Andrea Lyon New DP Atty

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Just Jayla said:
Andrea Lyon had joined ranks with the likes of Bernadine Dohrn in protesting the alleged tortures of 24 minority men in Chicago by one of their police lieutenents.
The special prosecutor admits the tortures, but will not charge the lietenent due to SOL's.

Because this group does not like the SOL thing, they have appealed to the UN and the USDOJ to bring charges against the police lieutenent. AL's group is comparing this man to Lindy Englund & friends of Abu Graib fame.
This Lt. is as repugnant as Lindy Englund & friends, but a citizen of the state of Illinois is absolutely not subject to the mandates of the UN. He does not have to abide by Geneva, he has to abide by the laws of Illinois. If the SOL's are not long eneough in Illinois, wouldn't it be proper to address it through their legislature and see if they can get grandfathered laws?

AL's group does not address tortures that may have happened to white defendants-

http://justicereform.net/essay_07-04.html

As this applies to KC's case: I have to wonder why she decided to take on this case in a state that does not require special circumstances, and a state that is the third highest in executions. If KC is only a stepping stone in an overall agenda, will KC's needs really be addressed specific to her own case? Will KC miss the opportunity to receive a plea because of this driving agenda? AL has already eluded to the fact that she would ideally like JudgeS to weigh-in on the DP choice in Florida (though he has refused so far).

I don't believe AL took this job for the same reason LKB did (notariety), I think she took it to make a change. Look for an ultimate indictment of the laws of Florida from AL.Any appeals will focus on the laws of Florida, rather than the circumstances of this case, I believe-And I don't think that fairs well for KC (It would benefit AL's agenda to get to the higher courts), though it might make AL feel fulfilled.
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ITA. I think AL took the case because she sees it as an opportunity to bring her dog and pony show to the world stage. The perp's case is eminently useful to that end. Meanwhile the perp is merely incidental and instrumental. The higher purpose is all that matters. She's hit the motherlode.
 
jandkmom said:
At about the 4:22 mark she says that in speaking about jurors in the closing argument - "either think that I remember what they said in which case they were appreciative or I'm a damn genius, which is fine to because I agree with that."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TO6YV0sw_Fk&feature=channel
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Of course she thinks she is a genius...she doesn't loose DP, penalty phase portions of trials...she is the angel of death row...she is like Wonder Woman....if only she had Wonder Woman's golden lasso to use on KC...:innocent:

“This is the Golden Lasso. Besides being made from an indestructible material, it also carries with it the power to compel people to tell the truth. Use it well, and with compassion.” – Queen Hippolyte

k I am done...need to go back ot being a mamabear
 
bumping this back up. With the latest book thread there will probably be more discussions of AL
 
Emily Hughes is an associate of Andrea L. Here is a link to an article she wrote regarding mitigating death. It is long but gives some hints as to the possible arguments AL will have to prevent KC being sentenced to death. I found of particular interest, discussion regarding arguing ineffective defense counsel as a mitigating factor. Could this be part of AL plan? We have wondered how she could work with JB. Perhaps, she plans to use his representation as a mitigating factor to save KC. Hmmmmmmm

http://www.lawschool.cornell.edu/research/JLPP/upload/CJP202-2.pdf
 
sleutherontheside said:
Emily Hughes is an associate of Andrea L. Here is a link to an article she wrote regarding mitigating death. It is long but gives some hints as to the possible arguments AL will have to prevent KC being sentenced to death. I found of particular interest, discussion regarding arguing ineffective defense counsel as a mitigating factor. Could this be part of AL plan? We have wondered how she could work with JB. Perhaps, she plans to use his representation as a mitigating factor to save KC. Hmmmmmmm

http://www.lawschool.cornell.edu/research/JLPP/upload/CJP202-2.pdf
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Well I think it would fly better than anything we've seen them come up with so far! KC's own story is so full of holes, and their attempts at deflection to others so weak, that using her attorney as a scapegoat seems prudent. It's what his last defendant did after conviction.
 
whiteangora said:
I just watched that video again and it really looks as though AL did elbow Kathi pretty hard. (a bit after the 5 min mark).
IMO, AL is a bully with a horrible personality and I can't picture any Florida jury liking her or being persuaded by anything she says.
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While I feel the same, we have to remember AL is not yet putting on the show for the jury. What happened at this last hearing may have bored us, and I think it should have been a written motion on the constitutionality of the death penalty rather than a lengthy speech taking up the Circuit Court time,(she could send all those ideas to the Sup. Court btw but just as a matter of stopping DP in general, not just for KC's case when appeals come in), she was stopped cold by the ever patient Judge Strickland. He was 100% correct to call her down when he said the do you want me to reinvent the wheel thing. That speech was meant to be a written motion. The Judge would still have to rule the same way. This may have upset AL so much she may pull out the biggest drama yet for a jury. She was truly embarrassed and in front of the world. If she continues on to trial, I am sure she is going to be dragging loads of emotion and not boring case law to the jury. She now really, really has to win. That is the name of the game.

JMO.

ETA: I am not certain AL will stay on for the trial though. If she thinks this one case will tarnish her little 19 tried 19 won touting, she will pull out before trial. There is something unnerving about that small count, her touting, her book and that hugely misleading title to it, and the genius remark.
 
21merc7 said:
While I feel the same, we have to remember AL is not yet putting on the show for the jury. What happened at this last hearing may have bored us, and I think it should have been a written motion on the constitutionality of the death penalty rather than a lengthy speech taking up the Circuit Court time,(she could send all those ideas to the Sup. Court btw but just as a matter of stopping DP in general, not just for KC's case when appeals come in), she was stopped cold by the ever patient Judge Strickland. He was 100% correct to call her down when he said the do you want me to reinvent the wheel thing. That speech was meant to be a written motion. The Judge would still have to rule the same way. This may have upset AL so much she may pull out the biggest drama yet for a jury. She was truly embarrassed and in front of the world. If she continues on to trial, I am sure she is going to be dragging loads of emotion and not boring case law to the jury. She now really, really has to win. That is the name of the game.

JMO.

ETA: I am not certain AL will stay on for the trial though. If she thinks this one case will tarnish her little 19 tried 19 won touting, she will pull out before trial. There is something unnerving about that small count, her touting, her book and that hugely misleading title to it, and the genius remark.
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Unnerved is a great description-I am deeply suspicious of her behavior in the first place because of the types of groups she chooses to work with in Chicago, her methodology is something I am deeply opposed to.
AL should spend a little more time deciding if she wants to advocate for this client or for her own interests, cause this client will begin to behave badly if she feels she is not the star of the show. And this client will buck like a horse if AL suggests a plea in order to keep her DP record intact. I can hear KC complaining to JB about AL already.
 
Just Jayla;

I agree. I do think AL should still continue to do her work to abolish DP in the United States, she seems to be adept at the arguments. KC on the other hand is probably already a problem, and that is AL's ticket out. She can withdraw b/c of KC, especially if KC starts asking AL to "lie" in Court. I think AL knew this from the start though.

ETA: Well, everyone knew from the beginning KC would be a pain, so any attorney would be allowed to withdraw just based on the obvious, lol!
 
With out AL, then another DP atty would need to be found.

JB found a way around the law concerning DP Atty. Such an atty would be the most qualified atty in the group and most would assume would not join the group unless they led the group. Which would ensure the defendant got the level of representation needed.

AL is DP qualified. But she is not really involved IN the case. She is ONLY handling the DP issues. That leaves JB the 'lead' Atty. She is a match made in Heaven for JB.

If AL leaves, who would accept that sort of deal? AL has done a good job of showing where the line is, so folks know it's his screw up. She is willing to put up with it, just so she can work on her passion, the DP issue.

IF She leaves.. JB is in trouble.
 
Spangle said:
With out AL, then another DP atty would need to be found.

JB found a way around the law concerning DP Atty. Such an atty would be the most qualified atty in the group and most would assume would not join the group unless they led the group. Which would ensure the defendant got the level of representation needed.

AL is DP qualified. But she is not really involved IN the case. She is ONLY handling the DP issues. That leaves JB the 'lead' Atty. She is a match made in Heaven for JB.

If AL leaves, who would accept that sort of deal? AL has done a good job of showing where the line is, so folks know it's his screw up. She is willing to put up with it, just so she can work on her passion, the DP issue.

IF She leaves.. JB is in trouble.
Click to expand...

I think AL is doing a great job, I just find some things bothersome. If DP is taken off the table she will not have a part in this anymore anyway. However, if she decided to leave, yep, JB is up the creek for a bit, but the Court would appoint a DP qualified and JB would just have to bite the bullet and sit on on his hands. KC must have qualified counsel regardless of JB's current standing. (Still not sure AL will let JB even tarnish her self image though. Your name on a case is just that, your name on a case.)
 
I have skimmed the thread and if I missed this discussion please excuse me. I have seen a number of articles discussing AL joining KC the defense team. I have seen statements from Terrence L stating his utmost respect for AL and also indicating that they are not friends. BUT....

In a seminar for FACDL that was hosted at the Renaissance Orlando Hotel Airport March 26-28, 2009 he is clearly listed as a speaker with his name listed right below AL. His topic for discussion was "Creative Motion Practice" and hers was "Closing Arguments in the Penalty Phase: Lecture and Demonstration"

Here is the brochure
http://www.facdl.org/Seminars&CLEs/DDXV/Death%20Is%20Different%20XV%20Brochure.pdf

I have to wonder if there is a connection here??

Additionally...this seminar did not specify that membership to FACDL was required. See the registration page at the link above. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm
 
sleutherontheside said:
I have skimmed the thread and if I missed this discussion please excuse me. I have seen a number of articles discussing AL joining KC the defense team. I have seen statements from Terrence L stating his utmost respect for AL and also indicating that they are not friends. BUT....

In a seminar for FACDL that was hosted at the Renaissance Orlando Hotel Airport March 26-28, 2009 he is clearly listed as a speaker with his name listed right below AL. His topic for discussion was "Creative Motion Practice" and hers was "Closing Arguments in the Penalty Phase: Lecture and Demonstration"

Here is the brochure
http://www.facdl.org/Seminars&CLEs/DDXV/Death%20Is%20Different%20XV%20Brochure.pdf

I have to wonder if there is a connection here??

Additionally...this seminar did not specify that membership to FACDL was required. See the registration page at the link above. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm
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This does not make them in cahoots. Every attorney, well at least in this state, but would think it is the same in Florida even though Florida is more relaxed than most, must either attend seminars, speak at seminars, or teach at a local college for "MCLE" credits. At least that is what the credits are called here. Attorneys must have X amount of hours of continuing education every year in order to remain a "registered" attorney in their practicing state. So, nope, probably just crossed paths.
 
21merc7 said:
This does not make them in cahoots. Every attorney, well at least in this state, but would think it is the same in Florida even though Florida is more relaxed than most, must either attend seminars, speak at seminars, or teach at a local college for "MCLE" credits. At least that is what the credits are called here. Attorneys must have X amount of hours of continuing education every year in order to remain a "registered" attorney in their practicing state. So, nope, probably just crossed paths.
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Oh I know that doesn't prove any prior relationship. I am just wondering about the "timing" of it all. I'm all about timing and opportunity. Often it plays a part. Such as my interest in the "timing" of JB "meeting" KC. KWIM?
 
sleutherontheside said:
Oh I know that doesn't prove any prior relationship. I am just wondering about the "timing" of it all. I'm all about timing and opportunity. Often it plays a part. Such as my interest in the "timing" of JB "meeting" KC. KWIM?
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Oh, I misunderstood, I am so sorry.

The story, in the beginning of this case, is that a woman in jail gave KC Baez's phone number. Then it got all mixed up that KC went to High School with JB's daughter, which could be true. Then, the mix goes on. May never know the truth on that one though.
 
Spangle said:
With out AL, then another DP atty would need to be found.

JB found a way around the law concerning DP Atty. Such an atty would be the most qualified atty in the group and most would assume would not join the group unless they led the group. Which would ensure the defendant got the level of representation needed.

AL is DP qualified. But she is not really involved IN the case. She is ONLY handling the DP issues. That leaves JB the 'lead' Atty. She is a match made in Heaven for JB.

If AL leaves, who would accept that sort of deal? AL has done a good job of showing where the line is, so folks know it's his screw up. She is willing to put up with it, just so she can work on her passion, the DP issue.

IF She leaves.. JB is in trouble.
Click to expand...


I think KC will end up with a public defender after this trial or after the first appeal anyway-My recollection is that not many attorneys in JB's/AL's position stay onboard after the initial sentencing-Especially if it comes time for KC to say her lawyers were inept.
 
Just Jayla said:
I think KC will end up with a public defender after this trial or after the first appeal anyway-My recollection is that not many attorneys in JB's/AL's position stay onboard after the initial sentencing-Especially if it comes time for KC to say her lawyers were inept.
Click to expand...

Makes me wonder - could that be the defense's strategy? They really don't have too many options to get KC off, so maybe they are being as inept as possible to give KC more options for appeal? Sad to think this may be a case strategy for them, but I just don't see how many viable options they have...
 
So....this evening I listened to a lecture that AL gave at the Kentucky Public Defender College. This speech was given at a conference back in 2008. Some interesting highlights worth noting..... AL says...and I quote....." My one and only negotiation tool is........ you, let's pick a jury".

Additionally, she goes into great detail about voir dire and describes part of her strategy.....She knows that each potential juror will be asked what they think mitigation means. Then she obtains transcripts taken during voir dire....when questioning a juror she appeals to them on a personal level from info in their answers given during initial voir dire. She uses the transcripts to find a common ground. She gave an example of a woman she was questioning. She noted that the woman was wearing "sensible shoes", lived in a "racist neighborhood" (in her words...you know the kind where you have to fill out a questionairre to prove how racist you are before you can move in. haha) had a husband who was employed by so and so. BUT, she noted that when the woman got up, she had on a purple slip and she figured this woman must be a nut so she agreed to have her on the jury. According to AL, that woman caused a hung jury and her client got off.

AL also went into explicit detail about how to talk up the "bad photos" that the pros will present. Her advice is to make them seem far worse than they really are so that the jury will be disappointed that they were not as bad as they anticipated. She advises beginning this set up in voir dire and in opening.

For more juicy tidbits go to link and listen to the lecture.

http://recordings.talkshoe.com/rss48591.xml
 
21merc7 said:
I think AL is doing a great job, I just find some things bothersome. If DP is taken off the table she will not have a part in this anymore anyway. However, if she decided to leave, yep, JB is up the creek for a bit, but the Court would appoint a DP qualified and JB would just have to bite the bullet and sit on on his hands. KC must have qualified counsel regardless of JB's current standing. (Still not sure AL will let JB even tarnish her self image though. Your name on a case is just that, your name on a case.)
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I don't think the court can do that, unless she shows she can't afford an atty. AT which point, then JB or anyone else would be her atty, until the court apoints them (and pays them)

If JB still wants to be in the loop, then He has to find the DP atty to add to "HIS" team. Before AL came on board, there was much talk of who he would be able to get, that would still allow him to be the 'lead." I couldn't figure out how it could be done. Since such experienced lawyers would expect to be the lead. And because of their experience, should be the lead. But AL, with her passion, was willing to deal only with the DP part of the case and allow JB to deal with the rest.

I think that AL being on board has helped KC alot. It has put some reality into the group. Using the excuse of "DP" she has pulled the reins on Cindy a bit. I wouldn't doubt that she got ahold of JB's ear by using the "DP" reason.. .

However, that is a big difference from having the PD atty being the lead chair. Directing the murder case as well as the DP sentencing.
 
Spangle;

I don't know. I know JB is not being paid unless CA and GA are forking some over, everyone else is there for the publicity. (Pro Bono.) Guess AL is stuck for now. JB can be relieved at any time by KC. I just don't know how this will all work out. JB is not going to STFU for AL, AL is not going to let JB tarnish her record. Guess we will see. I am now confused, not that I wasn't before, lol!

To clarify: KC is indigent. She has no income to pay for an attorney, much less this type of trial. She may have jail income, I don't know, but it would only buy Cheetos and Pop Tarts. So, yes, she would be granted Court appointed counsel. CA & GA are not responsible for any Court costs, fines, or attorney fees, it is all on KC.

As far as which attorney will now do what for this trial, I really don't know. That is where I am confused now, and so is everyone else I see. This we will all just have to wait and see. I forgot that T. Mascaluco (I am certain I misspelled that, apologies to him) is still there, or is he? Guess I lost track of who is where, but who is going to do what remains to be seen. I would not wager on any of them at this moment, more will need to be exposed. Sorry for all of the fuss for nothing.

Flowers and beads!
 
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