturally "scrappy" would of had trouble compensating for that level of aggression.

Again, I dont mean to critique the victim's response. Rather, I just want to emphasize that the footage does not suggest in any way that this was a fight between two naturally aggressive people with one being smaller, but still being strong and having alot of natural or developed physical gifts.

In short, and as you stated, the poor victim never stood a chance. Its awful to watch.

 

[Lyanna]

Sadly, yes. The video is horrible.

In no way would I want to critique the poor victim's response. Rather, just to illustrate that this was not a fight between a larger, stronger girl and say "K", my daughter's high school friend who is also smaller- but went to State in girls wrestling.

Heck, even the athletic or naturally "scrappy" would of had trouble compensating for that level of aggression.

Again, I dont mean to critique the victim's response. Rather, I just was not emphasize that the footage does not suggest in any way that this was a fight between to naturally aggressive people with one being smaller, but still being strong and having natural or developed physical gifts.

Never really a "fair" fight is there, not that this was a fight moo
Didn't mean to imply you were critiquing the victim - I'm sorry if you thought I was. Was translating it for my understanding iykwim?

Kaylee looked blindsided in the video, no expectation of that horrific attack, at all.

Attacker shouldn't be allowed on the streets again, imagine what she would be capable of a few years down the line? (Possibly an unpopular opinion there)

moo

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I agree. And it is important to know the details of what led up to this beating. There have been non-verified social media reports that set the whole "how did this happen" question on its ear. I work in a school in a high poverty, high violence, high gang member population area. I know better than to take the initial story as THE story because it is often way more complex that we anticipate. Not victim blaming but certainly am advocating to hear the bigger picture.

No one deserves to have the kind of injuries that we are seeing with a distinct possibility of long term or fatal damage. My heart goes out to this young woman and her family.

I'm genuinely curious why it's important to know the details of what led to it? Is it just because both are juveniles?

Let's say the victim was a missing person headline here who was later found murdered on that same slab of concrete, which very easily could have happened. I certainly wouldn't care what led to her murder in some bigger picture scenario. I may ask how a murder victim encountered her killer for mere curiosity, but I don't think those details have any impact on the case. I'd say the same thing here. I think the "bigger picture" is that a young woman has very likely lost any semblance of the life she knew, even if she doesn't die. There is nothing that could be bigger than that and nothing that could change how this plays out at this point.

MOO.

 

[Cryptic]

Didn't mean to imply you were critiquing the victim - I'm sorry if you thought I was. Was translating it for my understanding

Translating? Your English is very good, probably far better than my second language.

My "not critiquing" statement was never directed at you. Instead, I just wanted to state in the general sense that I was not "arm chair quarter backing" the victim's physical abilities.

 

[Eli9]

I am appalled at the amount of people on social media blaming the victim and standing up for the accused - not just on social media. Literally protesting that the accused be released. Strange.

I am not surprised sadly and expected this.
I am one who also does not need to know what led to this attack just as I wouldn't ask those types of questions in a rape or domestic violence case. MOO

 

[SteveP]

In my humble opinion, when situations like this arise it is very important to get the whole picture in order to make school, community and familial change to insure the violence stops. There has been on line speculation that this was not the first encounter between these two people. The victim's family has requested in the press that no further violence happen. In my school community, violence begets violence and the cycle does not end.

So, why is it important for us outside of the community to know? There are tons of conclusions and assumptions that happen here and elsewhere about both of these young women. The woman who attacked this girl has been spoken about here as her high school accomplishments being part of a low bar. I have no idea about the voracity of any statements that are not MSM. I, personally, want the truth to be the thing that guides me. No one should ever experience this kind of violence, ever. That said, we can't assume a person is an animal and all kinds of other things without knowing the context. Having done this, the attacker probably deserves a long prison term and, as such, I agree with all who think this. But if the greater rumors are true, then the other part of the story is important even though it does not change culpability, JMHO.

I think it may be safe to assume that there was some type of history between the attacker and victim, and that this brawl was not their first interaction. It clearly was not just some random attack. Based on the number of people hanging around, at least one with phone in hand to record what was about to go down, it seems likely that this was known by several to be going to happen when it did. Disregarding social media, where nothing can be verified, and one might hear anything and everything, we probably will not learn the answers to any of the "why", until this case goes to trial. JMO

 

[airportwoman]

Is East St. Louis still as bad as it used to be?

By all accounts, it just keeps getting worse and worse all the time. People rarely choose to move there, and when the kids grow up, the ones who have any kind of hope and leave for jobs, education, or the military don't come back.

It's also very difficult for people in some areas of (specifically) St. Louis to move to other areas of that city, because when a landlord sees some addresses, they're just not going to give that application another look, because the person Used To Live THERE.

 

[DeDee]

As I recall, there was a Police stance in StL for a while. However, maybe things will get better in the area. When I had business meetings in StL some 20 years ago, we never left our hotel to venture into the city.

MARCH 8, 2024
The number of vacancies within the SMLPD has dropped from 342 to 331 as of Friday night, and Chief Robert Tracy stated the department is working to decrease that number.

“We’re doing a recruiting process, actually working with Harris Stowe. We’re making sure we’re doing youth academies all during the summer. We got a cadet program. We got reimbursement initiatives,” Tracy said. “All these things are going to matter.”

MSN

 

[MollyDDD]

I agree. And it is important to know the details of what led up to this beating. There have been non-verified social media reports that set the whole "how did this happen" question on its ear. I work in a school in a high poverty, high violence, high gang member population area. I know better than to take the initial story as THE story because it is often way more complex that we anticipate. Not victim blaming but certainly am advocating to hear the bigger picture.

No one deserves to have the kind of injuries that we are seeing with a distinct possibility of long term or fatal damage. My heart goes out to this young woman and her family.

I really don’t see the importance of why she attacked her. What does that matter really? There is no excuse to do what she did to the victim, none.

 

[Cryptic]

I think it may be safe to assume that there was some type of history between the attacker and victim, and that this brawl was not their first interaction.

They evidently went to the same school and "prior history" can be very broadly defined. This could lead to such an assumption being inherently accurate.

Then again, there could have been substantial prior contact between the victim and the aggressor. It is also very plausible that the aggressor chose a weak victim and that any "prior history" was very nominal and was used as a pretense.

As a possible counter scenario, I strongly suspect that had the victim been a state level high school wrestler, a "prior history" of the nominal sort would not have resulted in the attack by the aggressor.

But.... human predators have a long practice of looking for pretenses and then attacking victims who are hopelessly out classed. This character trait is age old and transcends race, social class, ethnic origins, political ideology, income levels etc.

It is also possible that this age old predatory practice is the only story at work here.

 

[nightowl1975]

I’m unsure of the legal possibilities in a hypothetical situation where two individuals show up for a planned fight and things go horrifically sideways. Any input from legal folks? Does it only rise to the level of a crime if someone dies? Does permanent injury qualify as a crime if the fight was mutually agreed upon? I really don’t know how that works legally.

 

[Cryptic]

I’m unsure of the legal possibilities in a hypothetical situation where two individuals show up for a planned fight and things go horrifically sideways. Any input from legal folks? Does it only rise to the level of a crime if someone dies? Does permanent injury qualify as a crime if the fight was mutually agreed upon? I really don’t know how that works legally.

Though I am not a legal folk, I think that it varies by state, the circumstances, and as you stated, the degree of injury.

I have seen read of some instances of charges not being pressed as the two involved people involved in a violent confrontation were considered to be "mutual combatants"- or something to the effect.

But.... California pressed murder charges against an individual for "killing via knock out" in a surfer fight that was mutually agreed upon.

The victim, who also had a history of violent attacks, came out of his home with out a shirt on- street lingo for a willingness to fight. The shirtless bravo then ran right into an opponent who killed him via a knock out blow.

It should be noted, however, that there were several aggravating circumstances that could have led to negating any "willing combatant" concept.

The killer had "set up" and knocked out a series of other opponents, and had boasted of this. When fighting the victim, he knocked him down, allowed him to get to his feet again, then.... deliberately positioned himself and the victim for a maximum force punch.

 

[MadMcGoo]

As a reminder,

Discussing rumors, information or content found at a source that can’t be linked here is not allowed. Posts masking such rumors with descriptive details of “hypothetical” situations are no exception. Simply put - no link, no discussion.

Thanks for understanding!

 

[GoBuckeyes]

As I recall, there was a Police stance in StL for a while. However, maybe things will get better in the area. When I had business meetings in StL some 20 years ago, we never left our hotel to venture into the city.

MARCH 8, 2024
The number of vacancies within the SMLPD has dropped from 342 to 331 as of Friday night, and Chief Robert Tracy stated the department is working to decrease that number.

“We’re doing a recruiting process, actually working with Harris Stowe. We’re making sure we’re doing youth academies all during the summer. We got a cadet program. We got reimbursement initiatives,” Tracy said. “All these things are going to matter.”

MSN

Still at 331?! Wow!

 

[STLBlues]

Is East St. Louis still as bad as it used to be?

Yes, it is if not worse as @airportwoman said.

 

[Allabouttrial]

I am not surprised sadly and expected this.
I am one who also does not need to know what led to this attack just as I wouldn't ask those types of questions in a rape or domestic violence case. MOO

I would be asking questions if a DV victim killed their abuser. I imagine it would go towards mitigating circumstances.

 

[Allabouttrial]

Family of teen charged in Kaylee Gain case says she is the real victim

Kaylee Gain, 16, suffered a skull fracture when her head was repeatedly smashed into the ground during a brawl near her St. Louis high school earlier this month.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[al66pine]

Fundraising Campaign Page for Assailant's Legal Defense?

Family of teen charged in Kaylee Gain case says she is the real victim

Kaylee Gain, 16, suffered a skull fracture when her head was repeatedly smashed into the ground during a brawl near her St. Louis high school earlier this month.

www.dailymail.co.uk

@Allabouttrial Thnk for your post w link.
I wish we could read the narrative supporting this campaign, which was quickly removed from the website.

Quotes from the DM article, starting w comment from assailant's unnamed aunt.

" 'We set up a [***] but it was taken down in hours, we have a lawyer....'

"It raised nearly $3,000 before being taken down.

"The page was set up on March 16, begging for help with her legal defense, as her family claim that they have been targeted with 'racist death threats'.

"But the funds will now be returned to those who donated....
[***] spokeswoman said: 'I can confirm the fundraiser was removed and all donors have been refunded.

" '[***] Terms of Service explicitly prohibit fundraising for the legal defense of an alleged violent crime.'...."

____________________________________
^^^ [***] = the name of the fundraising website. My self censoring to comply w WS ToS. ^^^