GUILTY PA - Holly Grim, 41, Wescosville, 22 Nov 2013 #1 *Arrest*

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Elainera said:
Was this posted already? Her Namus profile.

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/22753/0/

Gives also clothing description, and some additional photos I hadn't seen yet.
Click to expand...

Viewing this NamUs profile... it reminds me...

Have we ever found out WHO it was that last saw her... On her driveway?

ETA... and... It could be helpful if this person who last saw her could report Holly's state of mind...actions... Behaviors...

was she seemingly calm/collected?

or did she seem preoccupied/worried/frantic/etc.?

:waitasec:
 
FindTheWhy said:
Holly has 5 brothers who are living, and one who is deceased. One of the brothers lives with Holly's mother.

A mother should never lose one child let alone two. This is another thing that makes my heart break for her mother. She already lost a son, and now possibly her only daughter.
Click to expand...

We've just had another case w/ mom who's now lost three - one shot and killed, one to cancer very young, and now another under suspicious circumstances (It's the Jamisha Gilbert case).

Tragedies upon tragedies for some of these families :(
 
Elainera said:
bbm

In the fb group they say they searched "grange wooded area around grange, searched the abandoned trailer there were like 10 or 11, searched the (retention) pond" and "As far as Grange road goes everything that was covered yesterday got rechecked today and we finished past faust junkyard right to the highway".

Is that not the area she vanished from?
Click to expand...

They are certainly the areas our SAR expert was very keen should be searched - I recall those retention ponds being mentioned early on, and me not being able to find them on google. I'm really glad that's been done.

I once posted about a wooden terrace I varnished, and a mysterious animal called a waschbare and human footprints across it in the morning. Only half the story though as it was too long. A SAR poster spotted it and came back with a load of questions, and answers, straight away. I knew the rest of the story already, and I could see the SAR poster was working out where there were gaps, and what had happened, without me even saying. It was an amazing example of how valuable SAR wisdom can be, to me.

(I also found out what a waschbare is. US posters knew the moment I posted this pic http://www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/display/19396800)
 
I think there may be a connection with car -racing communities in this case. If Holly isn't found soon, it might be worth turning to them. In another case here, a young racer put the name of a missing woman all over his car and it got lots of media and public attention.
 
Wondering why there are disorganized searches going on when Greater Philadelphia Search and Rescue is only a few miles away and probably could have been there this past weekend. There are no less than three SAR teams within a two hour drive including a mounted team.
 
Elainera said:
bbm

In the fb group they say they searched "grange wooded area around grange, searched the abandoned trailer there were like 10 or 11, searched the (retention) pond" and "As far as Grange road goes everything that was covered yesterday got rechecked today and we finished past faust junkyard right to the highway".

Is that not the area she vanished from?
Click to expand...

On Saturday they met at Macungie Park and searched that area.
This is also evidenced by the article linked previously that says searchers witnessed the accident in Macungie.

The next day they searched near her home. That search was initiated by a different person.

I'm sorry I did not make that differentiation earlier. I was referring to Saturday's search as not being near where she was last seen, and being organized by a person who implied they know who did it.
 
I hope this isn't a case of people being afraid to ask, or thinking they are not allowed to ask for help. Is this the website?

http://www.gpsar.org/

ETA: wonder if that 'emergency search, help needed' on the first page is for Holly?
 
BBM

FindTheWhy said:
On Saturday they met at Macungie Park and searched that area.
This is also evidenced by the article linked previously that says searchers witnessed the accident in Macungie.

The next day they searched near her home. That search was initiated by a different person.

I'm sorry I did not make that differentiation earlier. I was referring to Saturday's search as not being near where she was last seen, and being organized by a person who implied they know who did it.
Click to expand...

This worries me, with whoever did this to Holly still being out there somewhere.
 
zwiebel said:
They are certainly the areas our SAR expert was very keen should be searched - I recall those retention ponds being mentioned early on, and me not being able to find them on google. I'm really glad that's been done.

I once posted about a wooden terrace I varnished, and a mysterious animal called a waschbare and human footprints across it in the morning. Only half the story though as it was too long. A SAR poster spotted it and came back with a load of questions, and answers, straight away. I knew the rest of the story already, and I could see the SAR poster was working out where there were gaps, and what had happened, without me even saying. It was an amazing example of how valuable SAR wisdom can be, to me.

(I also found out what a waschbare is. US posters knew the moment I posted this pic http://www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/display/19396800)
Click to expand...

Cute critters, the waschbare..... Yes... We get raccoons (another name for them) strolling through our backyard periodically!

I live in California...

:)
 
zwiebel said:
I hope this isn't a case of people being afraid to ask, or thinking they are not allowed to ask for help. Is this the website?

http://www.gpsar.org/

ETA: wonder if that 'emergency search, help needed' on the first page is for Holly?
Click to expand...

Yes, that is their website. They are very experienced.
 
Interjecting a bit of personal experience here:

For some reason I cannot fathom, LE and/or local officials generally call the Fire Department for Searches rather than a trained SAR team.

Fire Departments are outstanding at fighting fires, not so much at SAR as they are 95% of the time not trained in SAR technology. They tend to use the old finger tip to fingertip line search method...if they even use any method of all. It's a "territorial thing" that they don't want any other emergency service operating on "their turf" (Mah boys can handle this here little search) and I have seen more critical criminal and search evidence destroyed by them tromping all around and destroying the prints and push downs that tell the story of what occurred at the PLS. Even LE who have no concept of print evidence end up destroying prints. As the saying goes, if I had a nickle for every time I have seen this, I would be rich.....
 
A mounted unit just brought home a missing senior in AZ. Searches had been going on a week, and they found her the first day of searching, within a mile of her vehicle. In an area previously searched. It came too late to save her, sadly. :(

I know nothing about riding a horse but the terrain in Holly's case looks quite suited to a mounted search, to my inexperienced eyes.

And quite relevant to what you've just said, Trackergd, there was only one set of footprints leading away from the vehicle, but authorities believed they did not belong to the senior.
 
Thank goodness for this mounted unit being brought in. Wish it had come sooner.

Have we determined if Holly or her son had a computer in their residence? I'm sure if they did, its been checked. But it seems the online world has opened up a whole new world of predators finding a way into random people's lives.
 
zwiebel said:
And quite relevant to what you've just said, Trackergd, there was only one set of footprints leading away from the vehicle, but authorities believed they did not belong to the senior.
Click to expand...

And a Tracker could have told you if that individual was carrying her body, and later (after the body was put down) how much that individual weighed, probably how tall, what size shoe, what type of shoe, developed a detailed print map to find out what brand shoe, if the individual had ever had some sort of foot or leg injury, male or female, if they were left or right handed, how fast they were moving, if they were carrying a pack, bag or firearm...and a lot more.
 
Trackergd said:
Wondering why there are disorganized searches going on when Greater Philadelphia Search and Rescue is only a few miles away and probably could have been there this past weekend. There are no less than three SAR teams within a two hour drive including a mounted team.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your input Trackergd.
I am wondering why they haven't also.
What are other reasons (besides turf coverting) that officials don't bring S&R in?
The teams are so close to the area!

I hope that any public/volunteer organized searches that are going on now are taking notes and photos and logging their searches and who is on the search - gathering information as they go.

.
 
Ok Holly back to page one for you!

I think they will find her close to home!
Search search search!
 
FigTree said:
Thanks for your input Trackergd.
I am wondering why they haven't also.
What are other reasons (besides turf coverting) that officials don't bring S&R in?
The teams are so close to the area!

I hope that any public/volunteer organized searches that are going on now are taking notes and photos and logging their searches and who is on the search - gathering information as they go.

.
Click to expand...

1. Turf.
2. Lack of knowledge about SAR and available SAR resources.
3. Lack of knowledge about forensic evidence.
4. Rush to look like they are doing "something" coupled with 2 and 3.

Once you get outside of a major city in PA, some of the police departments are pretty much podunk, yet have a high regard of themselves. There are a few good ones that are very professional. Some squabble between themselves about the territorial "line" much as the FD's do. What has me scratching my head is that the major SAR teams are on the PA State Police call list...and so am I. State Parks calls SAR in rather quickly...LE and FD/EMS, not so much.
 
I have one question?????

Did BF spend the night often?
I know so women don't want Bf there overnight cause of their kids! No matter how long they have been together. Nor how old the kids are!

Just a question1
 
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