Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#8

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Amber29 said:
Well in your opinion it's a mistake

IMO it's a lie , she's as capable as everyone of us at looking at the phone records. She's had years to get her "facts" straight but she she's still inventing the best truth she can think of.

MC also thinks she committed murder does she believe her about that to?
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It's hard to take that question seriously.
 
Allusonz said:
Back to the AK lying again. Except now RS is being accused of it.

This is a consistent pattern when presented with facts which are known.

Even when repeatedly I have shown things that have been posted to be false. If this is what one requires to fall back on to prove someones guilt, then I don't believe this case is being looked at objectively. It only tells me that some are cherry picking parts that support their theory, not the actual evidence.

MOO
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I could say the exact same thing.

It's a consistent pattern from people who support their innocence to make up every excuse possible for them and put the blame on anyone but them.

I showed how amanda Knox invented a phone call for her book. Its written off as the prosecutors fault because amanda isn't capable of looking at her own phone records before making up something for her book.

Now if that's being objective then we must have 2 different versions.

MOO
 
MichaelSmith said:
Don't people have the right to disagree with judges and the court?

Do you agree with Massei that Guede knocked on the door while Amanda & Raffaele were having sex, they let the virtual stranger in and went back to having more sex and he gets all horny so he makes a move on Meredith and they decided to assist him in raping and killing her?

Really?
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Speaking for myself, no, I don't agree fully with the prosecutor's theory. Which is just that, a theory. I think we all know how to separate theory from the evidence. We can look at the evidence and reach our own conclusions about what MIGHT have happened, or we can even look at the evidence and be able to come to a decision on guilt or not-guilt, but still don't know what exactly happened that night.

It's not accurate that just because someone is "pro-guilt," that that automatically means they agree with 100% every single word that comes out of the prosecutor's mouth. That is just an excuse people like to use to dismiss all pro-guilters, and it's not accurate and actually it's kind of condescending, IMO.
 
Has anyone been able to come up with a time the students are even suppose to have left Raffaele's and headed to the cottage to murder Meredith?

Guede is the cottage from around 8pm before Amanda got the text and Jovana Popovic saw them at 8.40pm and the movie ended at 9.10pm then Naruto opened 9.26pm ending 9.40pm. The murder is over.

Worth pointing out Raffaele has deposited a new report from his computer expert at the current trial that hasn't been made public yet but I did notice Crini made reference in his closing arguments to ANOTHER movie that was watched that night except the machine translation was a bit hard to understand. We'll have to wait and hear his lawyers tell us about it next week.
 
otto said:
Thanks for the link ... on the same transcript, we see what Knox has to say about her towel:

"Okay. I can't remember if I brushed my teeth before or after taking a shower. I think...before...I don't remember. I did brush my teeth, but I don't know if it was before or after the shower. Anyway, I got into the shower, took the shower, and then, getting out of the shower, I used the bathmat to kind of hop over to my room, because I had forgotten my towel. Then I took my towel, returned to the bathroom, dried myself and put my earrings back in. Then I went into my room, got some clothes and dressed."

She forgot her towel, meaning that she did not expect her towel to be in the bathroom ... meaning that she kept her towel in her bedroom. Back to Guede's self-serving remark about getting Meredith's towels from the bathroom ... I don't believe that Meredith kept her towels in the bathroom either.
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That is a very good point, Otto.

So basically what I'm getting is that Rudy just wanted to say he got the towels so that he could pretend to "help" Meredith, but he actually didn't, which is why he made the mistake of saying they were in the bathroom, which was not where they were usualy kept. He never got the towels, IMO.
 
SMK said:
Maybe the blood-soaked towels were so that he would not drip much outside the bedroom.
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Umm, what would be the point of "not dripping outside the bedroom"?

I don't think some people understand the concept, at times, that GUEDE DID NOT LIVE IN THAT HOUSE. Why would he care whether the bedroom was bloody, but the hallway and bathroom were clean?

Did he not realize that investigators would conclude MURDER even if the scene wasn't contained to just the bedroom? DId he think, if they found no blood in hallway/bathroom, they would dismiss the case or throw their hands up and fugetta bout it?

The only, THE ONLY, reason any clean-up in the hallway/bathroom makes sense is if it was done by people associated with Meredith, who would be connected to Meredith in some way after the discovery of the body.
 
aa9511 said:
Umm, what would be the point of "not dripping outside the bedroom"?

I don't think some people understand the concept, at times, that GUEDE DID NOT LIVE IN THAT HOUSE. Why would he care whether the bedroom was bloody, but the hallway and bathroom were clean?

Did he not realize that investigators would conclude MURDER even if the scene wasn't contained to just the bedroom? DId he think, if they found no blood in hallway/bathroom, they would dismiss the case or throw their hands up and fugetta bout it?

The only, THE ONLY, reason any clean-up in the hallway/bathroom makes sense is if it was done by people associated with Meredith, who would be connected to Meredith in some way after the discovery of the body.
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I think Guede did a little clean up just like locking Meredith's door to delay discovery of the body. Seems pretty straight forward and something a lot of criminals would do to buy time. He didn't know if someone would come home after he left and there'd be a massive man hunt that night.
 
Allusonz said:
This once again is a complete misrepresentation of the facts and I must enquire when is it going to stop? This time I am asking for cites, and if they are not forthcoming, I will be asking to admit to being misinformed.

AK and RS did not arrive at the police station between 10:30 and 11:00. They arrived hours earlier, and according to RS he was being interrogated for at least 5 hours. During this time AK was working on her assignments. During the course of the long wait, of approximately 5 hours, AK needed to stretch, and proceeded to do some yoga. stretches etc. After a number of hours of being observed, this is the best that PLE could come up with? Yoga stretching? Seriously?

AK was on the phone with Filomena, when PLE (remember it was decided many threads ago to distinguish between Italian Law Enforcement abbreviated to ILE, and Perugia Law Enforcement abbreviated to PLE) informed AK that they wished to speak with her.

Please refer to the 10:29 call with Filomena while she was at the police station.

If by your assertion, AK had made a confession by 1:30 a.m., the interrogation would of stopped and there would of been no need for the later statement. This should be ANYONE's first clue. Once LE gets the statement the interrogation stops. There were NO english statements. The statement was translated from Italian to English, then back to Italian, over and over.

Anyone would know that AK and RS were suspects from the start, as per Mignini stating all their calls had been tapped. That is commen sense.

I repeatedly request cites, yet they are never forthcoming thus I am now going to insist on them, if factual information is contradicted again. These version of events continue to morph, and it simply must stop. We have to work off of the facts that are known

RS never changed his version. As he states in this interview, PLE would not clarify which day they wanted information. This was done on purpose, not in the name of justice for MK, but to support a theory they had. As well, RS states at approximately 11:14 in this interview, the fact that AK had by then been waiting 5 hours.

BBC HARDtalk - Raffaele Sollecito (5/9/13) - YouTube
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So asking people to cite to "facts," yet you cite Raffaele's interview as a "fact"? What he says is not fact. He can say the sky is green and water is orange, does that mean we have to believe him? He has the MOST incentive, along with Amanda, to lie. And yet I see REPEATEDLY on this thread people quoting Amanda and Raffaele's VERSIONS of the their "truth" as "facts."

Do they not have the most incentive to lie, out of everyone? More than prosecutors, more than witnesses, more than lab techhies, and so on?
 
Allusonz said:
Why would there be blood splatter in the bathroom? That is not the room MK was murdered in.

Why could there not be towels in both the room and bathroom?
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Spatter as in the spatter of water as he was rinsing off pants or doing whatever he was doing in the bathroom. I get spatter of water over the sink area, usually, every time I even wash my hands. And so we are not expecting him to, after being a horrific monster in one room, to come into the bathroom and be all tidy-princess? I don't think so. There would have bloody water spatter from when he was rinsing his pants, washing his hands, or any of the other myriad of things suggested that he was doing in the bathroom.
 
MichaelSmith said:
At this point (nov 4) Amanda didn't know Guede had taken her towel and it was in Meredith's bedroom soaked in blood so she assumed she had forgotten it imo.
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That is putting words in her mouth. Speaking for her. Making excuses for her. Trying to put things into her brain.

I try to understand how can one look at the case from a clear perspective, if one takes on an "advocate" role for one of the central people in the case.

I don't think it's really possible, IMO.
 
Harmony2 said:
Massei report:
http://truejustice.org/ee/documents/perugia/TheMasseiReport.pdf

Rinaldi report:
http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Rinaldi_&_Boemia_Photo_Appendix

Vinci report:
http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/Vinci.pdf

Italian Supreme Court:
http://www.thefreelancedesk.com/wp-...ning-on-Amanda-Knox-Case_-English-Version.pdf

Galati -Costagliola Prosecution Appeal Supreme Court of cassation:
http://thefreelancedesk.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Galati_cassation_English1.pdf

pdf files:
http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/PDF-Files.html

Stephanoni power point
http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/testimonianza2.pdf

lists of books about the case:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...knox+story&sprefix=amanda+knox,stripbooks,243

galleries of crime scene photos:

warning: graphic

http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/gallery/album.php?album_id=42

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/PhotoGallery.html
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Bumping up this post since new links have been added and may come in handy....Please be sure to continue linking to facts, photos and attached thumbnails. :seeya:
 
MichaelSmith said:
I see it differently. Comodi lied and mislead the court about a phone call that doesn't exist and Amanda has made a mistake in her book because of Comodi's lie.
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There is no evidence that it is a mistake. We cannot go into Amanda's brain and re-program it to include all the backstory for her "mistake." So that she "understands" why it is just a mistake. We just cannot do that.
 
aa9511 said:
That is putting words in her mouth. Speaking for her. Making excuses for her. Trying to put things into her brain.

I try to understand how can one look at the case from a clear perspective, if one takes on an "advocate" role for one of the central people in the case.

I don't think it's really possible, IMO.
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If her towel was missing from the bathroom I don't think Amanda would assume it was behind the locked door soaked in her friends blood, she would have thought she forgot her towel......that's what she said.
 
Amber29 said:
So now we have AK inventing a phone call to her mother along with detailed conversation that there is absolutely no record of for her book.
Which is proved false based on her trial testimony and phone records
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Of course prosecutor Comodi was merely mistaken when she invented the phone call in the courtroom, wasn't she? :)
 
I think that the interrogation statements are not a very convenient topic for some of the prosecution supporters.

It's because they and the circumstances of their acquisition have all characteristics of coerced false confession.

http://www.npr.org/2013/12/05/248968150/beyond-good-cop-bad-cop-a-look-at-real-life-interrogations

... If you're held in a room and you think there's no way out, but you're sure that the justice system will eventually exonerate you, you might actually confess just to get out of the situation. When you're in a situation where [your] denial is batted away no matter what you say and they start lowering the barrier of confession ... it becomes the easy way out. Interestingly, naive people, with faith in the justice system, tend to confess more because they're sure something will work out on the other side. The trouble is confession trumps everything. Even physical evidence will bend once somebody's confessed because confessions are so compelling.
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http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/507/confessions

Former DC police detective Jim Trainum tells reporter Saul Elbein about how his first murder investigation went horribly wrong. He and his colleagues pinned the crime on the wrong woman, and it took 10 years and a revisit to her videotaped confession to realize how much, unbeknownst to Jim at the time, he was one of the main orchestrators of the botched confession. (28 minutes)



The interrogations of Amanda and Raffaele are the key to understanding what really happened, what went wrong in this investigation. I think the mere thought that the investigators are fallible, that their mistake can and often does have life and death consequences is very uncomfortable. I can understand that from there comes the need to vehemently deny any wrongdoing or even mistake of the authorities.
 
Amber29 said:
So now we have AK inventing a phone call to her mother along with detailed conversation that there is absolutely no record of for her book.
Which is proved false based on her trial testimony and phone records

And RS reinventing the timeline of the last visist to the police station some years later.
Contrary to what has been being reported for years even by some pro innocence reporters.

Now it's being stated as "fact" because it's what RS claims in an interview.

IMO just because the defendant makes claims doesn't mean it's the truth and can't be stated as fact with only RS as a source.
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Knox is inventing phone calls? Why?
 
MichaelSmith said:
If her towel was missing from the bathroom I don't think Amanda would assume it was behind the locked door soaked in her friends blood, she would have thought she forgot her towel......that's what she said.
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Knox forgot to bring her towel with her when she decided to have a shower the morning after having a shower the night before, and making forgettable phone calls. When she got out of the shower, she realized that she "forgot her towel" ... she kept her towel in her bedroom and forgot her towel in her bedroom when she took a morning shower while Meredith lay dead behind the wall.
 
http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/2008-01-03_Eng.pdf

Findings related to the home of Rudy Herman Guede:

148) 3 samples of presumed blood substance carried out on a towel found in the bathroom: DNA analysis have provided a profile attributed to Rudy Guede.

149) sampling performed on the plastic filter sink drain: analysis with TMB to the nature of the track blood gave a positive result, the DNA analysis have provided a profile attributable to Rudy Guede.

150) n.3 campionature eseguite su un pantalone jeans: le analisi del DNA hanno fornito profili incompleti anche misti, tuttavia apparentemente riconducibili a Rudy Guede; le analisi sono ancora in corso.

151) sampling of a ticket to an exhibition "Chagall Wonderland" to a Roman museum in May 2007: an analysis with TMB to the nature of the track blood gave a positive result, the DNA analysis have provided a profile attributable to Rudy Guede.
 
MichaelSmith said:
http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/2008-01-03_Eng.pdf

Findings related to the home of Rudy Herman Guede:

148) 3 samples of presumed blood substance carried out on a towel found in the bathroom: DNA analysis have provided a profile attributed to Rudy Guede.

149) sampling performed on the plastic filter sink drain: analysis with TMB to the nature of the track blood gave a positive result, the DNA analysis have provided a profile attributable to Rudy Guede.

150) n.3 campionature eseguite su un pantalone jeans: le analisi del DNA hanno fornito profili incompleti anche misti, tuttavia apparentemente riconducibili a Rudy Guede; le analisi sono ancora in corso.

151) sampling of a ticket to an exhibition "Chagall Wonderland" to a Roman museum in May 2007: an analysis with TMB to the nature of the track blood gave a positive result, the DNA analysis have provided a profile attributable to Rudy Guede.
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That's a suspicious lack of Meredith's blood for someone who went home drenched and dripping her blood without cleaning himself up at all at the cottage bathroom.
 
One of the lies that the prosecution tried to work into their case was that Amanda and Raffaele were absolutely not suspected. That their statements on the interrogation night emerged out of the blue.

Important part of that was coaching of each and every local cop who testified to say that Amanda wasn't even called to the station when she signed the catastrophic statements.

That plan blew apart when Edgardo Giobbi, chief investigator from Rome testified a few months later.

He said that he gave an order to bring both Amanda and Raffaele to the station to be interrogated in separate rooms at the same time on the night of November 5. He confirmed that he is "mathematically certain" about it.

Transcript of 29 May 2009:
http://www.amandaknox.com/the-meredith-kercher-murder/
 
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