GUILTY WI - Apple River multiple stabbing; one teen dead, 4 other people hurt; 52 year old man arrested, July 2022

[bobbymkii]

I think that has a lot to do with his response as well. We don't know what exactly he went through prior to coming to the United States. Personally, I think that the "party boys" messed with the wrong dude.

Those kids are lucky only one was killed.

We can say, that the old guy should have just walked away. Well, the party guys could have just continued their party and left the guy alone.

Of all the extraordinary details of this case, the most astonishing thing for me is that this is not a double murder trial. AJ Martin was literally disembowelled, and lived to tell the tale and show his scars to the jury. Absolutely incredible.

 

[HanniBJeter]

The defense admitted that they failed to tell the witnesses that needed interpreters that they weren’t supposed to watch the trial before testifying.

 

[housewife]

Did you catch that the witnesses for the defence were all accused of violating the basic rules of NOT listening to the proceedings? They were watching the livestream in the hallway of the courtroom today! (This was not made known to the jury.)

Everyone's testimony seems so off.

Yes!!!
And then allow a tainted witness to testify!
Agree it was off.

 

[housewife]

I think that has a lot to do with his response as well. We don't know what exactly he went through prior to coming to the United States. Personally, I think that the "party boys" messed with the wrong dude.

Those kids are lucky only one was killed.

We can say, that the old guy should have just walked away. Well, the party guys could have just continued their party and left the guy alone.

Miu's group was upriver. He went downriver when he approached the boys, and stood in front of their tube pod to prevent them from continuing their flow downstream. The boys told Miu to stop.
Miu also grabbed a boy's leg and pushed him in the tube suddenly and without consent. It's on video.
Miu left briefly but decided to confront the boys again. His wife testified Miu had briefly returned to their group.
Then the women told Miu to go away. So he struck the woman's face.

 

[housewife]

I haven’t watched the full video, but have seen the clips of the teens pushing Miu into the water. If someone did that to me, I can imagine panicking and lashing out. I do have panic attacks when I feel closed in, and claustrophobia. I wonder if Miu had a history of anxiety or panic disorder? Miu was way outnumbered and I would have been petrified in his place. No knife though, so I couldn’t have hurt anyone. IMO.

I wondered if Miu is autistic:
-Very intelligent
-Inability to compromise
-Unable to read or assess social situations, despite clear objections to his behavior
-Possibly unable to interpret facial expressions in others as well
-Not neurotypically communicative (that day)

But then I learned Miu clearly understood the word "no", and spoke about five different languages so I dropped my theory.

 

[texaslb218]

Every time I waiver and begin to fall off the fence, the knife stops me. I can't excuse either teens or Miu. The knife is a game changer for me.

 

[housewife]

Personally, I think that the "party boys" messed with the wrong dude.

RSBM
Miu approached the boys and put hands on them, not the other way around.
Party Boy Miu admitted he had "lots of beer" that day.
If Miu was mad at the "party boys", why did he strike a woman in the face?
Why stab a bunch of older people, because he didn't like their words?

 

[GoBuckeyes]

The defense admitted that they failed to tell the witnesses that needed interpreters that they weren’t supposed to watch the trial before testifying.

That defense lawyer doesn't come off as green at all. How does that team of lawyers just forget?

 

[housewife]

This crime follows a similar pattern, where a drunk man approaches people, who then verbally tell him they do not like his behavior, so he responds with physical violence. He also blantantly lies to the police.

Drunk Florida man beat up after making fun of Disney World guest with Down syndrome: deputies

A Florida man was arrested after sparking a skirmish with four guests at a Walt Disney World resort bar that started after he made fun of a guest with Down syndrome, according to an arrest affidavit from the Orange County Sheriff's Office.

www.fox35orlando.com

George allegedly told officers he did not remember anything specific due to being intoxicated. He also said he was having a "good time with the individuals, and then he was attacked by them."

Why are there so many older people who become physically violent when they don't like someone's words? And then feel confident lying to police about it? Is loss of impulse control related to age, or maybe pre-dementia? Or just entitlement to behave badly when upset and not take responsibility for how their actions affect others?

Are they even capable of empathy?

 

[Kakidoll]

RSBM
Miu approached the boys and put hands on them, not the other way around.
Party Boy Miu admitted he had "lots of beer" that day.
If Miu was mad at the "party boys", why did he strike a woman in the face?
Why stab a bunch of older people, because he didn't like their words?

we must be watching 2 different videos and trials.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

The defense admitted that they failed to tell the witnesses that needed interpreters that they weren’t supposed to watch the trial before testifying.

Is this grounds for a mistrial? If NM is found guilty this would be a good argument for an appeal.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

According to NM’s divorce records online. They’ve been separated since the day after the incident on the river.

Case Search - Minnesota Court Records Online (MCRO)

 

[AnyNameIWish]

If NM is found guilty this would be a good argument for an appeal

I absolutely think the defence might be playing the long game here... I wouldn't be surprised at all. The attorney is seasoned and isn't new to this!

Do we even have an established, second by second, chronology of what happened when, based on the multiple videos and photos/timestamps, that people are agreeing on?

I worry that this is going to become a
They said vs They said argument among drunk people, high people, drunk and high people, drunk clout chasers (guy taking snapchat who changed his story five times), & people whose testimony is based on what their friends said because they watched the court proceedings.

As for NMs "best friend" who appeared with a translator... does NM FLUENTLY speak Spanish? I don't understand how you're best friends if both parties are communicating in English .. if one party doesn't understand English and needs a translator (?)

Moo

**eta: fluently. "I speak multiple languages" is something I hear and it's often just basic language ability, not one where you can sustain a best friendship. I am fluent in 2 other languages than E English.... but my Spanish is not fluent. I can make out basic Spanish phrases and simple news stories. That doesn't mean I speak it.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

I absolutely think the defence might be playing the long game here... I wouldn't be surprised at all. The attorney is seasoned and isn't new to this!

Do we even have an established, second by second, chronology of what happened when, based on the multiple videos and photos/timestamps, that people are agreeing on?

I worry that this is going to become a
They said vs They said argument among drunk people, high people, drunk and high people, drunk clout chasers (guy taking snapchat who changed his story five times), & people whose testimony is based on what their friends said because they watched the court proceedings.

As for NMs "best friend" who appeared with a translator... does NM fluently speak Spanish? I don't understand how you're best friends if both parties are communicating in English .. if one party doesn't understand English and needs a translator (?)

Moo

NM speaks several languages.

 

[mickey2942]

Every time I waiver and begin to fall off the fence, the knife stops me. I can't excuse either teens or Miu. The knife is a game changer for me.

That, and when he deliberately lied to LEO, changed clothes, denied knowing anything about the altercation.

I was okay with him defending himself with a knife, he felt threatened. But, come clean, admit to the crime, state he felt like he had to defend himself. The fact that he ran, hid, is a problem for me. That shows full knowledge of crime, and that he felt like he had been in the wrong.

Which is interesting to me. I would have been more okay with him manning up to the stabbing. The issue is the lying, deliberately hiding, and running away.

 

[bobbymkii]

As for NMs "best friend" who appeared with a translator... does NM fluently speak Spanish? I don't understand how you're best friends if both parties are communicating in English .. if one party doesn't understand English and needs a translator (?)

Moo

IMO all of these witnesses speak English well enough to socialise and work whatever jobs they have using the language. But when it comes to something as serious and formal as testifying under oath in a murder trial all parties have agreed that is better for them to do so in their 1st language with the help of interpreters.

 

[bobbymkii]

Every time I waiver and begin to fall off the fence, the knife stops me. I can't excuse either teens or Miu. The knife is a game changer for me.

I have a hard time getting around this part too, also because I am not from the United States and I'm not fully au fait with your country's attitude to the concept of self defence, particularly using a bladed article like a pocket knife.

Put it this way, if this incident had happened in my country, NM would have NO chance of claiming he had a legal right to just stab up 5 unarmed people in a public place! Best he could hope for is manslaughter by way of diminished responsibility.

 

[IDK]

This crime follows a similar pattern, where a drunk man approaches people, who then verbally tell him they do not like his behavior, so he responds with physical violence. He also blantantly lies to the police.

Drunk Florida man beat up after making fun of Disney World guest with Down syndrome: deputies

A Florida man was arrested after sparking a skirmish with four guests at a Walt Disney World resort bar that started after he made fun of a guest with Down syndrome, according to an arrest affidavit from the Orange County Sheriff's Office.

www.fox35orlando.com

Why are there so many older people who become physically violent when they don't like someone's words? And then feel confident lying to police about it? Is loss of impulse control related to age, or maybe pre-dementia? Or just entitlement to behave badly when upset and not take responsibility for how their actions affect others?

Are they even capable of empathy?

Just curious if you have any actual stats “that so many older people become physically violent”? Or is it based only on anecdotal data?

In my experience, older individuals have much higher levels of compassion and patience and are more “grounded”. My experience and opinion.

I do agree that Miu may have suffered some level of cognitive/ mental decline after his CABG procedure— it’s not uncommon, from my understanding.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

RSBM
Miu approached the boys and put hands on them, not the other way around.
Party Boy Miu admitted he had "lots of beer" that day.
If Miu was mad at the "party boys", why did he strike a woman in the face?
Why stab a bunch of older people, because he didn't like their words?

Some have speculated that the older jurors may side with the defense. But I don't think they'll appreciate his lies to LE or how glassy-eyed drunk he got.moo Any thoughts?

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Is this grounds for a mistrial? If NM is found guilty this would be a good argument for an appeal.

Not a lawyer and not sure, but if it was the defense ‘unforced’ error (or who knows, maybe a deliberate act?), it would seem that they couldn’t raise it on appeal? IDK. MOO