ramsey's fireplace

did they ever check the fireplace for ashes of rope and tape, because these things could have easily been burned and turned into ashes and could have blended in with ashes from fire logs. was this ever looked into? did they have a fireplace? i'm assuming that must have with that old of a house or maybe even a wood stove. does anyone know. has this been discussed before?

Patsy and John cut the missing piece of the paintbrush, rope, and roll of tape into small pieces and flushed it down the toilet ... it's possible ask any plumber..

I think the cops tore the plumbing apart to try and find them. Maybe they weren't looking for the right stuff.

I have a vague recollection that one brick from the fireplace was loose and that maybe there was a hair somewhere on it, but don't take my word for it unless others remember that too. It's been so long.

SD's right that they did inspect the plumbing.

Good thinking, Ellen.

Yes, the plumbing was inspected and the fireplace ashes were sifted through. I DO NOT think it would have been wise to even consider burning the duct tape due to its chemical make up and the possible release of toxic fumes.


-Tea

Am I right about this, folks? Anyone remember? Brick with hair on it?

If the brick was what she was hit over the head with, whoever did it would have made it disappear like the duct tape and all, right? But if it was there with a blonde hair, that'd too-obviously be stupid staging. Like the picture that I believe ST said fell out of the evidence envelope, of an open dictionary which hadn't been there at the crime scene when it was first gone over, dog-eared exactly to the word "incest". Is my memory correct about that? Just checking.

There was so much staging and "staging within staging", overkill, that it accomplished the opposite of what it was intended for, convicting the victims, who I readily admit were not blameless.

Someone who had access to LE evidence files obviously put the afterthought snapshot in without attaching it to the others so that it would fall out and be noticed. Now who could that be?

We've all heard of undergrounds infiltrating LE, and sometimes it's a cop who's committed a crime, in TV shows. I'm not even convinced the over-all bungling wasn't because they all knew something was coming down, real reason Ofc French didn't open that door. I know all the excuses but just not buying them. The whole truth about the parents' role is what I think we're after. Such a fascinating story!

Sunday night on MSNBC there was a special about Female Sexual Abuse, making the point that these women do it to keep a man, who first suggests it. Both the mother in the TV example and her abused daughter seemed to really really enjoy telling their story, and claiming they did something beneficial to fix it, the daughter claiming she rescued her mom from such a life and such a man by having her incarcerated, and the woman claiming she GAVE her daughter adoptive parents. I think they'd been foster parents and she didn't have much choice. It wasn't that she was altruistic at all. But I don't really think the Ramseys were all THAT low. They had wealth and status, not like this woman.

We may all be believing lies, rumors, about Patsy having been abused when she was a child. I don't remember exactly how that got started, which we've been accepting as truth all this time. Anyone else know? It was way after Don Paugh had somehow helped JR's business get started (how?) that Judith Phillips said JonBenet came back from a trip to Houston minus the look of childhood innocence in her eyes. Something may have happened in Houston, with someone they'd just met or maybe had known a long time, casually they thought, who may have been into child *advertiser censored* and studying them with abuse of some kind of LE surveillance equipment. Bragged in the RN about monitoring them, and arranged to have that extra snapshot planted, the brick w/hair if I'm right about that, and the other staging. Just some thoughts.

ST told us there were no footprints in the frost on the covered balcony, and other useful things nobody else mentioned, but this kind of big-headed perp would hardly climb up to a balcony to get in. There were so many other ways. The walker the Barnhills saw that late afternoon could have unlocked any doors that were locked and turned off the outside light.

"Like the picture that I believe ST said fell out of the evidence envelope, of an open dictionary which hadn't been there at the crime scene when it was first gone over, dog-eared exactly to the word "incest". Is my memory correct about that? Just checking."

I never heard that it wasn't there at the crime scene.

"We may all be believing lies, rumors, about Patsy having been abused when she was a child. I don't remember exactly how that got started, which we've been accepting as truth all this time. Anyone else know?"

I wouldn't say that. Haven't I always said I had nothing concrete to base that on?

icedtea4me said:

Yes, the plumbing was inspected and the fireplace ashes were sifted through. I DO NOT think it would have been wise to even consider burning the duct tape due to its chemical make up and the possible release of toxic fumes.


-Tea

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Good point. I'm sure there would have been quite an odor lingering in the house if they'd burned it.

For there to have been so much "evidence" or "staging" left behind, wouldn't there have had to be a lot of preplanning, or, a list that a serial molester-killer regularly used? I just don't think all of it could have been thought up in one night, while in a state of first uncontrollable rage, then fear, panic, no matter how smart one of the parents or maybe both were.

Seems to me someone had dreamed this up quite a while before, but it wasn't put into action until the incident on the 23rd when police came. The chronic molestation victim-witness was getting way too dangerous.

"For there to have been so much 'evidence' or 'staging' left behind, wouldn't there have had to be a lot of preplanning, or, a list that a serial molester-killer regularly used? I just don't think all of it could have been thought up in one night, while in a state of first uncontrollable rage, then fear, panic, no matter how smart one of the parents or maybe both were."

Smart has nothing to do with it. The fact that it was so sloppy and overdone does. If I haven't made that clear in the past, I apologize, because that is what tipped the CASKU people off (among other things) that this was most likely an unintentional death.

Yes, the staging is sloppy and overdone, and points to the family, which it wouldn't if they'd done it themselves. Don't make me go into detail yet again, we've been over it all so much.

Wherever we got that about the dictionary picture being added to the evidence folder, ST I think, I remember the author saying the dictionary hadn't been there in the original crime scene. If I have facts about it straight, the added picture wasn't attached in any way and fell out when he opened the envelope. Very sloppy, probably done by a killer who was too obviously anxious to pin this on the family. .

Yes, the staging is sloppy and overdone, and points to the family, which it wouldn't if they'd done it themselves.

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That assumes they knew what they were doing. My point is they didn't.

Eagle1 said:

For there to have been so much "evidence" or "staging" left behind, wouldn't there have had to be a lot of preplanning, or, a list that a serial molester-killer regularly used? I just don't think all of it could have been thought up in one night, while in a state of first uncontrollable rage, then fear, panic, no matter how smart one of the parents or maybe both were.

Seems to me someone had dreamed this up quite a while before, but it wasn't put into action until the incident on the 23rd when police came. The chronic molestation victim-witness was getting way too dangerous.

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with all of the stuff that was used from "movies" one could have staged based on the movies he/she watched beforehand.

[Eagle1]Yes, the staging is sloppy and overdone, and points to the family, which it wouldn't if they'd done it themselves.

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[SuperDave]That assumes they knew what they were doing. My point is they didn't.

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It is exactly the both sloppy and overdone staging which points to the parents as the perps.
Like criminal profilers have pointed out: when people who are no criminals themselves stage a scene, they usually do a poor job. For they just don't know how real crime scenes (or real ransom notes) look like.

Yes, they only have TV and movies and books to go by.

rashomon said:

It is exactly the both sloppy and overdone staging which points to the parents as the perps.

Like criminal profilers have pointed out: when people who are no criminals themselves stage a scene, they usually do a poor job. For they just don't know how real crime scenes (or real ransom notes) look like.

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It takes practice, in other words, to become a skilled criminal, and the parents hadn't ever done this before. Neither had any of the "friends", most likely. So it doesn't really prove anything.

Just staying "fair and balanaced", FS, neutral, until the end if it's ever in sight. A British criminologist, Keith Andrews' articles about one of the gang have all been removed from websites, as if maybe he was threatened with a lawsuit or something. This wouldn't have been by LE, right? Who would have threatened and gotten it all removed? (Info from another forum.)

It takes practice, in other words, to become a skilled criminal, and the parents hadn't ever done this before.

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That's more or less what rash said.