Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #3

Mel 1303 said:

With reguards to the CCTV, from JR's sister:

A couple of days after she went missing the police had us watch a video of the Conti, (a
hotel in Claremont) of the people outside and inside. I could see Jane, going up the stairs,
down stairs, mingling with the crowd. The camera only went around every 3 minutes.
Then after the pub closed, or near closing, Jane was out the front and she looked like she
was looking for someone, she was looking at her watch - looking around - that lasted for a
few minutes and then the camera turned around and she wasn’t there, so she’s obviously
walked somewhere or been picked up by someone.

honouring-survival-is-there-a-rule-book.pdf pg 64

Click to expand...

Good find, Mel. Jane's sister said,

"I think it was in the paper on the Tuesday, cause Mum and Dad called the police on the Monday. I think within a couple of days they thought that it was a Claremont serial killing, but they didn’t want to speculate but they suggested that it might be."

Two girls go missing and police assume it's a serial killer? That seems premature, unless police had additional information.

Robyn Santen went missing under suspicious circumstances in August 2015. If another woman goes missing next month, will police suspect a serial killer?

Police do almost everything wrong in the investigation, but they are super progressive in recognizing the two disappearances are related and possibly attributed to a serial killer. They formed a task force within a day of being notified Jane was missing.

Does the early assumption of a serial killer seem strange to anyone else? Or what am I missing?

(Mel's link was broken, here's another
http://www.angelhands.org.au/download/file/fid/85 )

Mel 1303 said:

With reguards to the CCTV, from JR's sister:

A couple of days after she went missing the police had us watch a video of the Conti, (a
hotel in Claremont) of the people outside and inside. I could see Jane, going up the stairs,
down stairs, mingling with the crowd. The camera only went around every 3 minutes.
Then after the pub closed, or near closing, Jane was out the front and she looked like she
was looking for someone, she was looking at her watch - looking around - that lasted for a
few minutes and then the camera turned around and she wasn’t there, so she’s obviously
walked somewhere or been picked up by someone.

honouring-survival-is-there-a-rule-book.pdf pg 64

Click to expand...

Does this mean police showed Jane's family the CCTV footage, but edited out MM?!

Jane's brother, Adam, did not see any video of MM until 2008 (presumably when it was aired in the CIA docu). On the Sunday Night show he acts like he (and the family) did not know the image existed until 2008.

(About 1 minute in)
https://au.news.yahoo.com/sunday-night/video/watch/28288427/the-claremont-killer-part-two/

Sutton said:

Good find, Mel. Jane's sister said,

"I think it was in the paper on the Tuesday, cause Mum and Dad called the police on the Monday. I think within a couple of days they thought that it was a Claremont serial killing, but they didn’t want to speculate but they suggested that it might be."

Two girls go missing and police assume it's a serial killer? That seems premature, unless police had additional information.

Robyn Santen went missing under suspicious circumstances in August 2015. If another woman goes missing next month, will police suspect a serial killer?

Police do almost everything wrong in the investigation, but they are super progressive in recognizing the two disappearances are related and possibly attributed to a serial killer. They formed a task force within a day of being notified Jane was missing.

Does the early assumption of a serial killer seem strange to anyone else? Or what am I missing?

(Mel's link was broken, here's another
http://www.angelhands.org.au/download/file/fid/85 )

Click to expand...

You are absolutely right- very early call on a serial killer- especially given that at that stage, there was no bodies.

From the same link:

"There were other girls that had gone missing, but not from the same background. Working class or poor, so no one seemed to really give a **** about people like that, - they did not attract people’s interest."

So who were these girls?

J35 said:

Hey Mordekai, do you happen to know Judoman (personally/acquaintance) or able to provide any insights about him?

Click to expand...

Nothing I'm afraid J35. I remember a European guy was the instructor and watched the class 2 or 3 times but decided on the club at the scout hall. I've got friends who do judo at the UWA club. I can probably ask some questions if you like? What would you like to know?

Parkie said:

I do not believe you, Mordekai.

Click to expand...

That's ok Parkie. Scepticism is a useful mindset in my opinion

Parkie said:

I am going to visit a Hills Doctor, who needs a House Visit....

Click to expand...

Be careful.

Maybe you could take Mordekai along and find out if everything is up to par there, as well?

Sorry, Mordekai, I do think you're legit, but I have a poor track record.

Sutton said:

Be careful.

Maybe you could take Mordekai along and find out if everything is up to par there, as well?

Sorry, Mordekai, I do think you're legit, but I have a poor track record.

Click to expand...

lol Sutton I'm the last person you'd take along. I'm blind as a bat in the dark and I'm way too friendly to be suspicious of people . Thanks for your kind words tho!

Any chance we could go back to discussing the case?

Does anyone have any idea how many white VS Commodore Station Wagon's there would have been registered in WA at the time of the murders? Maybe a ball park figure? I am thinking it wouldn't be too many and that all the registered owners could be investigated or at least background checked.

Focus on private owners first, then do the corporate/fleet one company at a time.

My VS findings so far:

VS commodore
Series 1 released May 1995
Series 2 released June 1996 with interior makeover
Limited edition VS station wagon with manual gear box was limited to a production of 300


Model
Variant
Price (base models-sedan- manual


Executive
Sedan or Wagon
$27 703



Equipe[/TD]
Wagon only?[/TD]
**limited edition released during March 1996 in Silver Ice or Botanical paint only**[/TD]

Acclaim
Sedan or Wagon[/TD]
$31 995[/TD]

Berlina[/TD]
Sedan or Wagon[/TD]
N/A[/TD]

Calais[/TD]
Sedan only?[/TD]
$45 393[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]




Berlina had power windows (front + rear), trip comp and velour interior trim


All models had two-stage remote entry that allows all doors or just the driver's door to be unlocked

Sutton said:

Does the early assumption of a serial killer seem strange to anyone else? Or what am I missing?

Click to expand...

Not strange. I will fill in the gaps.

I returned to Perth from OS a couple of months after SS went missing. There were "Have you seen Sarah" type posters all around Claremont. Everyone knew about it and the general sense was that she had been abducted. I don't recall anyone saying stuff like "I bet she took off by herself" etc. This is not a low socio-economic area rife with drug addiction, family violence and lack of opportunities. Nor was she married where I'm sure a "bet the husband did it" would have been whispered.

There was a state of flux just like with Robyn Santen (although she had a husband). Then Jane went missing. Similar demographic, same area.

Everyone was thinking "serial killer".

Police didn't admit it until after CG from memory.

Appologies Mordekai. I typed that & was going to delete it & a friend pushed Enter. I didn`t see it till today. Hills Doctor I want to visit is not Dr. A.D. Some other quack. I will sue him. Re; home invasions, yep had one of those. I didn`t even need to go to backup plans B or C even. Stopped him in a split second. Took 18 months before the DPP dropped the case in 2005. They recon I overdid it.

Barth I don`t know what the guy who found CG saw.

Can someone fill me in on the whole Dr. thing. Like a detailed summary, not a one line sentence?

I would be particularly interested in what Parkie has too say about Dr..

GreenDevil said:

Any chance we could go back to discussing the case?

Does anyone have any idea how many white VS Commodore Station Wagon's there would have been registered in WA at the time of the murders? Maybe a ball park figure? I am thinking it wouldn't be too many and that all the registered owners could be investigated or at least background checked.

Focus on private owners first, then do the corporate/fleet one company at a time.

Click to expand...

Could just do a swab if they have DNA, would save a lot of time.

elastic said:

Can someone fill me in on the whole Dr. thing. Like a detailed summary, not a one line sentence?

I would be particularly interested in what Parkie has too say about Dr..

Click to expand...

Once upon a time there was a poster called Dr . He posted regularly on the Gary Hughes blog. The Phibenator's MO was to drop hints and innuendos that he was an insider on the case. Some of his favourite techniques were to make statements that implied he was in the know but then leave it open for interpretation. An example might be he might say something like "The bloke who came across CG. He saw what dets did not want to see". Sort of insinuates he knows something when he knows no more than the rest of us.

Anyway, the hot bed of ftards on Gary Hughes bought into this. There was even a mention in the media that "Dr " might be the CSK. Even DM's book gives him a mention. The Phibenator revelled in this and would say stuff like "I worked as a printer" and "I do look like MM" and "Police follow me all the time" etc sort of giving the "is he, isn't he" vibe.

During this time there was a bit of a group of CSK enthusiasts who losely knew each - either online and I believe many met up in person. There were massive fall outs. One chap with a low set of eyebrows and a penchant for dribbling on his keyboard (Trouty I think his name was) started telling the world that The Phibenator was the CSK. He was convinced and would tell anyone that listened. Another one of those loosely associated group was some sort stalker (i think she's the one who makes up outrageous lies, gets busted, comes back a few months later with another lie, gets busted, comes back and so on).

Anyway the all fell out and went their separate ways. Where is now? Posting here as Parkie.

billywhizz said:

Could just do a swab if they have DNA, would save a lot of time.

Click to expand...

I'm pretty confident they don't have DNA for CSK but do for Karra. Unsure if they really do ave a forensic link between CSK and Karra.

But let's say they have some sort of DNA lead. What do you think they'd do? You'd be trying to test everyone you I assume?

There's got to be some short cuts to narrow the field, surely?

Fair assessment, from what I've been told. But had some decent posts, and handled criticism maturely, IMO.

I'm not speaking for anyone else, but I have posted things I later regretted. A few of my past comments make me cringe. So I try to judge others on their current body of posts. Not directed at anyone, in any way.

Moving along...

Here is the Mark Dixie timeline. If anyone comes across significant new info, PM me and I'll update it. I am going to a post a link in the Media Thread for an updatable Dixie timeline, so we can find it in the future.

View attachment Dixie, Mark - Timeline.pdf
PDF doesn't work in app. Here are screenshot of the PDF.

Parkie said:

Appologies Mordekai. I typed that & was going to delete it & a friend pushed Enter. I didn`t see it till today. Hills Doctor I want to visit is not Dr. A.D. Some other quack. I will sue him. Re; home invasions, yep had one of those. I didn`t even need to go to backup plans B or C even. Stopped him in a split second. Took 18 months before the DPP dropped the case in 2005. They recon I overdid it.

Barth I don`t know what the guy who found CG saw.

Click to expand...

Parkie.
No worries mate I didn't take it personally. No need to apologise but I appreciate it. Re: home invasion. I'm with you. I woke up one morning and heard someone making noise in my lounge room. Had time to pick up a crow bar and bail him up against the wall (in my jocks mind you lol) Most grown men would challenge a burglar i assumed. Were you armed or unarmed ?

The old blogs were ok until a nutjob woman started posting under alot of names. Yeah I did too but it got really bizarre & serious with her & also a Private Inquiry Agent in north Tassie.. But the thing is it`s wholy believable (from her take) these names she is/was using. Is it still going on? Would not surprise me in the least. Is she nuts? Likely, I met her & wasn`t long till she was off the planet. Lucky she didn`t crash her hire car.

Ok; A while ago the SCS told me I am not the CSK. Kinda happy about that. They did think I might have had something to do with the SMM case cause I met her twice on the weekend before she disappeared.That was until Morey popped up.. Cause when I had the home invasion some years later they searched the place for 1.5 days while I was in the cooler (Hakea) till I got bail. See the cops added 1 case & another case & got 2 & said aha ! Detective 'Mouse Detective' sometime later phoned me & apologised. Now recently the link between Karrakatta & CG came out & that filled us all in somewhat. The plod have said all 3 Claremont cases are definitely linked. How is that when SS is still missing? They never mentioned Karrakatta as I don`t think they had the linkage at that point. All big & small pois are dismissed. (unless me thinks the CSK dna was never found) What has got me is were there more than one guy in the van that CG spoke to? If so that shakes up the case somewhat or did the van driver & pal simply stopped & chatted then moved on & something else happened. I have a strong feeling they have no one at all for this. No MM footage released earlier enough equals no Perp caught. That equates CSK 3.5 Plod 0. Bit sad indeed. Good on ya Caporn. Heh.Twit.

I was armed, He saw too, but still decided to come in. If you are in the poo don`t give a statement or video interview. Your lawyer will tall you later that you are a twit for doing so. No point helping them making a case against you.

Sutton said:

Does this mean police showed Jane's family the CCTV footage, but edited out MM?!

Jane's brother, Adam, did not see any video of MM until 2008 (presumably when it was aired in the CIA docu). On the Sunday Night show he acts like he (and the family) did not know the image existed until 2008.

(About 1 minute in)
https://au.news.yahoo.com/sunday-night/video/watch/28288427/the-claremont-killer-part-two/

Click to expand...

Who saw the video and when is very confusing. However, the Honouring Survival document was published in 2000, so JR's sister definitely knew about the footage a long time before 2008.

I found it interesting that when asked if they had identified MM Paul Ferguson says "to the best of my recollection we did not". The best of my recollection? Was a pretty key part in the investigation, but he can remember the outcome? Sounds like an evasive way of saying yes, but for operational reasons we are keeping that to ourselves.