Found Deceased TN - Riley Strain, 22, missing after leaving bar, Nashville, 8 March 2024 #2

[Cryptic]

That’s where I feel like all bars should step up more and ensure that black-out drunk patrons are put into a cab or have a buddy if they leave bar by foot.

I just dont think this is realistic.

Bar employees cannot police behavior choices. Thus, they cannot force somebody to accompany anybody.

Likewise, who pays for the cab, what happens when a "nice guy" drunk does not want to get in the cab, and what happens when the cab owners decides that he does not want to deal with a black out drunk?

 

[MarcieM]

I just dont think this is realistic.

Bar employees cannot police behavior choices. Thus, they cannot force somebody to accompany anybody.

Likewise, who pays for the cab, what happens when a "nice guy" drunk does not want to get in the cab, and what happens when the cab owners decides that he does not want to deal with a black out drunk?

I agree. It's a personal responsibility to ensure your going to have a safe way of getting home that night. If someone goes out for an evening, drinks like a fish and gets black out drunk I don't see how they should then become the bars responsibility to ensure they get home safely?

 

[grannygates]

I just dont think this is realistic.

Bar employees cannot police behavior choices. Thus, they cannot force somebody to accompany anybody.

Likewise, who pays for the cab, what happens when a "nice guy" drunk does not want to get in the cab, and what happens when the cab owners decides that he does not want to deal with a black out drunk?

There’s always variables and “what ifs” but it is the law. If you overserve someone, you are liable for them.

It may be because I follow true crime but I personally would rather intervene and than risk someone going off alone, too drunk, and then becoming a victim of crime like an SA.

 

[grannygates]

Reposting the dram shop law if anyone is interested:

Tennessee Dram Shop Laws and Social Host Liability for Alcohol-Related Accidents

When an intoxicated person injures someone else in Tennessee, find out whether or not the third party that provided the alcohol can be held liable.

www.nolo.com

 

[neesaki]

There does seem to be a sharp difference of opinion on WS on whether commercial establishments selling alcohol (bars AND restaurants) should be required to have staff drive drunk patrons home or be required to essentially abduct them by forcing them into prepaid (possibly dangerous) Ubers. Obviously establishments can't allow customers whose behavior crosses the line to remain but opinions seem to differ sharply on what should be done with those customers (assuming the situation doesn't require calling police or paramedics as this one didn't.) There were many posts on that topic earlier in the thread.

But in this case, the bar didn't "separate Riley from his friends." The bar didn't keep the friends from leaving when RS was told to leave. The friends chose to stay. Personally I suspect RS encouraged them to stay but obviously I can't know that. But when adults go out in a group to drink, whether at home or on vacation in a less familiar area, it's up to them to decide what will happen if something happens that could split up the group (whether it's a matter of someone getting too drunk, someone wanting to go to a different bar not favored by the group, or someone wanting to leave with a stranger.) I doubt this is the first time this particular group of college men has had a situation arise where one of them drank too much. So they likely had a plan of what they'd do. They were staying at what sounds like a pricey hotel very close by. It's possible they had enough money that they weren't even sharing rooms (as it seems possible no one knew RS hadn't made it back to the hotel that night.) The group could have all left the bar. The group could have called an Uber for RS. The group could have drawn straws and had one person take RS back to the hotel. What they did-- allowing RS to leave alone on foot-- may not be what any of us would have chosen to do (at least not since we were college students ourselves.) But the group was a group of adults. What they did obviously had tragic consequences that neither the group nor RS foresaw. And, of course everybody here wishes this had never happened. But blaming the bar doesn't make sense to me. I don't blame the friends either but if I HAD to choose to assign blame for anyone's choices besides RS's, I might.
MOO

I respect your opinion, but will agree to disagree. I have seen groups banned from bars before. Same should have happened here. The bartenders, staff…. Know exactly how dangerous the streets are for an inebriated young man if he’s alone. Hell, it’s dangerous even if you’re sober!
<modsnip - personalizing>
He was barely an adult, and he was no threat to anyone, yet they treated him like he didn’t matter. They just wanted to kick someone out. Hope they’re happy, and I hope the family gets the best lawyer in the state and puts those animals out of business. JMO

 

[neesaki]

The whole roofie thing has been discussed, and of course remains a possibility. Personally, I consider it a remote one, as alcohol still perfectly explains all of this.

It’s totally possible to get past the door staff when you’ve had too much, especially at a massive bar like that. Heck, we saw Riley go from falling down drunk, to seemingly normal, when he passed that police officer.

Blood alcohol continues to rise even after you’ve stopped drinking. He could have appeared ok after drinking at that previous bar, but the alcohol there coupled with the drink he had at Luke’s could have put him over the top (we don’t know what it was).

These guys had been drinking all day, and presumably, Riley had as well. With his frame, I wouldn’t expect him to have necessarily been able to handle it as well as someone with more body weight.

I think the alcohol just caught up with him.

I still am waiting on a good reason for him to have been kicked out of the bar…. According to family friend, he was trying to help someone and it became a misunderstanding. How can that be a reason to kick someone out? I’m waiting. Maybe the manager at the bar was just an AH.
<modsnip - off limits> I’m open to anything at this point.

 

[MarcieM]

Reposting the dram shop law if anyone is interested:

Reposting the dram shop law if anyone is interested:

Tennessee Dram Shop Laws and Social Host Liability for Alcohol-Related Accidents

When an intoxicated person injures someone else in Tennessee, find out whether or not the third party that provided the alcohol can be held liable.

www.nolo.com

So many pregame and bar hop though, so hard for the bar to know when they come in how much they have already had. In this case, Luke Bryan's did exactly what they should have, they noticed he was past the point and refused to serve him anymore, he then had to purchase water.

 

[neesaki]

This story about dear Riley being observed as he was vomiting is something to think about. It’s not necessarily an indication of him being drunk. I have finally viewed the video of him running into the lamp post, falling, and not getting up immediately. It is very difficult to believe he was not concussed, and vomiting is a frequent symptom of a concussion.

Another symptom is wanting to sleep, especially after vomiting. It wasn’t clear to me how close the rail where he was seen getting sick was to an easy roll into the river. I’m now wondering if as a result of a concussion, he lay down somewhere along there and went to sleep or even died from a brain bleed — and was spotted with an Apple Watch, iPhone, and nice clothes, from which he was robbed and then rolled into the river by the thief. MOO. This is just so sad.

IDK. Only a thought. I am not medically trained but have had personal experience with a number of concussions.

I’ve been thinking that all along since I saw the video of him falling down. He was literally running right before he fell… After he fell, he got up very, very slowly….and his gait changed. He was staggering, bent over, and you could tell he wasn’t right. He could well have suffered a concussion, and although able to speak coherently to the PO, symptoms of closed head injury can be insidious and creep up. The vomiting was probably a symptom of CHI. I really think that’s going to come into play here.
Im not verified but I do have education and experience in that world. JMO

 

[NCWatcher]

There’s always variables and “what ifs” but it is the law. If you overserve someone, you are liable for them.

It may be because I follow true crime but I personally would rather intervene and than risk someone going off alone, too drunk, and then becoming a victim of crime like an SA.

I think state laws vary. And I think knowingly overserving is where the problem comes in. At least that's what the Dram Shop law in Tenn you posted says:
"the seller sold alcohol to a "visibly intoxicated" person, and drinking the alcohol was a direct cause of the injury or death."

So if a person hides his intoxication well, the sellar isn't at fault. And the burden is on the victim to prove the seller knew or should have known, per your post.

MOO

 

[neesaki]

Drunk young men do risky things constantly. Do you know who is most often the victim of snakebites?

Alcohol And Snake Bites - Reptiles Magazine

Boozing can lead to snake bites.

reptilesmagazine.com

Unless he had a head injury from the fall and had no cognizance at all as to what or where.

 

[MassGuy]

I still am waiting on a good reason for him to have been kicked out of the bar…. According to family friend, he was trying to help someone and it became a misunderstanding. How can that be a reason to kick someone out? I’m waiting. Maybe the manager at the bar was just an AH.
Or, maybe they put something in his drink, kicked him out , and set him up. I’m open to anything at this point.

Whatever it was specifically, he was so intoxicated that the next bar he went to wouldn’t allow him in. Bars can kick people out for any reason at all, provided it isn’t discriminatory. I’ve seen people thrown out for a lot less than what likely happened here. It sounded to me like even that family friend understood the bar’s reasoning.

Riley was able to pull it together when he encountered that police officer. You see that behavior with alcohol but I wouldn’t expect it with some sort of roofie.

That’s besides the fact that there’s no point drugging some guy in the presence of his friends, when you have no reasonable expectation you’re going to be able to get to him alone.

He wasn’t followed. He wasn’t robbed. It’s such an unnecessary incredible reach when you have a scenario that happens all the time. People get drunk and drown.

 

[MarcieM]

I think state laws vary. And I think knowingly overserving is where the problem comes in. At least that's what the Dram Shop law in Tenn you posted says:
"the seller sold alcohol to a "visibly intoxicated" person, and drinking the alcohol was a direct cause of the injury or death."

So if a person hides his intoxication well, the sellar isn't at fault. And the burden is on the victim to prove the seller knew or should have known, per your post.

MOO

Yes! Now this makes perfect sense...

 

[Emi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1770850016619303139

 

[SleutherGirl]

I don't know what the solution is. But there has to be something better than tossing a blind drunk out on his ear to wander his way home.

 

[Chingaling]

It helps but not that much. He could be dozens of miles away by now, no matter where he went in.

So by that logic where he went in is of no concern to LE. Everybody and his uncle knows the river is going to take a person somewhere else, but I do think the location he entered the water is also important. Don't understand why anyone would want to dismiss this important info.,

 

[DoctorRose]

I don't understand how we're blaming the bar, they only served him one drink and then refused to serve him anymore. They did exactly what they were supposed to do but unfortunately, his friends weren't ready to leave yet as it was only a little after 9:30pm. I have a 21 year old who has gotten himself kicked out of the same bar twice in the same evening and I never once blamed the bar for putting him out. It never even crossed my mind as he was past the point and that is a place of business and they can't have people like that there for many reasons and I completely get that. If people are planning on going out drinking, it is their responsibility to ensure they will have a safe way to get home at the end of the evening. I always tell my son he has to take care of himself and he shouldn't expect his friends or anyone else to have to babysit him when he drinks past the point. I personally don't believe this happened but, if someone did slip something in Riley's drink that night, then this situation becomes something totally different...

Exactly. We should be teaching young people to have their own back. Like sure these people might be your friends but do you sincerely trust your life being in their hands? Wouldn’t you feel safer with your life in your own hands? It’s a form of self care to look after yourself in these situations. When I look back at when I was younger and would drink too much and rely on the people around me to get home safe, etc. I can see now that holy cow I really did not care about myself a whole lot in those moments. You don’t want to take the gamble to see if other people will keep you safe when the stakes are that high.

 

[Chingaling]

I am sure that LE is considering that possibility and following up, accordingly.

Not according to the presser. they are not looking for small pieces of evidence. <modsnip>

 

[SleutherGirl]

Exactly. We should be teaching young people to have their own back. Like sure these people might be your friends but do you sincerely trust your life being in their hands? Wouldn’t you feel safer with your life in your own hands? It’s a form of self care to look after yourself in these situations. When I look back at when I was younger and would drink too much and rely on the people around me to get home safe, etc. I can see now that holy cow I really did not care about myself a whole lot in those moments. You don’t want to take the gamble to see if other people will keep you safe when the stakes are that high.

I thought one of Riley's frat mates tried to follow him out? That's what I heard at the start. He left one of his friends to pay his bar tab but by the time the boy got out on the street, Riley had vanished.

Is this no longer accurate?

 

[Van Helsing]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1770850016619303139

Would that allow him to sober up a little, getting the alcohol out of his stomach? Maybe not very quickly though?

 

[MarcieM]

I still am waiting on a good reason for him to have been kicked out of the bar…. According to family friend, he was trying to help someone and it became a misunderstanding. How can that be a reason to kick someone out? I’m waiting. Maybe the manager at the bar was just an AH.
<modsnip - off limits> I’m open to anything at this point.

Whatever it was it seems the family has decided not to share. I thought maybe he did or said something that was unflattering so they don't want to say. I don't know...