CO CO - Roger Ellison, 17, Cedaredge, 10 Feb 1981 #1

Boyz_Mum said:

Hey CaptAmerica, not me, coldcase1 may know about the backyard or further information. Sorry I can't help you! :blowkiss:

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Thanks, this was my first post, I am still working this out.

CaptAmerica said:

Did you walk around the backyard? if so, can you describe what was there?

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To whose back yard do you refer, CaptAmerica? The last reference on this thread to a back yard that I see is in post #79 on page four:

This particular wall ran parallel to Pash's house and yard. If he had been digging in his back yard I think they would have noticed.

What was in the back yard that you wish to have described? What was there??

wfgodot said:

To whose back yard do you refer, CaptAmerica? The last reference on this thread to a back yard that I see is in post #79 on page four:

This particular wall ran parallel to Pash's house and yard. If he had been digging in his back yard I think they would have noticed.

What was in the back yard that you wish to have described? What was there??

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Hi wfgoddot; from earlier statements from Coldcase1's blog, I wanted to know more about Pash's digging in the off season? which might lead to a burial site.

CaptAmerica said:

Hi wfgoddot; from earlier statements from Coldcase1's blog, I wanted to know more about Pash's digging in the off season? which might lead to a burial site.

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You really need to contact Coldcase1 then, as she knows more about this case than anyone; "Peridot1" has not posted on WS since 02.23.

I suspect he was burying the murder weapon and other personal items of Rogers....:Justice:

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/e/ellison_roger.html

Roger's case is updated on charleyproject.

Ground-penetrating radar found anomalies under the concrete garage floor, and LE decided NOT to dig??????

Apparently Roger was acting strangely in the weeks before he disappeared. I'd be interested to know what Pash was acting like in the weeks AFTER. I assume his classes went on for the rest of the week...

February 10 was a Tuesday, when was "spring break" for the highshool? If it was in the next couple of weeks that would be very interesting. No one around the school grounds... Whats the temp in Cedar Edge in Feb? Could one keep a body in the trunk of a car until a burial site was found/ ready?

Danaya said:

Could have been the teacher who was holding Roger at gun point in the woods, maybe Roger threatened to report any inappropriate relations....

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Danaya, Excellent theory!
Adding to your theory, what IF P. had Roger go to his house after school and at nights not to turn in homework, but for other reasons ?..

Possibly threatening Roger that he would FAIL him if he didn't... putting Roger under terrific stress..
as R. didn't want to ruin his sports and college plans...

when R. threatens to tell, a plan is devised for R. to disappear....

Then the parents are told he was suicidal, in order to cover the crime, in case his body is found.....jmo

Hi Everyone, I'm coming out of lurking mode. Just started to read up on Roger and did a google search. I don't think it means much but noticed people were interested in John Pash and I found this. When you get to the web page do a Ctl F and put in Pash. Was wondering if he was in Arizona in 1977 or 1978. I know it's not much but thought I'd ad my 2 cents worth.

http://www.evesmaster.com/memoirs.html

Does anyone have the contacts available to get Roger's AP updated at NCMEC? Right now it's downright ancient, and even though he's no longer alive it could bring new coverage to the case.

I've been reading all of these posts & first, I HOPE they hurry up with the DNA...what in the world is taking so long??? I really think the UID is a great match on so many levels.

And a lot of things are striking me as odd, really.

What amandab said...I totally agree!!! If there were anomolies, then why weren't they investigated further?

And that Chief person who posted last year...how much more cryptic can you be??? Why say such tantalizing things and then disappear!?! I can understand that outward appearances can be deceiving, i.e. he was athletic, straight A's and all the rest, but was also a pothead. Well, that doesn't surprise me, really. I graduated in 79 from a high school in a suburb of Denver & knew lots of 'jocks' who smoked weed, though they pretended not to do such things. Is that what Chief meant?? Anyway...those posts are bothering me.


And the poachers...for shame. Cannot believe they didn't help the guy.

My head is metaphorically hitting the desk so much I'm getting a headache

coldcase1, et al...good work on everything! I really hope something comes of all your efforts soon!

I just finished reading Coldcase1's site. Wow , she has done an amazing job with the investigation. I couldn't add anything more except rumors. I think I will sit back and see her investigation unfold. Nothing would make me happier than to see this solved.

First, we need to make sure all accusations have been stated, and unfortunately you have missed a few:
1] that I was a communist agent, employed by Moscow, to use the educational system to destroy my students’ patriotism for the US;
2] that I was an atheist, in league with the Devil, to bring about the destruction of Christianity;
3] that my belief that America’s racial/ethnic minorities and gays should be accorded all the respect and rights as White Americans would “mongrelize” America’s culture and lead to the end of American civilization as we know it.
Interestingly, before I moved [for personal, familial, and professional reasons] I was invited to dinner by a very well respected Christian family. As we finished eating, the husband said he understood what I had had to endure. He did not apologize for those things [and I did not expect him to, nor ask him to], but said that he hoped that I would understand the community and not harbor any animosity. I have tried do this, and when thinking about Cedaredge, remember positive times. I would have to say that he and his family have been one of the few examples I have met of people who truly practice their faith. Please realize, this was the era of Reagan and I made the perfect villain. You have all jumped on the bandwagon. So for the moment, extinguish the torches, put down the pitchforks, and stifle the “storm the castle’ chant.

1] Roger’s height is listed as 6’. There is a skeleton found in Chaffee County of someone who is 5’6”. OK, let’s go over this--> 6’ vs 5’6”. And yet, we have a chorus of sleuthies demanding DNA tests to determine if it is Roger. Is it a common phenomenon for a skeleton to shrink half a foot? One last time people, 6’ vs 5’6”.
2] the poachers’ story. This one is very odd. There are supposedly 2 men carrying high-powered rifles who come upon a man with a shotgun, and another person who is bound. And yet they don’t do anything about it. Why? Because they are worried they will be charged with poaching? Give me a break. And one passes a lie detector test on his death bed [so melodramatic]? And of course we all know that lie detector tests are infallible. It should be very easy to get the names of the men involved if this is a true story. Still it doesn’t make sense. The other interesting thing is that the man is reported as holding a shotgun. There are 3 shell casings found with the skeleton. Are the shell casings for a shotgun, or a rifle? Big difference. By the way, I am a strong advocate for gun control, and have never owned, nor possessed, any type of firearm. This was not a good opinion to have in a community where gun ownership and hunting is both a personal choice and an economic factor.

Fourth, the infamous ‘house of secrets’ [so melodramatic]
1] the shuttered windows. They weren’t when we lived there. We did have a framed piece of stained glass hanging within the small window frame. Since the house has been altered, I’m not sure what it looks like anymore. But on the north side, there were 3 large windows. The front of the house [facing east] had a large picture window. The south side had a large picture window in the dining area and in the living room, and a smaller window by the fireplace. So quite a few large windows [we enjoyed the sunlight].
2] digging up the yard. Talk about a waste of time and money. The only time I ever did any digging was to replace or add rose bushes, and to create foundation holes for my childrens’ swingset in the backyard [which remained when we left]. By the way, Cedaredge is roughly 6000’ or so, and we had snow on the ground well into April. So the ground is not easily dug up. It can be done, but would take an extended amount of time unless one used machinery. As for anomalies under the concrete floor of the garage, I am not even sure where that is since we did not have a garage. We had to park our car on the street in front of the house. That also brings into question the idea that there was a driveway. Next to the rock wall was an overgrown access road to permit the owner of the lot behind our house access to it. The reason it was overgrown is because it was never used by anyone.
3] the teenager in a fetal position in the crawl space. I love this one because it really lacks logic. How in God’s name [yes, I do believe in God] do you look at an imprint in dirt and determine it is of a teenager and not an adult? Again, doesn’t make sense.

Fifth, more odd accusations which just don’t add up.
1] the only way I can describe this one is my having “encounter groups” in my home. This is a total fabrication. If I did permit such a thing, I would like to think I would have added some type of historical theme to it, such as requiring dress-up in Roman-styled togas and speaking Pig Latin.
2] that I was “the go to guy” for marijuana. Again, another story which is totally fabricated. And then to imply that the police covered it up because.... they benefited somehow? Do you really want to go there? I guess you do. Please realize that freedom of speech, or clever disclaimers at the bottom of one’s post, do not protect one from all liability. But then you have those clever user id’s and never have to worry about people knowing who you are. Anonymity is a shield for the irresponsible.

Sixth, refers to questions that should be asked, but haven’t been.
1] what was determined about reports that people saw Roger hitchhiking out of town that morning? Were these reports dismissed? In that regard, has anybody bothered to read the initial news articles concerning Rogers disappearance?
2] the alleged report that Roger was seen talking to 2 unidentified men the morning he disappeared. Was it inside the school building? Was it outside on school grounds? Was it some place else off school grounds? What time did this occur? Either way, the report that the men were unidentified would lead one to realize that these men were unknown to whoever made that report. Had I been one of those individuals, wouldn’t it be obvious that I would have been identified? However, I was in my classroom preparing to teach that day.
3] it is stated that Roger only had $3 in his wallet, and no additional clothes. This does seem odd for someone who is running away. You would think they would want to have as much money as possible, and some extra clothes. So it would initially seem that no such runaway plan was in effect. However a further understanding as to the type of bank account Roger had, and the bank’s policies regarding it may be necessary. Was it a checking or savings account. Since Roger was still a minor at the time, what was necessary in order for him to get the money? Would he have to write a check to somebody, and then ask for the money from them? Would a savings withdrawal require a second signature? Would it require parental notification?
4] the fact that Roger came to school that morning with his backpack full of books. It might be thought that he would need those books in every single class that day. Possible explanation, but not necessarily probable. As for my classes, I lectured everyday, and had them do book work in class sporadically. So why return all the books? Another possibility, and more probable, is that he knew he wouldn’t be needing them anymore, and wanted to return school property.
5] if we are going to focus on rumors, then we need to make sure we point out the initial rumors that went around. It was stated that Roger had either been kidnapped by a hippie religious cult for human sacrifice, or by a motorcycle gang that was reportedly in the area. Interestingly, it was also rumored a couple of years later that Roger had actually been found. This was supposedly achieved through a search of his social security number that found him living in Kansas and working in a gas station.

Seventh, comments by Chief79--> he acknowledges that “Mitch” was questioned, but he wasn’t. Why he wasn’t questioned is irrelevant at this point. But in knowing that he wasn’t, doesn’t mean he has no valuable information, especially in saying that there is a lot of misinformation. Does Chief79 have to explain anything to the sleuthies? No. It may be something that he doesn’t want to make public out of his regard for Roger. But he should go to the responsible law enforcement agency [Delta County Sheriffs] and provide such information. At that point, its relevance can be determined, and if deemed necessary, made public.
[Continued on another post]

Eighth, focuses on my time frame. What dictates that issue is the wrestling season. It was my second year as a coach and the first of our successful seasons. The team had won the League Championship, and had won the District Tournament the previous weekend [so I was in Grand Junction the weekend preceding Roger’s disappearance]. Because of the success of many of the wrestlers, six were to go to Denver for the State Tournament that next weekend. So not only did I teach a full day everyday, but also had the usual 2 hour wrestling practice after school every day. I did not get to leave school until at least 6 pm every night. And I left for Denver that Friday, driving the team, We did not return to Cedaredge until that Sunday. These factors would now necessitate an accomplice. I would hope that we can eliminate my 3 year old daughter and 6 month old son as possible suspects. My wife was going through postpartum depression, so I think it’s ok to eliminate her also. I don’t think that experience lends itself to the mentality needed to participate in an abduction. So who else could it possibly be? Is there anyone else on the faculty or in the community-at-large that you would like to point the finger at and disparage?

Ninth deals with “my relationship” with Roger. Simply put, there was no relationship other than the fact that he was in my class. I recall that he sat at the back of class, and never really participated in the class discussions. But on to the accusations.
1] He brought homework to my house so he could go skiing on the weekends. I cannot say he never did this. It may have occurred once, at the most twice, but not more than that. Depending on when this supposedly happened, would also be an important factor in my not remembering it. Since it was supposedly done by Roger so he could go skiing, then it would have occurred in the winter. Although November is possible as the month, it would depend on the amount of snowfall for that year. Chances are it was December or January, and the wrestling season had begun. December is taken up with tournaments every weekend, so I wouldn’t have been home. Had he showed up, my wife would have been the person he gave homework to. That is why I can’t say he never did it. But I would not have allowed it to continue more than twice. I have always had a strict homework policy. I do not accept late work. So I can see his concern that it be turned in on time, early if necessary. However, I also believe that all students must have the same opportunities, to do otherwise is to discriminate for the benefit of some, and the loss for others. So if I allowed him to do it, I would also have allowed all my students the right to do it. That is why I would have not have allowed him to turn it in at my home. It would be too easy for some students to say that they had dropped it off at my house and that I had lost it, when the fact would more likely be they just hadn’t done it. In regards to January, that was the beginning of the new semester if I recall correctly. There would have been one studysheet, possibly two, assigned for the new semester that month, and that would have been the only homework, since my classes are lecture based. And this idea that Mr. Ellison allegedly confronted me about the homework issue? Never happened. This is pure fabrication, created to support this “concern” about Roger showing up to turn in homework.
2] that I “counseled” Roger over issues that he had. Again, pure fabrication. As you have noted, I majored in history in college, not psychology. I only had 2 lower-division college courses in psychology at the time. So I knew that my knowledge base was very limited. I had never taught psychology before moving to Cedaredge, and it was only my second year at that time. It was one of those situations for a teacher where they “stay one chapter ahead of the students”. So why was I teaching psychology at all? It’s what was needed, along with history classes and a wrestling coach. And for many schools, the need for a coach outweighs the academic training of the teacher. If the teacher is credentialed in the subject area [social sciences], then they are allowed to teach any course offered in that subject area. The reality is that I taught mostly history courses. There is one interesting fact I have learned. Upper level math and science teachers are not usually considered rocket scientists. English teachers are not viewed as poets and authors. Even history or government teachers are not seen as historians or lawyers. But if you tell someone you teach psychology, for whatever reason, people think that you are a psychologist and, therefore, a therapist. I don’t have the course work, training, nor the license to do so. This also brings into dispute my “alleged diagnosis of Roger being suicidal”. For me to do that would be ludicrous, not to mention illegal. As I stated, he sat in the back of class, and rarely participated. I really didn’t know anything about him. But this fabricated story helps the contention that I either had something to do with his disappearance, or possibly knew about it. It is also made to sound like I just showed up out of the blue to talk to Mrs. Ellison. Didn’t happen that way. I was asked to talk to her. But this will be explained in our next section.
3] there is another possibility that hasn’t been considered. Is it possible that Roger told his parents he was going to my house to talk to me, and went somewhere else instead? Golly, the idea of a teenager misleading his/her parents, isn’t that a shocker?

Tenth- what do I know? I know that there is some information that has been kept from the public. How do I know this? I provided the detective with information. As to why the Sheriffs Dept. has decided to keep this from the public is something only they can answer. I was instructed by the detective at the time that I was not to publicly divulge the content of the information I provided, nor to discuss the conversations we had. Now. am I still bound by those instructions? I don’t know, but I will continue to abide by those instructions. As I said, if the Sheriffs Dept. wants to make that information public, they will. So, what can I say?
1] There was a class experiment/assignment that I gave to the detective. It had 10 parts to it. The students were not aware that it would be turned in to me. One thing I had learned about having students answer questions verbally in class was that it could be embarrassing for them. So, I would have students write their answers, and then I would give examples on the board, and they could check for themselves to see what their answer might mean. That way their answer stayed confidential to themselves. However, for this particular assignment, after they finished writing their answers, I had them submit their papers. I chose one section of the assignment and put their anonymous responses on the board. That way, no one would get embarrassed. It was all I was going to do, but the students were so interested, they wanted to look at other sections. However, it was at the end of the class period, and I said we would continue the next day. So I stapled the papers together, along with the sheet which had the questions, and put it in my desk drawer. We never did continue because I was falling behind and needed to complete the book within the required time, and felt the example I provided was sufficient. The stapled papers remained in my desk drawer until the detective came into my class to interview me [as he did with Roger’s other teachers]. When he asked me if I had any work of Roger’s, I explained the only thing I ever really had them do which they submitted were the studysheets, which after being graded, were returned to them. Then I remembered the assignment. I found Roger’s and gave it to the detective. After he read it, he asked me what 2 of the sections were. I showed him the question sheet. At that point, he showed me what Roger had written. Then the detective left, taking the assignment. He returned a couple of days later to ask if I had possibly found any other work of Roger’s. He then explained what else he had found out and how it related to what Roger had written on the assignment.
2] my visit to see Mrs. Ellison is made to sound like I just showed up at her house and told her I had diagnosed Roger as being suicidal. Although it is a fact that I met with her, the description of how it occurred is totally inaccurate. I was contacted by the detective that she would like to talk to me. He and I discussed what could be said. So while at the house, I was basically noncommittal about everything. The statement that I “diagnosed” Roger as suicidal” is ludicrous. I know that I am not a psychologist, and have never pretended to be. So I didn’t say that, and never would have said that. The next day or so I met again with the detective and [as best as I can describe it] was “debriefed”. That was the last time I met with the detective.
3] in 1997, I had a telephone conversation with a person who identified himself as a detective from the Sheriffs Dept. who had been given the assignment of looking into Roger’s case again. He asked if I was willing to come out to Colorado for a new interview. I asked if I would be compensated for all costs--> gas, food, and lodging. I was told no. I asked if there was a departmental budget that would allow him to come out here. He said there was, and that he actually had a conference to attend in LA in a couple of weeks. He asked if he could come up to my house at that time. I told him that was fine. I then asked if they still had Rogers paper that I had given the detective, and his notebook. He really didn’t give me a solid answer. Bottom line, this person never showed up.
So that’s it. If the Sheriffs Dept. wants to comment on the class assignment and what is contained in the detective’s notebook, that will be their decision.

But now I would like to leave a note for Roger with the hope he will read it. I do not know that he is dead, and would like to think that, in fact, he is still alive and doing well. So Roger, as you can see from these websites devoted to finding out what happened to you, it is time to end the search. Do you have to explain anything to these sleuthies? No. You do need to inform the Delta County Sheriffs about your situation. I would hope that they would respect your right of privacy and not publicly divulge your explanation if you ask that of them. Do you need to discuss it with your family members? That sir is your choice, but probably some sort of explanation would be in order.

JPash

JPash,

There is nothing I can say other than that I am truly very sorry. I can't imagine what it must feel like to experience such scrutiny, judgment, and accusations from anonymous persons with a limited appreciation for the circumstances and individuals involved. I appreciate that you decided to share your feelings, it has been sobering.

MaedchenX said:

JPash,

There is nothing I can say other than that I am truly very sorry. I can't imagine what it must feel like to experience such scrutiny, judgment, and accusations from anonymous persons with a limited appreciation for the circumstances and individuals involved. I appreciate that you decided to share your feelings, it has been sobering.

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I second this post.

I've seen some excellent sleuthing on these boards that have provided LE with valuable tips and connections, but I admit that sometimes I'm bothered by the latching onto certain people and digging into their lives. Which is a double-edged sword, certainly, as that kind of tenacity has helped to bring out some people who are actually guilty, but I do worry about the over-scrutiny and accusations against people who are innocent of any involvement in crimes and disappearances. I'm sure there must have been other people suspected in Roger's disappearance, but it seems like Mr. Pash was the only person people were willing to consider as the guilty party. I'm a teacher myself, and I'd be horrified if I were implicated (even on an online message board) in a student's murder or disappearance - of course I'd be disturbed by it personally, but such accusations can be career-ending even when proven false, because the seed of doubt is planted in the community's mind and you'll never be seen again as a trustworthy teacher.

Again, I've seen amazing things happen on these boards, but I do worry about situations like this one - I hate to see an innocent person have their reputation ruined by people jumping to conclusions.

JPash,

I would like to offer my apologies. When I asked questions, I didn't mean for them to be offensive, but reading back I can see why you would take offense. I am truly sorry. Believe me, there were no "high fives" exchanged and I honestly didn't ask the questions I did with ill intent.

When I first looked at Roger's disappearance, I was looking to see if Roger's case and another unknown individual could be the same person. (In hopes that Roger is still alive.)

I would also like to thank you for coming here and speaking out.

Attack the post, not the posters. Everyone has a say.

Team work!

Let's focus on Roger. TIA.