OK OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #3 *Arrests*

[Molly's Mom]

I can't believe a whole group of grown adults hatched a plan to try to take someone out with an anvil like they were living in a roadrunner cartoon. If this were in a movie I'd just switch it off because it sounds so ridiculous.

Which one was Wylie Coyote? WOW. An anvil?

 

[Herat]

Possible Burial location. IMO There is no implication of this individual being involved but is only for location purposes.
I have been looking at the Property in Texas Co OK that has been disclosed and find that "he" owns property in section 8, TWP 3N Range 10E and it is about 8.6 miles from the car location and there are a couple ponds according to Google Earth and Acre Value. Pond is in SE 1/4 of section 8

https://www.acrevalue.com/map/?lat=36.738099&lng=-101.992796&zoom=14

https://okcountyrecords.com/detail/texas/2022-003275/28223575

This location is 8.62 miles SW of the abandoned car. (5.4 mi west and 6.8 mi south of the abandoned car)
JMO and Suppositions.

There is a dirt road that leads directly from the county road to two ponds , both of which appear to have small concrete dams, just as described in the affidavit.

Great find, Ksfarmer8

 

[Molly's Mom]

Okay, strange question. If VB and JK were likely murdered at the site where the car was found, how are there kidnapping charges?

 

[JerseyWasHome2]

Cole Earl Twombley:

https://ktul.com/resources/pdf/7b4d818f-4930-4ef8-8b11-1c37ccf87680-texascountycasecourtdocs.pdf

Thank you for that document.

Curious why it wasn’t stated in detail what the daughter was being asked to clean the vehicle entitled and what she saw. Cleaning a truck interior could just mean vacuuming it and wiping windows. If she saw blood or was directed to use bleach, etc., would that not have been in this document?

 

[CuriousCricket]

Okay, strange question. If VB and JK were likely murdered at the site where the car was found, how are there kidnapping charges?

Would diverting them off the road with the intention to harm them do it? If not, they were still alive when carried away, perhaps?

 

[MassGuy]

Thank you for that document.

Curious why it wasn’t stated in detail what the daughter being asked to clean the vehicle entitled and what she saw. Cleaning a truck interior could just mean vacuuming it and wiping windows. If she saw blood or was directed to use bleach, etc., would that not have been in this document?

They seem to have left a lot out. It's the fact that she was told to clean which adds to the suspicion. We'll get a hell of a lot more down the road, to include results of forensic testing. I think they also left out the cooperation of that Paul guy

 

[GRT]

If not from excessive force (which I don't think happened here), it can happen if the head flies off the wooden handle because of age or cheap construction. I had a hammer in a tool set given as a gift whose metal handle bent after, well, I can't remember, but it wasn't long in use. As to why they left it, they're not the...sharpest tools in the shed.

I thought that, too. Probably a cheap hammer. A hammer with a full tang would not have broken. But, we're talking about dumb and dumber in this crime scenario.

 

[Herat]

The affidavit states that she was questioned over the border in TX, so probably at the home of her father or another family member. Smart of her to make sure she was away from C&C before saying anything, for her own safety.

If she decided to "make a visit to Dad" to be able to safely reach out to LE, she is one very very brave and smart young woman.

 

[GRT]

Snipped by me for focus. CW's father is named in one of the affidavits and is not CT. My hope is he's an upstanding person who will help those kids try to heal. They've lost their mother too. And no telling what they've seen or heard aside from this case.
Edited to clarify: CW's father was ONLY named as her father, not as any kind of accomplice. I just realized I don't want to confuse anyone who hasn't read the affidavits.

And, her father lives in Wyoming, so it's doubtful he was even aware of what was going on.

 

[Herat]

They seem to have left a lot out. It's the fact that she was told to clean which adds to the suspicion. We'll get a hell of a lot more down the road, to include results of forensic testing. I think they also left out the cooperation of that Paul guy

I believe we will hear a great deal more of Paul Grice's actions at the trial.

Most likely in his own voice and words.

 

[Optics]

Do some flatbeds slant so they could have planned to drive the car on it for transport? Or is a flatbed loaded only from the top? Naturally, since it was bigger, it could have been used only to help block the car's way.

I am surmising the flatbed was to remove the heavy duty backhoe or excavator (I forget what was used...) to dig the hole to bury them on Beasley's property. The property owner stated that when he returned home the machine was gone.

 

[Molly's Mom]

Would diverting them off the road with the intention to harm them do it? If not, they were still alive when carried away, perhaps?

That makes sense that intentionally diverting them off the road could be considered kidnapping. My mind was just going to they were alive when removed to a different location, even after being harmed. Thanks for pointing it out.

 

[whowy]

I think so, too.

And it's too bad these groups form, and somehow, it seems as though they develop their own sense of right and wrong. The history of lynch mobs tells us what can happen when those groups are left to their own devices.

The Twomblys' being so open with young CW about what was happening/going to happen makes me think they were already pretty far gone cult-wise, and they felt as though they were untouchable.

And making her clean the pickup? That's a bridge too far!

Imagine the Twombleys were open with her because :
a) they never expected LE to have any reason to question her and/or:
b) they believed that, as a minor, she could not be questioned without their knowledge, consent, & presence.
I wonder what turned LE`s attention to her?

 

[whitelilac]

The 4 of them are presently sitting in a cell, separately. No more cabal, no more communication. How I'd like to imagine what's going through their minds. Especially TA, no longer the queen of the land. She must be tearing her hair out.

 

[Hestia's Fire]

That makes sense that intentionally diverting them off the road could be considered kidnapping. My mind was just going to they were alive when removed to a different location, even after being harmed. Thanks for pointing it out.

According to the charges (see here: Tad Cullen Affidavit and Charges | PDF ) the women were forcibly seized from Highway 95 and Road L, confined in another vehicle and transferred to another location with the intent to cause the women to be confined/imprisoned against their will. You don't talk about a dead body being imprisoned against their will, so I am taking this to mean that the women were most likely still alive (even if barely) when they were taken away from Veronica's car.

 

[SusanDonim]

It seems to be no longer public.

Screenshotting always worth it

 

[whitelilac]

Imagine the Twombleys were open with her because :
a) they never expected LE to have any reason to question her and/or:
b) they believed that, as a minor, she could not be questioned without their knowledge, consent, & presence.
I wonder what turned LE`s attention to her?

She contacted LE.

 

[charmingbetsy]

Okay, strange question. If VB and JK were likely murdered at the site where the car was found, how are there kidnapping charges?

The statute defines kidnapping quite broadly: "Any person who, without lawful authority, seizes, confines, inveigles, decoys, kidnaps, abducts, or carries away another, with intent ..."

I would think that diverting them off the road could be considered "decoy" or "seizure." Perhaps even blocking their car could be "confinement." There are a lot of other ways this could be applied. I don't think they have to necessarily be transported alive somewhere else to make this charge fit.

2024 Oklahoma Statutes :: Title 21. Crimes and Punishments :: §21-741. Kidnapping defined.

Justia Free Databases of U.S. Laws, Codes & Statutes

law.justia.com

 

[Herat]

Thank you for that document.

Curious why it wasn’t stated in detail what the daughter was being asked to clean the vehicle entitled and what she saw. Cleaning a truck interior could just mean vacuuming it and wiping windows. If she saw blood or was directed to use bleach, etc., would that not have been in this document?

The affidavit does not have to be a complete transcript of all evidence found. Just enough to justify charges and bind defendants over for trial.

There is likely a huge amount of information we won't see until trial.

 

[Molly's Mom]

According to the charges (see here: Tad Cullen Affidavit and Charges | PDF ) the women were forcibly seized from Highway 95 and Road L, confined in another vehicle and transferred to another location with the intent to cause the women to be confined/imprisoned against their will. You don't talk about a dead body being imprisoned against their will, so I am taking this to mean that the women were most likely still alive (even if barely) when they were taken away from Veronica's car.

Well, I completely agree and that's why I'm confused by the amount of blood supposedly found at the scene. Not to mention VB's glasses. I agree with what you said - they were likely still alive when taken from the scene.