Forensic Astrology - CAYLEE ANTHONY Reported Missing 7/15/2008: #1

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housemouse said:
Notice that Casey's Saturn/Pluto is being triggered by Mars (18th)? This is at 7 05 (Mars) thru 8 19 (Casey's Saturn/Pluto).

This suggests brutality, ruthlessness, assault, violence.

Mars/Neptune midpoint is also on Casey's Saturn/Pluto.

Action related to drugs/water/poisons. Desire to harm other people

Also, at 12 46 in the 18th chart, see Mars/Saturn midpoint connecting with Casey's Venus at 13 08

coldness, absence of feeling, separation, loss, death of female persons

the 18th chart, Saturn at 18 28 connecting to Casey's Sun/Pluto at 17 52 (her Mars/Pluto is very close, but just out of orb)

ruthless overcoming of obstacles, difficulty, restriction, separation

the 18th's Sun/Mars at 24 43 is on Casey's Saturn at 24 42, very close!

Also, within a degree, we see a whole bunch of midpoints on the 18th - Venus/Node, Pluto/Node, Mars/Midheaven, Neptune/Asc, Sun/Neptune, Venus/Mars, Mars/Pluto

weakness, separation, actions leading to loss, restriction, and many more negative implications

And, in case your eyes are glazing over, I will point out the most troublesome midpoint connections I notice.

Look at all the midpoints from 36 through 38 on the 18th chart:

Mars/Jupiter, Mercury/Venus, Mercury/Pluto, Moon, Jupiter/Neptune, Moon/Uranus, and Uranus.

Then, look at Casey's Pluto and Uranus at 36 and 37, with her Saturn/Neptune at 37 21.

these all reinforce and suggest sudden impulsive actions, leading to separation, loss, death, etc...

There are more midpoints that are troublesome, see if you can find them...

In general, the midpoints that are examined in forensic charts include the following:

Mars/Saturn - death, cruelty, sadism

Mars/Uranus - sudden outbursts of anger, explosive situations, impulsive, sudden death or accident

Mars/ Neptune - Suicide, poisoning, drowning

Neptune/Pluto - disappearance, missing person, unsolved crime

Venus/Pluto - sexual obsession, rape

Another thing to keep in mind, fellow sleuthers. We all have these midpoints in our own charts, and we do not all go around killing people, poisoning them, and drowning right and left.

These are used when examining charts of crimes to see what kind of energies were active, what might confirm motives, and what the timing might be.

We still do not know if Casey did anything horrible to Caylee, and it would be foolish to assume that she did from these charts. These are just possibilities to be confirmed by the facts of the case, and the evidence presented by LE.

I am just a researcher, not a forecaster/predictor. So, keep an open mind, and realize that we may never know, because of all the Neptune involvement.
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Housemouse, I got banned for a week! I have been keeping up though. From what I understand of the charts, they are chilling.

Can you elaborate on the dates a little more, please? Are all these things happening on the 18th of June, or could there be a time frame of a couple of days?

I'm asking because I had the pleasure of riding to a seminar today with a long-time judge in our jurisdiction. We talked about this case at length (evidence, theories, and the dead body smell, also chances of conviction, etc). What you have said is spot on with what he said. He has many murder trials under his belt, a lot of experience with decomposition, and knowledge of the law and actions of LE. His take on this makes alot of this interesting info on WS tie together.

I am really curious as to what dates this could span over! You might find what he said to be quite interesting. I'm going to post it on the theory thread later.
 
Can you all print out these charts for easier marking up, and notes?

I haven't tried, but it might be helpful to start a file for yourselves. You can use them to practice and refine your sleuthing skills.

Print out the legend (a few pages back) until you have the "glyphs" memorized.
 
savannahanna said:
Lurker here but do know Casey born 3-19-86 as housemouse posted. Her sun sign is Pisces very close to Aries sign. She is very close to being born on the cusp between the two signs. Aries sun sign begins on March 21st. I don't know if she shows some characteristics of Aries also in her chart. I like astrology but leave the interpretations of charts to others who know much, much more than I.
Savannahanna
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Hi Housemouse & Savannahanna,
I was wondering if you could clarify the significance of being born on or near the cusp between 2 signs. My understanding has been that a person is only 1 sign; that is, an individual typically doesn't exhibit characteristics of both signs unless the "cusp" sign is strong in the chart in other areas. Not trying to contradict you, Savanna...just curious!
Thanks,
G&Td
 
my2cents said:
Housemouse, I got banned for a week! I have been keeping up though. From what I understand of the charts, they are chilling.

Can you elaborate on the dates a little more, please? Are all these things happening on the 18th of June, or could there be a time frame of a couple of days?

I'm asking because I had the pleasure of riding to a seminar today with a long-time judge in our jurisdiction. We talked about this case at length (evidence, theories, and the dead body smell, also chances of conviction, etc). What you have said is spot on with what he said. He has many murder trials under his belt, a lot of experience with decomposition, and knowledge of the law and actions of LE. His take on this makes alot of this interesting info on WS tie together.

I am really curious as to what dates this could span over! You might find what he said to be quite interesting. I'm going to post it on the theory thread later.
Click to expand...

Great, my two cents! I really look forward to it.

Some of these midpoints (the ones from the slow moving planets) take a while to move. The ones involving the faster moving planets obviously will change from day to day.

If any of you have a "favorite date/time", just let me know and I will post the chart(s) you want to see. I am of the opinion that many sleuthing eyes make a better broth. I say that, because I am human, and get fixed on a certain date and time, but I could be off. I like the Moon position in the wee hours of the 18th, which is why I get stuck on that time.

So, those of you who like the 16th, what time would you like me to use for making charts? And, don't worry about being amateurs, for I consider myself one...
 
GarAndTeed said:
Hi Housemouse & Savannahanna,
I was wondering if you could clarify the significance of being born on or near the cusp between 2 signs. My understanding has been that a person is only 1 sign; that is, an individual typically doesn't exhibit characteristics of both signs unless the "cusp" sign is strong in the chart in other areas. Not trying to contradict you, Savanna...just curious!
Thanks,
G&Td
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I haven't done much research on being born on the cusp, but here is my opinion anyway.

Too much attention is paid to the Sun sign in popular astrology. The position of the Sun is only one factor in a natal chart. The entire chart must be looked at, and attention paid to all the factors. We all have all the signs, all the planets and lights, and other personal points, and these are forming different aspects amongst themselves.

If you stop and think about it, somewhere around 1/12th of the world's population shares the same sun sign. To think that these are all just alike is sort of nonsensical, isn't it?

Don't worry about whether her Sun is in a late degree of a sign. Look at the whole chart.
 
housemouse said:
Great, my two cents! I really look forward to it.

Some of these midpoints (the ones from the slow moving planets) take a while to move. The ones involving the faster moving planets obviously will change from day to day.

If any of you have a "favorite date/time", just let me know and I will post the chart(s) you want to see. I am of the opinion that many sleuthing eyes make a better broth. I say that, because I am human, and get fixed on a certain date and time, but I could be off. I like the Moon position in the wee hours of the 18th, which is why I get stuck on that time.

So, those of you who like the 16th, what time would you like me to use for making charts? And, don't worry about being amateurs, for I consider myself one...
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Wow, IDK. Is the 18th the day that you are seeing the possibility of an accident/murder? Because part of the judge's theory is based 2-3 days later.

Here's a short outline of what he said:

Caylee killed and buried in the yard after being put in sandbox and playhouse. He thinks she was buried in a duffel bag (or something similar--said he doesn't see CA picking up a dead body with her hands.)

Based on the smell in the car...he thinks Caylee was dug up 2-3 days later (if she was in a bag, if not, the time line goes back to 1-2 days following). Said that decomp smell would not set in if a fresh body was put in car for a short trip that day. But, if body was buried and had started to decompose, secretion would have soaked through the bag into the carpet in the trunk. Based on his knowledge 2-3 days would be a good time for the decomp to progress to this point. He was leaning more towards Caylee being wrapped in a blanket and put in a bag. He said that most times, when a mother kills their child or is trying to cover for someone else, they will try to hide the child so it seems to them that they are carrying something else. They don't want to look at the face. That's where he came up with the 2-3 day time line from.

Specifically, I would like to know when the RAPE, Sexual abuse occured. Could this have been for Caylee or Casey?

Also, do you see any major confusion or disorientation on the day that you think she was killed?
 
I do not know if there was any rape or sexual abuse. The midpoint above is generic, and isn't specific to Caylee.

I think you are referring to the Venus/Pluto midpoint, right?

Venus represents:

young girl, maiden, love, art

Pluto represents:

ruthless use of force or power

If you think about all the different ways these principles could play out, you can see that rape is only one of many possibilities.

Here is a question for amateur astrologers. How could these energies be used positively if prominent in a natal chart? See if you can come up with at least 5 or 6 ways. Then think of all the negative ways these could be used? Add other planets into the mix, and make up new "pictures", both positive and negative....
 
my2cents, I am confused by what dates the judge had in mind?

Remember, we do not know when this happened, we can only guess. And, we do not know where the parents were, or where Casey was, from the 16th through the 24th. All we have is unreliable statements.

Tell me what you think the timeline might be, and I will cast some charts.
 
housemouse said:
my2cents, I am confused by what dates the judge had in mind?

Remember, we do not know when this happened, we can only guess. And, we do not know where the parents were, or where Casey was, from the 16th through the 24th. All we have is unreliable statements.

Tell me what you think the timeline might be, and I will cast some charts.
Click to expand...

Lol, well, I am not really sure. Didn't you have a good estimate based on the charts of when you thought it may have occured? 16th or 17th maybe? If you base it off your chart time line, then it will be 2-3 days later. I do not remember the exact date that you said something bad may have happened. I will try to look for it, in case you do not have the charts saved.
 
housemouse said:
OK, I see that I can't post attachments. But here is my previous post on Casey's chart.

Casey has her natal Sun and Mercury in a square to her Mars and Uranus.

This, in her natal,chart, indicates what we already know from her behavior...

(agitated, incoherent, and erratic thinking, excitable, argumentative, quarrelsome, self willed obstinacy, accident-prone, potential for violence, haste and premature action, liability or proneness to accidents or injuries)

Given that her Sun and Mercury are in Pisces, she should have a very subjective and personal outlook on life, and would be very impressionable, moody, and prevarication is also probable under stress.

Mars and Uranus in Saggitarius account for her impulsive behavior, sudden outbursts of anger, acting in haste, her need for excitement and intolerance of routine.

Now, with Uranus presently sitting on her Mercury, and squaring her natal Uranus and Mars, and the transit of Pluto squaring her Sun, I see the potential for violence, sudden impulsive actions, and then lying about it. The Moon travels so quickly around the signs that it is generally a triggering device, so I wonder what happened on the dates mentioned above.

It is very possible that anything that might have happened to Caylee was a sudden and disastrous accident, caused by sudden impulsive actions on Casey's part. But, given the planets in Pisces, her natural tendency to lie when caught is eventually going to catch up with her.

Pluto will be her downfall, for it's present position can cause her to over-estimate her power to escape the consequences of her actions, and she can be arrogant about it all.

I feel she is in danger of a mental meltdown at some point, particularly when her house of cards comes tumbling down.

Now, all that said, there are other possible times for whatever happened to Caylee to have happened during this period, as Uranus and Pluto are the cause of the tension, and the Moon would be the trigger.

That is why we need to tie down whether the ex-BF is absolutely sure he heard Caylee's voice on the phone on the 24th. (Or was Casey doing an imitation off a bit away from the phone to concoct her cover story)

Mercury rules telephones, among other things, and Mars rules ex BFs!

P.S. I just noticed (smacking head!) that on the 17th/18th the transiting Sun was in opposition to transiting Pluto, and both were squaring her natal Sun... all the more worriesome, in my humble and amateur opinion.
Click to expand...

This is one of the dates that I had in mind. Unfortunately, I do not know what chart this corresponds with. Bare with me, I am new to on-line chat and looking all this stuff up!
 
housemouse said:
See my post above, where I delineate basically what is shown in her natal chart.

From watching the transits, I am wondering about the time period starting very late in the evening on June 17th, through the afternoon of June 18th.

The moon was triggering off the difficult transits to the hard aspects in her natal chart.

You can spot those by looking for the red lines with the little squares on them. The Sun and Mercury are near the top of the chart, and have a couple of red lines going to Mars and Uranus over on the right side.

I will post a chart next, showing Casey/Natal in the center ring, and the transits to the natal planets in the outer ring, so you can see what I am looking at.
Click to expand...

Here is another good one.
 
Ok, if Casey "lost it" and did something to Caylee very late on the 17th, or early on the 18th (and that is just my assumption because of the Moon's transit to Casey's chart), then what?

Where did she do it? Where might she have put Caylee?

If she did it earlier, say around 5PM or so, on the 16th, she could have put the body in the sandbox, shut the lid, and moved the body on the 18th. There would have been enough time for decomp to have set in, I am thinking.

But, does it make sense for her to have done it in daylight? I just do not know enough about where people were during this time frame.

Back to study charts a bit more.
 
I sent you the timeline in your pm. I really have no clue what I am looking for as far as the charts go. Told you, I'm not good at astrology! Just base it off the date you think something happened and see if the other stuff corresponds to 2-3 days after. I can provide the theory, but you must interpret it for me :) I'm astrology stupid! Some of this stuff looks to me like there may have been something leading up to this, so I may not be reading the charts right. You are the expert! Thanks for keeping up with the charts. Seems to be the only thing in this case that makes sense of the madness that spews from any of the Anthony's mouthes.
 
housemouse said:
Ok, if Casey "lost it" and did something to Caylee very late on the 17th, or early on the 18th (and that is just my assumption because of the Moon's transit to Casey's chart), then what?

Where did she do it? Where might she have put Caylee?

If she did it earlier, say around 5PM or so, on the 16th, she could have put the body in the sandbox, shut the lid, and moved the body on the 18th. There would have been enough time for decomp to have set in, I am thinking.

But, does it make sense for her to have done it in daylight? I just do not know enough about where people were during this time frame.

Back to study charts a bit more.
Click to expand...

He seems to think that she was in crazy mode and put her in the sand box first then realized the lid wouldn't fit, then moved her to the playhouse while she went to go get the shovel. A freshly dead body would leave a faint, faint scent in the sandbox and playhouse (a scent that the dogs could pick up on and it not be a strong hit). The one in the trunk, because of the smell described by Cindy, would have been a later secretion because it was so foul and strong.
 
Originally Posted by GarAndTeed
Hi Housemouse & Savannahanna,
I was wondering if you could clarify the significance of being born on or near the cusp between 2 signs. My understanding has been that a person is only 1 sign; that is, an individual typically doesn't exhibit characteristics of both signs unless the "cusp" sign is strong in the chart in other areas. Not trying to contradict you, Savanna...just curious!
Thanks,
G&Td

I am out of my depth here especially when there are so many other factors that will influence which Houseman knows better than I. I am quoting directly from "Secret Language of Birthdays": Pisces-Aries Cusp occurring March 19-24. Remember I am new at posting so hope I am not doing wrong in posting info. "Those born on the P-A cusp are unusually direct in approach to life, their outspokenness can make them alternately admired or misunderstood. They are elemental, basic individuals who cannot and will not be denied, no matter what their station in life. P-A people rarely see anything wrong with their actions & generally refuse to change their attitude or lifestyle for anyone. Even the mildest of them seem to carry a sense of infallibility about their person. Through insistence they tend to get their way. Every cusp personality comprises conflicting elements, being influenced by two very different adjacent signs." This is in direct quote of the book. I am sure that there can be other thoughts & interpretations on this. There is more written but I think I used enough space and with all the other aspects, etc. in one's chart some of these traits can be more intense or less.
Housemouse, I defer to you as resident expert! Thank you for putting in so much time and effort, much more than I could ever do in posting all the charts and info. I have books to use but it all becomes confusing to me if I venture much further.:doh:
Many thanks Housemouse,
Savannahanna
 
Savannahanna, that is a good quote, and it might be correct in some cases.

Casey has her Venus in Aries, and by progression, her sun would now be in Aries, which is why your comments on cusps might very well fit Casey.

Her Mars (rules Aries) and Uranus squaring her Sun and Mercury could also fit with the descriotion you have given, particularly since they are squaring from Sagittarius (outspoken, tactless, forthright).

Do not hesitate to ask questions, and remember, I am an amateur. I do not consider myself an expert, and always try to qualify my research, because God is the only expert in astrology, certainly not us fallible humans.

And, Savannahhanna! Please keep on studying and commenting! You have added to the thread, and we can all learn from each other's observations!
 
Here are Caylee's midpoints. Some of them are very upsetting to me, so much so that I do not want to discuss them.

See if you can identify which ones, from looking at Casey's midpoints.


Cayleemidpoints.jpg
 
OK, look at Saturn, Venus, Mars, and Pluto in Caylee's chart. Notice the number.

Then go back to Casey's midpoint chart, and look at the same numbers. Then look at the midpoint chart for the 18th, checking the numbers again.

Print them all out, and mark them up. If you need keywords, let me know, and I will do my best.
 
I probably should try to write up an explanation of how midpoints work. I will try to do so before bed tonight, but after the "yap-fest" at Saddleback.

These are not all that hard, really.
 
Midpoints are just a way of adding information about how the energies associated with the planets can work together, and be triggered by transits.

Calculating these is just math, and since computers do all the work, all we have to do is to understand the symbolic language of the planets involved, and combine/integrate their meaning.

What is most interesting about midpoints? They can be triggered by transits of planets. Here is an example from my own natal chart.

I looked for a hard one to manage, and it is Mars/Neptune = Saturn. The meaning of this midpoint active in my chart is the following, taken from Ebertin's "The Combination of Stellar Influences".

instability, feelings of inferiority, misdirected energy, lasting weakness or illness, consequences of a weak will

To see when this midpoint will be activated, transits must be watched. I have a non-functioning thyroid, fibromyalgia, and arthritis. I can figure when fast moving transits, like the moon, hit this point, I am going to feel pretty tired and discouraged by my lack of energy. My joints are going to hurt a lot more, and I will feel like taking to my bed.

I won't feel like doing the dishes, taking out the trash, going to the market, or neatening up the house. I will make excuses, and try to avoid physical action.

Does this make sense? I don't worry overly much about this, for everyone has health issues to deal with, sooner or later. I just accept this as part of my life, and do my best, trying not to whine about it too much.
 
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