Ping Map for June 19, 2008 - Discuss that day only

Tony posted a while ago on SM. He said that he did not give her to use the jeep while he was away and that he was surprised to find out that she had. Sounds like KC "borrowed" it when she could, without his knowledge. Maybe he had a class that night or some other commitment that made her feel it could be safely borrowed without his realizing...

MOO

JWG - Apart from the Baez blunder, the witness list is identical to first one that was released for the neglect charges. Even the typos on Annie's and Dante's last names are the same. I suspect that they just issued it due to some sort of deadline and I believe that they can change/adjust it as they see fit leading up to the trial. I wouldn't read too much into it yet.

Pink Panther said:

Tony posted a while ago on SM. He said that he did not give her to use the jeep while he was away and that he was surprised to find out that she had. Sounds like KC "borrowed" it when she could, without his knowledge. Maybe he had a class that night or some other commitment that made her feel it could be safely borrowed without his realizing...

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Tony posts on SM? What is his user name? Can someone ask him two questions?

One, what time of day did they meet with Matt C at Cranes Landing? Was it late afternoon like 4:30 to 5:00 or mid-afternoon like 3:00? Or some other time.

Two, did he know KC borrowed his jeep that day after they saw the apartment?

It looks like kc last ping on the 18th was at 6:57 pm, and the next one was at 8:32 am on the morning of the 19th. Does this mean that the phone was turned for that period ? tia

JWG said:

Tony posts on SM? What is his user name? Can someone ask him two questions?

One, what time of day did they meet with Matt C at Cranes Landing? Was it late afternoon like 4:30 to 5:00 or mid-afternoon like 3:00? Or some other time.

Two, did he know KC borrowed his jeep that day after they saw the apartment?

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JWG~ Remember she also "might" have rented a car. Enterprise was the 2nd to last number KC stored in her phone.

JWG said:

Based on the interview with Chris S. and the pattern of cell pings on the 17th and the 18th, it is almost certain that KC was at Chris's house for the bulk of the missing time on the 19th. Also note that there were thunderstorms and rain in that area during this time, so it is unlikely this window is when KC dumped the body.

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fwiw, the Chris S. interview with LE was interesting in that they told him he was free to leave whenever he wanted, which told me they suspected him of something. This is moo.

Continuing to fill in the blanks:

1:43 PM to 1:47 PM, Caysee chats via IM on her computer with Iassen. Wants him to go to Fusian the next day. (page 2616 of most recent document dump)

Using cell ID information gathered by BreatheLife21 for tower 56, it is clear the original area of interest I referred to in this post is no longer as interesting.

Again, the reason this day is so important is that the forensic information indicates that fluids from Caylee's body seeped into the trunk liner on this afternoon - no later. So the body was either removed from the trunk on this day or placed in a leak-proof container.

Here is a revised timelime:

Midnight to 2:30:00 PM2:30:00 PM to 2:45:00 PM2:45:00 PM to 3:00:00 PM3:05:00 PM to 3:50:00 PM3:50:00 PM to 4:35:00 PM 4:35:00 PM to 4:40:00 PM 4:40:00 PM to 4:50:00 PM 4:50:00 PM to 5:00:00 PM 5:00:00 PM to 5:10:00 PM 5:10:00 PM to 5:15:00 PM 5:15:00 PM to 5:20:00 PM 5:20:00 PM to 5:55:00 PM5:55:00 PM to 8:00:00 PM8:00:00 PM to 9:10:00 PM 9:10:00 PM to OnwardIn support of the above, note that Matt C. is on the witness list but Chris S. is not. I believe this is because Matt C's testimony will help LE establish the time in which Caylee's body is dumped, whereas Chris S's will not. While her driving to his house in AL's jeep provides food for interesting speculation, it had nothing to do with dumping the body.

IMHO, there's a compelling case to be made that Casey used Amy's totalled car to store Caylee's body and her actions as described by JWG above were in response to Amy coming over that afternoon regarding her car and Casey transferring the body back to the Pontiac.

1:06PM Casey to Amy: "Call me when you’re headed over to see your car."
1:07PM Amy to Casey: "I'm on my way."
1:20PM Casey places 2 calls to Amy
2:09PM Casey calls an unidentified #
2:10PM Casey texts Matt C. where JWG picks up above

...certainly makes the speculation about WW's buddy commenting about a repair and a car smelling of decomp (Amy's) interesting.

...also suggests that the stain was imparted to the Pontiac in this brief time between getting the body outta Amy's car, into the Pontiac, then disposed. For example, if Casey didn't have a leak-proof container and brought the trashbag down from Tony's apt. (that contained the pizza box & Nate's receipt)...then, she just improvised...and poorly.

...and as JWG suggests above. Casey stops to get a better container, then, transfers the body into it in an area that provides some cover...or disposes all of it altogether. Putting it in Tony's Jeep to improve the disposal during her cell inactivity/visit w/ Chris timeframe would be enabled by a truly leak-proof container. Since Casey had no way to ensure Tony wouldn't insist on taking the Pontiac to view the Crane Landing Apt. she prolly wanted the body outta there fast.

I'd say all of this reinforces the 6/19 disposal and we've simply shifted the 'area of interest' a bit. We're getting closer...

Like to hear from anyone familiar w/ Amy's statements if more details are provided on the exchange that afternoon. Did Amy make it over? How long did she stay? etc. etc.

Perhaps the unidentified # has something to do w/ getting access to Amy's car....:waitasec:

BondJamesBond said:

...also suggests that the stain was imparted to the Pontiac in this brief time between getting the body outta Amy's car, into the Pontiac, then disposed. For example, if Casey didn't have a leak-proof container and brought the trashbag down from Tony's apt. (that contained the pizza box & Nate's receipt)...then, she just improvised...and poorly.

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And this is perhaps why she backs into the garage on the 20th, because she has a brand new stain that needs cleaning.

Unexpected consequences.

I thought the same thing about KC having placed Caylee's body in Amy's totaled car. The car was at TonE's apartment complex and there was mention of a cover for it. Kc sure was insistent on getting to that car before Amy had it towed. I wonder if Amy's car is still available and if forensics tests could be done on it. If Caylee's dead body was in that vehicle then decomp would be found. This wouldn't prove where Caylee's little body is now but it sure the heck would go a long way in proving KC killed her.

BondJamesBond said:

...also suggests that the stain was imparted to the Pontiac in this brief time between getting the body outta Amy's car, into the Pontiac, then disposed. For example, if Casey didn't have a leak-proof container and brought the trashbag down from Tony's apt. (that contained the pizza box & Nate's receipt)...then, she just improvised...and poorly.

...and as JWG suggests above. Casey stops to get a better container, then, transfers the body into it in an area that provides some cover...or disposes all of it altogether. Putting it in Tony's Jeep to improve the disposal during her cell inactivity/visit w/ Chris timeframe would be enabled by a truly leak-proof container. Since Casey had no way to ensure Tony wouldn't insist on taking the Pontiac to view the Crane Landing Apt. she prolly wanted the body outta there fast.

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I'm thinking she got the container while she had Tony's Jeep. There is a lot of unaccounted for time between 5 and 9 PM. We know she spent up to two hours visiting with Chris S. and his mom - while it was pouring rain outside. But, she approached his home from the east, so I am speculating she was at Target Waterford Lakes before she drove to Chris's.

Here's some more wild speculation to work with me on. When did she know she needed a leakproof container? I think that when she opened the trunk between 2:45 and 3 :50 she realized for the first time that there were fluids leaking.

If the body had been in Amy's car (FWIW, I am having a hard time seeing that right now) perhaps it had not yet leaked, or done very little. So she was able to move it without making a mess, but the act of moving it jostled it enough that in Casey's car it began to leak a fair amount.

So she opens the trunk, sees it leaking, but needs to get the body out (it would be nice to fully discuss a bit more why she needed to do that then). If there was a garbage bag involved it was not doing its job. So how does she get a 30-lb body out of the car when it is leaking fluids, and the bag it is in is now slimy? And do so without being seen?

This is where perhaps the Oviedo home comes into play. I came to this site late in the game and missed whatever discussion there was, so I apologize if I am repeating what has already been tossed around. When I ran across the address to calculate drive time, I looked at aerial photos and became very interested in that barn. Looks like one could drive right up to it, and be hidden from the neighbors.

If she could get into the barn, she might have been able to find something to put the body on or into in order to carry it out of the trunk and put it in a hiding place (probably the barn itself). I think whatever it was it would have to fit in her trunk so she could roll or slide the body into or on it. Thinking of what is in my shed, something like a tarp, plastic tub, a small piece of plywood, a sled (or wait, Florida does not get snow) would work. You get my drift.

She obviously cannot leave the body in the barn for long. After the rain stops and she leaves Chris S., I think she drives back to Oviedo with the newly purchased leakproof container and transfers the body into that, seals it, and returns back to Tony's where she then places the container back into her trunk.

So, if this wild speculation of mine is true, there would have been something in the shed with decomposition fluid on it that matched closely what was found in Casey's car. The fluid would be on the object, not on the ground/dirt. I wonder how far after the fact such residue can be tested?

JWG said:

I'm thinking she got the container while she had Tony's Jeep. There is a lot of unaccounted for time between 5 and 9 PM. We know she spent up to two hours visiting with Chris S. and his mom - while it was pouring rain outside. But, she approached his home from the east, so I am speculating she was at Target Waterford Lakes before she drove to Chris's.

Here's some more wild speculation to work with me on. When did she know she needed a leakproof container? I think that when she opened the trunk between 2:45 and 3 :50 she realized for the first time that there were fluids leaking.

If the body had been in Amy's car (FWIW, I am having a hard time seeing that right now) perhaps it had not yet leaked, or done very little. So she was able to move it without making a mess, but the act of moving it jostled it enough that in Casey's car it began to leak a fair amount.

So she opens the trunk, sees it leaking, but needs to get the body out (it would be nice to fully discuss a bit more why she needed to do that then). If there was a garbage bag involved it was not doing its job. So how does she get a 30-lb body out of the car when it is leaking fluids, and the bag it is in is now slimy? And do so without being seen?

This is where perhaps the Oviedo home comes into play. I came to this site late in the game and missed whatever discussion there was, so I apologize if I am repeating what has already been tossed around. When I ran across the address to calculate drive time, I looked at aerial photos and became very interested in that barn. Looks like one could drive right up to it, and be hidden from the neighbors.

If she could get into the barn, she might have been able to find something to put the body on or into in order to carry it out of the trunk and put it in a hiding place (probably the barn itself). I think whatever it was it would have to fit in her trunk so she could roll or slide the body into or on it. Thinking of what is in my shed, something like a tarp, plastic tub, a small piece of plywood, a sled (or wait, Florida does not get snow) would work. You get my drift.

She obviously cannot leave the body in the barn for long. After the rain stops and she leaves Chris S., I think she drives back to Oviedo with the newly purchased leakproof container and transfers the body into that, seals it, and returns back to Tony's where she then places the container back into her trunk.

So, if this wild speculation of mine is true, there would have been something in the shed with decomposition fluid on it that matched closely what was found in Casey's car. The fluid would be on the object, not on the ground/dirt. I wonder how far after the fact such residue can be tested?

Click to expand...

In full disclosure, I'm a pre-disposed to believe something involving the Oviedo house

...thinking she perhaps had Caylee in a cloth duffle initially from 6/17 trip to G&C's.

...hafta look closer to determine when the body went into Amy's car, but, suggest it was very soon per next point

...established in other threads re: decomp characteristics, that fluids & odor will be released if/when the body is disturbed vs. undisturbed. Involves the integrity of the slower decomposing external tissue that keeps the faster decomposing internal organs contained.

...upon arriving @ Amy's car 6/19 afternoon (some have suggested the car may've been under a cover) and exposing the body...lets say in Amy's trunk...Casey notes the odor...may note small amount of fluid upon starting to lift the duffle, or seeing in Amy's car after moving it...then has to make a second trip to apt to 'take out the trash'...empties small trash bags into the pontiac trunk and puts the duffle w/ the body into the large trash bag in the pontiac.

...drive to oviedo for transfer into a container is certainly plausible

OK...some discretion advised....:sick:

...initial thoughts on the oviedo transfer...it would be messy...this would be the fully-obscured transfer Casey knew she needed in order to separate any evidence that would connect the body with her, which meant some or all fo the following:

* removing the body from trashbag
* removing the body from the duffle
* removing the clothes from the body

This took some time...and would involve leaking fluids, etc. => oviedo location would have something to offer in terms of (a) something left behind directly involved in the transfer, like a plastic bags/sheet/tarp, etc., or (b) something indirectly involved, like items taken outta the trunk and inadvertently left behind. Anything that came in direct contact w/ the body would have the potential to have DNA, which, if not subsequently chemically disturbed would be intact for analysis, IMHO.

The duffle, etc. then had to be disposed in a separate location to prevent them from proving her connection to the crime.

If there can be said to be a positive to a transfer to a leak-proof container it is that the body may remain in the container after disposal, hence, some evidence may remain vs. an exposed disposal.

This all works for me...needs some intense focus on that evening now.

I am absolutely on board with this theory. I think when Caylee died it was at the A's home, she then transferred the body to the barn, and use 6/17 to find a better place, but knew that the body would be safe and hidden out of site. She then went back to the O home and transferred the body to the trunk, that would give you the 2.6 days of decomp fluid in the trunk, if the body was leaking. I think she had to use something she had or something there to transfer the body as I bet she was surprised to see the condition the body was in. I also still maintain the position that the decomp in the backyard of the A's house could have been items she buried prior to GA redoing the back yard. I noticed a floor attached to the playhouse, she may have used that shovel as leverage to lift the playhouse and place clothing or what ever under it. A body would be too large.

OK...event that occurred on 6/20, but, relates to what we're developing for 6/19, so I'll post a brief note and link here. http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3025879&postcount=334

I'll try to condense...

Bobo :blowkiss: noted, completely outta being a sharp observer, as we were diving into the Amy' totalled car discussion on that thread about a xfer 6/19PM and #'s that were dialed, that one of the (321) numbers listed is a "BJ Jacke"...BlackJack...THE BlackJack!?!? just maybe!!!

Casey called this # only 2 times in the entire 6/15-7/16 period....on 6/20...w/ durations of 0 and 6 seconds, both from Tony's apt.

Could it be that she couldn't find the phone 6/20 and was trying to locate it...then she realized it could've been lost in the body shuffling!


I'm encouraged now that there's yet another piece of evidence jus' waiting to be found.

Wasn't there also dirt found in her trunk? Can forensics match dirt samples with the dirt that might be in the barn at Oviedo house as you all have discussed?

Do you think KC would have gotten "messy" and had to change clothes?

I am on board with this timeline and theory.

Is there anyone who lives in the area that could take the time to drive the routes at the times that have been listed and see if with traffic etc it works? Of course they would not to follow it on in one day as she would have but it may help in determine if this is doable. It would not answer any of the questions of body disposal but it would give us a better idea of how long the drive times truly take and expose any glaring problems.

On of the other big questions is the visit to Cranes Apartment and how long that process took. I would also love to know if because Casey did not have her ID and she could not view the apartment was she left to wonder around the apartment complex on her own, left in a office to wait for Matt C. & Tony to come back or just how that would be handled. It would also give us a clue as to whether Matt C. would have had any way of seeing what vehicle they would have come in.

I just can’t help but wonder if Casey had realized that there is a problem; Amy is coming to Tony’s apartment about her car and Casey has to move the body then why the visit to Cranes Apartments in the middle of what has just become a major problem day. This visit under the guise of looking at an apartment had to be for a reason. I originally had theorized that Casey wanted to get Tony to sign a lease on an apartment to insure that Tony would be returning to Florida from NY after his trip home because he was now locked into an apartment lease. Casey was going to use Matt C for a little extra friendly persuasion from an old friend to make sure he would sign on the dotted line but when Matt called Casey back about taking the apartment she seemed to blow him off and was not the least interested so I no longer think that was the reason she went there. Not if she found herself with having to move Caylee’s body on this day. It just does not make any sense to add apartment hunting right smack in the middle of a ‘crisis’. Why? What would going to Cranes Landing Apartments with Tony benefit her on that day?

The other question I have is did Casey know that she could not go with Tony into the model apartment without her ID and she did not bring it with her on purpose. If so for what reason?
As far as her phone log for the day
There was a call to a number that we do not know as of yet who was on the other end and then an incoming text from Lee and an outgoing call to Lexus both of these are rare communications on Casey’s phone.
Here are the calls for that day Thursday June 19th.
8:32:28 AM OUTGOING TEXT 9286 Casey A. 5443 Tony L. (Cell) Tower 46: 0.5 mi W of Amscot, 2 mi S of TonE L
11:03:47 AM INCOMING TEXT 5443 Tony L. (Cell) 9286 Casey A. Tower 57: 0.5 mi NW of TonE L Apt
11:57:54 AM INCOMING TEXT 4058 Jenna "Shotgirl" 9286 Casey A. Tower 57: 0.5 mi NW of TonE L Apt
12:06:38 PM OUTGOING TEXT 9286 Casey A. 4058 Jenna "Shotgirl" Tower 58: 0.5 mi NE of TonE L Apt
12:07:44 PM OUTGOING TEXT 9286 Casey A. 5443 Tony L. (Cell) Tower 58: 0.5 mi NE of TonE L Apt
12:09:25 PM INCOMING TEXT 5443 Tony L. (Cell) 9286 Casey A. Tower 57: 0.5 mi NW of TonE L Apt
12:09:45 PM OUTGOING TEXT 9286 Casey A. 5443 Tony L. (Cell) Tower 57: 0.5 mi NW of TonE L Apt
12:11:39 PM OUTGOING CALL 9286 Casey A. 4909 Anthony Home Tower 58: 0.5 mi NE of TonE L Apt
12:12:41 PM OUTGOING CALL 9286 Casey A. 9214 Amy H. 33.0 Tower 57: 0.5 mi NW of TonE L Apt
12:14:31 PM INCOMING TEXT 4058 Jenna "Shotgirl" 9286 Casey A. Tower 57: 0.5 mi NW of TonE L Apt
1:06:56 PM OUTGOING TEXT 9286 Casey A. 9214 Amy H. Tower 58: 0.5 mi NE of TonE L Apt Call me when you’re headed over to see your car.
1:07:32 PM INCOMING TEXT 9214 Amy H. 9286 Casey A. Tower 57: 0.5 mi NW of TonE L Apt I'm on my way.
1:14:33 PM INCOMING TEXT 9286 Casey A. Tower 57: 0.5 mi NW of TonE L Apt
1:20:18 PM OUTGOING CALL 9286 Casey A. 9214 Amy H. 0.1 Tower 58: 0.5 mi NE of TonE L Apt
1:20:41 PM OUTGOING CALL 9286 Casey A. 9214 Amy H. 4.6 Tower 57: 0.5 mi NW of TonE L Apt
2:09:36 PM OUTGOING CALL 9286 Casey A. 81 Unidentified # 0081 Tower 57: 0.5 mi NW of TonE L Apt
2:10:36 PM OUTGOING TEXT 9286 Casey A. 7965 Matthew C. Tower 58: 0.5 mi NE of TonE L Apt
2:10:40 PM INCOMING CALL 7965 Matthew C. 9286 Casey A. 1.4 Tower 58: 0.5 mi NE of TonE L Apt
2:27:55 PM INCOMING TEXT 5132 Lee A. (Cell) 9286 Casey A. Tower 58: 0.5 mi NE of TonE L Apt
2:58:17 PM OUTGOING TEXT 9286 Casey A. 7965 Matthew C. Tower 48: 0.5 mi SE of JB Park, 2.5 mi E of Amscot, 2 mi SW of Tony R Home, 2 mi SW of JG
2:58:42 PM OUTGOING CALL 9286 Casey A. 9286 Casey A. 0.3 Tower 48: 0.5 mi SE of JB Park, 2.5 mi E of Amscot, 2 mi SW of Tony R Home, 2 mi SW of JG
2:59:06 PM INCOMING TEXT 9286 Casey A. Tower 48: 0.5 mi SE of JB Park, 2.5 mi E of Amscot, 2 mi SW of Tony R Home, 2 mi SW of JG
3:07:23 PM INCOMING TEXT 7965 Matthew C. 9286 Casey A. Tower 56: 1.5 mi E of TonE L, 1 mi NW of JB Park
4:20:20 PM OUTGOING CALL 9286 Casey A. 0 Lexus Dlrshp 2.1 Tower 46: 0.5 mi W of Amscot, 2 mi S of TonE L
4:23:10 PM OUTGOING CALL 9286 Casey A. 9214 Amy H. 3.6 Tower 58: 0.5 mi NE of TonE L Apt
4:52:42 PM INCOMING TEXT 1187 Sean H. 9286 Casey A. Tower 57: 0.5 mi NW of TonE L Apt
4:52:48 PM INCOMING TEXT 1187 Sean H. 9286 Casey A. Tower 57: 0.5 mi NW of TonE L Apt
4:54:11 PM OUTGOING TEXT 9286 Casey A. 1187 Sean H. Tower 57: 0.5 mi NW of TonE L Apt
5:45:39 PM INCOMING TEXT 11 Number text: '11' 9286 Casey A. Tower 38: 1 mi W of Fusion & 1 mi SW of Waterford Ale House
9:02:02 PM INCOMING TEXT 5113 Number text: '5113' 9286 Casey A. Tower 46: 0.5 mi W of Amscot, 2 mi S of TonE L
9:13:19 PM OUTGOING CALL 9286 Casey A. 4909 Anthony Home 5.5 Tower 57: 0.5 mi NW of TonE L Apt
9:19:03 PM OUTGOING CALL 9286 Casey A. 9286 Casey A. 0.3 Tower 57: 0.5 mi NW of TonE L Apt
9:19:22 PM INCOMING TEXT 9286 Casey A. Tower 57: 0.5 mi NW of TonE L Apt
9:35:31 PM OUTGOING CALL 9286 Casey A. 7686 Casey Voicemail 0.1 No Long/Lat Association
9:35:31 PM INCOMING CALL 4511 Mark H. 9286 Casey A. 0.1 No Long/Lat Association
10:38:54 PM INCOMING TEXT 7722 Number text: '7722' 9286 Casey A. Tower 57: 0.5 mi NW of TonE L Apt


Another thing that someone local could help with. The night of Amy’s accident should have some record of incident with the police department. I do not know how Florida works it but from Amy’s text messages to Casey it sound like the car was towed from the scene. This report would give them name of what towing company was used also. Would there be a report in the paper or a report that is public record on file at the police station that information could be taken from? I do not think she received a ticket since that was not mentioned in those texts. Is there some way to find out what type of car it was and any vehicle ID number that could be run through car fax?

Just my thoughts on this.

shadow of my mind said:

On of the other big questions is the visit to Cranes Apartment and how long that process took. I would also love to know if because Casey did not have her ID and she could not view the apartment was she left to wonder around the apartment complex on her own, left in a office to wait for Matt C. & Tony to come back or just how that would be handled. It would also give us a clue as to whether Matt C. would have had any way of seeing what vehicle they would have come in.

I just can’t help but wonder if Casey had realized that there is a problem; Amy is coming to Tony’s apartment about her car and Casey has to move the body then why the visit to Cranes Apartments in the middle of what has just become a major problem day. This visit under the guise of looking at an apartment had to be for a reason. I originally had theorized that Casey wanted to get Tony to sign a lease on an apartment to insure that Tony would be returning to Florida from NY after his trip home because he was now locked into an apartment lease. Casey was going to use Matt C for a little extra friendly persuasion from an old friend to make sure he would sign on the dotted line but when Matt called Casey back about taking the apartment she seemed to blow him off and was not the least interested so I no longer think that was the reason she went there. Not if she found herself with having to move Caylee’s body on this day. It just does not make any sense to add apartment hunting right smack in the middle of a ‘crisis’. Why? What would going to Cranes Landing Apartments with Tony benefit her on that day?

Click to expand...

My thoughts about when the Crane's Landing visit took place and how it went down can be found here.

Why did they do it that day? Probably because Tony had been mentioning for a while he'd like to move and KC had mentioned her connection to Matt. Then on this day when Tony gets home from school early in the afternoon he says "why don't we try and see one of those apartments - they are only five minutes away."

KC, already knowing she has a body problem, but wanting to act like everything is normal says "sure, let me get in touch with Matt." She pings Matt and asks him how late he will be around and can they stop by late in the day. He says sure, he could do it as late as 5:00. That buys KC some time to deal with the body.

The time of the visit is my speculation. I tried contacting Matt to see if he would tell me when they were there. He politely declined.

I am guessing they drove there in Tony's jeep, because KC did not have her ID with her during the visit. It probably did not occur to her that she needed ID. So, while Matt took Tony for a look KC did what KC does in her spare time. She used the phone.

While I am not big fan of the theory that the body was in KC's car, then Amy's, then Oviedo, then Tony's Jeep, then KC's car, then wherever (it is complicated and I believe in simple), I will say KC not using her car to go to Crane's Landing and then to Chris S. - both after leaving the body somewhere - is quite telling, IMO. I think that for a brief period KC could not mentally make herself get in that car after decomposition fluids leaked in the trunk while the body was being moved.

I think that by the 20th KC already moved the body for the last time. I think when she went to the barn on the 19th, she knew where she was taking it. I don't think she went far, I don't think she put her in a trash bin or dumpster, I do think she did the easiest thing and quickest, which would be in my mind a lake or body of water. I also so thought about how KC took pictures of everything, every event, could she have had a picture already of this place or did she take a pic? Just for her memories? Jut throwing that out there. But I agree she didn't want to get back in that car again on the 20th.

Bern said:

I think that by the 20th KC already moved the body for the last time. I think when she went to the barn on the 19th, she knew where she was taking it. I don't think she went far, I don't think she put her in a trash bin or dumpster, I do think she did the easiest thing and quickest, which would be in my mind a lake or body of water. I also so thought about how KC took pictures of everything, every event, could she have had a picture already of this place or did she take a pic? Just for her memories? Jut throwing that out there. But I agree she didn't want to get back in that car again on the 20th.

Click to expand...

...not wanting to use the Pontiac could be as simple as it reeking of decomp.

I defn agree on Casey's m.o. as quickest & easiest.

However, IMHO, Casey's body shuffle 6/19 wasn't well-planned. I'm still workin' with the body havin' been stored in Amy's car ~6/18-6/19, and the 6/19 xfer into the Pontiac was driven by Amy's notice that day of coming for the car. Casey collected the trash from the apartment into a large trash bag, then, hurriedly emptied the small trash bags into the Pontiac trunk (pizza box, etc. incl.) giving her the large trash bag to place the duffled body into after noting leakage of decomp into Amy's car. She drove to JBPark considering a disposal there, then, deciding against it, drove to & from Oviedo to xfer the body into another container. The body may've been left @ Oviedo and picked up later...or dropped off somewhere else...on the way back to Tony's apt. to get the Jeep, then drive to Chris'.

Casey clearly turned the phone off and spent time w/ Chris to establish an alibi for herself.

JWG has mused about Casey returning to the body just before twilight, IIRC. I need to go back and look @ his timeline.

Shadow - from the Oviedo house to Dean Rd & University using 426 and Dean road for travel took me 12 minutes on a Friday at noon. Longest delay was a 4 minute traffic light at Chapman Rd.