MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #3

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Kimster said:
Hi NoZ! If you just read the past two pages and read the links, you will see what we have seen. They are rumors only. We can't discuss rumors as facts here. The media has been very hush hush. All they have said is that a 15 year old girl killed Elizabeth and hid her body so well that LE was unable to locate her. The 15 year old girl led LE to her body and is now awaiting a trial set for Nov 10th (I think?) on whether to try her as an adult or not.
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Hi Kimster, Yes, that is what I read too, that her body was so well hidden they missed it the first search.


Do you think those searchers/investigators had eagle eyes like a tracker, seeing if leaves were askew from what had fallen normally, twigs broken, too many leaves in one spot, or not?

I expect the best in anyone out searching for a body and so if she was that well hidden, beyond the grade A tracker/searcher's view, I would think this was a well premeditated murder and disposal. It just makes me sick to think of it. Looking at a photo of this gal on HLN tonight I am simply amazed she could be so cruel and calous! She looked so normal. Looks aren't everything, right?

xox xox
 
Kimster said:
Hi NoZ! If you just read the past two pages and read the links, you will see what we have seen. They are rumors only. We can't discuss rumors as facts here. The media has been very hush hush. All they have said is that a 15 year old girl killed Elizabeth and hid her body so well that LE was unable to locate her. The 15 year old girl led LE to her body and is now awaiting a trial set for Nov 10th (I think?) on whether to try her as an adult or not.
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November 18
 
I think there are several things we can intelligently discuss that has nothing to do with rumor -

1) She is charged with first degree murder which indicates LE found evidence of pre-planning. LE has said it was written evidence. Given her age, one could assume it was a diary or journal.

2) The response time on this case was very quick. LE has said the body was well-concealed, so there may have been some preparation beforehand or she may have scouted out a spot that was ideal for hiding a body.

3) Most locals know that this girl has a troubled past and a history of problems. Most serious mental illnesses have their onset in the teenage to young adult years.

4) I don't know when/if they will release the cause of death but family members have told others in the community. The knowledge only reinforces that this girl needs to be locked away for a very long time.
 
If the 15 year old is found guilty by insanity or mental default, if she is given life, does it stay as life even if she gets treatment and meds? Reason for my question is because wasn't Andrea Yates sentenced to a mental hospital, when she received life but now there is a chance for her to get parole due to she is now sane?

Please don't quote me on that, since I read this in our local news a few years ago.

TIA~
 
Ok I am lost can someone please clue me in on who AB is? TIA!
 
mnegri1973 said:
If the 15 year old is found guilty by insanity or mental default, if she is given life, does it stay as life even if she gets treatment and meds?
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I think its not guilty by reason of insanity that your talking about. Its actually very difficult to be found not guilty by reason of insanity or mental disease or defect. You can be very ill (schizophrenia, bipolar I, affective, etc.) and not meet the legal definition.

People who are found not guilty by reason of mental disease or defect are usually committed to the Dept of Mental Health for an undetermined amount of time.

I could be wrong, but I just don't see that happening here. As I said, it is very difficult -- much more than most people realize, to get this verdict and I think it would be especially difficult in Missouri. I suspect they will go for dual jurisdiction. She'll be handed over to youth services until she ages out and hopefully will be removed from society for a very, very long time.
 
Can anyone else confirm if a judge will be ruling on whether she's to remain in custody or be released awaiting that future 11/18 date?

While broad, guidelines for whether the state of MO defines someone as a juvi vs. adult can be found here http://www.mobar.org/903be1b2-c191-4e19-8c88-232c90f60254.aspx And while the judge takes a number of things into account, the most crucial in my opinion is the severity of the crime.

If the state can prove premeditation, I think she's automatically tried as an adult. Although we only know a tiny bit, my gut is that the pysch eval won't pan out for a mental illness defense. I think this might have been a girl who kind of faded into the background, without strong parental role models and an absence of boundaries.

In the meantime, I hope Elizabeth's family is surrounded with a strong support system.
 
I greatly appreciate the special help!:blowkiss:

That's weird. I saw that Twitter page the other day and didn't think it was the right one because I expected it to be "darker." It's strange what your imagination can come up with. I expected some full on vampire/goth look with murderous posts. I can see how it's disturbing in light of the crime, though.
 
For those who cannot send or receive PM's...would it be permissible if I created an internet link to a document with the suspect's name and links to the suspect's various social sites, and then either post the link here or put the link in my personal info?
 
realjoy said:
For those who cannot send or receive PM's...would it be permissible if I created an internet link to a document with the suspect's name and links to the suspect's various social sites, and then either post the link here or put the link in my personal info?
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As awesome as that would be, it would be against the rules. You can't post links to a minor's social sites here. Don't want to lose you or any of the helpful posts on this thread. :)

If you go to the countdown thread or one of the games, you can accrue enough posts for pm's in a short period of time.
 
STEADFAST said:
As awesome as that would be, it would be against the rules. You can't post links to a minor's social sites here. Don't want to lose you or any of the helpful posts on this thread. :)

If you go to the countdown thread or one of the games, you can accrue enough posts for pm's in a short period of time.
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I was afraid you would say that...but it was worth a shot! LOL Thanks :)
 
All you have to do is find one of the quotes posted by the alleged suspect (posted on previous threads). Then google "the quote" + Twitter and you should end up with the alleged suspects twitter account and her name.

ETA: "this is all i want in life; a reason for all this pain."
 
We are not allowed to post Myspace links either or ask people on the boards to send private messages. You may want to delete those threads before mods get ahold of them. I don't want to see anyone banned.
 
realjoy said:
For those who cannot send or receive PM's...would it be permissible if I created an internet link to a document with the suspect's name and links to the suspect's various social sites, and then either post the link here or put the link in my personal info?
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No.

Hoppy
mini-mod
 
realjoy said:
Did anyone notice that her status says "Mood: Hiding Something"?
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Yes and the majority of her entries seemed very dark. One can only hope that her parents are aware of the situation and will be getting her help.

I realize that the vast majority of these subculture movements are benign or an experimental phase on a teen's road to identity and independence. Yet some of these darker trends (i.e. "violence is a cupcake") seem to be particularly dangerous for teens at risk for mental illness. Judgment and clarity is hard at that age - period, and its exacerbated in the mentally ill.

It just makes me shudder.
 
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