WV - Sodder Family - 5 children, Christmas eve 1945 - #3

Wow! I've spent the last several weeks reading everything in this forum and all of the articles & associated links. The Sodder name seemed familiar to me when I registered recently but I think that stems from having been a lurker here at websleuths for quite some time.

This story/case is captivating and those who've worked on it here are amazing! I'm in awe at some of the work.

I have a couple questions.

Since there are Cipriani brothers why was it up to their sister, Mrs. Sodder, to "settle Mr. Cipriani's estate?" Wouldn't this have fallen to the males? And was it ever discovered exactly what 'settling the estate' meant in detail?

Was there ever a more current dig investigation? I recall reading one of the last posts by JBandy as indicating he'd become good friends with the current property owners and that they'd given their ok for this to take place.

Once again, Wow!

I don't know the whole story about the settling of the estate. My guess is that there was either some kind of dispute, or something that all the heirs needed to agree to. Others might be able to answer this better.

Thank you for joining us here and looking into this case. I know it's a little addictive, isn't it? Welcome.

Thanks for the quick reply birdie. Addictive? hmm, only in an all-consuming, must-go-read-more, can't-stop-thinking-on-it kind of way. :crazy:

Thanks for the welcome!

birdie74 said:

I don't know the whole story about the settling of the estate. My guess is that there was either some kind of dispute, or something that all the heirs needed to agree to. Others might be able to answer this better.

Thank you for joining us here and looking into this case. I know it's a little addictive, isn't it? Welcome.

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Very addictive.

I received a message from the lady I've been talking to in Cortez. She has spoken to a man who was 14 when Alma Cipriani died in the crash off the bridge, and he is the son of the Evers couple who owned the bar. He said that he will never forget it. The sirens went off and they all started running. The draw was up and there was a big wheel in the middle. The car had to have been airborne, and there was alcohol involved.

After she was found, her body was brought to a fish dock and he went down there. She was badly bruised, and her hair was wet and over her face, so that may be why her brother didn't identify her right away. Mr. Amlong was the sheriff and the one who held the inquest.

He said there were some kids, but he knew nothing about them... something about a brother of Frank's.

I'll try to contact him myself soon to ask him a few more questions.

Birdie, thanks for the update. Can't wait to hear what he has to say.

Laura, did you ever hear any more from the lady from Walt Whitman?

Sadly she hasn't written back. Which is unfortunate. She was my only link to Walt Witman school AND Louise.

Has anyone heard from granddaughter? Sent her the photo and have not recieved anything back. is she still even searching for these children or using websleuths at all?

Can someone call WV, the library or archives? I wonder if these children could have been playing in a mine, an abandoned mine or something. They had new toys from their sister, so what if they went outside that night to play in their special place, an old unused mine, and it caved in on them? And let's take this a step furthur. If the parents closed down the mine when they still had their children could it have been because the mine was deemed unsafe? Let's look at a few possibilities from there. George closes the mines because they are deemed unsafe. The children play in the old cave and there is a cave in. They have no way out, and die there together. Because of the fire everyone thinks they are dead anyway, and no one checks the local mines. Also, by the time the father suspects something else, he automatically thinks abduction, fire was caused intentionally, etc. So he doesn't check the local mines either.

Just some thoughts. Let me know what you all think.

Granddaughter and I have emailed periodically, but it's been a few weeks since we've had any contact. I know the last time she apologized for not getting back to me sooner, but she's had a lot going on with her business and family. I don't think she or her family have lost interest in the case, but she's just a very busy person right now.

I read one newspaper article from a few years after the fire which stated that police had been searching the old mines in the area. At the time, they were going on the theory that the children were murdered shortly after the fire, and their bodies were dumped somewhere in the county.

Laura, the way you asked the question made me wonder. Did the Sodders have a mine on their property? I don't remember hearing about one, but you never know. I would think that if there was one, it would have been the first one they checked.

Hi Laura, I don't know how likely back in those days it would have been to close a mine due to safety reasons (my impression is mine owners were very focused on getting that profitable product out, period)... which led to a great deal of stripped mines and at that point abandoned due to depletion of product. Either way it leaves a once booming mine silenced, doesn't it? If I've read it before I'm not remembering how close the Sodder's place was to any actual mines tho. Anyone aware of any being so close these children could have scampered off in the night to one of them?

Also, if I'm recalling accurately, there was a light skim of snow on the ground that night wasn't there? I'm not sure they'd want to go outside for more than tending to the chickens and the cow as they had been instructed to do since it was middle of the night in late December... brrrr. But maybe I've lost my childlike sense of adventure over the years.

This thinking tho does at least offer a potential valid reason as to why none of the missing Sodder children's remains were found within the destruction. I don't think that the few bone fragments they found (nor the fleshy or organ type material they produced) had any connection to any of the children.

It's hard for me to come to any kind of conclusion for my own thinking other than what Mr. & Mrs. Sodder believed. The combination of the events that happened shortly before Christmas eve '45, that horrid night, and the events & "investigation" after are just too bizarre and sometimes "coincidental" for me to look at them in any other light than what they present themselves to me in at first glance.

I am curious tho, if anyone can answer or if granddaughter is still reading, if Mr. Sodder did indeed check mines. Being in that business I would think if he felt the need to investigate them he definitely would. Does anyone know if that did happen, at any time.

The idea of someone feeling the Sodder's, Mrs. Sodder in particular but likely her husband as he was the bread winner, needed to "settle" Mr. Cipriani's "estate" (were those the words?) still looms in my mind. If it was just a matter of the man owed a few bills or what-have-you that's one thing but it sounded as if it was made to sound ominous. And I'm still curious as to why the male Cipriani children weren't the ones to have this matter fall to. As I recall a couple of them did live near their father... one of them even showed up the morning of the fire, correct? (and I was left with the impression he was one of the ones encouraging the Sodder's to accept their loss rather quickly?)

Laura, I certainly would like a simpler answer such as the mines. Some of the info just seems to complex to really wrap my mind around but if it were something simple... why do I feel LE went way way out of their way to complicate something that was indeed, altho horrific, explainable. Ugh, I'm spinning my mental wheels, lol, I'm gonna think on the mine idea for a while.

Laura_Bean said:

Has anyone heard from granddaughter? Sent her the photo and have not recieved anything back. is she still even searching for these children or using websleuths at all?

Can someone call WV, the library or archives? I wonder if these children could have been playing in a mine, an abandoned mine or something. They had new toys from their sister, so what if they went outside that night to play in their special place, an old unused mine, and it caved in on them? And let's take this a step furthur. If the parents closed down the mine when they still had their children could it have been because the mine was deemed unsafe? Let's look at a few possibilities from there. George closes the mines because they are deemed unsafe. The children play in the old cave and there is a cave in. They have no way out, and die there together. Because of the fire everyone thinks they are dead anyway, and no one checks the local mines. Also, by the time the father suspects something else, he automatically thinks abduction, fire was caused intentionally, etc. So he doesn't check the local mines either.

Just some thoughts. Let me know what you all think.

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Mr Sodder did not own a mine He ran a trucking service and worked for the mines. He didn't close a mine down also it would have been way too dark for the children to go to a mine and play. Children were never allowed around a mine back then because it was too dangerous.

I am not sure if it was in reading here on the forum or within article links now but I thought it was mentioned that there were "Sodder" mines still in operation today?? I know that he had the trucking business but I was under the impression that he also had a closer affiliation with the mines.

At the time of the fire, Mr. Sodder hadn't had the business too long- I was thinking maybe 2 or 3 years. I was under the impression that at the time he only had trucks, but the business was expanded years later to include mines.

Okay now that's interesting. He had trucks but no mines? Who owned the mines? It might be something to think about. Perhaps the person who owned the mines that Mr. Sodder was working with had a reason to be angry with him. What if he thought Mr. Sodder was stealing profits from him or something? Can we find out who Mr. Sodder was working for?

Shoot ... just typed a big, long message and lost it. I think I timed out taking a phone call. Here's the short version. Sorry I've been absent for so long. As Birdie said, I 've been swamped with my business and family stuff. We recently added two very young foster children to our home, so I haven't had any spare time for weeks.

On the trucking business, my grandfather wasn't hauling coal at the time. He was primarily moving goods from train and boat to stores and private individuals. These were the days before semi trucks rolling across the US, when long hauls were done by boat and river and then moved by trucks. His coal mines began around 1948 and ended some time in the 1960's after a fatality in the mine due to methane. Mining was very risky back then, and my grandfather couldn't stand to lose another life. His trucking business continued after his death through my uncles. They did haul coal for others after closing the mines.

There were no mines near my grandparent's home. My grandfather's mines (after the fire) were on Gauley Mountain near Hawks Nest, and later at Boomer.

Hope this helps. I'll try not to be absent for so long.

Granddaughter, that's wonderful about the foster children. It's great to hear from you, and thank you for clarifying that about the mines.

Thanks for stopping in Granddaughter. Thanks to for the info. Indeed, it is good news about the two foster children - bless you for blessing them!

Has it ever been said what Mr. Cipriani did for a living? I'm not recalling.

snowme said:

Has it ever been said what Mr. Cipriani did for a living? I'm not recalling.

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I have read he owned a little store in Smithers-other than that I do not know what he did for a living.

Thanks fox1950! I wonder if Mr. Sodder's delivery of goods via his trucking business had any connection with/to (directly or indirectly) Mr. Cipriani's business. I'm still snagging on the "settling Mr. Cipriani's estate" (paraphrasing).