Australia Samantha Murphy, 51, last seen leaving her property to go for a run in the Canadian State Forest, Ballarat, 4 Feb 2024 *Arrest* #9

[Nifty]

The Coroner could not deter mine cause of death for Allison due to decomposition.
I do hope Samantha is found soon and as you say new technology might be able to detect lots of forensics.
The best thing for everyone would be for accused to confess (if he actually did it), say where her body is, give family closure and suck up his sentence. He could be out by the time he is 40.

That would be the best outcome for her family and police

But most likely he will plead not guilty

And he'll let it drag on, hoping the police don't find SM

and they don't have the damning evidence against him

 

[ProfCluezo]

Yes. This was discussed a few weeks back.

I think I recall someone suggesting, though, that potentially an accused party could withhold the location of a body for quite some time, and hence not be denied parole… even if an accused party only reveals the location at the last minute. Have I understood this correctly?

 

[ProfCluezo]

That would be the best outcome for her family and police

But most likely he will plead not guilty

And he'll let it drag on, hoping the police don't find SM

and they don't have the damning evidence against him

And hypothetically if the accused pleads “not guilty” and there is no body… what then? Would it still be possible to convict for alleged murder… with no body?

 

[BreakingNews]

Thanks for the clarification. If her cause of death couldn't be proven then I guess it's not relevant, and "hearsay " maybe. I thought the defence was able to quash it for some reason which didn't sound right.

You are right. All they questioned the Coroner on in court was cause of death.
Because of decomposition, no cause confirmed. But strangulation or smothering was possible. Blunt force ruled out because he dragged her down the back steps. Head bumped on stairs

 

[BreakingNews]

I think I recall someone suggesting, though, that potentially an accused party could withhold the location of a body for quite some time, and hence not be denied parole… even if an accused party only reveals the location at the last minute. Have I understood this correctly?

I'm guessing that in that case they would still be considered not to have cooperated and Judge would probably put in his/her report the the Parole Board take this into consideration. It's not black or white

 

[HoneyBunOne]

And hypothetically if the accused pleads “not guilty” and there is no body… what then? Would it still be possible to convict for alleged murder… with no body?

Yes. I just googled and Wikipedia shows several cases where this is the outcome. I mean if they had video evidence, then a body is not required.

 

[Nifty]

And hypothetically if the accused pleads “not guilty” and there is no body… what then? Would it still be possible to convict for alleged murder… with no body?

Depends on what evidence the police have got

I hope they have video, CCTV, dash cam which has recorded crucial evidence.
DNA, personal items from SM, possible a weapon, maybe a gun found with SM blood, some cartridges missing etc..

Another crucial piece of evidence is ...

The police might have CCTV of SM being loaded into one of those empty business units with the accused and showing his vehicle etc
maybe with someone else as well ? We don't know yet.

And then CCTV showing the accused turning up again taking SM out of there, to be dumped somewhere else

Remember on that Sunday morning, it would be very quiet and no one around that site

I am hoping they have a star witness who will come forward

 

[Melt71]

And hypothetically if the accused pleads “not guilty” and there is no body… what then? Would it still be possible to convict for alleged murder… with no body?

Yes, as @HoneyBunOne notes above, it is possible and there have been several cases in Victoria (the state where Samantha went missing). Victoria also already has "no body, no parole" laws. There was some discussion in recent years about tightening this to a "no body, no release" law in which those convicted of murder could not be released, even at the end of their prescribed sentence, if they refused to disclose the whereabouts of their victim.

 

[hillshaveeyes]

Unless there is evidence that is 150% conclusive that PS murdered SM the accused may plead not guilty to murder and choose not to answer any questions in court surrounding the alleged murder. Anyone who can maintain silence on the whereabouts of a body is more than capable of leaving it to the prosecution to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Look at the resources from day 1 of this case and still no body. The accused is either not guilty and doesn't have a clue where SM is or is an extremely callous albeit smart individual who can control his own emotions very well to the point of fending off every known police effort to extract the location of the body.

I completely agree.

Lets hope LE have all their ducks in a row and public interest/pressure hasn't altered the investigation in any way.

 

[hillshaveeyes]

Depends on what evidence the police have got

I hope they have video, CCTV, dash cam which has recorded crucial evidence.
DNA, personal items from SM, possible a weapon, maybe a gun found with SM blood, some cartridges missing etc..

Another crucial piece of evidence is ...

The police might have CCTV of SM being loaded into one of those empty business units with the accused and showing his vehicle etc
maybe with someone else as well ? We don't know yet.

And then CCTV showing the accused turning up again taking SM out of there, to be dumped somewhere else

Remember on that Sunday morning, it would be very quiet and no one around that site

I am hoping they have a star witness who will come forward

How stupid do we expect the perp to be?

Do we honestly think the killer would go to an industrial estate full of cameras and drag a body out of his car? Keep trophy items of SM at home? Keep the bloodied murder weapon?

Then again they have charged him with murder without a body..... so I guess you never know.

 

[MadDoc]

Sebastopol?
Hmmm...
I remember this name popped up early in these threads.
(I even asked why Russian town name - Sevastopol - appeared in Australia)

But not sure what was it about Sebastopol that was connected to Samantha's disappearance and discussed in the thread.
So much time has passed and I forgot

I think the accused will plead not guilty in August.
No cooperation.
Total denial.

JMO

Sebastopol is a suburb of Ballarat. According to Wikipedia, it was named after Sevastopol in Crimea. Australia participated in the Crimean War (1853-1856) as part of the British Empire.

During that time (1850's) the Gold Rush was taking place in and around Ballarat, which would have been a prosperous and rapidly expanding town.

Sebastopol, Victoria - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

(signed: a fellow Websleuther of Polish heritage - made in Australia from 100% Polish parts. My parents came to Australia from Poland and I was born in Melbourne.)

 

[SouthAussie]

How stupid do we expect the perp to be?

Do we honestly think the killer would go to an industrial estate full of cameras and drag a body out of his car? Keep trophy items of SM at home? Keep the bloodied murder weapon?

Then again they have charged him with murder without a body..... so I guess you never know.

Well, he was arrested - with no body having been found - 4½ weeks after Sam disappeared.

With no body, there can be no obvious (or subtle) clues for the detectives to follow right away. No mode or manner of death to give any clues. 4½ weeks is pretty quick for a murder arrest with no victim found.

So, I am guessing PS did something stupid that gave him away.

imo

 

[Nifty]

How stupid do we expect the perp to be?

Do we honestly think the killer would go to an industrial estate full of cameras and drag a body out of his car? Keep trophy items of SM at home? Keep the bloodied murder weapon?

Then again they have charged him with murder without a body..... so I guess you never know.

We don't know !

But the police have been very interested in that business area

Roger Rogerson and Glen McNamara did in front of full CCTV and Both hardened cops !

Murdered Gao in a storage unit. CCTV showed them all arriving

And then only two came out, Rogerson and McNamara with the body of Gao

I am sure If police did find more evidence, they would have had to work hard to find it

It wasn't left there in the open by the tooth fairy either

What you seem to think

 

[Newby171]

Missing Pieces on Apple Podcasts

News · 2024

podcasts.apple.com

I found this very informative, but not sure if I can share this. Please delete if not allowed. They do talk about VIC laws regarding no body found.

 

[Dotta]

Grim details emerge after body of young woman found in Victorian bushland

A family member had reported her missing hours before police were called to a car fire.

7news.com.au

Burnt car?

Wasn't there a report that there was a burnt car in Samantha's street soon after her disappearance?

OK
It all seems not connected,
but paints a rather grim and macabre picture of burning cars and dead women.

3 murders of women in 2 months in 1 town.
(Since 4th February)

Is there enough LE to form all these homicide teams?

ETA
Oh, I forgot about a woman's body found in a bin (during this time frame)
And, Samantha's is an alleged murder.

RIP to all victims

JMO

 

[Karin1974]

Phones usually have place for 2 SIM cards.
One card for home.
One card for office/work.

2 in 1

Pings are from either home or office, depending on which card is switched on but there is 1 phone so there is 1 signal.
But there are 2 numbers.

People rarely carry 2 phones,
at least where I live.

JMO

MOO. Office worker from Brisbane Australia here, I carry 2 x phones, 1 for work & 1 for personal.

 

[Dotta]

I'm so worried that Samantha might never be found

Or found too late for any meaningful evidence (DNA).

If Police have only phone pings in the area,
the accused can always say his phone was stolen - and later returned somehow.
(as he was allegedly drunk/high).
And that he was allegedly framed into a crime.

But I hope that maybe there is some evidence in his car.
But then,
who would be soooo careless to carry a body in one's own car???
With wealth of victim's DNA, touch DNA, possible hair, etc, left?

I trust there was an alleged witness.
Or that the accused allegedly gave himself away somehow by babbling or unusual behaviour.

Or...
some other mysterious evidence.

Cctv?

The crucial would be his alibi (or lack of it).

Who saw him?
Where and when?
Who accompanied him home?
At what time precisely?
Was he alone?
What was he doing the whole weekend?
(Every hour must be accounted for).

The whole time frame from Saturday and Sunday.

Where did he go/travel later in the week?
What was his behaviour?
State of mind?

But we, as the public, know nothing about these details.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed (metaphorically)
for Justice for Samantha and her Family!!!!

Her poor young children, elderly parents, husband and all other stricken family members dealing with unimaginable pain and despair

I wish them strength to carry on living.

JMO

 

[DK007]

Any new updates on SM case ?

 

[Warshawski]

Meant to be asked to present ID if you look under 25.

Most rowdy pubs and clubs will scan everyone.

It’s legal in Australia / QLD at least, to drink alcohol at 18, so access cannot be denied if you meet that ‘age’ requirement...( yes, big difference between looking 18 and looking 25)

They can pull the ‘not properly attired’, or even ‘you’re too intoxicated’ - to deny entry, however I doubt any of this is relevant to finding Samantha, nor to discovering the path / those that led to her stated demise.

The reality is that investigators don’t need to tell the public anything - however they broke that ‘code of silence’ by being quite vocal in their public conferences … and then more so when they went public with their arrest of PS ( despite any evidence, which is their prerogative )

After checking other forums, I’m concerned that it’s not all that difficult to charge someone with Murder !
Sure, sticking it, is where the ‘truth / challenge’ becomes important - but OMG ! Can you imagine the fallout if that was laid on you tomorrow!

All are just my thoughts.

 

[Dotta]

"Chief Commissioner Patton would not confirm what led police to arrest the man.

He said police believed the 22-year-old was not known to Murphy or her family.

Several search warrants were executed at a number of properties near the man’s home as investigators continue to search for clues.

'This investigation is far from over',
Chief Commissioner Patton said.

'We’re going to be continuing to gather further evidence, taking further statements and

investigations will continue at a very heavy pace'."

It Is an old report,
but this "very heavy pace of investigation"
seems to be interesting IMO.

Samantha Murphy's accused killer named as Patrick Orren Stephenson after suppression order ends - KiwiMediaPost

By court reporter Kristian Silva, ABC News

kiwimediapost.co.nz