GA - Suspicion over heat death of Cooper, 22 mo., Cobb County, June 2014, #1

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eileenhawkeye said:
The fact that LE is being so vague about why they are charging him w/ murder is why there seems to be a ton of sympathy for him. Most people just see he was charged w/ murder for leaving the child in a hot car, and figure this is an overzealous police department.

ETA: I don't really understand why LE cannot just say "The autopsy showed that the child did not die from the heat" or something similar. I haven't seen a case as clouded in secrecy as this one, and it is probably why they have already raise $12,000 for him.
Click to expand...
Basically same story different day...
OK not really it was a baby girl 9mo old. In the back of her daddy's pick up truck. Died from hyperthermia. Her internal body temp was 109 ????
He has been charged with MANSLAUGHTER.
Dad is being cooperative under the circumstances and immediately admitted that he forgot about her and explained how it happened.


"His daughter, Anna Marie Lillie, was left in her father's black pickup truck Monday. Police say the child's core body temperature was 109.06 degrees when she arrived at Wuesthoff Hospital, where she was pronounced dead."

http://www.floridatoday.com/story/n...-aggravated-manslaughter-baby-death/11075465/

IMO it was decided at the scene when 911 responded that hyperthermia was NOT the cause of this child's death.
While an autopsy was going to be done, clearly the condition of the child was not indicative of death from hyperthermia.
the child died well before being placed in the car
or...
The child was left in the hot car on purpose.

I am thinking the child was placed in the car deceased. moo

***purely rumor and speculation at this point.
There are cameras in the parking decks and visitor parking lots for Home Depot Corporate offices in Atlanta, however Mr. Harris parked in the **visitors parking lot** that day which is in full sunlight rather than parking in the employee parking deck where he had always parked before.

IMO the search warrant was to view surveillance cameras in and around the facility and speak with the daycare on site as well as the dad's office.

Hopefully we will hear more soon.
moo

All posts are my opinion only. Sent via Tapatalk
 
May seem off topic but I am curious if others have the same sense of outrage at the cavalier "I forgot" excuse.

Even as a kid in middle school (in the olden days - mine I confess and those of my kids too) "I forgot" was not reason to be exempted from (a) bringing signed note from home (b) not doing homework (c) doing chores and, (d) keeping promises.

As an employee "I forgot" is a fast track ''out the door''

So when did we, as a society, decide "I forgot'' seems like a reasonable defense for 'leaving your baby in a carseat'?

MOO
 
newone said:
May seem off topic but I am curious if others have the same sense of outrage at the cavalier "I forgot" excuse.

Even as a kid in middle school (in the olden days - mine I confess and those of my kids too) "I forgot" was not reason to be exempted from (a) bringing signed note from home (b) not doing homework (c) doing chores and, (d) keeping promises.

As an employee "I forgot" is a fast track ''out the door''

So when did we, as a society, decide "I forgot'' seems like a reasonable defense for 'leaving your baby in a carseat'?

MOO
Click to expand...
I have seen cases where I do believe the parent "forgot". When life gets so crazy that you are capable of forgetting important things (I am not even including leaving a child in your vehicle all day) We have got to take responsibility for ourselves and slow down.

How many babies have been left in cars while daddy goes to gamble or mamma has to go work at the strip club? They knowingly chose to do it. The baby doesn't always die, but there is always a chance.

People do stupid stuff!
I have a friend that took her lunch break, went to her car and started it, looked up and a friend of hers said come on let's go to lunch! So she went. She left the car door open with the keys in the ignition and the car RUNNING!
FOR AN HOUR while she ate lunch with her "friend" - she did'nt even eat lunch that day! With the man that showed up -- who she happened to be having an affair with.

Yeah,had her child been in that car she would probably have forgotten it. Had someone else's child gotten in her car open door and running what could have happened?
Everyone with a brain knew what was on her mind... moo

All posts are my opinion only. Sent via Tapatalk
 
While I do not personally know these parents, hundreds of my FB friends do.... and they are adamant that they are not bad parents. (Most attending high school and college with dad.)

My heart is broken for them all, and I am following the details of this case closely. I will refrain from any judgment on my part until all the details are out.

Sent from a Samsung Galaxy far, far away...
 
Two things that have been quoted here so far make me wonder about a third party's involvement. One statement was
“We have been in communication with the mother throughout the investigation. At this time, I’m not at liberty to discuss her involvement. That’s a part of the case our detectives are working on,”
Click to expand...
and the other one was
"But Pierce told CNN on Friday, “I cannot confirm that the child, as originally reported, was in the car at 9 a.m.”
Click to expand...
Links to both statements are already provided in the thread. It makes me wonder if the mother (or someone else) may have put the child's body in the car seat later in the day, and the father is just taking the blame.
 
Since the dad was the employee and the ON SITE childcare was at his workplace....WHY wouldnt HE take the baby to daycare each day? SCRATCHING MY HEAD...
I keep rereading LEs words....something horrific about this little ones death.
I also wonder if the baby was in rigor...and not limp...forgive my words. That would point to other tragic things imoo/
 
Confusion said:
Two things that have been quoted here so far make me wonder about a third party's involvement. One statement was and the other one was
Links to both statements are already provided in the thread. It makes me wonder if the mother (or someone else) may have put the child's body in the car seat later in the day, and the father is just taking the blame.
Click to expand...

bbm Could be.
What if someone else hurt the child, put him in the car seat and the dad honestly didn't know? Thinking out loud........
for example------------
what if a witness saw 'someone' put the child and the car seat in dad's auto AFTER 9am. intentionally setting him up?
ugh....
wishing the little one eternal peace.
 
newone said:
May seem off topic but I am curious if others have the same sense of outrage at the cavalier "I forgot" excuse.

Even as a kid in middle school (in the olden days - mine I confess and those of my kids too) "I forgot" was not reason to be exempted from (a) bringing signed note from home (b) not doing homework (c) doing chores and, (d) keeping promises.

As an employee "I forgot" is a fast track ''out the door''

So when did we, as a society, decide "I forgot'' seems like a reasonable defense for 'leaving your baby in a carseat'?

MOO
Click to expand...

I'm fanatically outraged by this. I got bounced off another site for repeatedly expressing this outrage. LOL :banghead:

How do you "forget" a baby? And it's happening with more and more regularity. In too many of these cases the public is afraid of hurting the parent even more by accusing them of negligence. The idea is "they have suffered enough" by the loss of their child.

But I'm cynical and I'm a victims advocate and to me it is beyond the pale to leave a child in the car. It's just an impossible excuse to say you forgot your baby. If you have a baby the baby needs to be the number one priority in your life at all times. It is completely at the mercy of the parents or caregivers.

In addition this emotional reaction to the situation paves the way for the "i forgot defense" It's clear that if you wanted to kill a child you could toss them into a swimming pool to drown or just leave them in the car and then emotionally go to pieces and get off on a lesser charge.

Considering that a baby is at minimum an 18 year "sentence" to responsibility, I can see someone risking a criminal record just to get out of that long term responsibility and connection to the other parent.
 
:eek::eek::eek:
Chewy said:
I'm fanatically outraged by this. I got bounced off another site for repeatedly expressing this outrage. LOL :banghead:

How do you "forget" a baby? And it's happening with more and more regularity. In too many of these cases the public is afraid of hurting the parent even more by accusing them of negligence. The idea is "they have suffered enough" by the loss of their child.

But I'm cynical and I'm a victims advocate and to me it is beyond the pale to leave a child in the car. It's just an impossible excuse to say you forgot your baby. If you have a baby the baby needs to be the number one priority in your life at all times. It is completely at the mercy of the parents or caregivers.

In addition this emotional reaction to the situation paves the way for the "i forgot defense" It's clear that if you wanted to kill a child you could toss them into a swimming pool to drown or just leave them in the car and then emotionally go to pieces and get off on a lesser charge.

Considering that a baby is at minimum an 18 year "sentence" to responsibility, I can see someone risking a criminal record just to get out of that long term responsibility and connection to the other parent.
Click to expand...
I don't know what to think.
Grown ups - (being nice here, not pointing a finger at parents)
used to accidentally run over children backing out of their driveways.
IMO the obvious solution was to back IN TO your driveway while your child was still in the car, or upon arriving home, back your car into place as soon as you could ensure your child's safety.
That way when leaving your home you can always "see."
Most parents would not do that. Too much "trouble" REALLY to protect a child? wow.
So now we have back up cameras and alarms to tell us we are about to run over something.

I'm guilty as well. I have buckled my children in their car seats, raised the garage door and run over a bicycle and flattened a skate board and a razor scooter.

Had I backed in would I have seen the toys? Yep.
Guilty.

I haven't heard of a child being run over in the drive way in forever!
I guess we need alarms like the ones when you aren't wearing your seat belt.
An alarm that senses weight in the seat or something hooked up to the car seat where if the buckle is in use, when you exit the car an audible alarm goes off. AND I DON'T MEAN A LITTLE DING DING DING... I MEAN A HONKING ALARM LITERALLY!

I do think if adults that "forgot" babies in hot cars were not given a pass, people would start to check 1- 2 - 3 times or more if they knew it was a "no excuse" crime.

Honestly, I think I checked to make sure the curling iron and coffee pot were off more frequently than my kids car seats.

I will admit I left my gas grill on HIGH (I always burn off the grates after grilling)
FOR A DAY AND A HALF!
YEP.
Grilled out Saturday night. Locked up forgot the grill... and it hit me when I walked into Burger King for lunch ON MONDAY at about 1:15 pm.
Needless to say I spent the rest of my lunch hour driving home to turn off my grill.
*I was certain I'd meet the fire Dept and my smouldering home along with an arson arrest. Luckily everything was OK... I beat myself up for weeks.
That was nothing close to forgetting my child.
However, I did forget once. I promised my son in kindergarten I'd pick him up and take him for ice cream on his bday so he wouldn't have to ride the bus home.
I told his teacher and wrote a note that he would be a car rider.
A neighbor had an emergency and needed me to watch her child and in the excitement of it all, I forgot my son. The school called after the buses left and asked where I was.

I forgot my little buddy on HIS BIRTHDAY after I PROMISED!

He will be 22 in Oct. and he still teases me about that.
I am fortunate. He was alive! Just really mad his ice cream was late.

Life is stressful. People handle it differently. If I get stressed I am likely to forget sometimes.
That is scary. So I HAVE to slow down in those situations make lists and quadruple check myself.
Ross Harris said
"what have I done?" It is an admission of guilt in the eyes of many.

I can't know what he should have said, but maybe they expected him to scream I'm sorry instead?

I dunno. To me it is the same either way.

I feel for the guy. Unless I find out his son was deceased prior to being put in the car and he was trying to cover up the time and /or manner of death to save his behind. If stopping in the middle of the street and having people witness what followed was premeditated, then it's over.
moo


"He kept saying, 'What have I done? What have I done?'" Dale Hamilton told CNN affiliate*WSB-TV.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/21/us/toddler-car-death-probe/


All posts are my opinion only. Sent via Tapatalk
 
CHERIE.T said:
Since the dad was the employee and the ON SITE childcare was at his workplace....WHY wouldnt HE take the baby to daycare each day? SCRATCHING MY HEAD...
I keep rereading LEs words....something horrific about this little ones death.
I also wonder if the baby was in rigor...and not limp...forgive my words. That would point to other tragic things imoo/
Click to expand...
He was. On lookers said he looked like he was still sitting in his car seat.

"He was lifeless, he was in the same position as if he were sitting in the carseat,” Hamilton said. “It’s something that I’ll remember for a long time.”



http://m.ajc.com/news/news/breaking-news/child-believed-left-in-car-in-cobb-has-died/ngNdR/

All posts are my opinion only. Sent via Tapatalk
 
gngr~snap said:
:eek::eek::eek:
I don't know what to think.
Grown ups - (being nice here, not pointing a finger at parents)
used to accidentally run over children backing out of their driveways.
IMO the obvious solution was to back IN TO your driveway while your child was still in the car, or upon arriving home, back your car into place as soon as you could ensure your child's safety.
That way when leaving your home you can always "see."
Most parents would not do that. Too much "trouble" REALLY to protect a child? wow.
So now we have back up cameras and alarms to tell us we are about to run over something.

I'm guilty as well. I have buckled my children in their car seats, raised the garage door and run over a bicycle and flattened a skate board and a razor scooter.

Had I backed in would I have seen the toys? Yep.
Guilty.

I haven't heard of a child being run over in the drive way in forever!
I guess we need alarms like the ones when you aren't wearing your seat belt.
An alarm that senses weight in the seat or something hooked up to the car seat where if the buckle is in use, when you exit the car an audible alarm goes off. AND I DON'T MEAN A LITTLE DING DING DING... I MEAN A HONKING ALARM LITERALLY!

I do think if adults that "forgot" babies in hot cars were not given a pass, people would start to check 1- 2 - 3 times or more if they knew it was a "no excuse" crime.

Honestly, I think I checked to make sure the curling iron and coffee pot were off more frequently than my kids car seats.

I will admit I left my gas grill on HIGH (I always burn off the grates after grilling)
FOR A DAY AND A HALF!
YEP.
Grilled out Saturday night. Locked up forgot the grill... and it hit me when I walked into Burger King for lunch ON MONDAY at about 1:15 pm.
Needless to say I spent the rest of my lunch hour driving home to turn off my grill.
*I was certain I'd meet the fire Dept and my smouldering home along with an arson arrest. Luckily everything was OK... I beat myself up for weeks.
That was nothing close to forgetting my child.
However, I did forget once. I promised my son in kindergarten I'd pick him up and take him for ice cream on his bday so he wouldn't have to ride the bus home.
I told his teacher and wrote a note that he would be a car rider.
A neighbor had an emergency and needed me to watch her child and in the excitement of it all, I forgot my son. The school called after the buses left and asked where I was.

I forgot my little buddy on HIS BIRTHDAY after I PROMISED!

He will be 22 in Oct. and he still teases me about that.
I am fortunate. He was alive! Just really mad his ice cream was late.

Life is stressful. People handle it differently. If I get stressed I am likely to forget sometimes.
That is scary. So I HAVE to slow down in those situations make lists and quadruple check myself.
Ross Harris said
"what have I done?" It is an admission of guilt in the eyes of many.

I can't know what he should have said, but maybe they expected him to scream I'm sorry instead?

I dunno. To me it is the same either way.

I feel for the guy. Unless I find out his son was deceased prior to being put in the car and he was trying to cover up the time and /or manner of death to save his behind. If stopping in the middle of the street and having people witness what followed was premeditated, then it's over.
moo


"He kept saying, 'What have I done? What have I done?'" Dale Hamilton told CNN affiliate*WSB-TV.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/21/us/toddler-car-death-probe/


All posts are my opinion only. Sent via Tapatalk
Click to expand...

We've all had moments of screwing up as parents. Even with other people's kids. I remember when I visited my sister in the hospital after she gave birth to her newborn daughter, she asked for a pen and I unthinkingly tossed it to her just to have it bounce off her chest missing my newborn niece's head by mere inches. OMG the horror :facepalm:

But there's a difference between a child who can get up and move about on their own and a baby. As many people have noted, older children can get out of the car seat or at least try or fuss or scream.

Babies are a different story. I think these "omg they've suffered enough" sends a bad message and creates a dangerous precedent.

Even if the parents are "forgiven" by the legal system, it should be mandated IMO that it's a straight up negligence and manslaughter charge. I believe this would raise awareness and send a message.
 
"Much has changed about the circumstances leading up to the death of this 22-month-old since it was first reported," Cobb County Police Sgt. Dana Pierce told CNN. He would not elaborate, citing an ongoing investigation, but his words made it clear this was not just another case of a young life left and lost to heat exposure in a hot car.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/21/us/toddler-car-death-probe/
bbm/cbm


"The father is charged with felony murder and cruelty to children."
=====================================================

This takes away any of my doubt about the dad being charged with a very very serious crime and IMOO LE knows exactly what happened to the baby.
 
Georgia investigators searched Justin Ross Harris's workplace in the hours before they arrested the Alabama native in the death of his toddler son who was left in a sweltering SUV for 7 hours last week.

Cobb County police searched the Home Depot office where Harris, 33, worked, and where he told police he was when he forgot 22- month-old Cooper Harris was strapped into his car seat, according to a Friday report from Channel 2 Action News in Atlanta. Authorities have not said what, if anything, was seized in searches.
Click to expand...

DID he actually go to work that day?
 
Horrifying


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
sitting back and taking it in, riding :fence:

I am thinking there must be a lot of extra information LE has on this one that warrants these charges. Because at first blush this seemed a clearcut accident. If LE thinks otherwise - well, waiting to see why they think so before I land.
 
"He was lifeless, he was in the same position as if he were sitting in the carseat,” Hamilton said. “It’s something that I’ll remember for a long time.”
Click to expand...

This suggests that rigor was fully established and hadn't had time to dissipate, but I don't know how being in a hot car would affect that.
 
Rigor normally appears within the body around two hours after the deceased has passed away with - as we have already mentioned - the facial and upper neck and shoulder muscles first to visibly suffer from its effects. Many Scenes of Crime Officers (SOCO) have reported that upon discovering the deceased that their face might have taken on what looks to be a grimace; this is because the facial muscles have contracted as ATP drains from them.

Once the contracting of all the body's muscles has taken place this state of Rigor - technically referred to as the Rigid Stage - normally lasts anything from eight to twelve hours after which time the body is completely stiff; this fixed state lasts for up to another eighteen hours.

http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/rigor-mortis-and-lividity.html

Hours 2 to 6
Because the heart no longer pumps blood, gravity begins to pull it to the areas of the body closest to the ground, a process called livor mortis. If the body remains undisturbed long enough (several hours), the parts of the body nearest the ground can develop a reddish-purple discoloration from the accumulating blood. Embalmers sometimes refer to this as the "postmortem stain."

Beginning approximately in the third hour after death, again depending upon numerous factors, chemical changes within the body's cells cause all of the muscles to begin stiffening. Known as rigor mortis, the first muscles affected include the eyelids, jaw and neck. Over the next several hours, rigor mortis spreads upward into the face and down through the chest, abdomen, arms and legs until it reaches the fingers and toes.

Interestingly, the old custom of placing coins on the eyelids of the deceased might have originated from the desire to keep the eyes shut, since rigor mortis affects them soonest. Also, it is not unusual for infants and young children who die not to display rigor mortis, possibly due to their smaller muscle mass.

Hours 7 to 12
Maximum muscle stiffness throughout the body occurs after roughly 12 hours due to rigor mortis, although this will be affected by the decedent's age, physical condition, sex, the air temperature, etc. At this point, the limbs of the deceased are difficult to move or manipulate. The knees and elbows will be slightly flexed, and fingers or toes can appear unusually crooked.

http://dying.about.com/od/thedyingprocess/a/My_Body_Postmortem.htm

Livor mortis (Latin: livor—"bluish color," mortis—"of death"), postmortem lividity (Latin: postmortem—"after death", lividity—"black and blue"), or hypostasis (Greek: hupo, meaning "under, beneath"; stasis, meaning "a standing" ) is one of the signs of death. Livor mortis is a settling of the blood in the lower (dependent) portion of the body, causing a purplish red discoloration of the skin: when the heart is no longer agitating the blood, heavy red blood cells sink through the serum by action of gravity. Intensity of color depends upon the amount of reduced hemoglobin in the blood. This discoloration does not occur in the areas of the body that are in contact with the ground or another object, as the capillaries are compressed. As the vessel wall become permeable due to decomposition, blood leaks through them and stains the tissue. This is the reason for fixation of hypostasis.

Coroners can use the presence or absence of livor mortis as a means of determining an approximate time of death. The presence of livor mortis is an indication of when it would be futile to begin CPR, or when it is ineffective to continue if it is in progress. It can also be used by forensic investigators to determine whether or not a body has been moved (for instance, if the body is found lying face down but the pooling is present on the deceased's back, investigators can determine that the body was originally positioned face up).

Read more: http://www.deathreference.com/knowledge/Livor_mortis.html#ixzz35OfW5S6W
 
I am wondering if Rigor mortis is not what is key here but if livor mortis is telling something other than the story being supplied by dad.
 
Livor Mortis, if the child died not in the car from heat, but rather at home through some other circumstance. The staining would give away the true position at death even if teh child was placed in the car seat while dead prior to the rigor mortis setting in, fixing him in the seated position.

just speculating.
 
Beautiful little boy; he reminds me so much of my great nephew at that age. Certainly someone who works with the dad would know how he was behaving during work that day. If he had already passed before dad went to work and he was trying to cover it up, he must be a very good actor if he knew that little boy was already gone. I don't know anyone of my family or friends who would be able to act like nothing was wrong.
Slightly off-topic, but you hear so many stories of children dying in hot cars. Why doesn't anyone ever hear these children in the car maybe crying for help or see them before it's too late? Yes, I'm sure many fall asleep while their parents are driving, but I would think if they were hot they may possibly wake up and cry. So sad for them! I can't but always wonder why especially some of the older ones don't try and get out on their own or bang on the windows.
 
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