UT - Parenting influencer, Ruby Franke, and blogger/podcast partner Jodi Hildebrandt, arrested for Child Abuse, Aug 2023 #2

[Izzylizzy]

Also in KF's 8-30 interview when asked by LE how did he/Ruby discipline his kids KF responded "I'm not comfortable answering that question".
KF was well aware of the disciplinary tactics used on the children by Ruby and himself.
even if KF wasn't the initiator he certainly was an enabler of all that R & J did.

IMO: KF's negligence in knowing or should have known as an adult that he left his 4 children in the care of 2 dangerous, religious fanatics which led to the extreme abuse of 2 of them reeks of the same stench as the Crumbley's not getting help for their mentally unstable son and purchasing him a handgun resulting in a tragedy.

I find it highly offensive that KF was given a pass by LE.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Was KF doing "therapy" with JH during the year that he was banished to the small apartment with almost zero contact with RF and no contact with the kids?

IIRC: I read/heard KF say that JH had told him that he wasn't making enough progress working on his addictions.
I think it was the same timeline when KF was on his own and not seeing his kids.
Would JH give up the opportunity to still call the shots on K and make money from counseling him?
I think not.

 

[Howl]

Would JH give up the opportunity to still call the shots on K and make money from counseling him?
I think not

Same dealio with the oldest son, who I think was also paying JH for "counseling".

 

[Izzylizzy]

Did you all hear the jail phone call when KF told Ruby that R & E would be in the hospital for 3 days and Ruby said that's "not necessary" and they're "exaggerating"?

 

[Howl]

Did you all hear the jail phone call when KF told Ruby that R & E would be in the hospital for 3 days and Ruby said that's "not necessary" and they're "exaggerating"?

Yes, RF was in a staggering level of denial on the desperate physical condition of her two youngest children, who were in that state due to her torture. It's incompresensible to me, but I'd love to hear an explanation from a forensic psychiatrist of psychologist.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Yes, RF was in a staggering level of denial on the desperate physical condition of her two youngest children, who were in that state due to her torture. It's incompresensible to me, but I'd love to hear an explanation from a forensic psychiatrist of psychologist.

IMO:
RF was being deceptive by falsely denying the serious condition of R & E .
She knew damn well the condition she put them in.
She was talking to the whipped blithering idiot, I'd like to see her say that to the prosecutor(s).

 

[Luna20]

Same dealio with the oldest son, who I think was also paying JH for "counseling".

Where is it reported that the oldest son was paying JH for counseling?

 

[RickshawFan]

Xylazine has entered the drug abuse chat in the last few years.
Xylazine is a non-opioid sedative or tranilizer used in veterinary practice; it's not approved for human use. It's increasingly showing up mixed with fentanyl, heroine and the other usual suspects in human overdoses and overdose deaths.

Segway!
Ruby Franke WIKI: "As of June 2020, the channel had around 2.5 million subscribers and amassed 1 billion views..." I wonder when JH realized that if she could capture even a small number of RF's on-line following for ConneXions, she could be crazy rich. Yes, I realize that 8 Passengers had stopped, but out of that 2.5 million, there had to be a LOT of die-hard followers still looking for RF content and then they found Ruby over at ConneXions.

MOO: I'll speculate that at some point JH made a conscious decision to co-opt RF for her own ends and capture those die-hard RF fans for ConneXions.

I also find it fascinating that during the post-arrest fall out, RF adamantly denied being "in business" with JH, and claimed she never made any $$$ from ConneXions.

From Kevin’s second interview: 8 Passengers was doing something like $2M. Ruby wanted to hand the whole thing over to Jodi in exchange for becoming a employee of Connexions.

 

[Twick]

IMO RF doesn't show any signs of being brainwashed (note she wasn't cut off from all social engagement as Kevin was). Kevin had some time before the second interview. It was about time he examined his life for real; until then he thought Jodi was a goddess. But it isn't easy to shed brainwashing.

I thought Kevin was working as a professor during this time? Would he not have had social interaction through his work?

 

[Twick]

This is what I have a hard time understanding:

How did she have a massive following with what she was doing? Making your child suffer outside in the sun, no lunch, etc. Were they in agreement with her?

There is a big market for the philosophy “modern parents are too soft on their kids, we need discipline and traditional values.”

 

[Howl]

There is a big market for the philosophy “modern parents are too soft on their kids, we need discipline and traditional values.”

Less than 30 seconds ago, I just finished this article from Deseret.com, a Mormon focused news site. I ended up there from reading an article linked in the Caleb Harris disappearance thread.

Abigail Shrier h as a message for parents: Assert authority in your kid's life 'Bad Therapy' author argues that therapy has risks for children

I don't have room here to say what I think is wrong with this conservative author's viewpoint, but it does speak directly to @Twick's comment.

 

[RickshawFan]

I thought Kevin was working as a professor during this time? Would he not have had social interaction through his work?

He said he was going to work and immediately coming home to work on himself by reading the bible. Jodi told all his guy friends not to talk with him. This is extremely isolating, even if you have students all day. And Jodi already had him convinced that he wasn't getting any better (her standards being impenetrable). The isolation was very extensive, especially from Kevin's perspective: he seems to have been used to a lot of interaction from supportive fellas. The isolation Jodi imposed on Kevin was undisguised punishment for he knew not exactly what. This is brainwashing. He even describes how compliant it made him because he'd do anything for love and affection, even the slightest morsel.

This has actually happened to me, though not in a religious context (I was in more of a Lord of the Flies situation). And students are arms' length: they aren't a support system or equivalent. I totally identify with what Kevin says he experienced and how malleable it made him. He was brainwashed into not believing what he was seeing. I don't believe this even makes him a weak man. IMO it makes him human. Looking at it, you might think, "no, I'd never react that way", but I urge y'all not to be so sure. The reason brainwashing works is that humans are the way they are.

Gaslighting is one technique that is used in this process. If you've ever been systematically gaslit (most are susceptible to this IMO, especially if they don't have other humans to compare notes with), IMO Kevin's universe will more readily make sense.

The reason the "gaslight movie" was so successful and creepy IMO was that humans can identify with it and can anticipate they'd be susceptible. They can see it happening. Audience reaction is not "that could never happen to me"; the movie plays on the idea that most adults can see it happening to them".

I'll bet LE in the Franke case even consulted with brainwashing and torture experts; this may be a reason why Kevin hasn't been charged.

Note the Ferriter case, where clearly similar techniques gaslighting and isolation techniques were used on a juvenile, though they are prohibited in juvenile facilities because it makes people psychotic.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

He said he was going to work and immediately coming home to work on himself by reading the bible. Jodi told all his guy friends not to talk with him. This is extremely isolating, even if you have students all day. And Jodi already had him convinced that he wasn't getting any better (her standards being impenetrable). The isolation was very extensive, especially from Kevin's perspective: he seems to have been used to a lot of interaction from supportive fellas. The isolation Jodi imposed on Kevin was undisguised punishment for he knew not exactly what. This is brainwashing. He even describes how compliant it made him because he'd do anything for love and affection, even the slightest morsel.

This has actually happened to me, though not in a religious context (I was in more of a Lord of the Flies situation). And students are arms' length: they aren't a support system or equivalent. I totally identify with what Kevin says he experienced and how malleable it made him. He was brainwashed into not believing what he was seeing. I don't believe this even makes him a weak man. IMO it makes him human. Looking at it, you might think, "no, I'd never react that way", but I urge y'all not to be so sure. The reason brainwashing works is that humans are the way they are.

Gaslighting is one technique that is used in this process. If you've ever been systematically gaslit (most are susceptible to this IMO, especially if they don't have other humans to compare notes with), IMO Kevin's universe will more readily make sense.

The reason the "gaslight movie" was so successful and creepy IMO was that humans can identify with it and can anticipate they'd be susceptible. They can see it happening. Audience reaction is not "that could never happen to me"; the movie plays on the idea that most adults can see it happening to them".

I'll bet LE in the Franke case even consulted with brainwashing and torture experts; this may be a reason why Kevin hasn't been charged.

Note the Ferriter case, where clearly similar techniques gaslighting and isolation techniques were used on a juvenile, though they are prohibited in juvenile facilities because it makes people psychotic.

I have felt that gaslighting should be much better understood. Though most would not call it gaslighting, I feel I see it in a couple of long-time marriages where a misogynistic male, though "loving" in the long run...just has a way of putting the wife down, by belittling and intimidating. In both cases she just coyly smiles. I wanted to slap the "hims" in the face. So, sometimes it comes off as teasing....but it can be evil too. So many shades of grey with gaslighting.
With Kevin, I see a mixture of social media fame, money, screwed up religiosity, manipulation and gaslighting making him like a burnt marshmellow. Not useless, but a very changed entity.

 

[Howl]

I'll bet LE in the Franke case even consulted with brainwashing and torture experts; this may be a reason why Kevin hasn't been charged.

I can't see any reason for KF to be charged. He wasn't involved in the torture of his children; he had no idea they were with JH in Ivins and had zero idea what was going on.

 

[Luna20]

There is a big market for the philosophy “modern parents are too soft on their kids, we need discipline and traditional values.”

Yes, well if anyone agreed with RF style of parenting (ABUSE) they should be doing serious work on themselves. There is ample reason for this to be seen for what it is.

I can’t fathom hurting my child for a ‘modern’ approach to parenting. I don’t understand the disconnect between what is normal and what’s not acceptable. I mean in my mind there is no gray area.

 

[Izzylizzy]

A Parole Board member walks through the process then addresses R & J.
The rules have changed on April 1,2024.
Original hearings don't necessarily happen after just 6 months.
Unless I misunderstood her at the end of the video it sounds like if a person does all that was required of them while incarcerated,therapy etc., and has no behavior issues they can be released on parole within a much,much shorter amount of time compared to the Judges max time given.
Like easy-peasy to get released?

IMO: This Utah parole system in their Constitution reminds me of a political move at the time that it was entered to be able to get cronies out of prison ASAP by appointing other cronies to the board.
I'm going to see what the history of it says.

Chanel 2 has had excellent reporting on this case.

 

[Lusitana]

I do have to agree that he has been an awful, neglecteful and checked out father for a LONG time. But I can't sit here and say that this is his all fault, he didn't know and it appears he really had to reason to suspect that his wife was physically abusing the children. The violence seemed to have started in may and escalated very rapidly until august. I have no doubts these children have been verbally and emotionally abused for a much longer time and the father was present for that, but I read her journal and she admits that the physical abuse started very suddendly and escalated immensely for the poor boy when he ran away the first time.

Now, I do believe that Kevin was never a good parent. I used to watch their videos and I remember her sharing about incidents that happened with the children. No normal, present and involved father would allow that. Their oldest almost died as a baby because Ruby wouldn't take her to the ER until Kevin put his foot down and took her, she had to have I think an abdominal surgery, the boy that saved himself and his sister had a broken femur as a baby, one of their daughters (J) was so terribly neglected as a baby that she constantly had awful diaper rashes and her little head was flat from always being in the same position for long periods, even had to have a helmet. These were all things that were shared by Ruby on YouTube.

So no, he didn't torture and physically abuse them, but he neglected his children for years and allowed them to be put into dangerous situations. She was always mean to the children, always. The middle girls (A and J) would be dealing with acne and she would make mean comments about it. She was always an awful parent and he knew that. So no, he didn't hit them or tied them, but he knew his wife was cold and mean to the children. They have been punished since birth. Poor kids.

I understand what brainwashing and cults are, but it's so strange to me how both Ruby and Kevin went from 0 to 100. They were so brainwashed and the next day, when faced with the consequences, were very quickly able to snap out of it an realize that they were being manipulated? I'm not sure that's how it works...

Edit: many typos.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Victims want parole reform in Utah, experts say the fix is complicated

Court records show the suspect in the shooting of two Salt Lake County deputies had violated probation for at least the fifth time two months before Saturday’s shooting. His probation had been revoked but he was not put back in jail. Caption: KUTV - Kelly Vaughen reports. Criminal justice...

kutv.com

And this:
Utah's 1896 Constitution and boards.

"Of course, in addition to its role in ensuring statehood and in promoting the concept of Utah’s inclusiveness, the Utah Constitution also establishes the structure of state government. It is in this regard that one scholar criticized the original 1896 constitution as exhibiting a general hostility towards the authority and role of state government.[58] Of particular concern was the dispersion of executive powers among an “executive ‘troika'”–the governor, secretary of state, and attorney general–who together constituted a Board of Examiners, responsible for examining all claims against the state.[59] (Article VII, Section 13 (repealed)) Other executive tasks were performed by other specifically-empowered boards comprised of the governor and other executive officials. Most of the provisions establishing such boards, with the exception of the Board of Pardons and Parole (Article VII, Section 12), were repealed in 1981, with further amendments occurring in 1993.

Utah's Constitution: Distinctively Undistinctive - Daniel J.H. Greenwood

Utah’s Constitution: Distinctively Undistinctive by C.J. Christine Durham, Daniel J.H. Greenwood & Kathy Wyer in: George E. Connor & Christopher W. Hammons (eds.), The Constitutionalism of American States (University of Missouri Press, forthcoming 2006) Utah has a relatively homogeneous...

sites.hofstra.edu

 

[RickshawFan]

Where is it reported that the oldest son was paying JH for counseling?

In Kevin’s second interview with LE.

 

[lightofmine99]

So we can or cannot write the Utah parole board even if you don't live in Utah?