Australia Samantha Murphy, 51, last seen leaving her property to go for a run in the Canadian State Forest, Ballarat 100km NW of Melbourne, 4 Feb 2024 #8

[Trooper]

Can I ask a random question about bail? I have googled a bit, but I'm hoping those with a bit more experience sleuthing will know the answers for Victoria. Can anyone, accused of any crime, apply for bail? AFAIK, there has been no mention of the accused applying for bail. From prior discussions here it seems that should the accused be found guilty, time spent in remand will come off his sentence, and remand is preferable to big boy prison. I would assume, based on the crime, that bail would be denied. Obviously I can't get inside anyone's head, but if you were not guilty, and confident of not being found guilty, would you not apply for bail to regain your rightful freedom? His hearing (or whatever it is) is 6 months from the time he was arrested. That's a long time just to get to the hearing, I assume a trial will then be many months later, if not a couple of years. That's a long time to sit in remand if you didn't do the crime. MOO

HB, in VIctoria ,, and in most states, it is quite rare to get bail if you're charged with murder, there has to be really extenuating circumstances, and even then, it is still rare. That is probably one reason his barrister, lawyer, did not ask for bail. A refusal would have been almost certain. And this looks bad, the optics of it are not positive. Better not to ask.

There are no barriers to asking for bail, though. Anyone CAN ask, lots of people ask for it, and are granted it, providing they come up with the bail money, but not many charged with murder. The risk to the public is unacceptable, mostly.

Yes, it's a long time to sit in remand. His case will be moved along smartly, since it is a Supreme Court case, ( not a magistrates court, or a County court case ) as murder is, but even that takes a couple of months, sometimes longer.

 

[McCoy]

i agree and this delusional state possibly enabled him to keep functioning in the days and weeks later, going to work and socialising etc

I agree with ProfCluezo as well, Gerard Baden Clay was an example of a malignant narcissist psychopath who had been functioning quite well in society.

 

[Trooper]

I agree with ProfCluezo as well, Gerard Baden Clay was an example of a malignant narcissist psychopath who had been functioning quite well in society.

well..not really. He , Gerard, was for some time, running a long term affair with a colleague from his work, he spoke about his plans to get rid of his wife, he was running his real estate office at a loss, scamming the books, he told people he owned his house, but he was renting it, he told his mistress that his wife was the cause of all his troubles.. that is a non functioning person. If you mean , did he APPEAR to be functioning, that's a different matter. He appeared to be functioning to various clients, at various times.

Where as, this young bloke has no background that anyone knows anything about. .. in the high functioning personality disorder circus, he is , to all intents and purposes, an unknown entity. Except for the murder. Of a complete stranger.

Edited to add.. Gerard was so low functioning, the first copper he spoke with ,( he rang them to tell them his wife had 'disappeared' the young copper looked at his face, saw the scratches and immed. called his supervisor. Gerard was THE only suspect 5 hours after he murdered Allison)

 

[HoneyBunOne]

HB, in VIctoria ,, and in most states, it is quite rare to get bail if you're charged with murder, there has to be really extenuating circumstances, and even then, it is still rare. That is probably one reason his barrister, lawyer, did not ask for bail. A refusal would have been almost certain. And this looks bad, the optics of it are not positive. Better not to ask.

There are no barriers to asking for bail, though. Anyone CAN ask, lots of people ask for it, and are granted it, providing they come up with the bail money, but not many charged with murder. The risk to the public is unacceptable, mostly.

Yes, it's a long time to sit in remand. His case will be moved along smartly, since it is a Supreme Court case, ( not a magistrates court, or a County court case ) as murder is, but even that takes a couple of months, sometimes longer.

Thanks for the clarification. I'm glad accused murderers generally do not get bail, it would make a mockery of the system.

 

[Poirot's niece]

Totally agree with you. It's pretty hard to tell police where her body is, then try and plead not guilty later. His silence also buys the ability to plead not guilty at any point. His silence may also mean he's young and cocky enough to think he's above the law and will get off, and that there won't be enough evidence to get a conviction at trial. His silence may also be a bit of an F you, giving him the feeling of power or control of a situation that has gotten out of hand. All my opinions only.

Agreed on all points. Possible grandiose delusions about himself.

 

[louisepiglet]

HB, in VIctoria ,, and in most states, it is quite rare to get bail if you're charged with murder, there has to be really extenuating circumstances, and even then, it is still rare. That is probably one reason his barrister, lawyer, did not ask for bail. A refusal would have been almost certain. And this looks bad, the optics of it are not positive. Better not to ask.

There are no barriers to asking for bail, though. Anyone CAN ask, lots of people ask for it, and are granted it, providing they come up with the bail money, but not many charged with murder. The risk to the public is unacceptable, mostly.

Yes, it's a long time to sit in remand. His case will be moved along smartly, since it is a Supreme Court case, ( not a magistrates court, or a County court case ) as murder is, but even that takes a couple of months, sometimes longer.

So if, after sitting in remand etc for all that time before you eventually get to trial, you are then found innocent do you just have to suck it up and move on. All those months of no income along with the emotional stress is to be just forgiven. It seems unfair that a person's life would be completely upended through no fault of their own. Do they receive some recompense? Not saying that PS is innocent. Your comment just got me thinking.

 

[nightpaw]

I just find it hard ascribing positive qualities to him, like protectiveness, when there is no demonstrable basis for that. Right now, he is accused of a crime that requires the qualities of a committed woman bashing , and a very strong element of cowardice thrown in. I would bet good dollars he would not have tried out his killing skills on a bloke. He chose a woman, a generation older than he.

It's difficult to see how the accused, who has without doubt, all the advantages that Australia can bestow on a person, Young, Tall, Male , White, Privately Educated, Tradesman, Supportive Parents, who are still married, and living in their own home, Girlfriend, Friends, Sporting Prowess, Steady Employment, and not just sporting but FOOTBALL, the Victorian Religion, has any call on any citizen to find sympathetic qualities in this killer.

We don’t know that the accused PS parents are supportive or “good people” … family dynamics can be outwardly angelic and totally diabolical on the interior… also we know nothing about the functionality of his alleged intimate relationship…
If PS as allegedly murdered SM in broad daylight as speculated there might be a lot more to it and more (whether or not the “more” involves other people idk ?) involved either directly or indirectly. He very well could be staying silent for reasons outside of what’s being assumed here. I wouldn’t rule anything out just yet… jmo

 

[Trooper]

So if, after sitting in remand etc for all that time before you eventually get to trial, you are then found innocent do you just have to suck it up and move on. All those months of no income along with the emotional stress is to be just forgiven. It seems unfair that a person's life would be completely upended through no fault of their own. Do they receive some recompense? Not saying that PS is innocent. Your comment just got me thinking.

First, if I can state again, VICPOL claiming (a) that Mrs. Murphy was dead, and (b) that she died that Sunday morning, (c) at Mt. Clear, and (d) she died at the hand of Mr. Stephenson, is such a bold and irreversible claim, such a huge claim to make that I can say I have not heard VICPOL make such a claim before, these 4 separate, yet connected events, don't leave a lot of room for doubt, and to VICPOL it would be essential to get this suspect off the streets as quickly and as safely as possible, since no one knows why he murdered a woman whom he did not know.

And he,, obviously , was not going to tell anyone why. So it could happen again. Soon.

That said, yes. Sucking it up is the modus operandi. It is unfair, and one's life is completely upended. And no. There is no recompence, not even in civil law. This is how the law works, it has it 's flaws, and sometimes, people get stuck in big flaw. But not often, and usually, there are sound and solid reasons why this person came to be held on remand in the first place. But, it has a certain unfairness built in.

 

[HoneyBunOne]

So if, after sitting in remand etc for all that time before you eventually get to trial, you are then found innocent do you just have to suck it up and move on. All those months of no income along with the emotional stress is to be just forgiven. It seems unfair that a person's life would be completely upended through no fault of their own. Do they receive some recompense? Not saying that PS is innocent. Your comment just got me thinking.

From a quick bit of googling, it looks like too bad, so sad.

This is a pay walled article, but the opening line seems to say it all. (Actually, it's not pay walled, but does require signing in):

Lawyers want compensation for people found not guilty after years in jail

A consortium of top lawyers are making the case after The Sun-Herald revealed seven people were behind bars for 15 years in total for a murder they did not commit.

www.smh.com.au

 

[SouthAussie]

Can I ask a random question about bail? I have googled a bit, but I'm hoping those with a bit more experience sleuthing will know the answers for Victoria. Can anyone, accused of any crime, apply for bail? AFAIK, there has been no mention of the accused applying for bail. From prior discussions here it seems that should the accused be found guilty, time spent in remand will come off his sentence, and remand is preferable to big boy prison. I would assume, based on the crime, that bail would be denied. Obviously I can't get inside anyone's head, but if you were not guilty, and confident of not being found guilty, would you not apply for bail to regain your rightful freedom? His hearing (or whatever it is) is 6 months from the time he was arrested. That's a long time just to get to the hearing, I assume a trial will then be many months later, if not a couple of years. That's a long time to sit in remand if you didn't do the crime. MOO

Yes, he can apply for bail. But it could not be done in the magistrates court ... which is the only court he has been in yet, for this case.

Bail for murder in Victoria must be applied for in the Supreme Court. Which does not mean that bail would be granted. Just that this is the venue for applying for bail when charged with murder in Victoria.

I would think that the journos are watching the Supreme Court listings to see if his name pops up as applying for bail.

imo

The Magistrates’ Court hears most bail applications but if the accused is under 18, then the Children’s Court will hear the application. If the charge is murder, the Supreme Court must hear the bail application.
Bail Applications and Conditions

 

[Trooper]

Yes, he can apply for bail. But it could not be done in the magistrates court ... which is the only court he has been in yet, for this case.

Bail for murder in Victoria must be applied for in the Supreme Court. Which does not mean that bail would be granted. Just that this is the venue for applying for bail when charged with murder in Victoria.

I would think that the journos are watching the Supreme Court listings to see if his name pops up as applying for bail.

imo

The Magistrates’ Court hears most bail applications but if the accused is under 18, then the Children’s Court will hear the application. If the charge is murder, the Supreme Court must hear the bail application.
Bail Applications and Conditions

Just to add to this, this is why he needs a barrister, to apply to the Supreme court for bail. His lawyer cannot do this. He will not get it , though, VICPOL will oppose it, not that VICPOL opposing it is guarantee that you won't get bail, but because <modnip - sub judice>


I can't think of any extenuating circumstances that he would be granted bail. He is not the sole carer of children, he is possibly a flight risk, he is unco=operative, in spades, with police, ( not a good look when requesting bail ) and he does not appear to have anyone willing to take responsibility for his living arrangements..

 

[Deleted member 293720]

We don’t know that the accused PS parents are supportive or “good people” … family dynamics can be outwardly angelic and totally diabolical on the interior… also we know nothing about the functionality of his alleged intimate relationship…
If PS as allegedly murdered SM in broad daylight as speculated there might be a lot more to it and more (whether or not the “more” involves other people idk ?) involved either directly or indirectly. He very well could be staying silent for reasons outside of what’s being assumed here. I wouldn’t rule anything out just yet… jmo

We don't know as well If Samantha was taken to a house etc...while Still Alive on the day
( as police believed she died in the same area, at Mt Clear that same day )

And then she was murdered that day (which would have been the deliberate act of murder) and her body placed somewhere,
Possibly has been moved from her original resting spot a few times

As police seemed pretty adamant on the charge and deliberate act without a body

Besides the phone ping evidence, police searches and friends coming forward / witnesses etc..

The main proof, I am thinking is, the police must have video recording with the accused and Samantha and photos
that shows the accused assaulting Samantha and then killing her


Police will allege the murder of missing Ballarat mother Samantha Murphy was a "deliberate act" that occurred on the day she disappeared,

 

[BreakingNews]

The continued silence of PS regarding Samantha's body is making me wonder just what evidence LE do have. If it was something incontrovertible, eg. video from either a phone or dash cam, PS would realise there was no way around his guilt. But if LE are telling him we have been told about a snapchat post you made proving you murdered her he might be feeling more confident. A snap chat post, once it has been viewed, disappears into the ether after a very short space of time. If LE were advised of it quickly there is a chance it could be saved but I am not sure of the time frame. A witness, in court, claiming to have seen the snapchat post, would not be as strong as having the actual post. I feel that until Samantha's body has actually been recovered PS will be mute.

There was a post from earlier today with an article about how police can use a program to retrieve deleted information. Can anyone find the link now? I can't. It was a very interesting article.

 

[Kemug]

I can't think of any extenuating circumstances that he would be granted bail. He is not the sole carer of children, he is possibly a flight risk, he is unco=operative, in spades, with police, ( not a good look when requesting bail ) and he does not appear to have anyone willing to take responsibility for his living arrangements..

RSBM
And if he was let out on bail, how would he support himself? Who would want him doing electrical work around their property, a likely murderer, and a crazy one at that?

 

[drsleuth]

There was a post from earlier today with an article about how police can use a program to retrieve deleted information. Can anyone find the link now? I can't. It was a very interesting article.

Cellebrite?

https://www.publicdefenders.nsw.gov.au/Documents/Nick%20Broadbent%20Electronic%20Evidence%20PD%20Conference%20Presentation.pdf

 

[SouthAussie]

RSBM
And if he was let out on bail, how would he support himself? Who would want him doing electrical work around their property, a likely murderer, and a crazy one that?

His lawyer would have to show how he isn't a danger to society. And, in my mind, he is one of the biggest dangers there is. A person who has the capacity to allegedly deliberately attack and kill a stranger who was out for a pleasant Sunday morning run.

imo

 

[Trooper]

RSBM
And if he was let out on bail, how would he support himself? Who would want him doing electrical work around their property, a likely murderer, and a crazy one that?

There were lots of pics in the Daily Fail , him and the girlfriend zipping here and there, up to Albury, off to Bali, over to SA etc.. he must have a passport, and knows his way around outside of Ballarat, ..big flight risk, nothing to lose, really..

Don't know who would let him inside to fix their plugs, K.. not me. He could hardly go back to Mt.Clear, or to Ballarat, or to Scotsburn.. not realistically. He could interfere with potential witnesses, and he should be no where near the Murphy family, for their sake if not for his.

 

[BreakingNews]

Just to add to this, this is why he needs a barrister, to apply to the Supreme court for bail. His lawyer cannot do this. He will not get it , though, VICPOL will oppose it, not that VICPOL opposing it is guarantee that you won't get bail, but because <modsnip - sub judice>


I can't think of any extenuating circumstances that he would be granted bail. He is not the sole carer of children, he is possibly a flight risk, he is unco=operative, in spades, with police, ( not a good look when requesting bail ) and he does not appear to have anyone willing to take responsibility for his living arrangements..

In Australia it is very rare that bail is granted for murder charges.

Can I ask a random question about bail? I have googled a bit, but I'm hoping those with a bit more experience sleuthing will know the answers for Victoria. Can anyone, accused of any crime, apply for bail? AFAIK, there has been no mention of the accused applying for bail. From prior discussions here it seems that should the accused be found guilty, time spent in remand will come off his sentence, and remand is preferable to big boy prison. I would assume, based on the crime, that bail would be denied. Obviously I can't get inside anyone's head, but if you were not guilty, and confident of not being found guilty, would you not apply for bail to regain your rightful freedom? His hearing (or whatever it is) is 6 months from the time he was arrested. That's a long time just to get to the hearing, I assume a trial will then be many months later, if not a couple of years. That's a long time to sit in remand if you didn't do the crime. MOO

It is very rare someone charged for murder is granted bail. If someone pleads guilty, then the case goes straight to sentencing. If not, it goes to a committal hearing, then trial. Can take years. Yes the accused sits in jail on remand. Murder and treason usually don't get bail.

 

[Kemug]

His lawyer would have to show how he isn't a danger to society. And, in my mind, he is one of the biggest dangers there is. A person who has the capacity to allegedly deliberately attack and kill a stranger who was out for a pleasant Sunday morning run.

imo

Of course he isn't a danger to society - you're almost certainly safe unless you're a female. As far as we know.

 

[Deleted member 340727]

Dr Sleuth:
'Maybe they were looking more for the watch & phone today & had the tech finding doggies on the job, it seemed a quick targeted search IMO'
This was my initial opinion of this search and the dogs added further suspicion. MOO