GUILTY PA - Holly Grim, 41, Wescosville, 22 Nov 2013 #1 Arrest

IHAVENOCLUE · Dec 20, 2013

I usually do not like to present my full theory on cases...

Partly because I have been wrong so many times ...:blushing:

But... I feel that with the following bits of information we have...

- Holly was last seen outside her home... On her driveway... Yet LE/MSM has not clarified who saw her... Or if she was with someone...

- Multiple comments on FB indicate that there was an altercation and/or she was seen being dragged away...

- Again... Comment that Holly had an altercation with someone known to her...

-Admittedly... Comments on FB and anyplace else are RUMOR ONLY per TOS... And understandably so... But... "Where there is smoke... There is fire"... And with multiple, similar comments... This may very well be true... But LE, for their probably very good reason, wishes not to disclose this information...

Therefore ...
I have a strong feeling that LE knows who is responsible for Holly's disappearance...

That it is someone known to her (and people in close proximity to her)... And that LE is trying first to find Holly...

And LE is watching someone VERY closely for hints/clues/behaviors...

All to apprehend a perp...

ALL JMO...

zwiebel · Dec 20, 2013

The other missing Lower Macungie woman, Alexis Doll, has been located safe and well.....and Lt Vincent D'Angelo has made a couple of comments about Holly's case in the article too!

http://lowermacungie.patch.com/grou...missing-lower-macungie-woman-found-police-say

zwiebel · Dec 20, 2013

I should have added the Lt said they 'would love to hear from anyone with any information about Holly' and they have 'no vehicle' associated with her case.

zwiebel · Dec 20, 2013

I really get the impression from police that they believe someone has important information, (aside from any abductor).

I hope they come forward for their own sake, if they do. If anyone comes forward because they know something, even if it's bad, it will still look much better than waiting for police to knock on the door.

zwiebel · Dec 20, 2013

This will be hard for Holly's family, with another woman so close by being found. They'll be glad for Alexis, of course. But they'll be wishing Holly could be found too. I hope Alexis' supporters can spare a thought for Holly, and maybe share her flyer.

zwiebel · Dec 20, 2013

There is something about the timeline in this case, that I haven't quite put my finger on;

6.36 am: Holly's son's bus picks up at 6.36 am. Holly walked him to the stop.
6.34am: Police state she was seen back on her drive at 6.33 or 6.34am. (It's so unusual to have such an exact time, unless it's from cctv footage. How did they get that.?)
Unknown: Meanwhile, Holly's mom had phoned her as usual, and received no answer.
7am: So she went to the house and arrived there at 7am.

What is puzzling me is what time did Holly's mom call? It must have been later than 6.34, as Holly was back at home then and could have answered. But remembering the school bus doesn't come until 6.36, I wouldn't have thought Holly's mom would have been alarmed until about 6.40/45 if there was no answer. She'd have thought Holly might be still walking back from the bus.

That could mean
Holly was on her drive at 6.33/34
Holly was not answering her phone at 6.40/45

And that it is possible she may have disappeared within five minutes, not half an hour.

If Holly's mom called her BEFORE the time Holly usually walked to the bus, and got no answer, that could have raised an alarm of course. But then why wouldn't Holly have answered the phone then?

I was also thinking that if people didn't see a car, it might not be because there wasn't one. It could be that the car was so familiar and normally in a place nearby, so it just didn't register.

FigTree · Dec 20, 2013

zwiebel said:
I should have added the Lt said they 'would love to hear from anyone with any information about Holly' and they have 'no vehicle' associated with her case.

My bold...
I think this is the Main Stream Medias way of saying something without saying anything (if you know what I mean). I think this is substantial as I don't think she left the park - or went far.
If something happened to Holly, I think it happened within the boundary's of her property - or very close to it, and I think (seeing that they haven't found her) that Holly has been moved, and very quickly after she went missing.
She was reported missing so quickly too - regardless of habitual timelines - did her mother check other neighbors houses to see if Holly was visiting someone else?
To see the coffee cup knocked over and the coffee table out of place, I think there was a already something going on in Holly's life which set alarm bells ringing immediately that something was wrong.

I think Holly has been removed from where she was after the fact, and that LE is watching, watching, watching.

Just another aside thought...
Did LE check the contents of the cup?
Was Holly drugged and removed from her home quietly?
It might explain the table movement if Holly was dragged from her home.
Just My Opinion...

.

Treelights · Dec 20, 2013

zwiebel said:
There is something about the timeline in this case, that I haven't quite put my finger on;

6.36 am: Holly's son's bus picks up at 6.36 am. Holly walked him to the stop.
6.34am: Police state she was seen back on her drive at 6.33 or 6.34am. (It's so unusual to have such an exact time, unless it's from cctv footage. How did they get that.?)
Unknown: Meanwhile, Holly's mom had phoned her as usual, and received no answer.
7am: So she went to the house and arrived there at 7am.

What is puzzling me is what time did Holly's mom call? It must have been later than 6.34, as Holly was back at home then and could have answered. But remembering the school bus doesn't come until 6.36, I wouldn't have thought Holly's mom would have been alarmed until about 6.40/45 if there was no answer. She'd have thought Holly might be still walking back from the bus.

That could mean
Holly was on her drive at 6.33/34
Holly was not answering her phone at 6.40/45

And that it is possible she may have disappeared within five minutes, not half an hour.

If Holly's mom called her BEFORE the time Holly usually walked to the bus, and got no answer, that could have raised an alarm of course. But then why wouldn't Holly have answered the phone then?

I was also thinking that if people didn't see a car, it might not be because there wasn't one. It could be that the car was so familiar and normally in a place nearby, so it just didn't register.

This has been brought up several times on the thread, and it bears repeating,

"Grim's relatives said they believe something bad happened to her on Nov. 22 between 6:33 a.m., when she drove her teenage son, Zach, to the bus stop, and 7 a.m., when her mother stopped at her mobile home to check on her."

Read more: http://www.mcall.com/news/breaking/...y-grim-20131129,0,3111221.story#ixzz2o4HCYdr0
Follow us: @mcall on Twitter | mcall.lv on Facebook

This article states that Holly DROVE her son to the bus stop, not walked him to the bus stop. So I would think she would have also driven herself home from the bus stop, not walked home from the bus stop.

IMOO.

IHAVENOCLUE · Dec 20, 2013

zwiebel said:
There is something about the timeline in this case, that I haven't quite put my finger on;

6.36 am: Holly's son's bus picks up at 6.36 am. Holly walked him to the stop.
6.34am: Police state she was seen back on her drive at 6.33 or 6.34am. (It's so unusual to have such an exact time, unless it's from cctv footage. How did they get that.?)
Unknown: Meanwhile, Holly's mom had phoned her as usual, and received no answer.
7am: So she went to the house and arrived there at 7am.

What is puzzling me is what time did Holly's mom call? It must have been later than 6.34, as Holly was back at home then and could have answered. But remembering the school bus doesn't come until 6.36, I wouldn't have thought Holly's mom would have been alarmed until about 6.40/45 if there was no answer. She'd have thought Holly might be still walking back from the bus.

That could mean
Holly was on her drive at 6.33/34
Holly was not answering her phone at 6.40/45

And that it is possible she may have disappeared within five minutes, not half an hour.

If Holly's mom called her BEFORE the time Holly usually walked to the bus, and got no answer, that could have raised an alarm of course. But then why wouldn't Holly have answered the phone then?

I was also thinking that if people didn't see a car, it might not be because there wasn't one. It could be that the car was so familiar and normally in a place nearby, so it just didn't register.

Thank you for this timeline of the morning of Holly's disappearance! :tyou:

There were questions regarding whether Holly DROVE or WALKED her son to the school bus stop...

In the article below, it states that Holly DROVE her son to the school bus stop...

This may bring a little more clarification to the timeline... though there are still so many unanswered questions...

http://articles.mcall.com/2013-11-29/news/mc-c-lower-macungie-missing-
holly-grim-20131129_1_bus-stop-lower-macungie-township-mobile-home

Lower Macungie missing woman's family believes she was abducted

"Grim's relatives said they believe something bad happened to her on Nov. 22 between 6:33 a.m., when she drove her teenage son, Zach, to the bus stop, and 7 a.m., when her mother stopped at her mobile home to check on her."

BBM...

A little more at link above...

JMO

IHAVENOCLUE · Dec 20, 2013

Oops! Double Post...

AND... Treelights beat me to it!

:seeya:

Treelights · Dec 20, 2013

IHAVENOCLUE said:
Oops! Double Post...

AND... Treelights beat me to it!

:seeya:

Like I mentioned in my post, It bears repeating.

You know what they say...Great minds think alike!

Cherry · Dec 20, 2013

It doesnt work for me that in the space of less than a half hour her mother is "concerned" and drives over there. Why was she concerned, and why did she drive over there so quickly? There obviously is much more to this case. Much More.

I have two things on my mind: Her relationship with her son; was it good? And, what on earth could have disturbed her mother so much so that in the space of less than one half hour she felt the NEED to drive over there?
This doesn't work for me at all. JMO

poppygirl · Dec 20, 2013

zwiebel said:
There is something about the timeline in this case, that I haven't quite put my finger on;

6.36 am: Holly's son's bus picks up at 6.36 am. Holly walked him to the stop.
6.34am: Police state she was seen back on her drive at 6.33 or 6.34am. (It's so unusual to have such an exact time, unless it's from cctv footage. How did they get that.?)
Unknown: Meanwhile, Holly's mom had phoned her as usual, and received no answer.
7am: So she went to the house and arrived there at 7am.

What is puzzling me is what time did Holly's mom call? It must have been later than 6.34, as Holly was back at home then and could have answered. But remembering the school bus doesn't come until 6.36, I wouldn't have thought Holly's mom would have been alarmed until about 6.40/45 if there was no answer. She'd have thought Holly might be still walking back from the bus.

That could mean
Holly was on her drive at 6.33/34
Holly was not answering her phone at 6.40/45

And that it is possible she may have disappeared within five minutes, not half an hour.

If Holly's mom called her BEFORE the time Holly usually walked to the bus, and got no answer, that could have raised an alarm of course. But then why wouldn't Holly have answered the phone then?

I was also thinking that if people didn't see a car, it might not be because there wasn't one. It could be that the car was so familiar and normally in a place nearby, so it just didn't register.

Hmmm...her mom couldn't reach her within such a short timeframe and was worried enough to go check on her...perhaps Mom knew something was going on in Holly's life that made her extra concerned?

FigTree · Dec 20, 2013

Where was it reported on msm that Holly had an altercation with another car at the bus stop?

It needs to be verified if Holly walked or drove to the bus stop - and,
If Holly walked or drove back from the bus stop.

I have been keeping up with the thread - but I find this part confusing.

.

Treelights · Dec 20, 2013

FigTree said:
Where was it reported on msm that Holly had an altercation with another car at the bus stop?

It needs to be verified if Holly walked or drove to the bus stop - and,
If Holly walked or drove back from the bus stop.

I have been keeping up with the thread - but I find this part confusing.

.

I have not seen a report on MSM that Holly had an altercation with another car at the bus stop.
In my post previously I linked to an article that states that Holly drove her son to the bus stop. Do you mean verified by the police? The article doesn't say specifically who said that she drove her son to the bus stop, just that relatives said she did.

IMOO.

IHAVENOCLUE · Dec 20, 2013

Treelights said:
Like I mentioned in my post, It bears repeating.
You know what they say...Great minds think alike!

:thumb: :seeya:

Elainera · Dec 21, 2013

FigTree said:
Where was it reported on msm that Holly had an altercation with another car at the bus stop?

It needs to be verified if Holly walked or drove to the bus stop - and,
If Holly walked or drove back from the bus stop.

I have been keeping up with the thread - but I find this part confusing.

.

In the fb group for Holly someone reported that there was an altercation between Holly and someone in an older car. It said the altercation happened after she dropped off her son at the bus stop, it did not say the altercation took place at the bus stop. I had brought this piece of info here and cautioned that it is RUMOR! There is no verification of it in msm.

Elainera · Dec 21, 2013

zwiebel said:
There is something about the timeline in this case, that I haven't quite put my finger on;

6.36 am: Holly's son's bus picks up at 6.36 am. Holly walked him to the stop.
6.34am: Police state she was seen back on her drive at 6.33 or 6.34am. (It's so unusual to have such an exact time, unless it's from cctv footage. How did they get that.?)
Unknown: Meanwhile, Holly's mom had phoned her as usual, and received no answer.
7am: So she went to the house and arrived there at 7am.

What is puzzling me is what time did Holly's mom call? It must have been later than 6.34, as Holly was back at home then and could have answered. But remembering the school bus doesn't come until 6.36, I wouldn't have thought Holly's mom would have been alarmed until about 6.40/45 if there was no answer. She'd have thought Holly might be still walking back from the bus.

That could mean
Holly was on her drive at 6.33/34
Holly was not answering her phone at 6.40/45

And that it is possible she may have disappeared within five minutes, not half an hour.

If Holly's mom called her BEFORE the time Holly usually walked to the bus, and got no answer, that could have raised an alarm of course. But then why wouldn't Holly have answered the phone then?

I was also thinking that if people didn't see a car, it might not be because there wasn't one. It could be that the car was so familiar and normally in a place nearby, so it just didn't register.

bbm - does that mean Holly has no cell phone, only a landline at home? Or left her cell phone at home when driving her son to the bus stop? Sorry if this was explained before and I missed it.

Regarding her mom getting worried and driving (or walking) over to Holly's house - we have been over this many times. I believe what was stated by others that Holly and her mom are very very close, and Holly's mom knew her daughter's morning routine exactly. Which is why she got immediately worried when there was no answer.

ITA that 6:33 is a curiously exact timestamp. :waitasec:

FigTree · Dec 21, 2013

Thanks Treelights and Elainera - I wont re-quote the post as it is rumour - thanks for the clarification.

Just checked the news - no new updates on Holly's case presently.
I hope something comes about before Xmas for her family.

Marg from Oz · Dec 21, 2013

Some people have an affinity with another person. This could have been between Holly and her mother.i can relate to that. Having a feeling that something is wrong and being right. My husband used to say I was crazy. But I was right so many times. Even though there was nothing that I could point to that had me this feeling this way. Just intuition.

I just hope she can be found to give peace of mind to her family. Any indiscretions whether real or suspected should have nothing to do with trying to find her. LE would be checking everything out.

I am hoping Christmas brings good news to all those families who are awaiting news of their loved ones.

GUILTY PA - Holly Grim, 41, Wescosville, 22 Nov 2013 #1 *Arrest*

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GUILTY PA - Holly Grim, 41, Wescosville, 22 Nov 2013 #1 Arrest