AZ - Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, 26 Dec 2009 - last seen in Texas - #6

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I agree that many mothers could get away with claiming not to know the father and posting notification in a newspaper to obtain the father's consent. But right now EJ is one mother who CANNOT legally adopt out her child. No adoption would already be final, and even if it were the courts would have record of it and that would be great because then we would know who had Gabriel. Now if someone helped her get false papers for her and for Gabriel, sure, but then it's not a LEGAL adoption.
 
I thought she was using a fake name (per her court appearance)? What if she didn't tell the adoption agency her real identity?

I would assume she would have to have a birth certificate and some kind of proof that it is her child. How would the "agency" know that it is even her kid if she used fake names?
 
And an adoption professional in Tennessee would know this and would be able to instruct someone (EJ) not to identify the father.

Okay maybe it's because I'm half asleep (or maybe it's because I'm just stupid) but I'm not getting how an adoption can be legal when it's based on a lie. I thought a lie rendered any legal transaction invalid.


Quoted from mum:

in TX they did not need his consent

then my questions is will the placement be legal? I believe since she placed in the state of TX, that it might be

educated her about TX law and not needing birthdads signiture to place

you will see a ton of cases where birthdads rights do not exist in different states such as TX, Utah etc...

The law in TX has a loop hole

other states where birthdads rights are almost non existent

Also in TX (new law) if a mom makes an adoption plan and she is not married and birthdads name is not on the birth certificate then they do not need to get birthdad to consent to the adoption.

If she signed the baby over to the agency they would then have legal custody,
 
http://www.world-newspapers.com/arizona.html
An ad could be place in any one of these papers and I doubt Logan would ever see it. Also only initials are used and the wording is something such as this:

"anyone having possibly fathered said minor on or about (insert date) is notified of pending adoption." Like I said in a previous post these ads are very vague.

Initials would not be used since Elizabeth was not a minor. NO woman (minor or not) cannot place a child for adoption without going through the legal recourses. IF Elizabeth used a fake name then that name would have to show up somewhere/ss#, etc. This .... it's so easy to get rid of child (being posted here) is not true, imo.
 
I will take your word for it that that is true, however that is not the first time the child enters the court system. Even temp custody or guardianship has to be approved in court.

I think it has to be filed with the court, not approved by the court. It's as simple as going to an attorney's office and signing the paperwork, the attorney then files it with the court. The custody agreement is part of the completed adoption agreement and is followed by the adoption affidavit also filed with the court once all guidelines have been satisfied, such as notification of punitive father.

Good Article

Preventing Your Infant from Being Adopted Without Your Consent
http://adoption.about.com/cs/adoptionrights/a/unwedfath.htm
 
And, when one attorney responded when Nancy asked how jurors would see all this, basically, like Elizabeth was out having a good time spending money, the attorney (or attorneys said) thought it would be in Elizabeth's favor because it indicates she left Gabriel with someone who was going to take care of him and she is getting on with her life.

[sbm]

really? has that attorney forgotten about KC?
 
I would assume she would have to have a birth certificate and some kind of proof that it is her child. How would the "agency" know that it is even her kid if she used fake names?

EXACTLY ... fake name or not (birth certificate or not) ... there has to be a ss# to match THE mom who wants to rid herself of "that" child. It has to match up ... fake or not.
 
She never said everything, just paid in cash...and you can cash in a month worth of WIC at a time, she could have cashed in a month right before she left. With a cooler, most of it would keep.I don't know if AZ uses the card form or the paper form.
If they use the card kind of WIC, it's like a debit card, they can trace it in minutes. If it's paper form, it would take a few days to cycle back to WIC, but then they could check and see where she used the coupon.

what's WIC? is that like welfare or food stamps?
 
You can not give up your rights to a child by just walking into an office and claiming to be anyone you want to be!

what if somebody had money and really wanted a child of there own
would be hard to come with a birth cert and fake id for her ?
just thinking out loud
 
Texas law-

If a biological father is not cooperative with the birth mother in her adoption plan, or if the identity or whereabouts of the biological father are unknown, his rights may be terminated without notice by use of the Texas Paternity Registry. Texas law requires a biological father to register with the Texas Paternity Registry within 31 days of the birth of the child. If the biological father fails to register, the Court may terminate the rights of the biological father due to his failure to register as required by state law.

After parental rights have been terminated, the agency is appointed as managing conservator of the child. The prospective adoptive parents will be able to finalize their adoption after the child has resided in their home for 6 months. During this six-month time frame, the agency is responsible for supervision of the placement as required by Texas licensing standards. After these supervision requirements have been met, and the six months has elapsed, the agency will provide written consent (as managing conservators) to the adoption. A court hearing in the court of continuing jurisdiction is necessary to grant the adoption.

http://www.adoptionaccess.com/texas_laws.htm


This entire procedure is initiated in court and approved by a judge. Not after 6 months but from the beginning. You do not just take a child home for 6 months then contact the courts.

I would think the mother would also have to establish residency in TX, not just be passing through, but... IANAL... just using common sense on this one.
 
Has a statement come out from LE that they are convinced Gabriel is alive?

TIA

Every link here has said "LE/FBI has said they believe Gabriel is alive" which drive me nuts since "they" know something we don't. I'm so nosey and I want to know what they know. They aren't tell us. :banghead:
 
I agree with this. The money does work. I DO NOT think she sold this baby. I think when she found out the adoption thing wasn't going to work, she took the high road. Disappeared and hoped the baby's bed and clothing being ripped to shreds would look like she had been attacked and the baby taken. Ditched the car and walked away into her "new life". Question is, where is the baby?

that's from a prior incident
 
Initials would not be used since Elizabeth was not a minor. NO woman (minor or not) cannot place a child for adoption without going through the legal recourses. IF Elizabeth used a fake name then that name would have to show up somewhere/ss#, etc. This .... it's so easy to get rid of child (being posted here) is not true, imo.

I don't believe Elizabeth would have used a fake name in an adoption or a fake birth certificate. I think she used her real name and the agency is bound by the privacy act not to release her information, especially if she did a closed adoption.

I don't agree with the moral integrity or lack thereof in underhanded adoptions but the fact is Texas makes it very easy and I believe that is exactly why EJ came to Texas.
 
Please tell me how she could avoid the little legal details of this:

The birth mother’s parental rights are adjudicated in the Court based upon the execution of a Mother’s Affidavit of Relinquishment of Parental Rights. This affidavit cannot be signed until the expiration of 48 hours following the birth of the child. This legal document must be signed in front of a Notary Public and two witnesses. This affidavit is promptly filed with the Court. A hearing occurs and a judge enters a final order. Texas law does not require a birth parent to appear in court after executing an Affidavit of Relinquishment of Parental Rights.

http://www.adoptionaccess.com/texas_laws.htm


PLEASE explain how she could possibly avoid her name being involved in this court case and showing up Statewide in their computers?


As I stated before, I think she had a plan, but because of her text about killing Gabriel,,it all blew up and that is why the media everyone else is involved.

If you want to read up on what goes on with birth father rights in the US, please see this guys site. http://www.babyselling.com/

Also she does not have to appear in court, the notary can be someone from the agency as are the witnesses.
 
Here's a list of questions I wish they would ask Tammi at the next polygraph.


and last but not least...

21. Do you know that you can take a colonic every day for the rest of your life and this test will still tell us that you're full of ?


[sbm]


:laugh:
:rolling:
 
I don't believe Elizabeth would have used a fake name in an adoption or a fake birth certificate. I think she used her real name and the agency is bound by the privacy act not to release her information, especially is she did a closed adoption.

I don't agree with the moral integrity or lack thereof in underhanded adoptions but the fact is Texas makes it very easy and I believe that is exactly why EJ came to Texas.

I DO NOT AGREE that "Texas makes it very easy". Been there done that. But that's what makes the world go 'round. Each to their own research/opinions.
 
I am confused as to where the Smiths live as well. I know they live somewhere in the Metro Phoenix area, but their FB says they're in Paradise Valley, some news stories say they live in Scottsdale, while others say they're in Tempe.

(I probably shouldn't quibble to myself on this, they're all about a 15-30 minute drive from each other. Come to think of it, Scottsdale and Tempe even share a border, so maybe I should obsess about something else, lol)

I would assume somewhere around the edge of Paradise Valley, closer to North Scottsdale. From the few pictures I saw of their house when I was able to view their Facebook, it did pretty much look like that area, not Tempe.
 
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