Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #181

[vinayd]

Watch the video. Pause it and read that section in the PCA. Then the Franks. Watch and read the next section. Pause it. Even mute it.

When you digest it like this honestly what else could have happened?

 

[DeDee]

Riddle me this:

If CC lost 70 days of interviews due to taping system user error (?) ... how many of those interviews were about entirely different cases than this case?

This 2017 case (Abby/Libby) and its investigation has been extremely protracted, but other CC cases/investigations/trials have not.

Assuming other 2017 interviews were used in other 2107 CC cases ... when did CC LE realize that 70 days of taped interviews were lost?

Was the system only for the Abby/Libby case?

I'm not certain a clear timeline of the recordings will be presented in court.

" ... the state in September said they did not have any recordings of the interviews and “offered no explanation as to why these didn’t exist,” the motion states.

Prosecutors subsequently sought to have Allen’s attorneys, Brad Rozzi and Andrew Baldwin, removed from the case. The duo were controversially removed by Special Judge Fran C. Gull in October before the Indiana Supreme Court reinstated them last month."

Hence, when the D discovered the recordings were missing, the P made a motion to have them removed from the case.

 

[layer]

It isn't graphic at all, but it is hard to watch once BG and the 2 dots representing Abby and Libby are moving together down the hill and to the crime scene.

If he left by the path shown, shouldn't there be video of him walking past that store?

 

[Megnut]

If he left by the path shown, shouldn't there be video of him walking past that store?

I've learned soooooo much from following trials here.

One video comes to mind. A woman is abducted, Iirc her murderer returned her car to her parking garage or somesuch. He walks away, captured on cctv. Unbelievably the intermittent feed times precisely to his step while behind each fencepost. Maddening.

Another. Man bludgeons his fiancée with a baseball bat in her own home. Video captures them entering. Video captures him leaving. We know he removed her body but there's just no video of it.

Another. Co-conspirator burns evidence and the only clue is the smoke from the chimeny, captured only by chance when the neighbor's security camera is triggered by their golden retriever.

Long way of saying maybe the feed from the hardware store wasn't continuous.... or maybe RA was too small and too distance to trigger motion.. Same with his car. Video glitch, obscured by another vehicle....

Is it possible someone exchanged vehicles for RA? He arrived in one. Another driver arrived, taking that vehicle and left the other for RA to drive?

All MOO

 

[Megnut]

It isn't graphic at all, but it is hard to watch once BG and the 2 dots representing Abby and Libby are moving together down the hill and to the crime scene.

This was based on the AA and the eye witness statements as well as the video time stamps for the cars coming and going. It is very well done and shows just how possible it is for 1 man to do this and for that person to be the one each witness or group of witnesses saw.

That span of time, even sped up, when his dot is alone with their dots is so chilling. Somber music hits hard.

 

[susane7]

I would guess her sketch would be less accurate than someone who physically passed him and saw his face as he went by. I wonder if she assumed he was younger because he was out on the bridge. I know I would think that if I just saw a person standing there and I turned around and walked away. I might just assume they were younger if I was asked later. I think the puffy hair she saw could have been whatever hat/hood or both he had on at that time. IF he says he didn't see anyone else then it's possible he didn't even look at her or notice she was there and turned around and went the other way.

I agree. What I was trying to say and sorry for my english (isn't my first language) it was, in my opinion, BB saw BG/RA (the man on the video). I think she is the witness who saw BG furthest away - 50 feet away - and i's possible she confuded BG's hat which probably look brownish at the sun with poofy hair. She probably saw the man on the plataform (BG) was short and deduced he looks more youngish than he really is. For example, I'm really short and I'm a woman on my 30's but from distance away some people confuded me with a teenage girl. Her descriptions of the car also is the most different from the other eyewitnesses. I feel sorry for her because she was trying to help but probably will serve to poke some holes in P's theory. If there would be a crime and I had to be a eyewitness with more 4 or 5 eyewitness I feel I would be like BB and my descriptions will varied a lot of the others. I'm awful with faces, heigh estimations, age estimations etc

My dream for this case is DD someway had recorded his interview with RA and would find it. I'm almost sure RA would be totally screwed if that's happening. But I don't think it will be hapening. So many mistakes in this investigation.

 

[Tealgrove]

Can someone let me know why someone would have so many multi tools? RA had several. Is it like carrying a pocket knife? Please point me to any threads where these were discussed.

DocumentCloud


View attachment 497992



View attachment 497991

My husband has more than that and he’s not a murderer (that I know of).

 

[Emma Peel]

I'm not certain a clear timeline of the recordings will be presented in court.

" ... the state in September said they did not have any recordings of the interviews and “offered no explanation as to why these didn’t exist,” the motion states.

Prosecutors subsequently sought to have Allen’s attorneys, Brad Rozzi and Andrew Baldwin, removed from the case. The duo were controversially removed by Special Judge Fran C. Gull in October before the Indiana Supreme Court reinstated them last month."

Hence, when the D discovered the recordings were missing, the P made a motion to have them removed from the case.

good eye, Miss @DeDee.

 

[TTF14]

I'm not certain a clear timeline of the recordings will be presented in court.

" ... the state in September said they did not have any recordings of the interviews and “offered no explanation as to why these didn’t exist,” the motion states.

Prosecutors subsequently sought to have Allen’s attorneys, Brad Rozzi and Andrew Baldwin, removed from the case. The duo were controversially removed by Special Judge Fran C. Gull in October before the Indiana Supreme Court reinstated them last month."

Hence, when the D discovered the recordings were missing, the P made a motion to have them removed from the case.

We're expected to just accept all of this.

 

[susiQ]

even more baffling. MOO
Carter = figurehead

Carter = figurehead that speaks plenty of word salad.

 

[susane7]

´

It is very well done and shows just how possible it is for 1 man to do this and for that person to be the one each witness or group of witnesses saw.

I also agree. Absolutely possibly for 1 man do that and more in that time, in my opinion. I remember that much before RA was arrested, Gray talked he heard from one source about one of the girls mentioning a gun on the video and he also said he know nothing about the crime scene but he heard that the killer spent many time at the crime scene. Seems he was right.

I also I'm awful with names so don't remember the name nor where I heard but I heard about a guy who kidnapped, raped and murdered a 8 years old girl in just 5/10 minutes. From what I recall, the girl just get away a few meters from her mother.

A ex LE/Crime scene tech who had a channel on youtube (Steve) also made a remake from the crime and he estimate it could be done by 1 person in less than a hour.

 

[layer]

My dream for this case is DD someway had recorded his interview with RA and would find it. I'm almost sure RA would be totally screwed if that's happening. But I don't think it will be hapening. So many mistakes in this investigation.

I'm not sure that's necessary at all. This trial is going to be a twisted mess, like every other part of this case has been, but ultimately I expect the state to prevail.
BTW your english is perfect!

 

[katydid23]

A random post but i was In central London and I noticed they are opening a Carhartt store and until RA’s jacket I had never even heard of the brand. So they must be growing in popularity to open a branch in the U.K.

A killer using their jacket brand hasn’t dented sales ( moo)

Carhatt has been very popular in Cali for a long time. My son and his friends wore it for 'skate wear' and street wear on the 90's.

It was originally for working class work wear and became a fashion icon type thing.


ETA:right now, watching Oxygen, Cold Justice and the murder suspect they are interrogating is wearing a blue hoodie which says CARHARTT on the sleeve...lol

Carhartt History: From Workwear to Streetwear to Vintage

Discover the history of Carhartt and how hip-hop influenced the brand to make it what it is today.

glass-onion.com

Carhartt’s identity.

carhartt history 2000s - 2010s: streetwear [originated in the 1800's]​

During this decade, Carhartt collaborated with prominent streetwear brands, such as Supreme and A.P.C., introducing limited-edition collections that further boosted its streetwear appeal. The brand's global reach expanded, and Carhartt became a staple in street style and urban fashion worldwide.

carhartt now​

As Carhartt remains a prominent part of popular culture today, it’s important to notice how the brand has remained family owned, with Hamilton’s great grandson still serving as chief executive officer. Carhartt puts its heart and soul into the construction of a long lasting garments, the reputation of quality stands with its use of triple seams and tightly woven duck canvas fabric. They’re dedication to considering layering and a wide selection of sizes leads to the brand’s success amongst a worldwide audience. Carhartt continues to sell its garments and accessories, still very much inspired by its original workwear purpose. It’s now iconic yellow logo stands out on celebrities’ streetwear, in films, music videos and model off duty looks.

 

[layer]

Carhatt has been very popular in Cali for a long time. My son and his friends wore it for 'skate wear' and street wear on the 90's.

Good stuff! Working guys wore them way back, especially the coveralls. They were "cool" for a while, I think that died when GW wore them at the ranch all the time. I have never seen any carhartt jacket that thin, I think undergarments gave people the impression it was a thicker jacket than it is. I have a twill carhartt that is thin as I've ever seen and it still seems way thicker than what BG has on to me.

 

[layer]

he’s not a murderer (that I know of).

This place will do that to you!

 

[susiQ]

Hence, when the D discovered the recordings were missing, the P made a motion to have them removed from the case.

RSABBM
How convenient!?

 

[Boxer]

dbm

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Thanks!
Gah, I hate the way these roads are labeled. So the actual road is W 300 N at approx 3:57. If the the sighting was on the north side, it would have had to have been before this road turns north and passes the CPS building.
Do we know which of the post-crime witnesses this is - the earlier or the later?

Per the PCA it’s a witness that saw him as she drove east on 300n. He was walking west on the north side and she would have been on the south side if she were obeying rules of traffic.
I believe LE stated that she didn’t come forward immediately because she was frightened. I think it was weeks later perhaps closer to a month and the OBG sketch was from her. I may have to check my notes. It’s been a while.

Perhaps in 2022 she had a flu shot at CVS made a connection? I can’t help but think someone made a connection in 2022. Just pondering
AMOOOO

I'm not certain a clear timeline of the recordings will be presented in court.

" ... the state in September said they did not have any recordings of the interviews and “offered no explanation as to why these didn’t exist,” the motion states.

Prosecutors subsequently sought to have Allen’s attorneys, Brad Rozzi and Andrew Baldwin, removed from the case. The duo were controversially removed by Special Judge Fran C. Gull in October before the Indiana Supreme Court reinstated them last month."

Hence, when the D discovered the recordings were missing, the P made a motion to have them removed from the case.

JG was the one that asked for BR and AB to withdraw on 10/19 after the distribution of crime scene photos from their law office; despite protection and gag orders.
IMO their withdrawal/DQ had to do with their heinous behavior not anything to do with tech issues under the control of a local police department from 6 years prior.
Nmc had nothing to do with the equipment or its maintenance, etc.
Many of the Odinists named in the FM were not interviewed in the room with the faulty equipment during the time it was erased. They were interviewed at their homes and or other stations and some a year later so not included in the “lost” interviews.
JMO.

 

[susane7]

I'm not sure that's necessary at all. This trial is going to be a twisted mess, like every other part of this case has been, but ultimately I expect the state to prevail.
BTW your english is perfect!

Thank you. I really hope so because I really believe they have the right man despite of all mistakes in the investigation. But I don't know if they have more direct evidence. I don't think they have DNA (I think Paul Holes or Ives said this crime will not be solved trought DNA) and even were more evidence in 2017, RA had 5 years to clean/get rid over the evidence. I don't know if the juries will understand the circunstancial/inference/indirect evidence and with so many mistakes in this investigation, I see a possibility of him walks.

 

[TL4S]

My stupid question for the day because Google gives all kinds of answers...

Do members of the military have to give DNA samples? Seems they have had to since the early 1990s? And if so, is it only for the identifying of remains, and not available to LE?