Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #179

[Cyber sleuth]

Imagine, smart Libby managed it to lay down herself onto her own phone after she got undressed. Would mean, she died at that exact spot and wasn't moved by BG. Though my thoughts in 2017 were, that BG had to know, she had a phone, and he looked at her phone at some point, even viewed the video. Maybe he considered himself unidentifiable, and the rest was just nature and Abby in his eyes.

He had to know she had the phone. He was as aware of they were using it and distracted by it. I don’t think he knew he had been recorded or he would have destroyed it. He would have never come forward before the images were released. ( as I suspect he did).
JMO

 

[layer]

He would have never come forward before the images were released. ( as I suspect he did).

Heads you win, tails I lose. If RA came forward after the images were released it could equally be seen as "he came forward because he figured he would be recognized so he wanted to get ahead of it."

 

[layer]

Just posting this pic of RA to remind us of his reddish/brown and gray hair that has been referred to by witness(es).

Still looking for the 2017 photos of him with poofy hair, eyes that are definitely not blue, and no facial hair.

 

[susiQ]

Still looking for the 2017 photos of him with poofy hair, eyes that are definitely not blue, and no facial hair.

I’d give up on that endeavour because they just do NOT exist. Whoever that young sketch is, it isn’t RA. JMO

 

[mrjitty]

Cara Wieneke (RA's appellate attorney of SCOIN / Mandamus fame), confirms that RA's observed treatment at Wabash is actually the same as her own client she visited. To me this treatment for attorney access is outrageous, but it seems RA is not being singled out according to Wieneke

https://twitter.com/x/status/1775820361566732478

 

[girlhasnoname]

He had to know she had the phone. He was as aware of they were using it and distracted by it. I don’t think he knew he had been recorded or he would have destroyed it. He would have never come forward before the images were released. ( as I suspect he did).
JMO

RA = BG = Killer outsmarted in the end by Libby herself. It shouldn't have been so, but her video helped bring him down. What a smart, courageous young girl.

I agree RA knew there was a phone, but as you said, probably never suspected he was being filmed. When it started to ring when Libby's Dad began looking for her, I'm sure he thought the smartest thing to do would be to leave it and get the heck of there ASAP.

JMO

 

[FromGermany1]

Cara Wieneke (RA's appellate attorney of SCOIN / Mandamus fame), confirms that RA's observed treatment at Wabash is actually the same as her own client she visited. To me this treatment for attorney access is outrageous, but it seems RA is not being singled out according to Wieneke

https://twitter.com/x/status/1775820361566732478

#RichardAllen is not being treated uniquely there. He's just being treated like every other convicted prisoner who is doing a lengthy sentence for a violent crime and who somehow misbehaved, requiring him to be placed in segregation.
-.-.-
bbm
RA isn't convicted yet, but did he misbehave like the others?

 

[Pyrite]

#RichardAllen is not being treated uniquely there. He's just being treated like every other convicted prisoner who is doing a lengthy sentence for a violent crime and who somehow misbehaved, requiring him to be placed in segregation.
-.-.-
bbm
RA isn't convicted yet, but did he misbehave like the others?

Except RA isn’t a convicted prisoner. He’s an accused suspect. In as far as I know, 99 percent if not higher people in his same position would be help in Jail, not prison. I’ve never heard of an unconvinced person being held in prison.

 

[layer]

Except RA isn’t a convicted prisoner. He’s an accused suspect. In as far as I know, 99 percent if not higher people in his same position would be help in Jail, not prison. I’ve never heard of an unconvinced person being held in prison.

Someone please correct me, but I believe the story is that he is there for his own protection, being a more secured location than a jailhouse.

 

[Salah11]

View attachment 494927
Photo by: Cox, Katie - WRTV

Just posting this pic of RA to remind us of his reddish/brown and gray hair that has been referred to by witness(es). He also appears much younger here with that full round face to me. Now trim the goatee back to the way he wore it before the murders and it makes all the difference in the world. JMO

Yep I am fat faced as well and it takes decades off. He can easily pass for a decade younger than he is. Probably more when you look at him at a quick glance.

IMO

 

[Emma Peel]

There's a reason the D is not blocking the P from obtaining the mental health records (given they'd likely be successful blocking). Another curiosity for the "Questions to be Resolved by Trial" growing list ...

 

[TL4S]

Someone please correct me, but I believe the story is that he is there for his own protection, being a more secured location than a jailhouse.

IMOO, there are two sides to the coin here. If there is a legitimate concern for safety (and I believe there likely was/is), then fine if the Carroll County jail was not the place for him. At the hearing, there was another county jail (I'm sorry I can't recall which one), where they said even though they didn't want him there, they could take him. Instead of moving him there, the focus became that he wasn't treated any differently than any other prisoner in prison, so he can stay put. Except, that argument is comparing his treatment to that of other convicted felons, not other in-custody defendants. Regardless, it was decided to keep him within the IDOC, moving between prisons, all the while, being housed in a situation where he cannot have decent conferencing with his attorneys about his case. Why couldn't he have been placed in the county jail who said they could take him and provided the opportunity to not have to defend himself through a meal tray slot? Guilt or innocence is not a factor in this.

Then, while the world talks about the D team, accusing them of purposefully leaking CS photos despite JH even calling AB a "victim," we have NMcL looking at defense work product in the leak investigation, admittedly reading multiple ex parte motions, etc., and not a peep about it. Again, guilt or innocence is not a factor in this.

Appellate, habeas, and other defense attorneys discussing the law and closely watching this case (sometimes even stepping in) are suddenly only out for fame and fortune? Nobody wants to see an innocent man imprisoned, and nobody wants to see a guilty man walk. My feeling is there are a lot of people, like CW, ML, and MA who are saying something NOW so that it can be addressed in the moment instead of through appeals. They are explaining the laws publicly because so many are too focused on guilt or innocence, even though we haven't even seen all the evidence yet. Why not put more of our efforts into making sure it's a fair trial? JMO.

 

[layer]

I'm sure he thought the smartest thing to do would be to leave it and get the heck of there ASAP.

I hadn't thought of that before. Duh. DG almost certainly broke up whatever BG had going on there. So we should probably take in the crime scene as a crime that was interrupted in progress.
Smart!

 

[AugustWest]

IMOO, there are two sides to the coin here. If there is a legitimate concern for safety (and I believe there likely was/is), then fine if the Carroll County jail was not the place for him. At the hearing, there was another county jail (I'm sorry I can't recall which one), where they said even though they didn't want him there, they could take him. Instead of moving him there, the focus became that he wasn't treated any differently than any other prisoner in prison, so he can stay put. Except, that argument is comparing his treatment to that of other convicted felons, not other in-custody defendants. Regardless, it was decided to keep him within the IDOC, moving between prisons, all the while, being housed in a situation where he cannot have decent conferencing with his attorneys about his case. Why couldn't he have been placed in the county jail who said they could take him and provided the opportunity to not have to defend himself through a meal tray slot? Guilt or innocence is not a factor in this.

Then, while the world talks about the D team, accusing them of purposefully leaking CS photos despite JH even calling AB a "victim," we have NMcL looking at defense work product in the leak investigation, admittedly reading multiple ex parte motions, etc., and not a peep about it. Again, guilt or innocence is not a factor in this.

Appellate, habeas, and other defense attorneys discussing the law and closely watching this case (sometimes even stepping in) are suddenly only out for fame and fortune? Nobody wants to see an innocent man imprisoned, and nobody wants to see a guilty man walk. My feeling is there are a lot of people, like CW, ML, and MA who are saying something NOW so that it can be addressed in the moment instead of through appeals. They are explaining the laws publicly because so many are too focused on guilt or innocence, even though we haven't even seen all the evidence yet. Why not put more of our efforts into making sure it's a fair trial? JMO.

@TL4S So much all of this!

It is a fundamental principle of our justice system that we are innocent until proven guilty. I'm not talking about people discussing this; I have zero problem with people debating one's culpability. But as a civilized society, we are above throwing people in cages indefinitely prior to a trial (I would hope). Time is one of those things in life you don't get back (life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness). Taking it from someone shouldn't be a trivial matter.

As far as criticism of the defense, well, it is what it is. Most persons don't have a job where you can have your life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness removed from you for a mistake on the job. These attorneys, on both sides, can lose their ability to practice their profession permanently and be thrown in jail. It's not a game to them. They take pride in their work and really believe in what they are doing.

 

[Salah11]

@TL4S So much all of this!

It is a fundamental principle of our justice system that we are innocent until proven guilty. I'm not talking about people discussing this; I have zero problem with people debating one's culpability. But as a civilized society, we are above throwing people in cages indefinitely prior to a trial (I would hope). Time is one of those things in life you don't get back (life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness). Taking it from someone shouldn't be a trivial matter.

As far as criticism of the defense, well, it is what it is. Most persons don't have a job where you can have your life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness removed from you for a mistake on the job. These attorneys, on both sides, can lose their ability to practice their profession permanently and be thrown in jail. It's not a game to them. They take pride in their work and really believe in what they are doing.

What about the victims families and friends do they not also have rights to be allowed the freedom of knowing that the man accused of killing their daughters is locked up and not a threat to them?

Or should a man accused of killing 2 teenage girls still be around children and working in the local CVS?!!

The threshold to charge him and stick him on trial must of been met so he is in the right place until trial. He is deemed a danger to society.

“Taking it from someone shouldn't be a trivial matter”

You mean in the same way he stole Libby and Abby’s entire life’s ?

Mooo

 

[layer]

Time is one of those things in life you don't get back (life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness). Taking it from someone shouldn't be a trivial matter.

Wow!

 

[AugustWest]

What about the victims families and friends do they not also have rights to be allowed the freedom of knowing that the man accused of killing their daughters is locked up and not a threat to them?

Or should a man accused of killing 2 teenage girls still be around children and working in the local CVS?!!

The threshold to charge him and stick him on trial must of been met so he is in the right place until trial. He is deemed a danger to society.



You mean in the same way he stole Libby and Abby’s entire life’s ?

Mooo

I knew this would be a response. Will throwing an innocent person in prison bring those girls back? And that's the rub. It won't, no matter how much we wish it to be. Robbed by someone of the rest of their lives. How do you feel it is justice to take that same time we have on this Earth away from someone else? Our government should not be in the business of taking that time away without fairness IMO. That is why it is important for prosecution and defense both to work as hard as they possibly can to strive towards that fairness. It saddens me that not all feel that way.

EDIT: added IMO

 

[TL4S]

I knew this would be a response. Will throwing an innocent person in prison bring those girls back? And that's the rub. It won't, no matter how much we wish it to be. Robbed by someone of the rest of their lives. How do you feel it is justice to take that same time we have on this Earth away from someone else? Our government should not be in the business of taking that time away without fairness. That is why it is important for prosecution and defense both to work as hard as they possibly can to strive towards that fairness. It saddens me that not all feel that way.

And not just throwing away an innocent person. By walking a thin line with a defendant's rights, we then jeopardize a guilty man going free. What kind of justice is that for the families? Do it right the first time. JMO.

 

[sunshineray]

I'm just curious if the recent State's response has changed any minds in the questions of RA's attorneys honesty or lack there of? Has it thrown a wrench into anyone's belief that AB & BR are competent, ethical and the right attorneys to be defending a man's life?

Edit, sorry I forgot the link:

State’s Response to 3rd Franks Motion

drive.google.com

 

[Salah11]

I knew this would be a response. Will throwing an innocent person in prison bring those girls back? And that's the rub. It won't, no matter how much we wish it to be. Robbed by someone of the rest of their lives. How do you feel it is justice to take that same time we have on this Earth away from someone else? Our government should not be in the business of taking that time away without fairness. That is why it is important for prosecution and defense both to work as hard as they possibly can to strive towards that fairness. It saddens me that not all feel that way.

I feel fine at knowing a man who has openly confessed to the crime is locked up until he is found guilty or released. At the end of the day he can cause no other family’s the horrific pain he has already caused these two family’s.

Thankfully I have never had to go though what they have had to and I wish nobody else had to in the future. I trust LE have the right man locked up and they have taken somebody who is a threat to society out of community. All my sympathies lay with the families of the deceased who have had their entire worlds shattered though no fault of their own.

ETA - just to clarify I’m not implying you don’t have sympathy for the victims as well. I’m just saying I have no sympathy for RA or the position he is now In

MOO