Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #2

[Angleterre]

I don’t have a firm grasp on haplogroups but due to mixing and migration it seems like they are somewhat dubious? From what I’ve found online HV occurs in Europe (unevenly, as it’s rarer in the north and west and increases as you move south and east) but is not originally a European haplogroup? Origin is west Asian and occurs most commonly in the Caucasus and Arabian peninsula regions (so Asia). But years of migration muddies things a bit it seems.

Excellent write up by Charlot123 but jumping on the back of your reply, Mesquite021 is the way in which Japan and the Japanese LE guard the privacy of their citizens and I might be wrong in my assumption but I get the impression that they wouldn’t want to go down the route mentioned by Charlot123 in any event, irrespective of it being faceless and then as you clearly stated, throw migration into the mix and it becomes Uber convoluted! MOO

 

[FacelessPodcast]

One other thing I pondered about, and sorry if this has already been said or discussed, that perhaps burglary was not a premier or main motive because, in addition to not stealing all the available money in the home, the adjoining house and Yasuko’s grandmother were fortunately spared. Still, I can’t but think of how the elderly are typically considered a vulnerable population physically and health-wise and as a result, at least in the US, are very often targeted for robberies and B&Es. Robbers and muggers tend to prey and depend on the stereotype that an elderly person’s are easily overpowered, harmed and incapacitated.

Yes, I totally agree. If the objective was money, then very little in his actions make sense. The argument against his primary motive being money is pretty extensive but for me, primarily, my problem is this: why not take all the money? Why ignore jewelry, foreign currency, valuables? Why bring a bag to the scene, then not fill it with goods before fleeing? If the motive was money, why enter the house at a time when it was obvious that the family was home so, at minimum, some kind of altercation was reasonable to expect?

IIRC, the perp was notably injured as the Mirwazawa family courageously defended themselves and each other. Thus in thinking more about any potential motives of this heinous murderer why did he not B&E the seemingly empty house attached nextdoor? If robbery of goods, money or finances was a motive why not plan to target and attack the grandmother first or only to maximize the benefits that could he accrue from his criminal activity in face of all the risks?

There were four houses left in the immediate area. One was uninhabited. A couple lived opposite the Miyazawas (they saw and heard nothing according to the Chief). Then An Irie, her mother, husband, and son right next door. They hear nothing except for, apparently, a loud bang -- later proven to be the attic stairs being thrown up into place. And, of course, the Miyazawa family. Given that three were lived in and one was not, I don't see why the killer would make his choice as he did. If it would make sense for him to choose the empty house, the implication is presumably that he wants money. If you want money, presumably you don't want to have to murder small children to get it. Again, it doesn't make sense. One of the many elements in this case are that his actions are very difficult to reconcile with anything other than his primary goal was to murder the family. Which is the exact net result.

Or perhaps maybe he did know the know the family or at least the grandmother and/or An Iris, her husband and son and liked her or them well enough that their mom and home was spared?

If this were true, then Ann and her family have done an incredible job of hiding it. I can tell you that the Chief looked extremely hard for any sort of connection. If he was a friend of Ann or anyone that close to the Miyazawas, I wholeheartedly believe he would've found them. It's always possible such a man fell through the cracks, of course. But I just find that very hard to imagine.

Also as stated by many, including @FacelessPodcast, this killer was filled with rage, particularly towards Yasuko? One theory I questioned some more if what the killer was not motivated by a slight to themselves but to a loved one or someone they felt personally attached to? Was, for example, was Yasuko a tutor to a girlfriend, little cousin or neighbor that unfortunately held animosity or a grudge against her? Or perhaps they werent doing well in her sessions and this contributed to problems at home with their parents?

Possible but we know that the TMPD looked at the home school extremely throughly. This is unsurprising seeing as they are still adamant that the killer was between 15-24 years of age on the night of the murders. But as above, I find it extremely difficult to imagine a scenario where anyone connected to her tutoring could slip past the gaze of the TMPD for 24 years. As for what emotion was driving the killer, I feel rage is the most logical. But we simply don't know. I can tell you that any sort of sexual component to the crimes was ruled out.

Was a loved one or significant other possibly also one of the skaters that got into an argument with Misoko? Did this individual get in trouble with the police or their parents and vent to to killer who then went on to unlawfully and monstrous get revenge for them while also aiming to find some sort of evidence, such as a copy of a police report, contact information for his loved one’s parents or school or documentation banning them from the park to help determine how much trouble his loved one was in or prevent them from facing the consequences.

RE: Mikio, it seems it depends who you ask. The overall impression is a kind, loving man. But we have reports of him asking the skaters to keep it down. Some say this was shouting. The skaters I spoke to who remember that incident only described as as once and Mikio was, apparently, very calm about it. We also hear that he shouted at people parking too close to his house (note that Yasuko apparently remarked to her family that someone was doing this in the days before the murderer -- I've theorised many times the killer may have had a car. 2+2=4?) Other reports come from his office where he is described both as brilliant and hard-working but sometimes 'difficult'. Seeing as the only direct relation I've spoken to is his mother, perhaps it's unsurprising that we've not heard more 'negatives', as it were. His colleagues at Interbrand (still employed at the same office) seemed to weigh up speaking with me for the podcast but ultimately said no. It's a real pity because they might've filled in some important blanks, even if seemingly unimportant to them. Still, I know they were all interviewed extensively by the Chief et al. Basically, it's possible an argument or Mikio's behaviour sparked the events that night. It absolutely is possible. I just don't buy it.

Or is it possible that some sort of conflict the the parents had with someone close or near to him or that either the killer witnessed or learned about afterwards trigger his own insecurities about himself, how he felt about his own family or some deep seated feelings of inferiority or that he didn’t belong, was too different or would never fit in. Could such emotional turmoil been ill-managed and instead of coping, he chose to react horrifically as he did the unthinkable of brutally attacking and killing a whole family?

It's definitely possible. My feeling is that the killer went after the Miyazawa family because he could. He had his own inner turmoil and desperately needed to take it out on someone.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Great thread. This is a case I've been interested for years and definitely one of the weirdest once out there.

Arigato, @femto. Thank you for your thoughts. And yes, I agree on the weirdness. I've had this case under my skin since 2010, I sometimes dream about it...

For my money, everything in this case seems to point to one of those skateboarders Mikio seemed to have arguments with. The age and subculture appropriate clothing, the juvenile behavior at the crime scene, the very hectic and amateurish way the perpetrator committed the murders. It seems impulsive, filled with emotional & primal rage and very opportunistic, not someone experienced in age or mentally grown or very aware of investigation procedures given the amount of evidence he left all over the crime scene.

As alluded to in one of my recent comments, we don't actually know they were arguments with the skaters. A few things are often misunderstood about this situation. 1) The skatepark is not right outside the house. It's actually across the way. Of course, it's very possible a group of noisy teens would've been audible and perhaps annoying. But it wouldn't be the kind of unbearable noise that is assumed. 2) We know that the TMPD has chased down skaters connected to Soshigaya Park for the last 24 years. I spoke to quite a few, one of which features in my podcast. They were all fingerprinted to eliminate them from the case. Masafumi, the one interviewed on Faceless, made it clear that to him it didn't seem like a lead they necessarily believed in. Just one they were eliminating. 3) I've spoken to people who knew of the occasion when Mikio stepped outside and asked the skaters to keep it down. This person was adamant it only happened once and that he was reasonable about it. When Mikio said this, the skaters apologised and left. Now, we might wonder if this skater was fudging those events. But he was fingerprinted and eliminated from the case. He said: there was nobody in that group who would've given a second thought to a dad asking them to keep it down. 4)The clothing is not, in my opinion, appropriate for a skater. Every single skater I spoke to said the same thing. For one thing, he's wearing tennis shoes, not skater shoes. On your last point about the killer's maturity: we know for a fact the police are looking for a man who was 15-24 on the night of the murders. So, we can openly speculate about him being young or immature and I don't think that's much of a leap. But as for him leaving evidence everywhere as evidence of this. Maybe, or maybe he simply didn't care because he knew he wasn't coming back. Which leads on to...

I don't think he is in the military, had any military connections, was non-Japanese or was experienced in killing in any way. Nothing in this crime shows that, in fact it is the opposite. For example, you can compare it to the Original Night Stalker murders to see the difference in the approach.

With respect, there are military connections and this is something I've written about ad nauseam. For one, there's sand from a US military base that a Japanese citizen does not have access to. The other type of sand is from around Mabori Beach, where US Yokosuka Base is located. The killer also had the ability to disappear without a trace and never be seen again. So, either he's sloppy and lucky in the house (which he is) or he's Jason Borne who can disappear from 24 years and live off the grid. He cannot, in my view, be both. The answer to that is: he has that sand because his father is in the USAF and was previously in California. He then returns to base where the TMPD cannot touch him. He then leaves Japan and never comes back. I know with absolute certainty that this is possible because, among other things, I suspect a particular man of these murders -- this is his exact background.

As for the killer being non-Japanese. We simply don't know. We only know anything about the killer's ethnicity because of Dr. M (I won't give him his full name as he recently declined to take part in any future podcast), the man who is quoted universally as saying the killer has a 1 in 4 chance of being Korean and a 1 in 14 chance of being Japanese. But this man, who is a respected figure in the world of Japanese DNA associations etc, analysed the killer's DNA. One of his colleagues then leaked his findings to the press. The TMPD asked for that information to be removed from Wikipedia. This request was denied by Wikipedia unless the TMPD could show them the information is false. So, all that to say, do we know the killer is non-Japanese? No, we don't. But working with the limited details that are out there and that are reliable, it seems like there's a good chance. Moreover, if he's Japanese, then how did he get on to Edwards USAF base? Is it possible he eluded the TMPD for 24 years living up a mountain somewhere? Sure, it's possible. Is it likely? To me, no.

As for his experience in killing, I don't take a view. Given his (probable) young age, I would say it's likely these were his first. Certainly in Japan. But equally, people make mistakes --even experienced ones. Sometimes you slip. Top 10 tennis plays serve double-faults. That he entered the house with a sushi knife that he ended up cutting himself with doesn't necessarily mean he can't have strangled his high school girlfriend to death etc.

I also don't believe it was a random drifter. Random drifters wouldn't attack such a big house like that if they don't know relatively what they are getting themselves into. All evidence seems to point at the skateboarders. Perhaps one didn't take too kindly to be shouted at or told what to do. With psychopaths you'll never know what can trigger them.

If he's a random drifter, then he's one who can afford relatively expensive tennis shoes, a brand new jacket only released a few weeks before, a relatively expensive top, a good knife (around $50US in the year 2000), and he wears French aftershave. That to me doesn't sound like a drifter. RE: the evidence pointing to a skateboarder, I respectfully disagree. And, as I say, the TMPD has gone after them hard for 24 years and got zilch out of it. From the sounds of it, the detectives still investigating today don't believe this theory either. Final point, as for his motive. As I've said many times in this thread: it's of course possible the Miyazawa family did something to the killer / something he didn't like. Based on all my research, I take the view that it basically had nothing to do with them. That the killer carried his own rage and he levelled it at them.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Is it out of the question that he may have had an older brother in the military and borrowed an old hip pack belonging to him? It's possible his father had also been part of the military as well and maybe was strict, rigid, disciplinarian at home especially towards the perp who felt powerless against his father's aggression.

It isn't out of the question, @Janitor101. However, only the killer's DNA and fingerprints were found on that hip bag. Yet sand grains from California and Mabori Beach were found in there too. So, if it wasn't the killer's bag, he had to have some way of removing all forensic traces of a previous owner while at the same time leaving sand in there. Maybe this is possible, of course.

RE: his father being in the military, strict etc. Yes, definitely. And it so happens that my person of interest is in that exact boat.

I'm leaning towards that disorganized-type killer who picks his targets at random, but who may have watched the children playing in the park unsupervised by the grandma. The crime itself was frenzied, sadistic and overkill was apparent to the detectives which strengthens my idea of a mentally disordered, disorganized killer.

I also have the gut feeling he watched them beforehand. Or at the very least, didn't go in blindly. However, as to whether it was a frenzy or not. It can be argued either way. Yasuko was left without a face, her brain was protruding. So, clearly, he was stabbing wildly. Niina's two front teeth were missing. To me, that feels like he was driven by fury or hatred. (Did the family do anything to provoke it, or was it there already and he simply took it out on them?). However, the killer also stopped his attack on the females mid-way through to go and change knives. He also ate ice cream and drank tea, logged on to their computer. Such a frenzy, you would imagine, once subsided, would be followed by the killer coming to his senses and fleeing. Not this guy. He stayed and relaxed. Ultimately, I don't know.

He left the murder weapon as well as 16,000 pieces of physical evidence and couldn't have cared less. It was the power and control and humiliation he exacted over his helpless victims which was his ultimate goal. Maybe he was enraged simply because these children seemed so happy as they played outside - a happiness that had been denied to him in his own childhood especially if his father constantly threw his brother's accomplishments in his face.

The number 16,000 -- this has since been recontextualised for me since making the podcast. I think it's the case that 16,000 items are logged in the house. But that most of it isn't actual evidence in the murders. Don't get me wrong, there is plenty of evidence the killer leaves behind. But just to be clear about that number. And yes, your theories are as likely as mine or anyone else's at this stage. Maybe it was their happiness. Maybe it was something they had done. Maybe it was he simply didn't like their faces.

My bet is he had below average IQ and worked in low paying, menial jobs (dishwasher, prep.cook) and was frequently fired. I also think he lived close to the crime scene and could have easily walked to and from the crime scene at night and gone unnoticed.

Such a person would have access to a good knife, as used in the murders. So, it's possible. But he'd have to go 24 years without committing another crime. Moreover, stay out of the view of the TMPD. It's possible this fits the bill, yes. But how does a below average IQ cook get to California near a military base? How does this guy disappear for 24 years? This murderer is essentially Japan's most wanted criminal. While I can't discount this, my bet is that he had a permanent way out of Japan and he took it. The son of a USAF man would fit this, of course. And also provide a route out of Japan leaving zero record behind. Which is exactly what happened in the case of my POI...

These are just meaningless meanderings from an amateur sleuther who has a weird interest in psychology and crime scene behaviors.

As are my meanderings, @Janitor101! Yours are very welcome here

 

[Charlot123]

This is absolutely possible. An Irie refused to speak with me several times so I can't speak definitively to her thinking on this. But yes, I am confident that is Mr. Takaba's feeling. However, we know that An Irie also has no compunction about disagreeing with the TMPD. When they said the Miyazawa house should be torn down as they have the home mapped with 3D models / a mountain of evidence in place, she immediately mobilised the press against this. She made it clear the house should stand, at least until the case is solved. She then appealed for information once again, pleading for the case to be solved. She also immediately sued Asahi TV when she got wind that they featured a profiler who said he thought the killer was either in the extended family or at least close to it. So, clearly, An Irie has no problems with making her own thoughts known on this case. She often says on Twitter how she feels about the press on Twitter (her feelings aren't positive). That was my assumption when she declined to speak with me / my podcast. But then she will often give interviews, assemble the media when she needs it. Honestly, I have no idea what her thinking is, I'm left only with speculation.

Here is an interview with An Irie. It would be interesting for someone knowing Japanese to view it, IMHO. I know the question that comes to my mind.

Relative of slain family fights to preserve their house in Tokyo | The Asahi Shimbun: Breaking News, Japan News and Analysis

It is hard to tell how an used to be in real life before the tragedy, so we have only post-tragedy to assess.

I am asking myself if Yasuko was of the same type. Could a strong, not a typical "yes-woman" incite someone's hatred in a parochial country where everyone adheres to strong societal mores? (BTW - the politeness of Japanese women is something well-known among foreigners, it might have something to do with the music of the language itself, so I wonder if a foreigner could have been even more incited by a random argument?)

Two - no offense, An is a writer herself. Her refusal to meet with you could be just this.

(Or, there is another way to look at it: what entities did An ever give interviews to? How big were they?)

 

[Incoherent]

Nothing much new to add from me, but I’ve been sleuthing in Japanese this morning (while also nursing a hangover) and came across this floor plan of the house labelled as ‘immediately after the incident’. I hadn’t seen this before.
You can see here the mess the killer left, as well as where his clothing was found in the living area. I thought this might be interesting for some people if it’s not been posted before (my bad if it has been). Zoom in to see everything clearly:



Also to add, the article mentions that the Miyazawa side was actually used as Yasuko’s cram school for about a year or so before it was moved to the other side, back from December 1990 to January 1992. So there were students of hers entering the house for at least a year it seems. I didn’t know this piece of info.

Sources here, sorry again it’s all in Japanese: 世田谷一家殺人事件 簡単解説 | これ知っておけばOK!（簡単にすぐ分かる!）

 

[Incoherent]

Here is an interview with An Irie. It would be interesting for someone knowing Japanese to view it, IMHO. I know the question that comes to my mind.

Relative of slain family fights to preserve their house in Tokyo | The Asahi Shimbun: Breaking News, Japan News and Analysis

In this interview she doesn’t say much. She talks about the kid’s height being recorded on the wall as they got older, and says how she sat at the dining table with them and talked to Niina about how she would be able to sit in a bigger chair soon as she was getting older. She is lamenting about the kids a lot. She also says she wants the public to see how hard working the family was, making do in such a small house. It is very sad.
I believe this was one of the first times she invited the press into the house to see it.

 

[Charlot123]

Nothing much new to add from me, but I’ve been sleuthing in Japanese this morning (while also nursing a hangover) and came across this floor plan of the house labelled as ‘immediately after the incident’. I hadn’t seen this before.
You can see here the mess the killer left, as well as where his clothing was found in the living area. I thought this might be interesting for some people if it’s not been posted before (my bad if it has been). Zoom in to see everything clearly:

View attachment 493874

Also to add, the article mentions that the Miyazawa side was actually used as Yasuko’s cram school for about a year or so before it was moved to the other side, back from December 1990 to January 1992. So there were students of hers entering the house for at least a year it seems. I didn’t know this piece of info.

Sources here, sorry again it’s all in Japanese: 世田谷一家殺人事件 簡単解説 | これ知っておけばOK!（簡単にすぐ分かる!）

The cram side is a question. I think An lived in GB with her husband for a while, and then her side was used for a cram school, by Yasuko and her mother.

 

[Incoherent]

The cram side is a question. I think A lived in GB with her husband for a while, and then her side was used for a cram school, by Yasuko and her mother.

Right, but a lot of speculation is about how the killer couldn’t have known the layout of the house or was not known to the family so hadn’t been inside it before the murder.
But if the Miyazawa side was also used as the cram school for a year, it means people did go inside that house. Students, siblings of students? Parents of students? Other various people possibly? It raises the possibility that the killer may known more than assumed about the place. All speculation on my part! Unless the article is incorrect.

 

[Incoherent]

In relation to the entry point supposedly being the bathroom window, here is a shot of the park behind the house in the year 2000 that shows the street lamps still being there.
It means that if the killer did enter this way, there was illumination on the path and likely reaching as far as the house too. He would’ve likely had light on him as he entered the house this way.

 

[femto]

Arigato, @femto. Thank you for your thoughts. And yes, I agree on the weirdness. I've had this case under my skin since 2010, I sometimes dream about it...

First, I'd like to thank you for the absolute amazing work you've done on this case and the amount of info you have gathered. As I said, I've always been fascinated by this case, but it wasn't exactly a popular discussion years ago in Western media and forums and there was no-one to talk to about it. Thankfully I see it getting more and more attention and it's because of the work people like you have done in bringing it to people's attention. So again - thank you

As alluded to in one of my recent comments, we don't actually know they were arguments with the skaters. A few things are often misunderstood about this situation. 1) The skatepark is not right outside the house. It's actually across the way. Of course, it's very possible a group of noisy teens would've been audible and perhaps annoying. But it wouldn't be the kind of unbearable noise that is assumed. 2) We know that the TMPD has chased down skaters connected to Soshigaya Park for the last 24 years. I spoke to quite a few, one of which features in my podcast. They were all fingerprinted to eliminate them from the case. Masafumi, the one interviewed on Faceless, made it clear that to him it didn't seem like a lead they necessarily believed in. Just one they were eliminating. 3) I've spoken to people who knew of the occasion when Mikio stepped outside and asked the skaters to keep it down. This person was adamant it only happened once and that he was reasonable about it. When Mikio said this, the skaters apologised and left. Now, we might wonder if this skater was fudging those events. But he was fingerprinted and eliminated from the case. He said: there was nobody in that group who would've given a second thought to a dad asking them to keep it down. 4)The clothing is not, in my opinion, appropriate for a skater. Every single skater I spoke to said the same thing. For one thing, he's wearing tennis shoes, not skater shoes. On your last point about the killer's maturity: we know for a fact the police are looking for a man who was 15-24 on the night of the murders. So, we can openly speculate about him being young or immature and I don't think that's much of a leap. But as for him leaving evidence everywhere as evidence of this. Maybe, or maybe he simply didn't care because he knew he wasn't coming back. Which leads on to...

1. Correct me if I'm wrong but looking on google maps in the earliest possible years, there's two grounds that can be used as skateparks. One to the side of the house and one directly behind it's back from where the killer came from. In the pictures from 2001 the area appears to be virtually the same. Kids playgrounds are often used for skating, so it's not out of the question for skaters to have used it.
2. While that is news to me, here's my thoughts - How many skaters have they chased down (obviously you wouldn't know), but it couldn't be that many. Furthermore, how do we know if this guy was a loner or part of a skater group? There's virtually no way to chase them down unless the area had CCTV which I'm pretty sure it didn't have. They might have eliminated the most active regulars in that park, but people who might have visited once or twice and weren't that known in the community - definitely not. Because for all intents and purposes they might have just been passing down. Tokyo is a huge city, the biggest in the world, there's way more than enough playgrounds for skaters to hang out.
3. My problem with this is that you assume skaters are one singular monolith. Just because the guy you spoke to has a different experience doesn't necessarily mean that Mikio might not have been in a bad mood and shouted another group down on a different occasion. After all, teen activity didn't just happen once in the park. I myself highly doubt all the skaters in that park knew each other, there might even have been lone skaters there, as well. It's hard to say. But even if we take this scenario, that Mikio never shouted them down and asked them politely to keep it quiet or leave, that can still trigger a psychopath. If one thing I've noticed reading these cases, is that some people can be triggered really easily by things you would never expect to make someone mad. I think it's wrong to be under the assumption that this guy was a 'normal' human being who has the same thought process as you and me.
4. I beg to differ on the clothing. When I was a teen I skated a little and it seems very appropriate for around the time when I was a kid, especially the bucket hat. Obviously the jacket would be too much, but it was winter in Tokyo. The style is definitely something a teen-twenties guy from that culture would wear. You argue about shoes, but skaters do wear tennis shoes often. it's not really out of the style - they're comfortable & easy to do flips with.

With respect, there are military connections and this is something I've written about ad nauseam. For one, there's sand from a US military base that a Japanese citizen does not have access to. The other type of sand is from around Mabori Beach, where US Yokosuka Base is located. The killer also had the ability to disappear without a trace and never be seen again. So, either he's sloppy and lucky in the house (which he is) or he's Jason Borne who can disappear from 24 years and live off the grid. He cannot, in my view, be both. The answer to that is: he has that sand because his father is in the USAF and was previously in California. He then returns to base where the TMPD cannot touch him. He then leaves Japan and never comes back. I know with absolute certainty that this is possible because, among other things, I suspect a particular man of these murders -- this is his exact background.

As for the killer being non-Japanese. We simply don't know. We only know anything about the killer's ethnicity because of Dr. M (I won't give him his full name as he recently declined to take part in any future podcast), the man who is quoted universally as saying the killer has a 1 in 4 chance of being Korean and a 1 in 14 chance of being Japanese. But this man, who is a respected figure in the world of Japanese DNA associations etc, analysed the killer's DNA. One of his colleagues then leaked his findings to the press. The TMPD asked for that information to be removed from Wikipedia. This request was denied by Wikipedia unless the TMPD could show them the information is false. So, all that to say, do we know the killer is non-Japanese? No, we don't. But working with the limited details that are out there and that are reliable, it seems like there's a good chance. Moreover, if he's Japanese, then how did he get on to Edwards USAF base? Is it possible he eluded the TMPD for 24 years living up a mountain somewhere? Sure, it's possible. Is it likely? To me, no.

As for his experience in killing, I don't take a view. Given his (probable) young age, I would say it's likely these were his first. Certainly in Japan. But equally, people make mistakes --even experienced ones. Sometimes you slip. Top 10 tennis plays serve double-faults. That he entered the house with a sushi knife that he ended up cutting himself with doesn't necessarily mean he can't have strangled his high school girlfriend to death etc.

But isn't Mabori Beach literally a skate park or in the very least an area that can be used as such by teens? You also argue that the killer disappeared just because he isn't caught, but I beg to differ with you. There's nothing to suggest he disappeared or vanished into thin air. He most likely left normally in the early hours of the morning, covering his hand and just went home. Nobody would really notice or pay attention to a fellow Japanese walking home in the darkness. Just because the police couldn't track him down doesn't mean he disappeared like Jack the Ripper. By all accounts he had all the time in the world as the bodies were discovered 10 hours later. Ever heard of a similar case of Namiko Takaba? The Japanese police had absolutely everything, same as here, even the blood prints leading to the killer's house and the kid's victim blatantly saying who it was 'a woman from the local store'. The killer still hasn't been caught and has vanished into 'thin air'. Frankly I think the Japanese police is thoroughly unexperienced in dealing with such crimes because the crime rate there is so low.

But I think you're ignoring the fact that there's plenty of Japanese people that have Korean DNA. There's a huge overlap between both populations for historical reasons and immigration reasons. This is no way means he is Korean, knows anything about Korea or has ever visited Korea. I also would say that you're putting too much credit in the sand information. While it is a vital piece of evidence, it can be very misleading. Since you're more knowledgeable than me on the subject, do we know for certain that this is from the airbase or the beach? How do you even determine that? And how do you determine the killer's bag didn't have the traces of sand already when he brought it?

As far as the killing goes, I think nothing in the crime suggests he had experience in murdering or military-like training. He came ill prepared, armed with just a bad knife (for killing people) in a very risky, incredibly narrow house. He started killing randomly and given all the evidence - he was in some danger himself. After the murder he is insanely sloppy, throws his clothes, leaves a mountain of evidence, stays at the crime scene for hours, does all kinds of weird things in no hurry. At any moment he could have been caught. You suggest he did so because he was planning to move out of Japan anyway, but so what? Even if he left Japan and the police actually tracked him by DNA and fingerprints, he'd still be extradited even if he went to China itself. Nobody would harbor a criminal just because they didn't like Japan. That's not a good explanation for him being so careless. I also find the notion of some random foreign guy attacking this house in the middle of nowhere in order to taste his first kill before leaving as far-fetched. These were not victims picked at from a night club or anything, the house is very hard to find and the killer went from a very specific angle in it.

If he's a random drifter, then he's one who can afford relatively expensive tennis shoes, a brand new jacket only released a few weeks before, a relatively expensive top, a good knife (around $50US in the year 2000), and he wears French aftershave. That to me doesn't sound like a drifter. RE: the evidence pointing to a skateboarder, I respectfully disagree. And, as I say, the TMPD has gone after them hard for 24 years and got zilch out of it. From the sounds of it, the detectives still investigating today don't believe this theory either. Final point, as for his motive. As I've said many times in this thread: it's of course possible the Miyazawa family did something to the killer / something he didn't like. Based on all my research, I take the view that it basically had nothing to do with them. That the killer carried his own rage and he levelled it at them.

Which is why I said I don't think he is a drifter or someone who randomly struck the house. I don't know what the Tokyo police have investigated with the skaters, but so far they haven't achieved much breakthrough in this case, so I'm a little doubtful of their work. And given that this is a killing that was 20 years ago, there's zero way to actually chase the skateboarder link unless DNA is matched or the killer (or someone close to him) comes forward.

I understand you're leaning on the military angle, but what in the crime scene suggests that? We have an emotional killer that struck a somewhat isolated house full of an entire family in an hour where most people are actually still awake. I find it hard to believe he had nothing to do with them. While it is indeed possible, he took a lot of risks in this endeavor. A random killer would be a lot more cautious with a victim he doesn't care about - the target would be a lone female in the middle of nowhere usually. But this is not the case here.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

In relation to the entry point supposedly being the bathroom window, here is a shot of the park behind the house in the year 2000 that shows the street lamps still being there.
It means that if the killer did enter this way, there was illumination on the path and likely reaching as far as the house too. He would’ve likely had light on him as he entered the house this way.
View attachment 493876

Thank you for posting these. This is why I keep stressing the importance of the kind of street lighting used in 2000.

Modern LED street lights will almost certainly light the entire area, but a year-2000-era sodium vapour lamp might not have spread its light much further than the path. Even with the lamp so close to the house, it's possible that the back of the house beyond the trees and the fence would have been surprisingly dark. All the killer would need is one well-placed area of shadow whether at the back of the house or the front, and they could enter unseen.

Sadly the lighting from 24 years ago isn't something we can easily replicate or check, but it could potentially be one of the most important factors.

 

[Incoherent]

Thank you for posting these. This is why I keep stressing the importance of the kind of street lighting used in 2000.

Modern LED street lights will almost certainly light the entire area, but a year-2000-era sodium vapour lamp might not have spread its light much further than the path. Even with the lamp so close to the house, it's possible that the back of the house beyond the trees and the fence would have been surprisingly dark. All the killer would need is one well-placed area of shadow whether at the back of the house or the front, and they could enter unseen.

Sadly the lighting from 24 years ago isn't something we can easily replicate or check, but it could potentially be one of the most important factors.

I can’t remember how many lamps there are since my last visit, so I may go again to see soon. I’m not very knowledgable about the types used 24 years ago, so it could be that the light didn’t extend to the window. However, the image I posted was from a Japanese site that was authored by someone also casting doubt on the entry point due to the light from the lamps in the park.

I believe the entry time was reported as somewhere between 10:40pm-11:30pm, so if he did indeed enter through the bathroom window he walked or rushed across a park lit up by street lamps and made it inside without being seen or heard by anyone in the immediate surroundings. Which is entirely possible.
But then again, I also don’t think he entered that way anymore either.

I wonder if the lamps in the park affected his decisions though, and perhaps he really didn’t enter or exit way after all.

 

[Janitor101]

First, I'd like to thank you for the absolute amazing work you've done on this case and the amount of info you have gathered. As I said, I've always been fascinated by this case, but it wasn't exactly a popular discussion years ago in Western media and forums and there was no-one to talk to about it. Thankfully I see it getting more and more attention and it's because of the work people like you have done in bringing it to people's attention. So again - thank you

1. Correct me if I'm wrong but looking on google maps in the earliest possible years, there's two grounds that can be used as skateparks. One to the side of the house and one directly behind it's back from where the killer came from. In the pictures from 2001 the area appears to be virtually the same. Kids playgrounds are often used for skating, so it's not out of the question for skaters to have used it.
2. While that is news to me, here's my thoughts - How many skaters have they chased down (obviously you wouldn't know), but it couldn't be that many. Furthermore, how do we know if this guy was a loner or part of a skater group? There's virtually no way to chase them down unless the area had CCTV which I'm pretty sure it didn't have. They might have eliminated the most active regulars in that park, but people who might have visited once or twice and weren't that known in the community - definitely not. Because for all intents and purposes they might have just been passing down. Tokyo is a huge city, the biggest in the world, there's way more than enough playgrounds for skaters to hang out.
3. My problem with this is that you assume skaters are one singular monolith. Just because the guy you spoke to has a different experience doesn't necessarily mean that Mikio might not have been in a bad mood and shouted another group down on a different occasion. After all, teen activity didn't just happen once in the park. I myself highly doubt all the skaters in that park knew each other, there might even have been lone skaters there, as well. It's hard to say. But even if we take this scenario, that Mikio never shouted them down and asked them politely to keep it quiet or leave, that can still trigger a psychopath. If one thing I've noticed reading these cases, is that some people can be triggered really easily by things you would never expect to make someone mad. I think it's wrong to be under the assumption that this guy was a 'normal' human being who has the same thought process as you and me.
4. I beg to differ on the clothing. When I was a teen I skated a little and it seems very appropriate for around the time when I was a kid, especially the bucket hat. Obviously the jacket would be too much, but it was winter in Tokyo. The style is definitely something a teen-twenties guy from that culture would wear. You argue about shoes, but skaters do wear tennis shoes often. it's not really out of the style - they're comfortable & easy to do flips with.


But isn't Mabori Beach literally a skate park or in the very least an area that can be used as such by teens? You also argue that the killer disappeared just because he isn't caught, but I beg to differ with you. There's nothing to suggest he disappeared or vanished into thin air. He most likely left normally in the early hours of the morning, covering his hand and just went home. Nobody would really notice or pay attention to a fellow Japanese walking home in the darkness. Just because the police couldn't track him down doesn't mean he disappeared like Jack the Ripper. By all accounts he had all the time in the world as the bodies were discovered 10 hours later. Ever heard of a similar case of Namiko Takaba? The Japanese police had absolutely everything, same as here, even the blood prints leading to the killer's house and the kid's victim blatantly saying who it was 'a woman from the local store'. The killer still hasn't been caught and has vanished into 'thin air'. Frankly I think the Japanese police is thoroughly unexperienced in dealing with such crimes because the crime rate there is so low.

But I think you're ignoring the fact that there's plenty of Japanese people that have Korean DNA. There's a huge overlap between both populations for historical reasons and immigration reasons. This is no way means he is Korean, knows anything about Korea or has ever visited Korea. I also would say that you're putting too much credit in the sand information. While it is a vital piece of evidence, it can be very misleading. Since you're more knowledgeable than me on the subject, do we know for certain that this is from the airbase or the beach? How do you even determine that? And how do you determine the killer's bag didn't have the traces of sand already when he brought it?

As far as the killing goes, I think nothing in the crime suggests he had experience in murdering or military-like training. He came ill prepared, armed with just a bad knife (for killing people) in a very risky, incredibly narrow house. He started killing randomly and given all the evidence - he was in some danger himself. After the murder he is insanely sloppy, throws his clothes, leaves a mountain of evidence, stays at the crime scene for hours, does all kinds of weird things in no hurry. At any moment he could have been caught. You suggest he did so because he was planning to move out of Japan anyway, but so what? Even if he left Japan and the police actually tracked him by DNA and fingerprints, he'd still be extradited even if he went to China itself. Nobody would harbor a criminal just because they didn't like Japan. That's not a good explanation for him being so careless. I also find the notion of some random foreign guy attacking this house in the middle of nowhere in order to taste his first kill before leaving as far-fetched. These were not victims picked at from a night club or anything, the house is very hard to find and the killer went from a very specific angle in it.


Which is why I said I don't think he is a drifter or someone who randomly struck the house. I don't know what the Tokyo police have investigated with the skaters, but so far they haven't achieved much breakthrough in this case, so I'm a little doubtful of their work. And given that this is a killing that was 20 years ago, there's zero way to actually chase the skateboarder link unless DNA is matched or the killer (or someone close to him) comes forward.

I understand you're leaning on the military angle, but what in the crime scene suggests that? We have an emotional killer that struck a somewhat isolated house full of an entire family in an hour where most people are actually still awake. I find it hard to believe he had nothing to do with them. While it is indeed possible, he took a lot of risks in this endeavor. A random killer would be a lot more cautious with a victim he doesn't care about - the target would be a lone female in the middle of nowhere usually.

What incredible luck this guy had to plop right down into an uninhabited room and take out the first victim who couldn't put up a struggle. Do you think he had been in the house before?

 

[Janitor101]

First, I'd like to thank you for the absolute amazing work you've done on this case and the amount of info you have gathered. As I said, I've always been fascinated by this case, but it wasn't exactly a popular discussion years ago in Western media and forums and there was no-one to talk to about it. Thankfully I see it getting more and more attention and it's because of the work people like you have done in bringing it to people's attention. So again - thank you

1. Correct me if I'm wrong but looking on google maps in the earliest possible years, there's two grounds that can be used as skateparks. One to the side of the house and one directly behind it's back from where the killer came from. In the pictures from 2001 the area appears to be virtually the same. Kids playgrounds are often used for skating, so it's not out of the question for skaters to have used it.
2. While that is news to me, here's my thoughts - How many skaters have they chased down (obviously you wouldn't know), but it couldn't be that many. Furthermore, how do we know if this guy was a loner or part of a skater group? There's virtually no way to chase them down unless the area had CCTV which I'm pretty sure it didn't have. They might have eliminated the most active regulars in that park, but people who might have visited once or twice and weren't that known in the community - definitely not. Because for all intents and purposes they might have just been passing down. Tokyo is a huge city, the biggest in the world, there's way more than enough playgrounds for skaters to hang out.
3. My problem with this is that you assume skaters are one singular monolith. Just because the guy you spoke to has a different experience doesn't necessarily mean that Mikio might not have been in a bad mood and shouted another group down on a different occasion. After all, teen activity didn't just happen once in the park. I myself highly doubt all the skaters in that park knew each other, there might even have been lone skaters there, as well. It's hard to say. But even if we take this scenario, that Mikio never shouted them down and asked them politely to keep it quiet or leave, that can still trigger a psychopath. If one thing I've noticed reading these cases, is that some people can be triggered really easily by things you would never expect to make someone mad. I think it's wrong to be under the assumption that this guy was a 'normal' human being who has the same thought process as you and me.
4. I beg to differ on the clothing. When I was a teen I skated a little and it seems very appropriate for around the time when I was a kid, especially the bucket hat. Obviously the jacket would be too much, but it was winter in Tokyo. The style is definitely something a teen-twenties guy from that culture would wear. You argue about shoes, but skaters do wear tennis shoes often. it's not really out of the style - they're comfortable & easy to do flips with.


But isn't Mabori Beach literally a skate park or in the very least an area that can be used as such by teens? You also argue that the killer disappeared just because he isn't caught, but I beg to differ with you. There's nothing to suggest he disappeared or vanished into thin air. He most likely left normally in the early hours of the morning, covering his hand and just went home. Nobody would really notice or pay attention to a fellow Japanese walking home in the darkness. Just because the police couldn't track him down doesn't mean he disappeared like Jack the Ripper. By all accounts he had all the time in the world as the bodies were discovered 10 hours later. Ever heard of a similar case of Namiko Takaba? The Japanese police had absolutely everything, same as here, even the blood prints leading to the killer's house and the kid's victim blatantly saying who it was 'a woman from the local store'. The killer still hasn't been caught and has vanished into 'thin air'. Frankly I think the Japanese police is thoroughly unexperienced in dealing with such crimes because the crime rate there is so low.

But I think you're ignoring the fact that there's plenty of Japanese people that have Korean DNA. There's a huge overlap between both populations for historical reasons and immigration reasons. This is no way means he is Korean, knows anything about Korea or has ever visited Korea. I also would say that you're putting too much credit in the sand information. While it is a vital piece of evidence, it can be very misleading. Since you're more knowledgeable than me on the subject, do we know for certain that this is from the airbase or the beach? How do you even determine that? And how do you determine the killer's bag didn't have the traces of sand already when he brought it?

As far as the killing goes, I think nothing in the crime suggests he had experience in murdering or military-like training. He came ill prepared, armed with just a bad knife (for killing people) in a very risky, incredibly narrow house. He started killing randomly and given all the evidence - he was in some danger himself. After the murder he is insanely sloppy, throws his clothes, leaves a mountain of evidence, stays at the crime scene for hours, does all kinds of weird things in no hurry. At any moment he could have been caught. You suggest he did so because he was planning to move out of Japan anyway, but so what? Even if he left Japan and the police actually tracked him by DNA and fingerprints, he'd still be extradited even if he went to China itself. Nobody would harbor a criminal just because they didn't like Japan. That's not a good explanation for him being so careless. I also find the notion of some random foreign guy attacking this house in the middle of nowhere in order to taste his first kill before leaving as far-fetched. These were not victims picked at from a night club or anything, the house is very hard to find and the killer went from a very specific angle in it.


Which is why I said I don't think he is a drifter or someone who randomly struck the house. I don't know what the Tokyo police have investigated with the skaters, but so far they haven't achieved much breakthrough in this case, so I'm a little doubtful of their work. And given that this is a killing that was 20 years ago, there's zero way to actually chase the skateboarder link unless DNA is matched or the killer (or someone close to him) comes forward.

I understand you're leaning on the military angle, but what in the crime scene suggests that? We have an emotional killer that struck a somewhat isolated house full of an entire family in an hour where most people are actually still awake. I find it hard to believe he had nothing to do with them. While it is indeed possible, he took a lot of risks in this endeavor. A random killer would be a lot more cautious with a victim he doesn't care about - the target would be a lone female in the middle of nowhere usually. But this is not the case here.

Do you think he had been in the house before? Maybe a cable guy, repairman/handyman?

 

[FacelessPodcast]

First, I'd like to thank you for the absolute amazing work you've done on this case and the amount of info you have gathered. As I said, I've always been fascinated by this case, but it wasn't exactly a popular discussion years ago in Western media and forums and there was no-one to talk to about it. Thankfully I see it getting more and more attention and it's because of the work people like you have done in bringing it to people's attention. So again - thank you

Much appreciated, @femto. As you say, there is such a dearth of English-language reporting on this case. And 99.9% of what is out there is a copy of a copy of a flawed / poorly-translated original. Even some of the major podcast titles covering these murders are filled with mistakes (due to this very reason). So yes, it was well overdue that a long-form podcast on this case was made. I'm glad people found FACELESS informative and I'm grateful for your words.

1. Correct me if I'm wrong but looking on google maps in the earliest possible years, there's two grounds that can be used as skateparks. One to the side of the house and one directly behind it's back from where the killer came from. In the pictures from 2001 the area appears to be virtually the same. Kids playgrounds are often used for skating, so it's not out of the question for skaters to have used it.

I appreciate your thoughts on this, even if we disagree on a lot. You raise many good points and I'll do my best to answer each one. You'll see in my responses, I'll raise a lot of questions. To be clear, they're rhetorical. No need to reply. At any rate, as I'm facing a deadline, even if you had further responses, it's unlikely I'll have further comment for you on this.

The skatepark is across from the house. The playground is for kids which is directly behind it. Could you use that for skating? I suppose so but that's something I've never seen on any of the occasions I went there / never heard of in the conversations I've had. The first image below is of the skatepark. The second is its relation to the Miyazawa home:



You can see the house to the left. I've seen skaters/cyclists etc using that whole open space. The layout has changed down the years but all the skaters I spoke to said they would bring their own equipment to create their lines etc. Back in 2000, skating was generally frowned on in Japan and, short of going guerilla-style through the streets, spots like these were cherished. The playground directly behind the house I believe you're referring to is the Choo-Choo Park. So yeah, I can't say that skaters never used it to skate. But everyone I spoke to was referring to the space in the pictures. Guess I don't see much point using the playground when there's a dedicated space a few steps away? It's irrelevant, either way.

2. While that is news to me, here's my thoughts - How many skaters have they chased down (obviously you wouldn't know), but it couldn't be that many. Furthermore, how do we know if this guy was a loner or part of a skater group? There's virtually no way to chase them down unless the area had CCTV which I'm pretty sure it didn't have. They might have eliminated the most active regulars in that park, but people who might have visited once or twice and weren't that known in the community - definitely not. Because for all intents and purposes they might have just been passing down. Tokyo is a huge city, the biggest in the world, there's way more than enough playgrounds for skaters to hang out.

"It couldn't be that many."

Why not? Based on what? With all respect, I believe you're wrong. Obviously, I can't tell you the total figure of skaters the TMPD have questioned. But I can tell you that I've spoken to a number of them that were interviewed and they told me the same story: the detectives wanted only two things. 1) their fingerprints to eliminate them. 2) Names, names, names. Detectives came with print-outs from skating videos and skate magazines, they came with long lists. Do you know X, do you know Y, tell us where we can we find Z. So, clearly, it could be that many.

To date, the TMPD has fingerprinted over 1 million men. They've had 280,000 personnel on this case in the last 24 years. Why couldn't they have chased down many skaters? Why not thousands, if they felt like it? The TMPD is the largest and, as I understand it, best-funded metro police force on earth. What conceivable reason could there be for them NOT chasing down skaters? Tokyo being big or there being other skate parks doesn't seem like a factor to me. Of course, I'm not saying they interviewed every skater in Tokyo. But I strongly and respectfully disagree with "couldn't be that many."

3. My problem with this is that you assume skaters are one singular monolith.

No, I do not. I am relating what the ones who I spoke to told me. If I gave the impression that I was speaking for all human skaters, I phrased it poorly. I would like to think I am not in the habit of speaking about people as monoliths.

Just because the guy you spoke to has a different experience doesn't necessarily mean that Mikio might not have been in a bad mood and shouted another group down on a different occasion. After all, teen activity didn't just happen once in the park. I myself highly doubt all the skaters in that park knew each other, there might even have been lone skaters there, as well. It's hard to say. But even if we take this scenario, that Mikio never shouted them down and asked them politely to keep it quiet or leave, that can still trigger a psychopath.

Obviously I am not saying Mikio could never have been in a bad mood. As I have said many times, we hear different things about him. Obviously I am not suggesting I am able to vouch for every single day in his life. What I am trying to relate, perhaps poorly, is the testimony of the skaters who used that park on a frequent basis in the 90s/2000. Skaters who were interviewed by the TMPD. They referred to the Mikio incident as singular. Maybe they were lying to me? But, as we know the TMPD fingerprinted them, clearly none were responsible for the murders. I would hope you would give me enough credit to assume that I am not claiming absolute certainty on events 24 years ago. I am talking about what I have been able to ascertain. Clearly, the possibility of Mikio saying the wrong thing to the wrong person is still on the table.

If one thing I've noticed reading these cases, is that some people can be triggered really easily by things you would never expect to make someone mad. I think it's wrong to be under the assumption that this guy was a 'normal' human being who has the same thought process as you and me.

Sure. Where do I assume the killer is normal? Given that he murdered four human beings for no immediately obvious reason, I think the word "normal" can be quite comfortably discounted here.

4. I beg to differ on the clothing. When I was a teen I skated a little and it seems very appropriate for around the time when I was a kid, especially the bucket hat. Obviously the jacket would be too much, but it was winter in Tokyo. The style is definitely something a teen-twenties guy from that culture would wear. You argue about shoes, but skaters do wear tennis shoes often. it's not really out of the style - they're comfortable & easy to do flips with.

Your view on these clothes are as valid as anyone else's. You aren't the first person to view them as in-line (see what I did there) with the clothes of a skater. Though I think you are the first to take this view that has said they skated too? I can't recall. But I skated in my youth, too. Personally, from the very first time I saw those clothes, it felt wrong that a skater label was applied. JMO, of course. Then again, he's wearing tennis shoes and there's a tennis court right there. Why can't he be a tennis player? People wear tennis shoes to cycle around. Why couldn't he be a cyclist etc? In the end, this goes nowhere. I can only repeat what every single person on the scene in Soshigaya Park in the year 2000 I spoke to told me -- those aren't skater clothes. Sometimes, I asked them directly. Many times they gave me this opinion unprompted. Of course, they could be wrong. But seeing as they were there 24 years ago, I'm inclined to take their view on board.

Short of that, we're left with likelihood. Is it likely he had just been skateboarding before the murders? Is it likely he decided on a whim to murder the occupants of that house while on the half-pipe? Or is it more likely he would choose his clothes appropriately to hide his identity rather than adhering to 'skater style'? We know he covered his face with a handkerchief and wore a low-brimmed hat. If anything at all, this tells me he didn't want to be seen / recognised.

But isn't Mabori Beach literally a skate park or in the very least an area that can be used as such by teens?

Mabori Beach is not literally a skate park, no. It's an area of coastline in Yokosuka where there happens to be a US naval base -- coincidentally, or not. But I also don't know if there was a skate park there in the year 2000.

You also argue that the killer disappeared just because he isn't caught, but I beg to differ with you. There's nothing to suggest he disappeared or vanished into thin air.

I am not suggesting he vanished into thin air, I am suggesting there is a chance he left the country. And I do not say this simply because he wasn't caught. Not all crimes are solved in Japan. Obviously, that doesn't mean that every single criminal fled the country. I have stated by reasons for believing he left Japan so many times, you'll forgive me for not repeating myself. It's all there up-thread.

He most likely left normally in the early hours of the morning, covering his hand and just went home. Nobody would really notice or pay attention to a fellow Japanese walking home in the darkness. Just because the police couldn't track him down doesn't mean he disappeared like Jack the Ripper.

Let's not get into Jack the Ripper because I have my own views on that and I don't believe he disappeared

We know the killer left in the early in the morning, yes. I too think he went home, covering his hand. Where else would he have realistically gone? However, the idea that a witness wouldn't pay attention to someone walking home bleeding due to them being Japanese - am I understanding that correctly? If so, I disagree. You asked if I'm aware of the Namiko Takaba case. Yes, I've actually just made a thread on it. In that case, there is no suggestion the killer isn't Japanese. Yet she was also bleeding and seen by witnesses. And I'm not wholly sure where your point about the police not tracking him down meaning he didn't disappear like JtR leads. Do you mean the TMPD overlooked him? Or he's living in plain sight? At any rate, we disagree. I don't say it's impossible he slipped past them. Only that for me it's more likely he left. End of.

By all accounts he had all the time in the world as the bodies were discovered 10 hours later. Ever heard of a similar case of Namiko Takaba? The Japanese police had absolutely everything, same as here, even the blood prints leading to the killer's house and the kid's victim blatantly saying who it was 'a woman from the local store'. The killer still hasn't been caught and has vanished into 'thin air'. Frankly I think the Japanese police is thoroughly unexperienced in dealing with such crimes because the crime rate there is so low.

I'll accept your point about the TMPD Homicide detectives having less experience compared to US or European murder detectives -- on the numbers alone. And I too see the parallels between the Miyazaws and Namiko Takaba (as per my thread). But if we are going to get into cases where the police have lots of evidence but fail to find a murderer, then we are going to be jumping all over the Atlas.

The homicide rate in Japan is, as you say, incredible low. You are statistically more likely to die taking a selfie in Japan than you are to be murdered. And the conviction rate there is 99.99999%. Now there are problems with the judicial system in Japan as anyone with a passing knowledge will know. But you could also spin these facts as the TMPD being far, far superior, therefore, to any other police force in the world. I do not. I think this would be a gross simplification.

I have openly spoken against the TMPD in some regards. I have also praised them in many others. My knowledge of their work is limited but, from what I have seen, I think you're characterisation is unfair. My view is that they are incredibly hard-working and, on the whole, deeply respectful. I also reject the view that any kind of comparative inexperience in the TMPD explains the lack of a result in this case. That's just my personal view. You have yours.

As for the Nagoya Police, I have zero experience so I take no view. Nagoya Police and the TMPD are two separate forces -- I have been guilty in the past of saying or repeating the phrase "Japanese police". I mention this seeing as you don't like people so speak in monoliths

But I think you're ignoring the fact that there's plenty of Japanese people that have Korean DNA. There's a huge overlap between both populations for historical reasons and immigration reasons.

Thank you for explaining this to me. Respectfully, I am not ignoring it. But as I say, I don't know what the killer's DNA make up is. Nor do you. However, Dr. M has a fair idea seeing as he analysed it and his opinions are out there. He, too, will be aware of Japan's history. Is he wrong? I don't know, it's possible. As I say --once again-- I am going off only what is known so far. I'm not going to repeat my points above but clearly, there is a chance the killer was foreign. There is a chance he was Japanese. Dr. M, the only person to be quoted on this subject who's actually seen the killer's DNA, says the former is more likely than the latter. I'll go with it until better information comes to light.

This is no way means he is Korean, knows anything about Korea or has ever visited Korea.

Yes. There is a chance the killer is ethnically Korean (yes, I'm aware there is some genetic overlap). But the chance of him being from, or having ever visited, Korea is essentially zero. We know this thanks to the words of the Chief and his collaboration with the Korean authorities. This has been ruled out. This in no way infringes on my theory the killer is an American who left Japan shortly after the murders.

I also would say that you're putting too much credit in the sand information. While it is a vital piece of evidence, it can be very misleading.

Why am I putting too much credit in it? How can it be vital but also too much credit be put in it? Frankly, I have answered this so many times. I am yet to see one single, solitary solid reason as to why this isn't important. What other clue in this case tells us where the killer was definitively before the murders? Not only that, it tells us he was able to access a closed world. Not open to Japanese, or casual tourists, or even most American citizens. I would like to hear how exactly I have been misled by this.

In the event that more information comes to light and it turns out the sand is not from Edwards, I will change my mind accordingly. My views must change as the evidence does.

Since you're more knowledgeable than me on the subject, do we know for certain that this is from the airbase or the beach? How do you even determine that? And how do you determine the killer's bag didn't have the traces of sand already when he brought it?

I will not get into detail on this as I was told certain things off the record. But yes, we know one sand was from Edwards USAF base in California, the other was from the region around Mabori Beach. I've spoken many times about Lorna Dawson and IDing soil / sand. If you listened to FACELESS, you'll know what I'm referring to.

The bag was manufactured in Osaka. It had no DNA or fingerprints belonging to anyone but the killer. So, (as I've said on this same page of the thread I'm pretty sure), if he bought it from someone else or stole it, he cleaned it in such a way as to remove all forensic traces of a previous owner but somehow still leave sand in the bag. Perhaps this is somehow possible. Again, on likelihood, to me, it is not. As for the idea that the bag came brand-new with sand in it from Mabori and a US military base on the other side of world : I cannot say it's impossible. I just don't see how.

As far as the killing goes, I think nothing in the crime suggests he had experience in murdering or military-like training. He came ill prepared, armed with just a bad knife (for killing people) in a very risky, incredibly narrow house. He started killing randomly and given all the evidence - he was in some danger himself.

I do not say I think he had military training or experience in killing. But how do you know he started killing randomly?

After the murder he is insanely sloppy, throws his clothes, leaves a mountain of evidence, stays at the crime scene for hours, does all kinds of weird things in no hurry. At any moment he could have been caught. You suggest he did so because he was planning to move out of Japan anyway, but so what?

"So what?" Because perhaps he was thinking he had already bled all over the crime scene and now his fingerprints are there too. What difference would all the rest of the evidence make?

I am not saying this was smart. I am saying it's possibly what his thinking was. You not thinking it's a good explanation doesn't mean it isn't the explanation.

Even if he left Japan and the police actually tracked him by DNA and fingerprints, he'd still be extradited even if he went to China itself. Nobody would harbor a criminal just because they didn't like Japan. That's not a good explanation for him being so careless.

What the TMPD would do with his DNA / fingerprints if the killer has no criminal record in -let's say- the USA? As far as I know, the TMPD has never spoken with US authorities, though the killer's fingerprints are lodged with Interpol. However, when I spoke to Interpol, I was told: we cannot comment on a case about which we have no information. So, I leave you to decide what has happened there.

And where do I suggest that a country would harbour a murderer because they don't like Japan? Again, I am not saying that his thought process is good or logical. His carelessness doesn't have to make sense to you or me or anyone else.

I also find the notion of some random foreign guy attacking this house in the middle of nowhere in order to taste his first kill before leaving as far-fetched.

With respect, that's neither here nor there. Very little in this case is ordinary or quotidian. If it were, the killer would already be hanged by now. I'm unsure of your best theory. I've come to my own. It's led to a person of interest who is exactly the very thing you say you find far-fetched. So, again, while you may not find it credible. I do. That's fine.

Though, I must quibble with your characterisation of the house being in the middle of nowhere. It is not.

These were not victims picked at from a night club or anything, the house is very hard to find and the killer went from a very specific angle in it.

Why is the house very hard to find?

Which is why I said I don't think he is a drifter or someone who randomly struck the house.

Yes, I was actually agreeing with you on this point.

I don't know what the Tokyo police have investigated with the skaters, but so far they haven't achieved much breakthrough in this case, so I'm a little doubtful of their work.

Again, that's your view. And there areas in which I disagree with them too. But if your argument is that because they haven't solved the case, therefore they are inexperienced and their work deserves to be doubted: I strongly disagree. This is simplistic, in my view, bordering on disrespectful. Though perhaps I've misunderstood your characterisation.

And given that this is a killing that was 20 years ago, there's zero way to actually chase the skateboarder link unless DNA is matched or the killer (or someone close to him) comes forward.

I really don't follow this. Because it happened 24 years ago, they can't chase the skater link? Why?

At any rate, we do know that they are chasing it based on everything stated above.

I understand you're leaning on the military angle, but what in the crime scene suggests that?

Your post is lengthy and, again, I appreciate your thoughts. But from here on in, anything that I've answered many, many times, I'm going to simply refer you back to my earlier answers.

With respect, they are up-thread time and again. You are free to look them up if you wish!

We have an emotional killer that struck a somewhat isolated house full of an entire family in an hour where most people are actually still awake. I find it hard to believe he had nothing to do with them.

Fair point, sure. It's been 24 years and if you accept that 280,000 TMPD personnel have gone over this case frontways and backways then perhaps you'll have an explanation for why some personal connection with the killer and the family has been overlooked? I'm yet to hear one. Of course, it's possible he knew them. I just think it's unlikely given what we know.

While it is indeed possible, he took a lot of risks in this endeavor. A random killer would be a lot more cautious with a victim he doesn't care about - the target would be a lone female in the middle of nowhere usually. But this is not the case here.

Why would a random killer be more or less cautious? Also, are random killers fine to be spoken of in monoliths? Once again, thank you for your ideas @femto. Those are mine. I'll wrap this up here.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Here is an interview with An Irie. It would be interesting for someone knowing Japanese to view it, IMHO. I know the question that comes to my mind.

Part of that interview is translated in the opening episode of FACELESS. She talks about the children mainly, their height chart, about her desire for the public to understand how the Miyazawas lived, and I think she goes on to reiterate her point about the house not being torn down. She talks about Niina's homework, then one of the journalists asks about the stickers on the intercom phone which prompts her to talk about Niina.

Relative of slain family fights to preserve their house in Tokyo | The Asahi Shimbun: Breaking News, Japan News and Analysis

It is hard to tell how an used to be in real life before the tragedy, so we have only post-tragedy to assess.

I am asking myself if Yasuko was of the same type. Could a strong, not a typical "yes-woman" incite someone's hatred in a parochial country where everyone adheres to strong societal mores? (BTW - the politeness of Japanese women is something well-known among foreigners, it might have something to do with the music of the language itself, so I wonder if a foreigner could have been even more incited by a random argument?)

Sadly, Setsuko would say very little about that side of the family. An obviously said nothing to me about Yasuko. But she speaks about her sister in various interviews. In my own limited experience, the idea that Japanese women are all subservient geishas is deeply wrong. As you say, it's very possible Yasuko wouldn't hesitate to call someone out for something. We just don't know. In the end, there are 127 million people in Japan. There will be all sorts.

Two - no offense, An is a writer herself. Her refusal to meet with you could be just this.

None taken. I don't think she knows the first thing about me, or cares. Her reasoning for say no was oblique and never clear. But from what she said, it was a general distaste for the media. I wrote her a long letter outlining the fact that I did not want to eroticise or fetishise her tragedy in any way whatsoever, I offered her full control of the final audio. She again rejected it out of hand. I don't think my written work was a factor.

(Or, there is another way to look at it: what entities did An ever give interviews to? How big were they?)

From what I can gather, they are more interviews of her versus actually probing the murders. I've seen her speak about her family a lot. I've never seen her go into great detail about that night or about the murders themselves. That's just me, very possible she does and I've just missed it.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Nothing much new to add from me, but I’ve been sleuthing in Japanese this morning (while also nursing a hangover) and came across this floor plan of the house labelled as ‘immediately after the incident’. I hadn’t seen this before.
You can see here the mess the killer left, as well as where his clothing was found in the living area. I thought this might be interesting for some people if it’s not been posted before (my bad if it has been). Zoom in to see everything clearly:

View attachment 493874

Also to add, the article mentions that the Miyazawa side was actually used as Yasuko’s cram school for about a year or so before it was moved to the other side, back from December 1990 to January 1992. So there were students of hers entering the house for at least a year it seems. I didn’t know this piece of info.

Sources here, sorry again it’s all in Japanese: 世田谷一家殺人事件 簡単解説 | これ知っておけばOK!（簡単にすぐ分かる!）

Great post here. Can anyone with better eyesight than me make out where the money on the computer desk was? Also, any idea what that yellow circle is? As per early photos in this thread, you can see that he leaves his clothes haphazardly / doesn't fold them neatly. One query. Was the jacket definitely there in the front room? If so, it wasn't found covering the body of Yasuko? Because that detail always puzzled me but it would make sense for him to have taken it off with the rest of his clothes in the same place.

RE: the students. This is interesting information but I'm not sure it moves the needle for me. I still think the police would have looked at her students hard given their view that the killer was young.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

In relation to the entry point supposedly being the bathroom window, here is a shot of the park behind the house in the year 2000 that shows the street lamps still being there.
It means that if the killer did enter this way, there was illumination on the path and likely reaching as far as the house too. He would’ve likely had light on him as he entered the house this way.
View attachment 493876

Yes, I'm not sure how bright those lamps were in the year 2000. But assuming they gave the killer any pause whatsoever, it only strengthens my view he used the front balcony above the car. Also, the noise the reconstruction demonstrated would have been necessary for the killer to make to get into that second-floor bathroom window.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

I've enlarged the house plan @Incoherent posted. It's too big for Websleuths to host it so I've linked it from a third-party image hosting site. I'm not sure anything is much clearer but maybe it will help:



Re: The balcony, I wish someone had recreated that in the same way they recreated the bathroom window. The balcony is now very rusty and rickety, but even 24 years ago I get the impression it might have been more decorative than truly functional? I suspect you would have heard noises, banging and clanging, no matter which entry point was used. It seems like the construction of the house meant it was just a noisy house altogether, and it's one of those things that makes this case even more puzzling.