Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #180

[layer]

Context is everything. That's proven in this case time and time again. One certainty in this case is that until trial, the public is missing mountains of facts, including context.

Great post!
One near certainty I have is that we will still be missing mountains of facts and associated context long after this trial is over. Or if it will ever be over. Some cases are like a bad penny.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I think these particular attorneys are ego driven and it’s a game that they are playing to win. JMO
In fact, I think many passionate defense attorneys would absolutely persuade a client to try to fight the charges if they believed there was a chance they could win.JMO
From personal experience I have seen attorneys push their own agendas to rack up fees. Do you think this doesn’t happen with criminal defense lawyers? iMO yes
I believe this team had already been paid out over $150k in an October 23 and still had $51k in invoices to collect. Who knows how much more they have billed in fees. Or how much they have collected in crowdfunding.
So yes I think it absolutely happens that attorneys try to encourage their clients to fight to win freedom. JMO

Ego driven defense and for future interviews, books or movie specials.

JMO

 

[layer]

What kind of sound defense strategy can the Defense even put forth?

I'd say a sound defense strategy would be to do the opposite of what's being implied. I'd sit RA down after learning he confessed and either help him work on a plea agreement or have him 'splain the how and why of the confessions so I can properly defend him going to trial. But I'm not a lawyer, obvs.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I think we will have a lot of answers to the speculation about his actions when we see his list of medications and when they were administered.

He can be good when he's off of a particular med and really wonky when he's on. This is one more thing on the very long list of things we just don't know.

As far as RA fretting about not being able to use the vending machine, maybe his wife wanted something to drink and a snack after her drive up there.

True or maybe RA has an anger management issue? Possible

MOO

 

[justtrish]

I'd say a sound defense strategy would be to do the opposite of what's being implied. I'd sit RA down after learning he confessed and either help him work on a plea agreement or have him 'splain the how and why of the confessions so I can properly defend him going to trial. But I'm not a lawyer, obvs.

I mentioned this last week also, but I think this is why I feel RA has to take the stand to explain it all if he wants to claim he is innocent. He is the only one that can explain what he did that day, when he came forward and why, what he saw or didn't see, and then explain why he confessed to his wife and others if he didn't actually do it. There is just far to many ways he's inserted himself into this and I think he has to be the one to explain it if there is any explanation other than he did it.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I'd say a sound defense strategy would be to do the opposite of what's being implied. I'd sit RA down after learning he confessed and either help him work on a plea agreement or have him 'splain the how and why of the confessions so I can properly defend him going to trial.

Yes, one would hope an ethical D attorney would do just that. I don't think that will happen here.

But what type of defense could you mount against RA's own confessions other than there was mental defect at the time? If he told you guilt led to his confessions or his conscious led to his confession, what could you do with that? Just curious.

MOO

 

[WildHuncher]

If there’s a plea deal we may learn no more than we know now. Show over.

In the Rodney Alcala case, he was scheduled to go on trial in New York at one point for two different murders. He had not been cooperating at all with the authorities, so a trial seemed certain.

He was working as his own lawyer to appeal his CA death sentence. He pleaded guilty in NY to hurry on back to the left coast. Just a tactic. Worked, and cost him nothing. We never saw the state’s case. I was deeply immersed and had questions.

I’m torn. We’ve been puzzling over a lot of crazy WTFs for years now. But a deal would spare the families the reopening of wounds.

RA could see the writing on the wall between now and next month.

 

[M. Kay]

JMO but this seems extremely fishy. He couldn’t be having an episode during all those confessions spanning March -June yet otherwise acting normal when he wanted.
IMO he wholeheartedly confessed and was ready to plea and then defense persuaded him against it.

Well articulated! Realizing how our system of justice 'works'; court case has prosecution's strictures while defense tactics undermine "nothing but the truth". (Admitted here once that I was knocked off jury panel quickly over this view.) Interest in cases for me is the psychology and investigation of the crime. I depend on those here to explain what transpires in seeking justice; for I question whether law is served equally through prosecution and defense. Sorry to say...

 

[layer]

If there’s a plea deal we may learn no more than we know now.

Well, I would learn more than I know now.

 

[zh0r4]

Why? Are there numerous cases of lawyers persueding defendants who admit they are guilty to lie and plead innocence? Maybe a mob lawyer? I never heard of such a thing happening but I don't get out much. That just seems unethical to me.

This. It doesn’t make sense for the D to NOT take a plea if they believe RA is innocent. RA is not OJ, who is going to keep paying the lawyers millions regardless. The D is taking a huge pay cut, so there is really nothing to benefit from staying with RA/not encouraging him to take a plea unless they truly believe he is innocent. There is zero financial incentive for the D, and obviously there is no career incentive for the D-considering all of the hate they are getting from many in the public, and especially the accusations by JG of gross negligence (regardless of whether you agree with her or not). Lebrato also thought he was innocent, and alluded to the rarity of the situation (ie, of defense attorneys getting a client they truly believe is innocent).

JMO.

 

[zh0r4]

The only other case I can think of of the top of my head (and I'm not an attorney) is Katie Magbanua, who was convicted of conspiring to help murder her ex-boyfriend's ex-brother-in-law, Dan Markel. It's long been suspected that Katie's attorneys were paid for by the Adelson family, who hired the hit, and didn't want to be caught. So, they didn't want her to plea and her paid-for attorneys talked her out of it (theory of some). Now that Katie has been convicted and sentenced to life, she's talking. She has never said her attorneys "talked her out of it" though, and instead says she didn't fess up at first because she didn't want to implicate her baby daddy, the actual trigger man. Still, there is a lot of suspicion about her attorneys.

IMO, MOO

I’m unfamiliar with this case. To clarify, she wasn’t indigent and the attorneys were being paid, correct?

 

[Emma Peel]

I agree there is apparently this aspect to it @susane7 , but also IMO this is not how anything works. You can't ask the court to suppress any and all confessions without mentioning the differing context of the worst ones or even indicating that they exist? How can the prosecution respond to your argument if you don't make one? We saw Baldwin try this in the hearing about dismissal and the Judge shot him down. He wasn't allowed to question the witness about issues he had not pled in his motion.

And I agree they apparently open the door for some of the statements by Allen to be true - but just unconstitutional.

As ever, I am suspicious this is more for the Gallery than the Judge or the appeal Judge. If it was for the appeal Judge, why isn't everything in there? or is there going to be a special second motion about the other ones?

RBBM -
Yes.
There appears to have been an urgent need to depose and the arrangements for that deposition had to be approved by Gull. Suppression Memo supports that depo approval request and airs some State grievances. D strategy may anticipate that the P will bring in the family phone call(s) (could that be sealed?), and will deal with it separately. Good thought there. Plenty of folks don't find this D to be strategic. I'm not one of them. The P's been put on the offensive here, lets see the P's answer, etc.. JMHO

 

[FrostedGlass]

That's not the case IMO. DOC only video recorded RA's very few visits with his D, not audio recorded them.

DOC: I did not audio record them; I only video recorded them. Read My Lips.

Sorry, I couldn't help myself. lol

 

[Emma Peel]

DOC: I did not audio record them; I only video recorded them. Read My Lips.

Sorry, I couldn't help myself. lol

Prison Life is tricky sometimes.

So ... when I read that, it struck me that a State actor (not wearing noice-cancelling headphones) was holding that portable camera LISTENING to RA's privileged counsel meeting. THAT was the point being made, IMO.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Prison Life is tricky sometimes.

So ... when I read that, it struck me that a State actor (not wearing noice-cancelling headphones) was holding that portable camera LISTENING to RA's privileged counsel meeting. THAT was the point being made, IMO.

You completely lost me. Help!
They claimed they were not listening to him; only watching him for safety reasons (or whatever). I think it's possible they were able to read his lips using the recording. They were only about 10" away from him and he was facing them.

I never read if they were within hearing distance from him or not.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Yes I do think that some defense attorneys are ego driven, money motivated and thrive off the thrill of the “game”.
Especially ones that use exaggerated and dramatic language in their filings. JMO

I think it's fair to say that applies to the defense attys and the prosecuting attys.

No matter which side you're on, a win is a feather in your cap. It gets you more business, it gets you re-elected and it can even get you promoted. Money is a common motivation in all fields; Nick asked for raises for his team. Nothing wrong with that.

I'm not sure about the thrill of the "game;" I suspect that, for the most part, it does not feel like a game to them.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

If RA was behaving so badly, like a raving lunatic, and confessing to everybody he could find for the last year, why the heck would the defense not intervene? Why would they let that continue? They have insisted he is their pride and joy and they are devoted to him. Allowing his crazy behavior to continue was not in his best interest. They either don’t give rip about him or they allowed the crazy to continue because they felt it would somehow benefit the case.
They weren’t there for him because they were too busy writing farfetched fantasy, and saving their own rears.
Yes, the prison should have been trying to help and for all we know, they may have been trying. The only information we have at present is from the defense. Not very reliable so I’ll wait to hear the other side.

 

[Emma Peel]

You completely lost me. Help!
They claimed they were not listening to him; only watching him for safety reasons (or whatever). I think it's possible they were able to read his lips using the recording. They were only about 10" away from him and he was facing them.

I never read if they were within hearing distance from him or not.

Perhaps I'm lost and you can help me. Maybe I missed an important detail?

First, you've got 10" there, but I'm thinking you mean 10' ?

If I understand this, a guard is filming 10 ft from a privileged client meeting in a private quiet room for *advertiser censored* time (for an hour, likely more?)

Is the guard in the private quiet room or outside of it. i.e. Are you describing a closed room situation w/windows and a camera outside the room such that being 10 ft away involves being on the other side of a closed room filming through a window?

Maybe we don't know.

 

[photographer4]

If RA was behaving so badly, like a raving lunatic, and confessing to everybody he could find for the last year, why the heck would the defense not intervene? Why would they let that continue? They have insisted he is their pride and joy and they are devoted to him. Allowing his crazy behavior to continue was not in his best interest. They either don’t give rip about him or they allowed the crazy to continue because they felt it would somehow benefit the case.
They weren’t there for him because they were too busy writing farfetched fantasy, and saving their own rears.
Yes, the prison should have been trying to help and for all we know, they may have been trying. The only information we have at present is from the defense. Not very reliable so I’ll wait to hear the other side.

What would you have hd the D do to intervene? I’m not sure what they could have done aside asking for him to be moved to somewhere else (didn’t they do this and wasn’t it denied?)? I’m not sure what they did do or what could have done, so I am genuinely asking here.

 

[Emma Peel]

Perhaps I'm lost and you can help me. Maybe I missed an important detail?

First, you've got 10" there, but I'm thinking you mean 10' ?

If I understand this, a guard is filming 10 ft from a privileged client meeting in a private quiet room for *advertiser censored* time (for an hour, likely more?)

Is the guard in the private quiet room or outside of it. i.e. Are you describing a closed room situation w/windows and a camera outside the room such that being 10 ft away involves being on the other side of a closed room filming through a window?

Maybe we don't know.

@FrostedGlass - sorry, I have no idea what the advertiser did deem to censor.