Forensic Astrology - Haliegh Cummings #3

To any of y'all -

-in light of forensic astrology, and/or general understanding for those of us NOT gifted in this ability (which would be me!)-

How vital is time of birth info, with relationship to 'minutes', NOT hours? I can grasp how hours would throw off the validity of info in a chart (such as trying to locate someone and though you have the right state, you are on the wrong road?); can information be gleaned if the birth time is off by a few minutes?

One other question (if I may)... Hypothetically speaking, if someone was born 'near' either sunrise or sunset, would that be a case where knowing the birth time, to the minute is MORE important than, say 'in the middle of the day' ? Or is it a case that, regardless of WHAT time, the info gathered/ credibility rises in direct proportion to the closest accurate birth time?

Not sure if any of that made sense; I'm fighting a cold and brain feels fuzzier than normal! Thanks all!

-Mish

Minutes really do matter, more than most of us would like to think.

This is why I encourage people not to ask their mothers, who were in labor, and apt to be distracted by the task at hand.

The best way is to write to the location (whatever they call the bureau of birth registrations) where you were born, and ask specifically for the part of your Birth Certificate that shows all the detailed info. This is sometimes called the "long form". Let them know you want a registered time of birth, by the attending physician or nurse/midwife.

Once you have that in hand, you can get an accurate birth chart. Without the minute of birth, half of the chart information is just not accurate or reliable. You will still have the plantary aspects, but you won't know your Ascendant or Midheaven, which are determined by the minute and place you are born.

Each of us is a unique individual. Even twins are not born at the exact same minute, and will have similar but slightly different charts, depending on the midpoints to their ascendants and midheavens.

OT/

Just checking in with Haleighs Astrology thread. I was hoping for some news on the accuracy of birth times, but i know it can often times be a long process. I pray that we will be able to obtain this information, as to see what Haleighs charts are showing us. I know that the Astro's will still be working on them, regardless. Thank-you again for all of your hard work.

Sincerely
Robin

ETA: I have made a pest out of myself on several Haleigh threads pleading for EXACT verifiable times. I am praying that one of the locals see's it and are able to help obtain it.

housemouse- please let me know if my questions and comments are too much, sometimes to eager to learn and help, and i am a Taurus after all. A big thank you to all of our wonderful Astrologers that donate their time to help these missing people.:blowkiss:

Have you checked grandmas chart? one time she had drove by then next story is she dropped off clothes. just a thought.

Where the heck has Soulscape been? Miss her posts!

Not sure what Soulscape is up to, but I do know she has a job,and a boss. She may not be posting during the day for this reason.

Also, please understand that most of us astrologers have real lives and responsibilities to others. Sometimes these interfere with being able to post frequently.

And, I know that I need to take time off every once in awhile to do something completely different. Like, knit a sweater or pair of socks, stitch some counted thread embroidery samplers, sew some new clothes for spring and summer, bake bread, get the garden started, piece a few quilt blocks, etc.

Mish said:

How vital is time of birth info, with relationship to 'minutes', NOT hours? I can grasp how hours would throw off the validity of info in a chart (such as trying to locate someone and though you have the right state, you are on the wrong road?); can information be gleaned if the birth time is off by a few minutes?

One other question (if I may)... Hypothetically speaking, if someone was born 'near' either sunrise or sunset, would that be a case where knowing the birth time, to the minute is MORE important than, say 'in the middle of the day' ? Or is it a case that, regardless of WHAT time, the info gathered/ credibility rises in direct proportion to the closest accurate birth time?

-Mish

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Mish, as housemouse said, exact birth time is of the utmost importance, no matter which part of the day someone was born, sunrise, sunset, high noon, whatever.

Those little minutes can changed a chart from straight-forward with no interceptions to one with intercepted signs in the some of the houses (if one isn't using equal houses). I've always wished my mother had hurried up and pushed harder just FIVE minutes sooner. If she had, I wouldn't have a chart with intercepted signs. If I had been born a mere five minutes earlier, I might actually have been smarter, prettier, more buxom with slender hips, long gorgeous legs and talent galore. (a gal can dream, right?)

Also, a few minutes can change the vital angles. Also, since the moon moves rather quickly, you definitely want its exact position so its aspects to other planets are charted accurately. Let's not forgot those important house cusps!

In cases where the time is unknown, some astrologers place sunrise on the ascendant, as though the person were born at sunrise, because it shows the influence of the day, which can be helpful when one doesn't have an accurate birth time. However, an exact birth time and exact place of birth is the only sure thing, and sometimes, even those official birth times are off.

Yes, you are correct, without this information, it is like being in the correct state but on the wrong road. Too much room for error.

housemouse said:

Not sure what Soulscape is up to, but I do know she has a job,and a boss. She may not be posting during the day for this reason.

Also, please understand that most of us astrologers have real lives and responsibilities to others. Sometimes these interfere with being able to post frequently.

And, I know that I need to take time off every once in awhile to do something completely different. Like, knit a sweater or pair of socks, stitch some counted thread embroidery samplers, sew some new clothes for spring and summer, bake bread, get the garden started, piece a few quilt blocks, etc.

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A job!!!!! Just kidding. I'm glad she has one in these uncertain times.

Another thing about taking a break, it clears the head. Sometimes being away helps one to see things more clearly. Like a break from the office, the job, the factory, or whatever, a break from astrology can refresh the mind. After a short break, one can jump back in and see a whole lot more than was seen just weeks prior. Days off, coffee breaks, lunch hours all fit into this category.

I encourage breaks, because they are refreshing.


Since there is a lull in the information on Haleigh, you may want to view the video of the inside of her mobile home. You can see the lay of the home plus the bedroom here, something I've always been puzzled by:

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/amberalerts/default.aspx

It could be an astrological help, or someone may get vibes from watching it.

I just found this section of the boards. I'm not sure I really understand what all you are doing, but it sounds fascinating.

How accurate are the charts that you do?

Tichad3 said:

I just found this section of the boards. I'm not sure I really understand what all you are doing, but it sounds fascinating.

How accurate are the charts that you do?

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If we are fortunate enough to have good, verified birth times (to the minute) and places, we can be very accurate.

But, often we do not have these. All we have is the day, and this leaves out the very important personal points. That is, we have no Moon position, no Ascendant and Midheaven.

Our work with Caylee Anthony was much better, because we had a good birth time for her. With Haleigh, we don't have this, so have only half of the info we need.

Just so you know, serious astrologers want to see a "long-form" birth certificate, where the attending medical folks write down the time of birth. Mom's memory is nice, but can be off, because of the stress of labor.

My mom was sure I was born right after dinner, but the long form says differently. I was born at 10:45 PM, according to the attending physician, and that wasn't exactly right after dinner, but a few hours later!

I'm hearing alarm bells from the victim's Venus progressed to 0:39 Virgo whereas Uranus has regressed to 0:54 Pisces, especially because found in H. 1 and 7. Progressed Virgo Mercury has come to the same degree of the lunar node. Sun and Jupiter are now both 29°. Although her Sun and the node were at the same degree for her birth, now Venus is square her progressed midheaven. Haleigh was born with many protections in place including the important Moon - Sun harmony but she has a band of menacing agents, quite powerful too. She now has progressed Moon under the shadow of Saturn, a heavy influence for a young child.

Tuba said:

I'm hearing alarm bells from the victim's Venus progressed to 0:39 Virgo whereas Uranus has regressed to 0:54 Pisces, especially because found in H. 1 and 7. Progressed Virgo Mercury has come to the same degree of the lunar node. Sun and Jupiter are now both 29°. Although her Sun and the node were at the same degree for her birth, now Venus is square her progressed midheaven. Haleigh was born with many protections in place including the important Moon - Sun harmony but she has a band of menacing agents, quite powerful too. She now has progressed Moon under the shadow of Saturn, a heavy influence for a young child.

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Please explain... I have read this several times, and just dont get it. I am so sorry, I really am trying to understand, I have great intrest in this!:bang:

static said:

Where the heck has Soulscape been? Miss her posts!

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housemouse said:

Not sure what Soulscape is up to, but I do know she has a job,and a boss. She may not be posting during the day for this reason.

Also, please understand that most of us astrologers have real lives and responsibilities to others. Sometimes these interfere with being able to post frequently.

...

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aksleuth said:

A job!!!!! Just kidding. I'm glad she has one in these uncertain times.

...

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Hello All,

Sorry I've been AWOL, LOL. It's been a hectic week to say the least. Additionally, I think all of us Astros have been finding this case frustrating, perplexing and energy draining. We've pointed out repeatedly, without timed charts we are severely hampered. There is great potential to "misread" when the charts are "off." We have to be careful.

That said, over the past few days, I've been studying Haleigh's Sunrise natal in comparison to the 6:49 - 6:50 am chart provided by Anna FL, and comparing both against (possibly) the only VERIFIABLE timed chart we have: the 911 Call to LE.

The differences between Haleigh's Sunrise natal vs the 6:49 - 6:50 am chart are subtle, but tonight I was impulsed to look at the charts through a different lens, so to speak... It turned out to be a complicated project and I've got a ways to go before I'm ready to post, but I hope to get it to you sometime tomorrow.

In the meantime, since the Thread is running slow, you may want to review previous discussions of the 911 Call charts. I believe FifthEssence has most if not all of the links in Post #1 of this Thread.

I keep thinking, this 911 Call chart is the key, and I for one, feel obligated to give it more study...

Thanks,
Soulscape

butterfly, no interpretation was given, just a record of the new location of her birth planets. If you were born with the Moon at 25°II, by the time you were a year old, that Moon would have progressed into Cancer. That's all I was doing, just laying out the new placements for Haleigh, where her planets are now with the advance of time. The Venus - Uranus opposition means a sudden rupture in relations with the people she cares about and who love her.

From the time of the disappearance, we have made much of the fact that transiting Saturn was on Haleigh's Mercury, 21 Virgo. I identify this Mercury with Misty because Mercury in Virgo is a caretaker and also, Saturn does rule the House in Haleigh's chart that is babysitting. Virgo in the natural wheel of the zodiac, Capricorn in Haleigh's particular case. So there was a problem with Misty's care at the disappearance. Saturn brings problems, denies, rejects, causes lack and want, deprives. Uranus by transit aggravated forbidding Saturn because directly opposed.

By progression, Mercury has arrived at 24:57 Virgo. This = Node of the Moon degree and means tragedy, fatality or casualty. It is happening in the House of the neck, House 2. Look at her chart, posted above by Kaitland. You will see Mercury in the Second House. In the natural wheel of the zodiac, what Sign comes second? Taurus of the neck. The Node of the Moon is also in Taurus, again, the neck. Casualty to the neck is warned.

Venus rules Taurus, the neck. Is Venus under threat? Yes, that is how we began in paragraph one here. Venus is opposed Uranus. Lastly, her natal Venus is square the new position of the Midheaven. Midheaven has progressed from 17° Taurus to 23° Taurus. Natal Venus is 23:47 Leo.

thanks tuba ,i couldnt understand post#172 either and expect i never will understand anyone's post or charts ,im mentality challenged when it comes to learning anymore ,so really appreciate you all explaining the jargon and post when you can.

Okay thank you Tuba. I am so sorry for all the questions, thanks for being so kind in your responces.

Dihan said:

thanks tuba ,i couldnt understand post#172 either and expect i never will understand anyone's post or charts ,im mentality challenged when it comes to learning anymore ,so really appreciate you all explaining the jargon and post when you can.

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LMAO!!!!!!!!!! I know how you feel, it doesn't seem like I am ever going to understand it...I am steadily trying though, but I have yet to have a light bulb moment, heck I havent even had a twinkle. This is as hard to learn to me as algebra, LOL

OT/
Thanks Soulscape,

Will go and study the 911 chart, not that i'll 'get it'.lol, Please accept my personal thanks for everything you are doing for Haleigh. This one has affected all of us harshly, i believe.

Thanks tuba :blowkiss:

Everyone working to find Haleigh :blowkiss:

ETA: butterfly, i struggle to understand the charts as well, my suggestion would be to keep studying when you have time. Little by little it makes sense.
Also, on the main Astro page there is a thread with links and books, i have found VERY helpful, check it out.

march 8th is supposed to be in here as a possible new leads or knowledge ? i think i may of read in to it more where can i find this they said it was in this thread help please if someone can