Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #5

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Likely because there is no ZFG, as it partains to the Caylee abduction/missing case (and now found sadly not alive). The ZFG that KC mentions is not real. Not a real person. JMO..and like a thousand other peoples opinion. There was no Zanny the Nanny. There was only KC the liar.
 
My only question on the LE searches for Zenaida that produced only this one person, why didn't the ZFG that received a ticket in like April or May of the same year pop up on their computer? That ticket shows up in online searches of police files and yet they never mention that person? Supposedly she was the right age etc--and it may very well be a Casey alter ego, but why isn't it mentioned?

I believe that the LE does possess hard evidence that KC posed as ZFG and that evidence will be disclosed within a few months, if not sooner. Either to disprove or prove my theory on this. Also think that CA knew it. Question for me is when.
 
I believe that the LE does possess hard evidence that KC posed as ZFG and that evidence will be disclosed within a few months, if not sooner. Either to disprove or prove my theory on this. Also think that CA knew it. Question for me is when.

I agree on the "when" part. If that fake drivers license was what they took from her wallet on the night they arrested her, they could have confronted her with it and put a stop to all the Zanny rumors by day 2. Makes you wonder why they didn't.
 
I agree on the "when" part. If that fake drivers license was what they took from her wallet on the night they arrested her, they could have confronted her with it and put a stop to all the Zanny rumors by day 2. Makes you wonder why they didn't.


So she could dig a deeper hole? :bang:
 
I agree on the "when" part. If that fake drivers license was what they took from her wallet on the night they arrested her, they could have confronted her with it and put a stop to all the Zanny rumors by day 2. Makes you wonder why they didn't.

Their only task at that specific time period was to find Caylee. They soon learned of KC's lies. LE also needed to time to check and double check any false ID as well as any computer evidence. This along with other evidence we haven't seen, is going to be released.

So she could dig a deeper hole? :bang:

Yes, and her lies were like a back-hoe digging herself deeper and deeper.
 
I agree on the "when" part. If that fake drivers license was what they took from her wallet on the night they arrested her, they could have confronted her with it and put a stop to all the Zanny rumors by day 2. Makes you wonder why they didn't.

Maybe part of an ongoin investigation. Maybe there is wayyyyyy more to it.. Hope we find out.
 
The "9 -1" time frame by KC defies logic!!
Respectfully snipped 1) If someone can not remember the exact minute she last laid eyes on her child,( when handed off to a care giver who theoretically then kidnaps her) it simply leaves us dumbfounded. That is not something you casually put into a 4 hr time frame!

2) No caregiver ever operates on such a bizarre schedule, unless of course they are a "real nanny" who actually lives in your home and cares for your child

3) I speculate that those times just popped into her head because of Tony's schedule ( since she borrows episodes & people from the lives of others she knows.
 
Last night I was thinking about the 9-1 timeframe KC gave as to when she dropped Caylee off at Sawgrass. I've always been curious about this and wonder why she allowed a 4-hour margin of error for herself.

The only possibility I've come up with is that she may have been afraid to give a specific time because someone may come forward later and state that KC was seen earlier than the time she gave without Caylee. So that if she said she dropped Caylee off at 11am or 12pm someone would later say that she didn't have Caylee at 9 or 10 am.

Am I making sense? I feel that KC thought that there was the possibility that someone could testify that she wasn't seen with Caylee at all between 9-1 on the 16th. In case this happened, she included the entire timeframe to allow for that.

If this is why she said "between 9am-1pm" then where was she that someone may have seen her without Caylee? Was it GA that she was afraid would contradict her story or someone else? If she was at home all morning then GA is the only one she would be worried about. Or, did she go somewhere else during these hours where someone may have seen her without Caylee?

Obviously, this only applies if one thinks that Caylee died prior to 9am on the 16th. It's just more of the same stuff that is questionable about that morning that leads me to think Caylee died prior to the afternoon of the 16th. If Caylee was still alive when KC returned home after GA left for work wouldn't she be afraid someone (neighbor, passerby) would later say that Caylee was with KC (not the nanny) after 1pm that afternoon? Stating that she dropped her off by 1pm and then showing up later at the house with Caylee would be a huge red flag to LE. Apparently, KC wasn't concerned about this. Did she know that no one could have possibly seen Caylee after 1pm? Is this because she pulled into the garage when she came back or because Caylee really wasn't with her?

Maybe I'm making too much of this statement. LE didn't seem concerned about pinning her down to a more specific time. I can't help but wonder about it. Most people would know when they dropped their child off and never saw her again. To me, this statement by KC was very self serving and I'll always wonder what purpose it served.

Excellent Post! ITA! She can't remember the intimate details of the last day she ever saw her daughter alive!? Can't remember if she went to work in the morning for a full days shift, or after lunch, for a short afternoon shift??? Oh yeah, she didn't really go to work, did she.

I'm of the opinion that Caylee was dead prior to 9:00 am. June 16th. I like your post and your reasoning!
 
I've been reconsidering some of my assumptions regarding Caylee's death, trying to apply Occam's Razor: “Of several acceptable explanations for a phenomenon, the simplest is preferable.”

Let's list some information we think we know and what might be the corresponding "simplest explanation":


  • KC and Cindy allegedly had a very intense fight on the evening of the 15th, and Cindy may have put her hands on KCs throat. :argue: Based on other eyewitness accounts of KC / Cindy fights, this would have been highly unusual on Cindy's part, as she was not observed as to even raising her voice or confronting KC in the past, in public.
  • Caylee's body was found without shoes. This indicates to me that she died during normal sleep time, possibly while napping. :mad:
  • Caylee was not wearing the same clothes she wore at Mt. Dora, neither was she wearing pajamas. The simplest explanation could be, then, that she died while napping on June 16. However, I cannot rule out the possibility that Caylee wore different clothes after she and Cindy went swimming late afternoon on the 15th, and that Caylee went to sleep in those clothes. This is a common occurrence with my daughter - she often insists on wearing her clothes to bed, and it is not a battle I choose to fight.
  • Caylee was not wearing the same clothes described by George (and later copied by KC in an effort to make her story consistent with someone else's). The simplest explanation is, given 5 weeks had passed, George was recalling the last time he saw both Caylee and KC together for any significant period of time.
  • George saw Caylee and KC leave sometime around 1PM. Again, IMHO, he was recalling the last time he interacted with both to any degree of significance. No doubt he saw one or the other after that, but he was recalling the last time he saw them together.
  • Caylee's body was found with a Winnie the Pooh blanket. The simplest explanation is that she was with the blanket when she died, implying that she was sleeping.
  • Caylee's body was found double-bagged in garbage bags which were then placed in a laundry bag. :furious: I believe this bagging had to be done at the same time the bags were taken from the Anthony home. In other words, I do not believe the bags were taken from the home on one day with KC saying to herself "I might need these at a later time." She took them to "solve" an immediate problem.
  • Duct tape (a "garage item") had been placed over the mouth. A heart sticker (an "inside item") was placed on the tape.
  • The trunk stain indicated a body with 90 accumulated degree days worth of decomposition had been in the trunk. While perhaps not exactly accurate, I am inclined to believe that it is accurate within +/- 10%.
So how do I personally string all of these together to produce what I believe to be the simplest explanation? :waitasec:

First, I think the simplest explanation of George's recollection is he was remember event's of Friday, June 13. This was a Fusian Friday, and both Caylee and KC left the Anthony home around 12:10 PM. No doubt KC laid the groundwork for having an excuse to stay out late by telling George she would be out late working and would spend the night with the Nanny. :rolleyes: Whatever plans KC thought she had for Caylee never materialized, and it appears she decided to do a spur-of-the-moment drop-off of Caylee with Cindy at Gentiva around 5:25 that afternoon. George worked that evening, so a returning Caylee being put to bed by Cindy would not have registered as a significant event.

From that point forward George, IMHO, does not see Caylee and KC together, but does see one without the other.

Now, let's fast-forward to Father's Day. After returning from Mt. Dora, Cindy and Caylee go for a swim. I think it is very likely Caylee ended up in a fresh set of clothes after that swim. KC strolls in around 7:30PM, and as we have discussed and debated throughout this board, there are a lot of reasons why Cindy would be motivated to "talk to" KC that evening. KC seems rather pre-occupied with texting from 7:30 to 9:00PM, and it is quite possible KC just sat with Caylee in KC's room while she fell asleep in her clothes, more or less ignoring Caylee. Between 9 and 10PM there are several breaks in texting activity that allow for an evolving argument, including a 39-minute break from just before 9:30 to just after 10PM.

I don't think the "heated" argument had to last long...5 or 10 minutes, maybe . 10 minutes is a long time for a very heated argument when you think of it, and as I said, there were other gaps in texting prior to 9:30 that would allow for escalating conversations leading up to the truly heated portion.

So...let's say the argument ends around 9:45 and an extremely angry KC storms into her room. :furious: In the heat of the moment, she smother's Caylee.

A 9:45 to 10:00PM time of death on the 15th allows for an afternoon bagging on the 18th, using the forensic determination that the trunk stain was due to 90 accumulated degree-days worth of decomposition, plus or minus 10%.

KC spends the next several hours engaged in "pillow talk" with Tony, probably as both a distraction for what just happened as well as an attempt to firmly set the hook :trout: for her "moving in" with him.

During the morning of the 16th, neither George or Cindy see Caylee. Cindy likely left for work before KC came out of the room, and it is possible George was either outside doing yard work or even out running errands. In any event, it would have registered as a normal morning - KC on the computer while Caylee "sleeps in".

During that morning (between 9AM and 1PM??) KC creates the "zenaida" myspace page. :eek:nline:

KC tosses the body in the trunk around 4 PM on the 16th and heads to Tony's.

On the 17th KC backs into the garage but spends most of the time either downloading or copying files to the laptop. :eek:nline:

On the 18th KC again backs the car into the garage. Upon opening the trunk she notices the stain and makes an attempt to stem the flow by using duct tape. :idea: She carries the body through the house and places it on the rug in the screened porch, creating a small stain on the rug. Seeing the body there in the daylight with the duct tape on the mouth might have horrified KC enough to prompt her to "dress it up" with the heart sticker.

She borrows a shovel from the neighbor, but eventually gives up on burying the body. As she returns the body to the trunk she notices the body is damp and dirty, and at that point grabs a couple of garbage bags and places the body in them. :bang:

The body stays in the trunk until the 20th, when KC decides there is just too much risk keeping it there. Perhaps fearful that the garbage bags will break open as she lifts them out of the trunk to dispose of them, she drives to her parents and backs into the garage a final time. This time she selects a sturdy canvas laundry bag and places the garbage bags in that.

A quick trip to Suburban and she discards the laundry bag. :whistle:
 
I like this *keep it simple* approach. Plausable, sensible, and *likely*

I can (sadly) see this visual playing out as if I were watching a youtube clip.


I've been reconsidering some of my assumptions regarding Caylee's death, trying to apply Occam's Razor: “Of several acceptable explanations for a phenomenon, the simplest is preferable.”

Let's list some information we think we know and what might be the corresponding "simplest explanation":


  • KC and Cindy allegedly had a very intense fight on the evening of the 15th, and Cindy may have put her hands on KCs throat. :argue: Based on other eyewitness accounts of KC / Cindy fights, this would have been highly unusual on Cindy's part, as she was not observed as to even raising her voice or confronting KC in the past, in public.
  • Caylee's body was found without shoes. This indicates to me that she died during normal sleep time, possibly while napping. :mad:
  • Caylee was not wearing the same clothes she wore at Mt. Dora, neither was she wearing pajamas. The simplest explanation could be, then, that she died while napping on June 16. However, I cannot rule out the possibility that Caylee wore different clothes after she and Cindy went swimming late afternoon on the 15th, and that Caylee went to sleep in those clothes. This is a common occurrence with my daughter - she often insists on wearing her clothes to bed, and it is not a battle I choose to fight.
  • Caylee was not wearing the same clothes described by George (and later copied by KC in an effort to make her story consistent with someone else's). The simplest explanation is, given 5 weeks had passed, George was recalling the last time he saw both Caylee and KC together for any significant period of time.
  • George saw Caylee and KC leave sometime around 1PM. Again, IMHO, he was recalling the last time he interacted with both to any degree of significance. No doubt he saw one or the other after that, but he was recalling the last time he saw them together.
  • Caylee's body was found with a Winnie the Pooh blanket. The simplest explanation is that she was with the blanket when she died, implying that she was sleeping.
  • Caylee's body was found double-bagged in garbage bags which were then placed in a laundry bag. :furious: I believe this bagging had to be done at the same time the bags were taken from the Anthony home. In other words, I do not believe the bags were taken from the home on one day with KC saying to herself "I might need these at a later time." She took them to "solve" an immediate problem.
  • Duct tape (a "garage item") had been placed over the mouth. A heart sticker (an "inside item") was placed on the tape.
  • The trunk stain indicated a body with 90 accumulated degree days worth of decomposition had been in the trunk. While perhaps not exactly accurate, I am inclined to believe that it is accurate within +/- 10%.
So how do I personally string all of these together to produce what I believe to be the simplest explanation? :waitasec:

First, I think the simplest explanation of George's recollection is he was remember event's of Friday, June 13. This was a Fusian Friday, and both Caylee and KC left the Anthony home around 12:10 PM. No doubt KC laid the groundwork for having an excuse to stay out late by telling George she would be out late working and would spend the night with the Nanny. :rolleyes: Whatever plans KC thought she had for Caylee never materialized, and it appears she decided to do a spur-of-the-moment drop-off of Caylee with Cindy at Gentiva around 5:25 that afternoon. George worked that evening, so a returning Caylee being put to bed by Cindy would not have registered as a significant event.

From that point forward George, IMHO, does not see Caylee and KC together, but does see one without the other.

Now, let's fast-forward to Father's Day. After returning from Mt. Dora, Cindy and Caylee go for a swim. I think it is very likely Caylee ended up in a fresh set of clothes after that swim. KC strolls in around 7:30PM, and as we have discussed and debated throughout this board, there are a lot of reasons why Cindy would be motivated to "talk to" KC that evening. KC seems rather pre-occupied with texting from 7:30 to 9:00PM, and it is quite possible KC just sat with Caylee in KC's room while she fell asleep in her clothes, more or less ignoring Caylee. Between 9 and 10PM there are several breaks in texting activity that allow for an evolving argument, including a 39-minute break from just before 9:30 to just after 10PM.

I don't think the "heated" argument had to last long...5 or 10 minutes, maybe . 10 minutes is a long time for a very heated argument when you think of it, and as I said, there were other gaps in texting prior to 9:30 that would allow for escalating conversations leading up to the truly heated portion.

So...let's say the argument ends around 9:45 and an extremely angry KC storms into her room. :furious: In the heat of the moment, she smother's Caylee.

A 9:45 to 10:00PM time of death on the 15th allows for an afternoon bagging on the 18th, using the forensic determination that the trunk stain was due to 90 accumulated degree-days worth of decomposition, plus or minus 10%.

KC spends the next several hours engaged in "pillow talk" with Tony, probably as both a distraction for what just happened as well as an attempt to firmly set the hook :trout: for her "moving in" with him.

During the morning of the 16th, neither George or Cindy see Caylee. Cindy likely left for work before KC came out of the room, and it is possible George was either outside doing yard work or even out running errands. In any event, it would have registered as a normal morning - KC on the computer while Caylee "sleeps in".

During that morning (between 9AM and 1PM??) KC creates the "zenaida" myspace page. :eek:nline:

KC tosses the body in the trunk around 4 PM on the 16th and heads to Tony's.

On the 17th KC backs into the garage but spends most of the time either downloading or copying files to the laptop. :eek:nline:

On the 18th KC again backs the car into the garage. Upon opening the trunk she notices the stain and makes an attempt to stem the flow by using duct tape. :idea: She carries the body through the house and places it on the rug in the screened porch, creating a small stain on the rug. Seeing the body there in the daylight with the duct tape on the mouth might have horrified KC enough to prompt her to "dress it up" with the heart sticker.

She borrows a shovel from the neighbor, but eventually gives up on burying the body. As she returns the body to the trunk she notices the body is damp and dirty, and at that point grabs a couple of garbage bags and places the body in them. :bang:

The body stays in the trunk until the 20th, when KC decides there is just too much risk keeping it there. Perhaps fearful that the garbage bags will break open as she lifts them out of the trunk to dispose of them, she drives to her parents and backs into the garage a final time. This time she selects a sturdy canvas laundry bag and places the garbage bags in that.

A quick trip to Suburban and she discards the laundry bag. :whistle:
 
The "9 -1" timeframe by KC defies logic and has always been an indicator that it is just another one of her many fabrications. I've tried, since last year, to figure out why she
acts the way she does, says the things she says, and I keep coming back to the same conclusion: this whole thing was orchestrated.

Marina, you are definately on to something wondering why she gave such a wide time range. It could indicate more than just someone debunking her lie.

I don't know about everyone else, but I know exactly how long it takes me to get to work, and I know what time I have to be there (even though my schedule fluctuates).

Ugh, she just frustrates the snot out of me....

BBM

And you actually have a job to go to. This is someone who was only PRETENDING and she still couldn't give LE a decent time frame.
 
On the 18th KC again backs the car into the garage. Upon opening the trunk she notices the stain and makes an attempt to stem the flow by using duct tape. :idea: She carries the body through the house and places it on the rug in the screened porch, creating a small stain on the rug. Seeing the body there in the daylight with the duct tape on the mouth might have horrified KC enough to prompt her to "dress it up" with the heart sticker.

She borrows a shovel from the neighbor, but eventually gives up on burying the body. As she returns the body to the trunk she notices the body is damp and dirty, and at that point grabs a couple of garbage bags and places the body in them. :bang:

The body stays in the trunk until the 20th, when KC decides there is just too much risk keeping it there. Perhaps fearful that the garbage bags will break open as she lifts them out of the trunk to dispose of them, she drives to her parents and backs into the garage a final time. This time she selects a sturdy canvas laundry bag and places the garbage bags in that.

A quick trip to Suburban and she discards the laundry bag. :whistle:

Snipped for space..

I agree with most of your theory, except for her carrying the body.
On that day, the body had to be in pretty bad shape. Here's a snip from a website:
http://www.coronerstories.com/2005/06/02/“human-ecomposition”/

WARNING **VERY GROSS**
On average, external signs of decomposition begin to appear about 24 hours after death. The soft, moist tissue inside the body begins to break down faster than the more durable exterior surfaces of the skin. Consequently, escaping gases from inside the body often create a uniquely repulsive odor even before any external signs of decomposition are present. Moving the body to examine it or to remove it from a scene only increases the amount of the gas and smell. The best way to approximate the smell is to leave a sealed gallon of milk with a little milk in the bottom in direct sunlight. After two weeks have passed, remove the lid and insert nose.

As the smell becomes stronger, large areas of skin will begin to show signs of a blueish-green discoloration. This color usually starts to become visible around the abdominal region. This skin discoloration is usually accompanied by a “marbling�? of the skin that is deep purple in color. As blood vessels and superficial veins begin to break down, the blood diffuses into the soft tissue and looks similar to the vein pattern in a slab of marble.

After death, the digestive enzymes that were previously tasked with breaking down food particles become stagnant and begin to break down the lining of the gastrointestinal tract. The resulting gases from these chemical processes will eventually cause the body to bloat at about 36 hours after death. The abdomen becomes distended and areas of soft tissue around the genitalia and the eyelids will have a “swollen�? appearance. This swelling around the eyes is often mistaken as a sign of trauma by first responders.

A few days after death, signs of skin slippage will begin to appear. Outer layers of skin at the feet and hands will separate from underlying layers, which looks similar to a loose fitting rubber glove. Fingernails can easily be removed and areas of skin that appear to be intact may slide off when the body is handled for examination or movement. Sections of hair may also pull free if the follicles are adhered to another surface like carpet or bedding.


So, after reading that, can you picture her picking up the body? I can't. I think the shovel was used because she didn't want to touch the body but needed to get it into the bag. I think the stain was created when she moved the body into the bag. I think she hosed off the shovel before returning it and that caused the dogs to hit in the back yard. She may have even washed it; the neighbor said it looked as if it had not been used.
If the shovel didn't work for moving the body she may have gone into the house and gotten the blanket to make it easier to move her without actually having to touch the body.

If she didn't put the body in the bag right away, it would have been difficult to do until rigor mortis subsided. So, I think she either did it right away or waited a couple of days and did it then.
 
I've been reconsidering some of my assumptions regarding Caylee's death, trying to apply Occam's Razor: “Of several acceptable explanations for a phenomenon, the simplest is preferable.”

Let's list some information we think we know and what might be the corresponding "simplest explanation":
*snipped for space*

Did someone say, "fermentation"? Count me in! :)

Alot to digest here, JWG. You obviously invested some time & effort into putting the mash together. Needs to sit in the tun for awhile before lautering...IYKWIM.
 
Snipped for space..

I agree with most of your theory, except for her carrying the body.
On that day, the body had to be in pretty bad shape. Here's a snip from a website:
http://www.coronerstories.com/2005/06/02/“human-ecomposition”/

So, after reading that, can you picture her picking up the body? I can't. I think the shovel was used because she didn't want to touch the body but needed to get it into the bag. I think the stain was created when she moved the body into the bag. I think she hosed off the shovel before returning it and that caused the dogs to hit in the back yard. She may have even washed it; the neighbor said it looked as if it had not been used.
If the shovel didn't work for moving the body she may have gone into the house and gotten the blanket to make it easier to move her without actually having to touch the body.

If she didn't put the body in the bag right away, it would have been difficult to do until rigor mortis subsided. So, I think she either did it right away or waited a couple of days and did it then.

I hear what you are saying, Kenosha...

While we don't know yet if the seafoam green rug tested positive for decomp, it certainly was suspicious enough for LE to have it tested by the FBI. Add to that the fact cadaver dogs hit in the back yard in at least two locations, neither particularly close to a hose, and I am inclined to believe that she did actually move the body, and did so going through the house.

The act of moving the body probably caused KC a lot of unexpected problems with respect to fluids leaking and causing the various stains. I think this is what drove her to use duct tape, and then the garbage bags.
 
Boy, you guys are good! I just worry the defense is getting way too much info here. I wouldn't be surprised if they've hired someone just to read the board all day. :coffeeup:
 
Snipped So, after reading that, can you picture her picking up the body? I can't. I think the shovel was used because she didn't want to touch the body but needed to get it into the bag. I think the stain was created when she moved the body into the bag. I think she hosed off the shovel before returning it and that caused the dogs to hit in the back yard. She may have even washed it; the neighbor said it looked as if it had not been used.
If the shovel didn't work for moving the body she may have gone into the house and gotten the blanket to make it easier to move her without actually having to touch the body.

If she didn't put the body in the bag right away, it would have been difficult to do until rigor mortis subsided. So, I think she either did it right away or waited a couple of days and did it then.

I agree. Especially considering the extreme heat and humidity in FL. That tends to speed up decomposition immensely.
 
So, after reading that, can you picture her picking up the body? I can't. I think the shovel was used because she didn't want to touch the body but needed to get it into the bag. I think the stain was created when she moved the body into the bag. I think she hosed off the shovel before returning it and that caused the dogs to hit in the back yard. She may have even washed it; the neighbor said it looked as if it had not been used.
If the shovel didn't work for moving the body she may have gone into the house and gotten the blanket to make it easier to move her without actually having to touch the body.

If she didn't put the body in the bag right away, it would have been difficult to do until rigor mortis subsided. So, I think she either did it right away or waited a couple of days and did it then.

Snipped respectfully,

Ya know, after mulling this over earlier I can believe KC did at one time or another actually pick up Caylee. Telling her that she won't have to have a bitter life like she did, being raised by CA/GA. Telling her she was sorry and placing a heart sticker over the duct tape :furious:.

She had seen so many CSI episodes, she probably figured picking up Caylee couldn't be that difficult. Her adrenaline levels must have been off the charts, if only for a moment or two. She was in her 10 minute thought zone and simply did what she needed to do. Then off to Fuzion for some pole dancing and smooching with AL and acquaintances.

Nope, this wasn't a case of crazy coping. It was done with deliberate malice forethought and action.
 
...perhaps adding some hops to JWG's wort...

What was different about the morning of 6/16 that Casey didn't head off to Tony's around Noon or earlier like she had almost the entire week before? :waitasec:

Tuesday, 6/10:
· AM: Casey & Caylee left Ricardo’s sometime in the morning to pick up Tony and his Jeep @ Tom’s auto repair.

Wednesday, 6/11:
· ~9:40AM Casey (presume w/ Caylee) enroute from G&C’s to Tony’s apt.

Thursday, 6/12
· ~1:20PM Casey (presume w/ Caylee) enroute from G&C’s to Tony’s apt.

Friday, 6/13
· ~12:15PM Casey w/ Caylee enroute from G&C’s to Tony’s apt.

Tony wasn't in class on Monday, 6/16.

Some ongoing speculation that calls to "Lexus" are connected to Tony somehow. Long story behind this...so...nod to those that are in the camp of Lexus=Gentiva. ;) You know who you are :) OK?

Soooo...if you bear with the potential that the calls are to "Lexus" and Lexus=Tony...then consider that Monday, 6/16 is the FIRST time calls to "Lexus" appear in Casey's cell records that we have going back to 6/1. Is there a simple explanation that a connection exists between Casey not being in a hurry to get to Tony's that morning and the potential that Tony had something going on starting @ Lexus 6/16? We only have 4-pings from Tony during the daytime of 6/16 between 11:47AM-4:19PM. All four of these pings place him near his apartment. :confused:

IF Casey had pre-planned to drop Caylee w/ Cindy @ Gentiva on the afternoon of 6/16, then, why bother getting Caylee over to Tony's as she'd done the Friday before, 6/13, just to haul her over to Gentiva...too much effort if she wasn't going to have some Tony time??? Maybe?

Seems it may have played out that way on 6/12 when Tony was in class and Casey went scurrying home upon receiving Cindy's call that afternoon. Also on Friday w/ Casey dropping Caylee @ Gentiva ~5:23PM (decently supported speculation, IMHO). By Monday, 6/16, was hauling Caylee around just getting to be too much vs. just chillin' :chillpill: @ G&C's until Tony got finished at Lexus?

Per Tony the 6/15 communication 'tween he & Casey was lovey-dovey stuff. Not a fight that would've given Casey cause to play hard-to-get Monday morning. :confused:

Was a cadaver on her hands the reason Casey chose not to fly the coop earlier Monday? Just thinkin' out loud.
 
...perhaps adding some hops to JWG's wort...

What was different about the morning of 6/16 that Casey didn't head off to Tony's around Noon or earlier like she had almost the entire week before? :waitasec:

Tuesday, 6/10:
· AM: Casey & Caylee left Ricardo’s sometime in the morning to pick up Tony and his Jeep @ Tom’s auto repair.

Wednesday, 6/11:
· ~9:40AM Casey (presume w/ Caylee) enroute from G&C’s to Tony’s apt.

Thursday, 6/12
· ~1:20PM Casey (presume w/ Caylee) enroute from G&C’s to Tony’s apt.

Friday, 6/13
· ~12:15PM Casey w/ Caylee enroute from G&C’s to Tony’s apt.

Tony wasn't in class on Monday, 6/16.

Some ongoing speculation that calls to "Lexus" are connected to Tony somehow. Long story behind this...so...nod to those that are in the camp of Lexus=Gentiva. ;) You know who you are :) OK?

Soooo...if you bear with the potential that the calls are to "Lexus" and Lexus=Tony...then consider that Monday, 6/16 is the FIRST time calls to "Lexus" appear in Casey's cell records that we have going back to 6/1. Is there a simple explanation that a connection exists between Casey not being in a hurry to get to Tony's that morning and the potential that Tony had something going on starting @ Lexus 6/16? We only have 4-pings from Tony during the daytime of 6/16 between 11:47AM-4:19PM. All four of these pings place him near his apartment. :confused:

IF Casey had pre-planned to drop Caylee w/ Cindy @ Gentiva on the afternoon of 6/16, then, why bother getting Caylee over to Tony's as she'd done the Friday before, 6/13, just to haul her over to Gentiva...too much effort if she wasn't going to have some Tony time??? Maybe?

Seems it may have played out that way on 6/12 when Tony was in class and Casey went scurrying home upon receiving Cindy's call that afternoon. Also on Friday w/ Casey dropping Caylee @ Gentiva ~5:23PM (decently supported speculation, IMHO). By Monday, 6/16, was hauling Caylee around just getting to be too much vs. just chillin' :chillpill: @ G&C's until Tony got finished at Lexus?

Per Tony the 6/15 communication 'tween he & Casey was lovey-dovey stuff. Not a fight that would've given Casey cause to play hard-to-get Monday morning. :confused:

Was a cadaver on her hands the reason Casey chose not to fly the coop earlier Monday? Just thinkin' out loud.

Thanks for posting what times KC would normally leave the house for TL's. I didn't know there was a "norm" for her departure.

Re:

Friday, 6/13
· ~12:15PM Casey w/ Caylee enroute from G&C’s to Tony’s apt.


This reminds me of LA's interview with Eric Edwards where LA states that GA went to work at noon and that he saw KC and Caylee leave at about a quarter til noon on June 16th. Maybe he was thinking of this day (6/13) when he told LA that. The time of KC and Caylee leaving on the 13th coincides with the story he gave LA about the 16th. Did he go to work at noon the previous week? I think if GA ever recalled the wrong day that he saw KC and Caylee leave it would have been in this story he gave LA.

The story he gave on GVS was, imo, a lie. He had, by that time, already thought about it enough to change the story he gave to LA. His GVS story was no mistaken recollection. I don't think he saw KC or Caylee on June 16th and knows that.

LA interview, July 29th, 2008
pgs 1484-85 beginning on line 22

EE and LA discussing LA's timeline, specifically, the morning of June 16th.

EE: Okay. Mom gets up in the morning, eight o'clock, to the best of your knowledge?
LA: Uh-hum
EE: And it looks like you're all over it.
LA: (Laughs.)
EE: Uhm, Mom leaves but never puts eye on your sister...
LA: Or neither.
EE: ...or the baby?
LA: Correct.
EE: Never hears them. Never sees them? Just goes...
LA: To...
EE: ...to work?
LA: To my knowledge, no.
EE: Okay. But Dad leaves around noon....
LA: Uh-hum (affirmative).
EE: ...to go to work and he believes, or is, is he, he's certain that he saw?
LA: You're going to have to corroborate with him. But he has offered that up.
EE: To you?
LA: Exactly, that...
EE: Okay.
LA: ...that he did see Casey and Caylee leaving at about a quarter to twelve.
 
Thanks for posting what times KC would normally leave the house for TL's. I didn't know there was a "norm" for her departure.

Re:

Friday, 6/13
· ~12:15PM Casey w/ Caylee enroute from G&C’s to Tony’s apt.

This reminds me of LA's interview with Eric Edwards where LA states that GA went to work at noon and that he saw KC and Caylee leave at about a quarter til noon on June 16th. Maybe he was thinking of this day (6/13) when he told LA that. The time of KC and Caylee leaving on the 13th coincides with the story he gave LA about the 16th. Did he go to work at noon the previous week? I think if GA ever recalled the wrong day that he saw KC and Caylee leave it would have been in this story he gave LA.

The story he gave on GVS was, imo, a lie. He had, by that time, already thought about it enough to change the story he gave to LA. His GVS story was no mistaken recollection. I don't think he saw KC or Caylee on June 16th and knows that.

LA interview, July 29th, 2008
pgs 1484-85 beginning on line 22

EE and LA discussing LA's timeline, specifically, the morning of June 16th.

EE: Okay. Mom gets up in the morning, eight o'clock, to the best of your knowledge?
LA: Uh-hum
EE: And it looks like you're all over it.
LA: (Laughs.)
EE: Uhm, Mom leaves but never puts eye on your sister...
LA: Or neither.
EE: ...or the baby?
LA: Correct.
EE: Never hears them. Never sees them? Just goes...
LA: To...
EE: ...to work?
LA: To my knowledge, no.
EE: Okay. But Dad leaves around noon....
LA: Uh-hum (affirmative).
EE: ...to go to work and he believes, or is, is he, he's certain that he saw?
LA: You're going to have to corroborate with him. But he has offered that up.
EE: To you?
LA: Exactly, that...
EE: Okay.
LA: ...that he did see Casey and Caylee leaving at about a quarter to twelve.

Hi, Marina. JWG also made a similar observation and offered the same speculation recently...great minds and all :)

I have to allow in the interview w/ Lee they're talking second-hand and make some clumsy fumbles w/ the details, but, essentially, I agree, George's account could just as easily be of 6/13.

Personally, I'm trying not to assess whether or not George was intentionally fibbing. I just consider the possiblity that he was confused in his memory at best...fibbing @ worst. Leaving it @ that.

A couple of notes...if nothing else just to kick the can down the street a little further. Allowing that I'm getting lazy :bang: and rarely looking up the source information anymore...FWIW...I will undoubtedly make errors relying on my memory, so I expect others to jump in and 'fix' the details here as appropriate.

1) IIRC, George didn't typically work on Fridays or Saturdays. Not sure if the released timecards show whether or not he worked 6/13, but, something that could be checked if someone is so inclined. That's one element that would support/detract from his account actually being that of 6/13.

2) Another poster (in the Accountability of Caylee thread maybe?) did some exploration of the 'sighting' attributed to George of family friends seeing Caylee in a shopping center ~6/12. I joined in on this exploration briefly and read some interesting ideas. For example, speculation that the shopping center sighting might've been 6/10 when Casey, Caylee & Tony picked up Tony's Jeep that day @ Tom's Auto. This speculation is interesting because it better fits the description of a shopping center 'near the Seminole County line" vs. the Mall of Millenia. Alternatively, although not near the Seminole County line the Casey, Caylee & Tony visit to Mall of Millenia 6/11 to hand out flyers is often cited as this family-friend sighting. A variant to this sighting is that there are other Cheesecake Factory locations besides the one @ MoM where perhaps the three-some could've eaten resulting in this sighting.

That's a mouthful...and I wrote that...to write this...

IIRC, the description of the family-friend sighting puts Caylee in basically the same outfit as what George described in his statement as what Caylee was last wearing (blue shorts, pink shirt, white-rimmed sunglasses) 6/16. In the exploration I mentioned above (2) another poster keenly observed that perhaps the media somehow morphed what we're told Caylee was wearing 6/12 with what George stated she was wearing 6/16....confusing I know :confused: I hope that makes sense.

...and I wrote that...to write this...

IF George (regardless of intent or lack thereof) gave a description of Caylee's outfit the day that they left that was the same day as this family-friend sighting (e.g. ~6/12) ...well then...we'd have a little something to package up as a sleuthed-out scenario, that would speculate George gave what he really saw, say, 6/12, as an account of what he saw 6/16. Similar ideas posted on the "6/9 vs. 6/16 Why the Discrepancy" thread in the Case Analysis forum..basically just change the date from 6/9 to 6/12. I did check the pings and noted Casey's travel time would've had her getting things in the Pontiac ~1PM and departing ~1:10-1:20PM on 6/12 FWIW.

Of late I've been given to George's phone calls back to the house Monday, 6/16, @ 3:03PM for ~12 seconds (same time as some of Casey's calls to the house when no one was home leading me to believe this is the length of their ansr machine outgoing message) and immediately following @ 3:04PM to Casey's cell - as evidence that George left Hopespring that afternoon and Casey was still there... :snooty: no Casey leaving-&-sneaking back in business going on.

Don't forget to factor in the 'plans for the evening' comment. JWG offered this as possibility of 6/13. I dunno. There's room for it despite the best speculation, IMHO, being a planned drop of Caylee @ Gentiva that afternoon ~5:23-5:38PM. We're totally hosed re: walk with Kristina C. IF we could nail that down...then we'd have room to say Casey expected to leave Caylee w/ Kristina...that's a missing piece of the puzzle.

For anyone that read this far...consider seeing your physician for treatment. ;)
 
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