Found Deceased OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #5 *Arrests*

[Cool Cats]

Why wouldn't Brune have ridden with Veronica? Can non-custodial parents who require supervision be allowed to drive with the kids to some place to have the supervised visit and meet up with the supervisor? Or would Brune have taken the kids to Veronica?

A mother who can only have supervised visits with her children cannot take her kids in her car alone. She must have an adult "supervisor" in the car with her...... 2 Cents

 

[stormymama]

A mother who can only have supervised visits with her children cannot take her kids in her car alone. She must have an adult "supervisor" in the car with her...... 2 Cents

Understood. I was trying to understand what would have been different with Brune and JK, as some were alluding to upthread.

 

[Muddy K]

Generally, a Court Order for supervised visitation provides the names of the individuals sanctioned by the Court as supervisors, and also defines the instructions for changing the schedule and the deadline to do so. This is to prevent last minute mockery, etc.

From the AA, pages 4-5, we know that TA lied to VB when she stated that CB was not available to supervise visitation on March 30 and requested VB furnish an alternate supervisor from those previously named by the Court:
View attachment 499780View attachment 499781

This is exactly what I believed, that VB had to have a court-authorized supervisor with her on the way to the handoff, through the visit and then the return. Therefore, all that mattered to TA was that the one supervisor  she liked (Brune) would not have to be killed. Someone would have to accompany VB. Whoever it was, that person was going to be killed. Collateral damage to a heinous degree, IMO.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

I think we’ll learn Tifany intentionally didnt tell the other killers that there would be a supervisor in the car which they’d also have to kill. That’s part of the “things didn’t go as planned”.

 

[ClearAhead]

This is exactly what I believed, that VB had to have a court-authorized supervisor with her on the way to the handoff, through the visit and then the return. Therefore, all that mattered to TA was that the one supervisor  she liked (Brune) would not have to be killed. Someone would have to accompany VB. Whoever it was, that person was going to be killed. Collateral damage to a heinous degree, IMO.

Brune was given two weeks off but we don’t know what sort of arrangements were in place when she supervised in the past. If she didn’t ride along back and forth with VB, possibly indeed she delivered the children to VB, then later brought them back to TA.

But we also know TA falsely claimed VB had cancelled and that’s why the children were still with the Cooks, not with TA impatiently waiting at Four Corners for VB. By Brune not delivering the children to VB, it created the opportunity to attack her on the road as she was travelling to pick them up and if that’s the scenario, it’s the reason Brune was told not to supervise for the two weeks. However when she was cancelled TA had no control over VB bringing along another supervisor but it would seem murdering two women instead of one became just a minor technicality for the assassins.

All IMO

 

[MyBelle]

A mother who can only have supervised visits with her children cannot take her kids

Do we know if the state's department of children and family services was ever involved in this case? I'm still trying to figure out why VB had to have supervised parenting time. The reason I ask is because often in child custody cases the "side" with the most money will hire an attorney to make baseless allegations of child abuse or neglect to the court. I doubt VB had the money to hire an attorney to fight on her behalf and that of the children.

JMO

 

[CuriousCricket]

Someone would have to accompany VB. Whoever it was, that person was going to be killed. Collateral damage to a heinous degree, IMO.

Yes, someone would have to accompany VB. However, how long that person was in the car with her would vary depending on where the supervisor lived. JK lived in Hugoton, so she was along for most of the ride. However, IF Brune lived in Oklahoma, then VB would be traveling alone for a greater distance.

The pre-dug hole on land TC was leasing indicates to me the murdering Misfits had planned everything out and the plan depended on using locations they knew well and had access to.

I wonder where Ms. Brune lived that she would have been picked up from. Or if TA paid, then did TA pick her up?

 

[MyBelle]

I think we’ll learn Tifany intentionally didnt tell the other killers that there would be a supervisor in the car which they’d also have to kill. That’s part of the “things didn’t go as planned”.

It doesn't matter if TA told the others because the co-conspirators knew they were there to kill VB.

JMO

 

[tezi]

I know I am getting old, but this is probably the hardest case I have ever followed here, as far as having a helluva time keeping all the initials straight. We have a TA and TC, and then not one, but two CT's. TA's son, and the father of the children of the murdered woman, VB, is WR, and the female CT's daughter, who spilled the beans on everyone, is CW. I sometimes even have to reread posts here to make sure who is being referred to. JMO

RBBM: SteveP, you and me both! We need an erasable whiteboard or something! Thank you for the chuckles that you have given me throughout this case, I really need them!

 

[MissTilly]

if Brune was supervising, i imagine she would arrive at Four Corners first. TA would arrive with the children and then leave them with Brune and drive away. VB would arrive alone. Brune would then get into VB’s vehicle with the children and stay with them for the duration of the visit. at the end, the process would be reversed. no contact between VB and TA.
moo

 

[Cryptic]

Only my speculation: but I continue to believe that TA and possibly other members of God's misfits had specific cause to be PO'd with JK, even if such cause was flimsy or even fantasy.

I think you could well be right.

Developing a willingness to kill another individual as "collateral damage" is a tall order to fill- even for somebody with cult leader type influence.

But.... As you imply, that inherent unwillingness on the part of the other participants to kill an uninvolved person could be overcome by presenting JK as an "enemy" as well. I agree- it would not take much to make her an "enemy" in the eyes of the Misfits.

And.... for any cult, once someone is accepted as being a threat of some kind, it can become "us verse them" fast.

 

[Mary-Belle]

I think you could well be right.

Developing a willingness to kill another individual as "collateral damage" is a tall order to fill- even for somebody with cult leader type influence.

But.... As you imply, that inherent unwillingness on the part of the other participants to kill an uninvolved person could be overcome by presenting JK as an "enemy" as well. I agree- it would not take much to make her an "enemy" in the eyes of the Misfits.

And.... for any cult, once someone is accepted as being a threat of some kind, it can become "us verse them" fast.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

There are several people who should still be arrested even if it’s just a misdemeanor. Failure to Report is a punishable offense in many states. Send these enablers to prison for a year (maximum in some states) and fine them the maximum.

Some of these enablers very likely participated in the conversations exhibiting the intent to murder Veronica even though they weren’t physically at the crime scene. This might also be punishable as it supported their heinous behavior.

 

[windrower]

I can't get this to play. Someone please help! Lol!!
Which child had the birthday party??!

From the AA pg 4/7, VB was taking daughter to a birthday party:

View attachment 499762

All I’ve read is this ^^^^ above—that there was A birthday party, but I’ve not seen definitively or confirmed by family or LE that the party was for one of VB’s children.

If there is confirmation, I’d love to see it.

Early on, a lady who spoke to VB about that Saturday visit was interviewed and said VB was excited for the birthday party, and the lady either said or intimated it was a party for one of VB’s children. I don’t have the link handy, sorry.

However, to my knowledge, her account was never verified by family or LE, and yet it is now stated as fact.

IMO.

Help? Maybe @Seattle1 knows more?

Although, it really doesn’t matter to me in the arc of this tragedy, other than I like facts to be factual.

 

[shefner]

Let's face it, these participants didn't mind at all killing JK. It didn't bother them that she was a pastor's wife. It's possible it even pleased some of them, if they viewed her religious affiliation inferior to their own (Cora's comment to her daughter reflects this mentality). These suspects were able to justify anything at anytime because they're delusional zealots. They're fanatical miscreants.

One of the reasons they had so many helpers present was likely due to the group knowledge that there would be two victims instead of one. There were 5 stun guns.

I believe the complication was the unexpected actions by these two brave victims, who fought back. The suspects might not have cared that blood evidence was present in the car if they were anticipating removing the car and hiding it (or burying it). But the pools of blood at the scene? I don't think they planned for that. And obviously they were never able to retrieve the victims' car. So something went wrong.

 

[Gae]

But the pools of blood at the scene?

Was "pools of blood" ever confirmed? We heard that very early on from "unnamed sources" and people picked up on it and ran with it, but was it confirmed? That's a heck of a lot of blood, which would lead me to believe knives were used. I can see some blood outside the car, if they were bludgeoned, but "pools" sounds like major arteries were sliced wide open.

 

[SteveP]

All I’ve read is this ^^^^ above—that there was A birthday party, but I’ve not seen definitively or confirmed by family or LE that the party was for one of VB’s children.

If there is confirmation, I’d love to see it.

Early on, a lady who spoke to VB about that Saturday visit was interviewed and said VB was excited for the birthday party, and the lady either said or intimated it was a party for one of VB’s children. I don’t have the link handy, sorry.

However, to my knowledge, her account was never verified by family or LE, and yet it is now stated as fact.

IMO.

Help? Maybe @Seattle1 knows more?

Although, it really doesn’t matter to me in the arc of this tragedy, other than I like facts to be factual.

It is not confirmation from family or LE, but I found this report, although the source is not named. I am not fond of anonymous sources usually, but given the circumstances and area, I can understand someone being hesitant to be named when giving any information at all in this case.

A person close to Butler, who asked to remain anonymous, told KVII that Butler was supposed to pick up her 6-year-old daughter and 8-year-old son in Eva, Oklahoma to celebrate her daughter's birthday.

Source: Mom, preacher's wife picking up young kids for birthday party when they vanished

Veronica Butler, 27, and 39-year-old Jillian Kelley were reported missing Saturday.

wpde.com

 

[Arkay]

Developing a willingness to kill another individual as "collateral damage" is a tall order to fill- even for somebody with cult leader type influence.

I imagine that TA believed she was embroiled in a war with VB, and as in any war, there would be collateral damage.

Just speculating, of course.

 

[Sundog]

I never understood why JK "just supporting" VB would be a motive for murder.

I think TA lied to her friends about JK.

TA says that JK was not innocent because she supported VB and thus deserved to die. But I think this was a lie TA told her friends to get them to kill JK. Exaggerating JK's support that it was support that hurt the kids.

Why lie to get them to kill JK?

Because there was no possible way to get VB alone to kill her, they had tried to do this to no avail. So to kill VB it could only be done with a custody supervisor with her. TA did not want her chosen custody supervisor Brune to be killed so she asked VB to bring along her own custody supervisor.

TA was willing to kill JK just to be able to kill VB. The equivalent of killing an innocent witness at the scene of a crime.

2 Cents

I also think that TA and the other misfits saw JK as a representative of the government (CPS) and that made it easier for them to dehumanize and demonize her in their minds. It was the government/CPS that was going to take the children away and place them in an unsafe envirnment in their minds. That made what they planned to do a mission, and not just an accidental bystander murder. JMO.

 

[Warwick7]

Was "pools of blood" ever confirmed? We heard that very early on from "unnamed sources" and people picked up on it and ran with it, but was it confirmed? That's a heck of a lot of blood, which would lead me to believe knives were used. I can see some blood outside the car, if they were bludgeoned, but "pools" sounds like major arteries were sliced wide open.

Here Brian says large puddles of blood.
And head wounds can be a site of profuse bleeding.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1783549481524605141