VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #3

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dangrsmind said:
Right, but when did this connection occur? I know (for example) that Sam did a lot of the graphics for KillMusick.com. I'm wondering if he approached SKR or they approached him.
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i guess that he approached them. cannt find right now but if i remember right there was a topic (deleted now?) on killmusick.com where sickatnick was looking for someone who'd do some designing

p.s. sam's favourite smiley on killmusic.com:
axed.gif
 
... I don't buy that Sam could have smelled so bad that all three sets of "civilian" witnesses who he encountered in the hours between 4:30 and 10:00 on Friday morning found the smell overpowering, but would have "just not smelled bad enough" to raise notice during his separate interactions with law in the early hours of this same day. It just seems weird that the civilians all noticed while not seeming to have raised a flag for law enforcement.

Note that by mid-afternoon on Friday, when the bodies were first discovered at the house, at least one officer not only noticed the smell but recognized it as the smell of "what he believes is a decaying body": http://www2.timesdispatch.com/rtd/news/local/crime/article/FARM27G1_20090926-195801/295730/

porpoise said:
All this is not to mention the smell ... yes, the Farmville officers could have spoken with Sam at some remove from part of the house where bodies were lying. But there were three different sets of people who commented on Sam smelling like death itself [meaning really, really bad - not necessarily "the smell of death] later this same morning (the tow truck driver, the people at the breakfast place, the cab driver); not one of the four officers picked up anything odd about the scent?
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dangrsmind said:
One theory would be that he just didn't smell bad enough yet. For better or worse, the smell of death is largely unknown to most people in our society. Anyone that works in a slaughterhouse knows about it, soldiers are familiar with it, hunters encounter it, and I became familiar with the uniquely disturbing stench when I worked in a lab where animals were sacrificed for scientific research. I can imagine someone thinking it smelled bad, but not recognizing it for what it was. Also gxm posted some links to articles indicating that some people are more sensitive to this smell. I'm one of them, but maybe the officers weren't.
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When I first posted a couple of days ago, I mentioned that I believe the first three murders were probably committed overnight on either Monday/Tuesday (14th/15th) or Tuesday/Wednesday (16th/17th). If this guess is right, it would mean that the two girls and Emma's mom would have been dead for just 12-36 hours during the time that Mel's dad was outside the house on Wednesday afternoon, but 60-84 hours by the time the smell from the house [as opposed to the smell from Sam] was obvious to law enforcement two days later.

peace_gurl said:
Mel's father sit in the street for about 7 hours and knocked on the door several times....He did not smell anything unusual.....or he would have reported it right?
Click to expand...

I'd be curious to know how warm the weather was in Farmville that week, and which days Sam was noticed by others on the streets and out at the grocery store all by himself? My "simpler is better than more complicated" theory of the crime is that Sam really did NOT spend that much time alone in the house with the bodies (perhaps just from the early hours of Wednesday morning to late Thursday evening, maybe a day more than that). But he smelled terrible enough at least for the civilians to notice because by that point possibly just because he had not slept in at least two nights and had been sweating profusely in unchanged clothes, partly because he was freaked out over what he had already done and realized that he had no viable plan for what comes next, and perhaps even more "extra smelly" due to the warm weather - along with proximity to the decomposing bodies.
 
porpoise said:
... I don't buy that Sam could have smelled so bad that all three sets of "civilian" witnesses who he encountered in the hours between 4:30 and 10:00 on Friday morning found the smell overpowering, but would have "just not smelled bad enough" to raise notice during his separate interactions with law in the early hours of this same day. It just seems weird that the civilians all noticed while not seeming to have raised a flag for law enforcement.

Note that by mid-afternoon on Friday, when the bodies were first discovered at the house, at least one officer not only noticed the smell but recognized it as the smell of "what he believes is a decaying body": http://www2.timesdispatch.com/rtd/news/local/crime/article/FARM27G1_20090926-195801/295730/


When I first posted a couple of days ago, I mentioned that I believe the first three murders were probably committed overnight on either Monday/Tuesday (14th/15th) or Tuesday/Wednesday (16th/17th). If this guess is right, it would mean that the two girls and Emma's mom would have been dead for just 12-36 hours during the time that Mel's dad was outside the house on Wednesday afternoon, but 60-84 hours by the time the smell from the house [as opposed to the smell from Sam] was obvious to law enforcement two days later.



I'd be curious to know how warm the weather was in Farmville that week, and which days Sam was noticed by others on the streets and out at the grocery store all by himself? My "simpler is better than more complicated" theory of the crime is that Sam really did NOT spend that much time alone in the house with the bodies (perhaps just from the early hours of Wednesday morning to late Thursday evening, maybe a day more than that). But he smelled terrible enough at least for the civilians to notice because by that point possibly just because he had not slept in at least two nights and had been sweating profusely in unchanged clothes, partly because he was freaked out over what he had already done and realized that he had no viable plan for what comes next, and perhaps even more "extra smelly" due to the warm weather - along with proximity to the decomposing bodies.
Click to expand...

So you reject the thesis that four people knew about the murders four days before they were announced? If true, that puts the murders on the 14th. This theory is supported by the fact that none of the girls made any MySpace postings after the 14th IIRC.
 
My timeline…..it is not official and is based on news reports (including local), postings and message boards.

Sunday, Sept 13
They left Michigan and headed to Farmville
Mel posts @ 10:43 p.m. on MySpace SFTW was (expletive) amazing, back in Virginia now, be back in West Virginia on Wednesday. I MISS EVERYONE!!!".

Monday, Sept 14th - Weather 85 H 51 L

Myspace mood for Emma was “blazenBamBooka” with a frownie face
And Sam’s myspace mood was “Determined”

Tuesday, Sept 15th - Weather 85 H 55 L
1;23 am
Mel talks to her parents
She sets her mood to “having a blast” with hearts

7:52 p.m.
Emma writes on friend’s MySpace page “ I made SOO many that night haha and sam SAYS HIIIII!. I can’t wait till next yer!! Ill be driving next time"
The friend replied but says that Emma never replied.

Wed., Sept 16 Weather 79 H 50 L
Mel’s father went to Farmville. Call her cell about 1 hour prior to getting to Farmville but did not get an answer. He waited about 7 hours before returning to WV
Rev. Niederbrock was last seen at church.

Thurs. Sept 17th Weather 67H 64 L

Rev Niederbrock talks on the phone to the church treasure.
2:00 Pm. Rev Niederbrock talks to his mother when Mels mom calls. Rev. Niedderbrock tells his mom he is going to check on things.

8:30 pm.
Sam calls his family saying “I love you guys”

10:00 p.m.
calls his mom and tells her he is having a good time and that he loves her

11;58 p.m.
Mel’s mom calls asking for a welfare check. The police visit the house and are told they went to the movies. He expected them back at 1 a.m.


Friday. Sept 18th Weather 75H 63 L

12:59 a.m.
Sam calls police from Kelly house saying he heard noises in the basement

He logs on to myspace…..not sure of time

3:30 a.m.
Talks to Mel’ s mom on the phone and tells her that the car had broken down

4:00 a.m
Sam takes Rev. Niederbrocks Honda to Poor House Road.
Sam is written a ticket at about 4:20 a.m
He rides to Sheetz with Napiers Towing Service

6:00 a.m.
Sam is at Huddle house. Here he calls for a taxi

8:20 a.m.
Access Taxi takes him to RIC.

9:00 am. Taxi is pulled over for speeding. Sam has a smoke

9:30 a.m.
Sam is at RIC . He wants to change flights but does not have $150 to change his flight

Mel’s mom calls Razakel

3:15 pm.
Mel’s mom calls police again

4:30 pm.
SickTanicK calls Farmville Police

5:40
Mel’s parents file a missing persons report in WVA

6:15 p.m.
Search warrant written and executed for the Kelly house.

8:56 p.m.
WVA Sheriffs office contact FPD with missing persons report

Saturday, Sept 19th

11:25 a.m.
Sam is arrested at RIC
 
peace_gurl said:
My timeline…..it is not official and is based on news reports (including local), postings and message boards.

Sunday, Sept 13
They left Michigan and headed to Farmville
Mel posts @ 10:43 p.m. on MySpace SFTW was (expletive) amazing, back in Virginia now, be back in West Virginia on Wednesday. I MISS EVERYONE!!!".

Monday, Sept 14th - Weather 85 H 51 L

Myspace mood for Emma was “blazenBamBooka” with a frownie face
And Sam’s myspace mood was “Determined”

Tuesday, Sept 15th - Weather 85 H 55 L
1;23 am
Mel talks to her parents
She sets her mood to “having a blast” with hearts

7:52 p.m.
Emma writes on friend’s MySpace page “ I made SOO many that night haha and sam SAYS HIIIII!. I can’t wait till next yer!! Ill be driving next time"
The friend replied but says that Emma never replied.

Wed., Sept 16 Weather 79 H 50 L
Mel’s father went to Farmville. Call her cell about 1 hour prior to getting to Farmville but did not get an answer. He waited about 7 hours before returning to WV
Rev. Niederbrock was last seen at church.

Thurs. Sept 17th Weather 67H 64 L

Rev Niederbrock talks on the phone to the church treasure.
2:00 Pm. Rev Niederbrock talks to his mother when Mels mom calls. Rev. Niedderbrock tells his mom he is going to check on things.

8:30 pm.
Sam calls his family saying “I love you guys”

10:00 p.m.
calls his mom and tells her he is having a good time and that he loves her

11;58 p.m.
Mel’s mom calls asking for a welfare check. The police visit the house and are told they went to the movies. He expected them back at 1 a.m.


Friday. Sept 18th Weather 75H 63 L

12:59 a.m.
Sam calls police from Kelly house saying he heard noises in the basement

He logs on to myspace…..not sure of time

3:30 a.m.
Talks to Mel’ s mom on the phone and tells her that the car had broken down

4:00 a.m
Sam takes Rev. Niederbrocks Honda to Poor House Road.
Sam is written a ticket at about 4:20 a.m
He rides to Sheetz with Napiers Towing Service

6:00 a.m.
Sam is at Huddle house. Here he calls for a taxi

8:20 a.m.
Access Taxi takes him to RIC.

9:00 am. Taxi is pulled over for speeding. Sam has a smoke

9:30 a.m.
Sam is at RIC . He wants to change flights but does not have $150 to change his flight

Mel’s mom calls Razakel

3:15 pm.
Mel’s mom calls police again

4:30 pm.
SickTanicK calls Farmville Police

5:40
Mel’s parents file a missing persons report in WVA

6:15 p.m.
Search warrant written and executed for the Kelly house.

8:56 p.m.
WVA Sheriffs office contact FPD with missing persons report

Saturday, Sept 19th

11:25 a.m.
Sam is arrested at RIC
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So last MySpace posting in the evening of the 15th? So everyone was alive at that time.

This poses a problem for Drama's story that people knew about the murders on the 14th, four days before the crimes were revealed on the 18th.

Edited to add: Although maybe Drama is talking about four days before the arrest which was on the 19th.
 
Two members of my distant family were murdered by their children. I had a very hard time believing that two 15 year old girls who would babysit and played with my girls would do such a thing. To this day we do not know the reason for the act. I wanted to believe it was not true even when I watched the dogs follow their trail.
I know that Sam is innocent until proven otherwise but if he is found guility I can feel for his friends and family. I have to stop and remember that the worst person on earth has someone that loves them.

I think of my great aunt who buried her daughter and husband and lost her granddaughters at the same time. How she made it I will never know.
 
... I'm not so sure that I'd call a single posting from someone who says they were a friend of Sam's (and doesn't seem to believe he was even involved) a "thesis" yet ... it seems to me like there would be a lot more evidence for this out there on the other discussion boards if the information from this one-time poster was 100% true; I'll assign more weight to the postings from Peace Gurl - who's added additional "local" detail now, and makes it sound like overnight Tuesday/Wednesday (even allowing for uncertainty of MySpace clock times) is most likely time frame for murders of the two girls and of Emma's mom.

dangrsmind said:
So you reject the thesis that four people knew about the murders four days before they were announced? If true, that puts the murders on the 14th. This theory is supported by the fact that none of the girls made any MySpace postings after the 14th IIRC.
Click to expand...
 
dangrsmind said:
Interesting.

I'd like to know more about why he chose this name. I note no mention of SKR or WIR on that page as well. So this is before he got into that stuff apparently although there are some juggalo artists listed of course.

Now I am wondering how he met the SKR and WIR guys originally.
Click to expand...

IIRC, early on in the threads an online conversation was linked, between (I think) Emma and Sam and she asks him why he uses that name and even said something to the effect of: Are you short or something? And he replied that he got the name from Son of Sam.

Anyway, I either remember that it was previously explained or I'm hallucinating again. :D
 
peace_gurl said:
Mel's father sit in the street for about 7 hours and knocked on the door several times....He did not smell anything unusual.....or he would have reported it right?
Click to expand...

True. But that was Wednesday. We don't now when Sam killed the women so the smell may not have been noticeable yet.

Although, I would think Mel's dad would have parked in the driveway which would have put him on the same side of the house as the room the bodies were in. Also, I would imagine that he got out of his car and walked around the house and property. It's hard to believe he sat in the car the entire time.
 
deita said:
okcupid.com/profile/LiLdEmOnDoG
Click to expand...

"Smokes - no
Drinks - sometimes
Drugs - never

Spend a lot of time thinking about - World Domination ;x "
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Could be just a joke about gaming-type thing, but kinda weird since some people in demonism want to take over the world!

Also odd to me that he signed in as recently as Sep 2009, even though he was wildly in love (presumably) with Emma.
 
dangrsmind said:
So you reject the thesis that four people knew about the murders four days before they were announced? If true, that puts the murders on the 14th. This theory is supported by the fact that none of the girls made any MySpace postings after the 14th IIRC.
Click to expand...

Do you recall Pixie mentioning (and maybe even linking) online correspondence with Raz saying something about everyone keeping their mouths shut and we won't get into trouble? I don't recall the exact wording, but the implication has definitely stuck with me.

(Apologies for misspelling anyone's nic/name)
 
gxm said:
True. But that was Wednesday. We don't now when Sam killed the women so the smell may not have been noticeable yet.

Although, I would think Mel's dad would have parked in the driveway which would have put him on the same side of the house as the room the bodies were in. Also, I would imagine that he got out of his car and walked around the house and property. It's hard to believe he sat in the car the entire time.
Click to expand...

It seems to me I remember reading that he parked in front of the house and stayed in the car ... I just remember this because it was so odd to me! Of course, I can't say where I read it.
 
wadahoot said:
It seems to me I remember reading that he parked in front of the house and stayed in the car ... I just remember this because it was so odd to me! Of course, I can't say where I read it.
Click to expand...

I think you may be right but I just can't imagine not getting out and walking around the property. I would probably have been looking into windows too, but maybe the fact that he stayed in the car kept him alive.
 
porpoise said:
... I'm not so sure that I'd call a single posting from someone who says they were a friend of Sam's (and doesn't seem to believe he was even involved) a "thesis" yet ... it seems to me like there would be a lot more evidence for this out there on the other discussion boards if the information from this one-time poster was 100% true; I'll assign more weight to the postings from Peace Gurl - who's added additional "local" detail now, and makes it sound like overnight Tuesday/Wednesday (even allowing for uncertainty of MySpace clock times) is most likely time frame for murders of the two girls and of Emma's mom.
Click to expand...

He's put forward a theory that four people knew about the murders four days before the police did. That theory is either true or false and we may eventually know the truth.

Also, Drama has posted a fair amount about this on other sites previously. FWIW.
 
gxm said:
Do you recall Pixie mentioning (and maybe even linking) online correspondence with Raz saying something about everyone keeping their mouths shut and we won't get into trouble? I don't recall the exact wording, but the implication has definitely stuck with me.

(Apologies for misspelling anyone's nic/name)
Click to expand...

Indeed.
 
wadahoot said:
Could be just a joke about gaming-type thing, but kinda weird since some people in demonism want to take over the world!

Also odd to me that he signed in as recently as Sep 2009, even though he was wildly in love (presumably) with Emma.
Click to expand...

Profile is no longer available.
 
dangrsmind said:
One theory would be that he just didn't smell bad enough yet.

For better or worse, the smell of death is largely unknown to most people in our society. Anyone that works in a slaughterhouse knows about it, soldiers are familiar with it, hunters encounter it, and I became familiar with the uniquely disturbing stench when I worked in a lab where animals were sacrificed for scientific research. I can imagine someone thinking it smelled bad, but not recognizing it for what it was.



Also gxm posted some links to articles indicating that some people are more sensitive to this smell. I'm one of them, but maybe the officers weren't.
Click to expand...
So true
 
dangrsmind said:
Sam is a Capricorn.

From the very first listing on Google for "capricorn september 2009":

An enthusiastic attitude, on your part, will dominate this month. You will get involved in short distance travels, which will be comfortable as well as rewarding. Family happiness is indicated and your brothers or sisters will be quite comfortable. You might take impulsive decisions, but they will turn out to be in your favor. You are likely to acquire a vehicle in this period. Your contacts with people will increase. Service conditions will also improve. By the grace of God, things will start coming your way.
Click to expand...

I'm a capricorn too ya know!? haha!
 
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