Found Deceased OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #5 *Arrests*

[Artis]

I'm confused because Tifany purposely never filed for custody of the grandchildren until all her methods/ploys of keeping the children away from Veronica and even Wrangler ran out, (i.e. Wrangler getting arrested and the decision to give joint custody in 2022 to Wrangler and Veronica, and unlike Wrangler, Veronica didn't give in to Tifany and continued to show up for time with her children no matter how many times Tifany made this difficult for her, cancelations, being late, accusations, Tifany's attempts to negatively influence everyone about Veronica and even her son, Wrangler and still Veronica complied completely until she could and did file for sole custody) so is this the lawyer Tifany hired when she did eventually file for custody years later because I thought that was sealed? Did they unseal this? I guess I don't see significance of him being her attorney for custody other than a last ditch effort by Tifany to pay top price at that time for his famous name on the custody paperwork because the custody battle all these years was between Veronica and Wrangler's seperate attorneys? Excuse my lack of sleep and ignorance if I'm wrong, still trying to save this pupper. Thank you everyone. I'm excited to catch up, I've missed all the updates. I'll delete this if I'm completely wrong, thank you.

Stephen Jones said he represents a lot of people in the panhandle so I don't think he's an especially big shot lawyer. When he was McVeigh's atty, he may have been court appointed. He's admired by all who followed the OKC bombing because he smelled a rat with John Doe #2 and spent his own time and money tracking down who he was. In this custody case, he was just doing what any other lawyer would do.

 

[legomonster]

BBM
Veronica had not filed for sole custody. Her attorney did an interview with NN, I believe, stating they were seeking increased visitations, and eventually felt it would lead to filing for full custody, as that was the goal.

If you listen the Stephen Jones interview, he has represented TA for quite sometime and was very aware of the years of contentious custody battle. There’s additional paperwork that has been filed we are privy too. Jones was TA’s longtime attorney!

I don't know what all documents that are still sealed and one of the two is referenced but there are several articles I can link that do talk about him representing Tifany for a custody battle. I never included a link so in case I do it incorrectly:

Attorneys in custody battle between missing woman, suspected killer speak out: Attorneys in custody battle between missing woman, suspected killer speak out

 

[Artis]

Thanks for your post. IMO, custody often brings out our fierce animal instinct to protect our young.

It reminds me of that story of Solomon - he said he would cut the baby in half so both mothers would get a share...and gave the baby to the woman who would rather the baby be cared for by another, as long as still alive.

JMO

Think of all of the custody cases that have resulted in murders, including the kids, and suicides. Very volatile stuff.

 

[ifindedout]

Adams was her maiden name.

Ironic choice of favorite song.

 

[Herat]

Ironic choice of favorite song.

Lemme guess:

Bad to the Bone
I Fought the Law and the Law Won
Folsom Prison

 

[Muddy K]

APR 16, 2024 / 05:08 PM CDT

(NewsNation) — Police Tuesday towed a white trailer belonging to one of four people charged in the death and disappearance of Kansas moms Veronica Butler and Jilian Kelley.

Police on Tuesday towed a trailer from a property with ties to Cullum. Witnesses said they saw the white trailer in the area where the women were killed.

Video @ link: ‘God’s Misfits’ group at center of Kansas missing moms case

*******

Bold/italics by me.

@Artis

That's commonly known as a stock trailer and that one looks to me to be a 24-footer. A trailer of that size - they were used in many scenes in Yellowstone - can haul a dozen cattle easily, many more pigs, etc. The width can also accommodate a small car or crossover SUV. Further, many stock trailers, though not all, have short ramps to enable livestock to load more easily. A skilled handler of a stock trailer with a ramp can drive a car into one of them; I've witnessed that myself.

I have no problem imagining that stock trailer might have been used to block the road, forcing the women onto the gravel roadway, or been intended to haul the blue Kia away, but the wording in the NewsNation article is vague to a fault. "In the area where the women were killed" could mean seen right there where the Kia and surrounding signs of mayhem were found or seen in the rented pasture, near the pre-dug hole, where the women were ultimately found, deceased. We don't yet know, unless I've missed it, precisely where VB and JK were killed.

 

[Artis]

These 4 sat and waited to be arrested for two weeks/14 days knowing they were being "looked at". Cullum was prepared to run.

So, with three of them appearing to have the funds for a sudden, large vacation, why did they all sit and wait?

I don't think those items are too unusual among a large portion of population waiting for the STHTF. In reality, how many in his position (ranch, animals, house, etc) would ever really just big out? He probably had home canned goods, batteries, lanterns, water purifier and MREs, too. Much like the Mormons.

 

[Artis]

Re-asking the obvious-- why didn't they just drive the KIA to their intended burial site? 8.5 miles..... cameras to bypass?

Just what exactly was their plan, regarding the vehicle?

We don't know what the plan was but per Cora, things didn't go according to it. Because the scene by the car was so bloody, I'm guessing the plan being derailed began there. It's possible that another car passed by and they had to concentrate on getting rid of the victims and never had time to move the car.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Adams...I suspect she remains Adams despite her many marriages because it's a powerful name in the area.

I agree. I read the father's obit
He must be rolling over and over in his grave

 

[Artis]

Brian posted last night on X he’s back in FL. I don’t think there’ll be much in the way of news for the next few weeks, unless the cause of death is released.
EBM clarification
MOO

I didn't realize that he's based in FL. They need someone in OK who lives there and is tuned into the local grapevine.

 

[Artis]

APR 16, 2024 / 05:08 PM CDT

(NewsNation) — Police Tuesday towed a white trailer belonging to one of four people charged in the death and disappearance of Kansas moms Veronica Butler and Jilian Kelley.

Police on Tuesday towed a trailer from a property with ties to Cullum. Witnesses said they saw the white trailer in the area where the women were killed.

Video @ link: ‘God’s Misfits’ group at center of Kansas missing moms case

*******

Bold/italics by me.

@Artis

That's commonly known as a stock trailer and that one looks to me to be a 24-footer. A trailer of that size - they were used in many scenes in Yellowstone - can haul a dozen cattle easily, many more pigs, etc. The width can also accommodate a small car or crossover SUV. Further, many stock trailers, though not all, have short ramps to enable livestock to load more easily. A skilled handler of a stock trailer with a ramp can drive a car into one of them; I've witnessed that myself.

I have no problem imagining that stock trailer might have been used to block the road, forcing the women onto the gravel roadway, or been intended to haul the blue Kia away, but the wording in the NewsNation article is vague to a fault. "In the area where the women were killed" could mean seen right there where the Kia and surrounding signs of mayhem were found or seen in the rented pasture, near the pre-dug hole, where the women were ultimately found, deceased. We don't yet know, unless I've missed it, precisely where VB and JK were killed.

Thanks for you valuable info on that! So, it could block the road, transport the car and the victims. It's easy to see why they brought it.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I didn't realize that he's based in FL. They need someone in OK who lives there and is tuned into the local grapevine.

Brian has become very respected, since he covered the Petito / Laundry case...I would think that is why News Nation brought him in

 

[Artis]

Brian has become very respected, since he covered the Petito / Laundry case...I would think that is why News Nation brought him in

Oh, I didn't know he covered that case. Makes sense NN would want him. I find the local reporters to be the best.

 

[Chimera]

True, but surely that can be said about any murder...and there are a lot of murders.

JMO

Yes, that's true.

What is sad is that TA and company were never in any danger or threat from either victim.
Veronica had been stalked and harassed before the murders.
She obviously was in grave danger, I wish she'd been able to escape the fate meted out to her by the deranged foursome.
Omo.

 

[Warwick7]

The phone pings.....

https://twitter.com/x/status/1781505090450252069

 

[Chimera]

These 4 sat and waited to be arrested for two weeks/14 days knowing they were being "looked at". Cullum was prepared to run.

So, with three of them appearing to have the funds for a sudden, large vacation, why did they all sit and wait?

Good question. ^^^
Maybe on the slim chance that the victims would be labeled as 'missing' and remain that way ?
There are people missing all over the world whose status sadly hasn't changed.

However, in this case :
With all of the red flags pointing at them ... not very intelligent of them.
But then they don't appear to be Mensa candidates.
Imo.
Omo.

 

[Chimera]

Adams was her maiden name.

Quite the interesting last bit ... of her 'favorite things'.
Omo.
Eta : I see @Cool Cats beat me to it !

 

[Chimera]

I got excited, but none of this is new.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1781784260677914843

https://twitter.com/x/status/1781784261936193663

At least they should be able to add, 'threatening the judge' to their sentencing ?
Omo.
Thanks for the links !

 

[Artis]

In every big murder case I've followed, all of us are always saying, "I can't believe they did this or I can't believe they did that" but I can't believe the boldness of these killers to do what they did in broad daylight, out in the wide open, on a public road. Then, apparently, Tifany entertained the idea of whacking the judge while she walked to work. They all had to have serious delusions that they were untouchable.

 

[doublestop]

I like the part where she says one of her hobbies is:

"Trying to run new cops out of town."

I thought her favorite song being "You Give Love a Bad Name" was perhaps the understatement of the year, in terms of her "love" of her grandchildren.