GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 6

1&2&3 said:

It seems that way for sure! It makes me wonder how long before AFIS became available that the prints taken by individual police departments were useable? Like, strict guidelines were not necessarily followed so prints were not quality prints, etc.

But then my thoughts go back to if the perp lives in GW, assume he is an executive, and I doubt he has ever had his prints taken!

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<BBM for Focus>

1&2&3, this happened a few years back, up I-20W in Douglas County, GA;

A Deadly FBI Error — Jeremy Bryan Jones, serial killer/predator ...
http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/predators/jeremy_bryan_jones/4.html
Every time he was arrested, his fingerprints were sent to the FBI, ... A Deadly FBI Error; Jeremy Bryan Jones; A Convenient New Identity ; A Monster on the Loose;

lakeoconee said:

To clarify about the blog, it's mostly politics, local issues and some griping.

I suppose people are talking about it in private, but there is not much public talk about it in any forum, internet or otherwise,

Many people don't expect it to be solved although everyone is hoping and praying that it will be solved.

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BBM

Why do they not expect it to be solved?

Litig8ter said:

OBE, under your theory, were they killed away from home? If so, how did they get there?

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So is OBE saying now, that it's NOT a serial killer?

Litig8ter said:

OBE, under your theory, were they killed away from home? If so, how did they get there?

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I do not believe the Dermond home is the original murder scene for either victim. Even when murderers try their best to clean up a scene it really isn't doable. There are just so many things that can soak up blood or cracks it can seep down into. Bludgeonings leave some of the bloodiest crime scene there are and for it to entail two bludgeoning victims massive blood would be there.

I think Sills was fully expecting to walk in the Dermonds home and find the original murder scene. It did not happen...nothing was out of place nor disturbed. So I don't think the killer ever entered the Dermond home.

Imo, he knew their daily habits/routine and came up on the backside of their property when they were both outside as it was getting dark. He either lured using a fake reason to come with him or forced them at gunpoint to go to his home. A lot of the homes in this area have basements. I think he murdered them there. I would expect his property to be similar to the Dermond property on the backside which is only 50 feet from the water's edge. Imo, he does have a boat and his own dock.

I think he dragged Shirley's body maybe on a tarp the 50 feet to his boat and loaded her and Russ's head in to the boat and he knew the water there like the back of his hand and he knew how to navigate at night to get out in the deeper waters.

I think before he left in his boat he took Russ's torso and left it in the garage. He did want everyone to know Russ had been murdered but the more I think about it he wanted to set it up like Shirley was really the suspect and that is why he discarded her so she would be classified as 'missing'. Sills would have no way to absolutely rule Shirley out with 100% certainty as long as she remained 'missing.' He had no way of ever knowing she would surface on her own. Anyone that goes to all this effort and great risk totally believes the victim is going to stay a prisoner of the water forever or they wouldn't have gone through all of this trouble in the first place.

JMO of course

I think the request for reward money is multi faceted.

It gets (already has if you count comments on MSM FB pages) people talking; friends, associates, family as well as the community in general. Talking provides a catalyst to jog the memory about what they have seen, heard and suspect.
It draws attention from the media. It also could provide LE with additional information by giving them another list of names to look at, both as those who donated and those who didn’t, and may give them information to allow them to pursue connections that they might otherwise not know about.

I also think the use of the word “hoodlums” is being used to elicit a specific response, but without truly knowing what LE does know, it’s difficult to speculate on what that is.
As others have already said it could be to insult the perp into making a mistake.
It could also give someone who may want to protect their own reputation from being damaged a reason to dissociate themselves with someone who may be thought of in that manor, which could lead to a change in behavior that will attract attention, leading to newfound information.
It could also be to get the local community talking about who “fits” the description of a hoodlum based on their interpretation of the word, and LE may hear about someone’s propensity for certain behaviors that would not otherwise be discussed.

The newly released information about LE having fingerprints, hairs, fibers and other forensic evidence is, in my opinion, to make the perp extremely anxious. Anxious behavior will stand out to those around them.

The release of the information about two different weapons, and the fact that LE thinks that SD’s body was not planned to be found, and especially the fact that they went back to the house for another look see is possibly to cause the perp to actually react.
That reaction could be one of many different things; dispose of the murder weapon(s), or try to put it back. Maybe move the head or check to see it has been found. Move, sell something, close a bank account, etc. Do something that will cause a big enough stir or even to entice them to ask some questions that only the perp would think about. Anything that may draw LE attention as odd or out of the ordinary.

Basically my thoughts are pretty much the same as what many have already commented on.

Source: http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/exclu...couple-/ngDzD/

tomkat said:

So is OBE saying now, that it's NOT a serial killer?

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NOW?

I have never believed it was a serial killer Tomkat.

You must have me mixed up with another poster.

I have always felt this is a homegrown killer living right there close by the Dermonds.

IMO

shadow of my mind said:

I think the request for reward money is multi faceted.

It gets (already has if you count comments on MSM FB pages) people talking; friends, associates, family as well as the community in general. Talking provides a catalyst to jog the memory about what they have seen, heard and suspect.
It draws attention from the media. It also could provide LE with additional information by giving them another list of names to look at, both as those who donated and those who didn’t, and may give them information to allow them to pursue connections that they might otherwise not know about.

I also think the use of the word “hoodlums” is being used to elicit a specific response, but without truly knowing what LE does know, it’s difficult to speculate on what that is.
As others have already said it could be to insult the perp into making a mistake.
It could also give someone who may want to protect their own reputation from being damaged a reason to dissociate themselves with someone who may be thought of in that manor, which could lead to a change in behavior that will attract attention, leading to newfound information.
It could also be to get the local community talking about who “fits” the description of a hoodlum based on their interpretation of the word, and LE may hear about someone’s propensity for certain behaviors that would not otherwise be discussed.

The newly released information about LE having fingerprints, hairs, fibers and other forensic evidence is, in my opinion, to make the perp extremely anxious. Anxious behavior will stand out to those around them.

The release of the information about two different weapons, and the fact that LE thinks that SD’s body was not planned to be found, and especially the fact that they went back to the house for another look see is possibly to cause the perp to actually react.
That reaction could be one of many different things; dispose of the murder weapon(s), or try to put it back. Maybe move the head or check to see it has been found. Move, sell something, close a bank account, etc. Do something that will cause a big enough stir or even to entice them to ask some questions that only the perp would think about. Anything that may draw LE attention as odd or out of the ordinary.

Basically my thoughts are pretty much the same as what many have already commented on.

Source: http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/exclu...couple-/ngDzD/

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Actually a lot of people are now questioning why the family is not contributing money for a reward. It's all over SMS.

Now I wonder if Sills set it up that way?

I think he has a little bit but nothing to make an arrest and actually nothing to point to anybody in particular.

I still wonder why he was so silent for those 8 days an is now once again giving daily bits and pieces of the investigation?

I don't know his style but he sure is different!

I hope he finds this killer. This is a really bad one!

tomkat said:

I remember them saying they were taking the weekend off, welll (proably as much as possible)

I wondered too why they went back to the house,

that circle they're running in is getting pretty tight, sooner or later HOPEFULLY SOMTHING will turn up

Sills had stated they were" running down leads today" in the news report

But also something about " no roads they need to travel down" implying there are no leads?

Forensics aren't back yet so nothing to do with that, yeah looking for more possible weapons used??

SURELY they would have todl the public about finding ofhead but maybe they didnt' want the perp to know they had more evidence that could lead to him/her

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BBM I am thinking they found a print or something in one particular room so they are going back to that room to see if they missed anything.

Now I am wondering if when they gave the home back to the family did they tell them to be careful of what they touch? I also wonder if the family is staying at the home?

Perhaps they just came in and secured things of value and then left. It would be very sad to be there knowing what had taken place.

oceanblueeyes said:

The killer would really have no clue when Russ' torso would be found. He could have been found within a few short hours after he was placed there. That was one thing he could not predict.

I think the only expertise that would be needed to do it in the dark would be to have great knowledge of how to get out of this particular sleepy little inlet at night and into the deep waters. They may have even night fished before leaving from that area and going out to the deeper waters.

I think they knew it was a risk but a risk they felt they must take. They had to take the head and body evidence away from the GW property altogether to distance themselves from the crime itself. I think they felt it was safer to dump Shirley in the water than to leave her on the grounds of GW. If they had buried the head and her body then much more evidence can be left behind than if the victims were submerged in water. I think the killer's location is right there in GW or in the close proximity and that is why he did this the way it was done.

By doing it this way I think he thought people may think that Shirley would become the suspect and also with her just classified as missing it would be a distraction and that worked too for a week and a half. For 11 long days most of the investigation concentrated on looking for a 'missing' elderly woman dead or alive. Even Sills said he had to consider Shirley's possible involvement and had never said he ruled that possibility out until her body was found and then he knew for sure she wasn't involved.

IMO

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Some yes some no. I still have a very hard time with all the 'movements' in this killing, beheading, placing of the bodies. Moving lifeless bodies that had to weigh twice as much as a living person. Dead weight.

How did they take SD from her home, place her in a boat, travel down the river in the dead of night in pitch darkness (assuming that would be the time). Also did they move about the house and garage with no lights?

If SD was drug down to a boat surely there would be drag marks that Sills would have spoke of. I have heard nothing other than maybe some foot prints.

Who the heck carries around a head? Where did the murders and beheading occur? How did they get them into and out of the murder scene?

If this was a resident I am going to say it's somebody that knew they would be alone in their residence that weekend. I am still thinking of a Sigg or Gardner living in their family home.

Has anybody found anyplace that has given out the questions asked on that questionnaire filled out by residents.

I bet we could chew on that for a while!

Probate notices have been published. It must be awful to have to go through this process for both parents at the same time.

http://georgiapublicnotice.com/

1&2&3 said:

It seems that way for sure! It makes me wonder how long before AFIS became available that the prints taken by individual police departments were useable? Like, strict guidelines were not necessarily followed so prints were not quality prints, etc.

But then my thoughts go back to if the perp lives in GW, assume he is an executive, and I doubt he has ever had his prints taken!

Click to expand...

BBM. Friends of mine who are doctors drive to the hospital at all times of the night. All of them carry a pistol with them and a license to carry. When I got a license to carry, one had to have their fingerprints taken. IMO because a person is a professional doesn't mean the state hasn't got a set of their fingerprints.

oceanblueeyes said:

I do not believe the Dermond home is the original murder scene for either victim. Even when murderers try their best to clean up a scene it really isn't doable. There are just so many things that can soak up blood or cracks it can seep down into. Bludgeonings leave some of the bloodiest crime scene there are and for it to entail two bludgeoning victims massive blood would be there.

I think Sills was fully expecting to walk in the Dermonds home and find the original murder scene. It did not happen...nothing was out of place nor disturbed. So I don't think the killer ever entered the Dermond home.

Imo, he knew their daily habits/routine and came up on the backside of their property when they were both outside as it was getting dark. He either lured using a fake reason to come with him or forced them at gunpoint to go to his home. A lot of the homes in this area have basements. I think he murdered them there. I would expect his property to be similar to the Dermond property on the backside which is only 50 feet from the water's edge. Imo, he does have a boat and his own dock.

I think he dragged Shirley's body maybe on a tarp the 50 feet to his boat and loaded her and Russ's head in to the boat and he knew the water there like the back of his hand and he knew how to navigate at night to get out in the deeper waters.

I think before he left in his boat he took Russ's torso and left it in the garage. He did want everyone to know Russ had been murdered but the more I think about it he wanted to set it up like Shirley was really the suspect and that is why he discarded her so she would be classified as 'missing'. Sills would have no way to absolutely rule Shirley out with 100% certainty as long as she remained 'missing.' He had no way of ever knowing she would surface on her own. Anyone that goes to all this effort and great risk totally believes the victim is going to stay a prisoner of the water forever or they wouldn't have gone through all of this trouble in the first place.

JMO of course

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BBM
Trying to follow you on this...so, why would he want Mrs. D to be the suspect, the bad person? It makes more sense to me for the male (more powerful) to be the one to kill his wife and then disappear. Do you think the killer had something personal against Mrs. D?

honeybun1807 said:

Actually a lot of people are now questioning why the family is not contributing money for a reward. It's all over SMS.

Now I wonder if Sills set it up that way?

I think he has a little bit but nothing to make an arrest and actually nothing to point to anybody in particular.

I still wonder why he was so silent for those 8 days an is now once again giving daily bits and pieces of the investigation?

I don't know his style but he sure is different!

I hope he finds this killer. This is a really bad one!

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BBM
Agreed! I would like to see Vernon Keenan giving a daily press conference.

honeybun1807 said:

BBM I am thinking they found a print or something in one particular room so they are going back to that room to see if they missed anything.

Now I am wondering if when they gave the home back to the family did they tell them to be careful of what they touch? I also wonder if the family is staying at the home?

Perhaps they just came in and secured things of value and then left. It would be very sad to be there knowing what had taken place.

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I would doubt very seriously if they are staying there. After my father died (natural causes) I never spent another night in our family home. Stayed in a hotel while cleaning out the house.

honeybun1807 said:

Some yes some no. I still have a very hard time with all the 'movements' in this killing, beheading, placing of the bodies. Moving lifeless bodies that had to weigh twice as much as a living person. Dead weight.

How did they take SD from her home, place her in a boat, travel down the river in the dead of night in pitch darkness (assuming that would be the time). Also did they move about the house and garage with no lights?

If SD was drug down to a boat surely there would be drag marks that Sills would have spoke of. I have heard nothing other than maybe some foot prints.

Who the heck carries around a head? Where did the murders and beheading occur? How did they get them into and out of the murder scene?

If this was a resident I am going to say it's somebody that knew they would be alone in their residence that weekend. I am still thinking of a Sigg or Gardner living in their family home.

Has anybody found anyplace that has given out the questions asked on that questionnaire filled out by residents.

I bet we could chew on that for a while!

Click to expand...

I would imagine they did it just like all the others in the past who have taken bodies from the murder scene and loaded them up in a boat to discard the bodies in the deep water.

Oh I don't think a dead body is twice its weight. Do you have a link on that being the case Honeybun?

If he wrapped Shirley up in a tarp and then bound it with tape it would actually pull easily over thick plush grass without leaving drag marks because tarps have a very slick smooth surface. Then all he would have to do once he got out in the deep waters is cut the tape and roll the body off the side of the boat into the water. I have a feeling he had Russ' torso also bound within a tarp and when he got to their home he just pulled Russ' torso out of the tarp a little ways to get him inside of the garage. I don't think footprints would be seen in grass. We have very thick grass ourselves and no matter how many walk on it we never see footprints. Not even if my hubby and son are carrying something very heavy to put in one of our out-sheds

I have already stated I believe both the murders and decapitation happened in the killer's basement. Basements usually have floor drains and concrete flooring and can be hosed down. They always have thick walls which greatly buffers sound.

I don't see a lot of movement. It actually seems pretty simple to me for someone living very close to the Dermonds.

I think he quickly discarded the head like he did Shirley. I imagine he put it in several trash bags to make sure no blood would be in his boat then he just opened the bags and let his head fall into the lake.

I have long said I didn't believe he decapitated Russ for ghoulish or macabre reasons or to leave a message but he did it out of necessity to deflect attention away from himself. He wanted to create a diversion where Shirley would appear only to be 'missing' but he did want others to know Russ had been murdered but he wanted them to think otherwise when it came to Shirley. Like I have mentioned before I think he wanted to make it look like Shirley had done this to Russ herself and then left the area.

Which now makes me think he may have had more anger at Shirley than Russ since he seems to have been setting Shirley up to be a suspect. And as I stated before even Sills said he had to consider that possibility and he never ruled her out until he knew she had been murdered herself, and if she was never found Sills would never be able to rule her out.

I don't think they are staying there as one of the sons stated the house was a mess from the fingerprint dusting and investigations done. Not quoted and have no idea where to find it, but at the time of reading it, it didn't surprise me.

Hickory Born said:

I would doubt very seriously if they are staying there. After my father died (natural causes) I never spent another night in our family home. Stayed in a hotel while cleaning out the house.

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I think the media would know if they had stayed there anyway. It does show though that the children don't mind Sills going back into the home even though it has been released back to them.

I agree with you Hickory. Cleaning out the home of your deceased parent is hard enough to do by itself. I had to do that for my dad and I would have never stayed there when I did it. I am like you.......I never spent another night there and he too died of natural causes.

IMO

oceanblueeyes said:

I don't think it is uncommon.

All I get is a blank page.

Which child was omitted as an Executor.

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Daughter.

Bootsctr said:

Daughter.

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Is she the youngest child Bootsie?

Sometimes they will select the two older children who they think are more than capable of executing the will.

Since it seems the boys are more business minded I don't find this odd at all.

IMO

oceanblueeyes said:

Is she the youngest child Bootsie?

Sometimes they will select the two older children who they think are more than capable of executing the will.

Since it seems the boys are more business minded I don't find this odd at all.

IMO

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I don't know. Maybe she didn't want to be bothered by the business end of everything.