AZ - Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, 26 Dec 2009 - last seen in Texas - #15

b4e said:

If EJ did the unthinkable, I wonder if she wanted revenge on Tammi (for trying to control her) as much as she wanted revenge on LM...?

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AND.... she did say 'kiss my *advertiser censored* SUCKAS" in the plural

not "kiss my *advertiser censored* SUCKA" in the singular

makes one think

time said:

Well, this is how I see it. Maybe no one sees strong evidence that Gabriel is alive, but it doesn't appear there is any strong evidence he isn't either. Unless someone confesses, LE finds some evidence to suggest he is dead, or something else drastic is announced, I just don't see any reason to think he is gone and will still keep thinking he is alive.

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I forget, has LE searched the landfill or not? My understanding was that they know the general location of where the trucks took their load, but they havn't even sent in the dogs yet. Why? They must have a real lead on something. It's been too quiet! Something is going on, I just hope they've really come across the right lead. Could it be from the library/lobby computers EJ used, the GPS? The camera and possible missing photos from it that she may have emailed someone on those computers with?

Who might TS have know, that would have been so incredibly desperate for a child that they would do this. Maybe even TS was convinced that LM was an unfit father and that is why she worked so hard to help EJ...albeit wanting GJ for herself. But, when she realized she could not have him, maybe she did contact this person and make arrangements. From there, who knows where they could have gone. Maybe the mystery couple has a bungalo in Mexico, or a few acres and a doublewide in TX? Maybe, after this was suppose to all blow over, this good friend of TS was going to send her money, that she would then divvy out to EJ? I dunno. Or maybe TS was going to pay EJ herself when she got her new identity set up and things cooled down.

DairyGirl said:

I know she was upset that LM didn't want to deal with her anymore and took it out of her control by filing for custody. As far as her not wanting the baby but not wanting anyone else to have him, I think she didn't want the baby but wanted to control who got him. He was HER baby and she would control who had him and the Smiths were kissing her a$$ and LM wasn't.

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Bolded by me... all the more to not want the baby.. and then he dumps her.. I was 18.. the very first time I had sex got pregnant got dumped... was I thrilled HELL NO! did I have the baby yes and he passed away at 11 1/2 months old. to me this is one woman that never cared never worried and honestly not to many people really did till he went missing... at that age.. did I want my babies daddy to still kiss my *advertiser censored*, Hell yeah, even though it was huge.. when he did I declined him.. but I can honestly see EJ's situation for the simple fact I would want being the daddy LM to kiss my *advertiser censored* before the smiths would.. But i also would not sell, adopt out, or kill my child.

BeanE said:

I did say that Tammi helped. She aided and abetted. The false paternity/cousin thing, for example. No doubts.

Tammi was mighty helpful to Elizabeth in effecting her plan. That's why Elizabeth let her into her life. She was useful. And when she was no longer useful, she cut her out of her life.

Why did Eliz want to talk to Tammi from jail? "I just wanted to see what was going on."

I know I'm in the minority. I have to have a story to what happened that's based on the known facts, logical, reasonable, and 'fits' for/to me. May be utterly ridiculous to everyone else, but I need something that works for me, so I know where to look for Gabriel.

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IMO that phone call was completely leading, controlled by TS -- not to mention JS and the reporter were present and questioning her too -- 3 experienced older adults both questioning her and leading her answers-- giving her the answers to their questions a couple times at least --IMO

and finally TS says there's less than 30 seconds left on this call-- was there was something you wanted to talk to me about?

What can she possibly say in 30 seconds?

so she answered ''ah nothing-- I just wanted to see what was going on" somewhat defeatedly IMO

This interview is hinky and seemingly scripted - both EJ and TS call Gabriel 'the baby' and use a lot of the same language

http://www.kpho.com/video/22155911/index.html

All IMO of course

kissdegirl said:

I forget, has LE searched the landfill or not? My understanding was that they know the general location of where the trucks took their load, but they havn't even sent in the dogs yet. Why? They must have a real lead on something. It's been too quiet! Something is going on, I just hope they've really come across the right lead. Could it be from the library/lobby computers EJ used, the GPS? The camera and possible missing photos from it that she may have emailed someone on those computers with?

Who might TS have know, that would have been so incredibly desperate for a child that they would do this. Maybe even TS was convinced that LM was an unfit father and that is why she worked so hard to help EJ...albeit wanting GJ for herself. But, when she realized she could not have him, maybe she did contact this person and make arrangements. From there, who knows where they could have gone. Maybe the mystery couple has a bungalo in Mexico, or a few acres and a doublewide in TX? Maybe, after this was suppose to all blow over, this good friend of TS was going to send her money, that she would then divvy out to EJ? I dunno. Or maybe TS was going to pay EJ herself when she got her new identity set up and things cooled down.

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All good points.

And if the use of "suckas" in the plural was meant to include the Smiths, maybe that was EJ's way of showing them how proud she was (in a smug and defiant way) of herself for arranging an adoptive couple without their help or knowledge. Could have happened. Calling them "suckas" might have also been a rub if the Smiths had given her substantial funds to "get out of town" just until they "handled Logan".

Instead, she got out of town and kept going with her "underground funds" (really from the Smiths themselves) and then got more funds somehow from the adoptive parents.

kissdegirl said:

I forget, has LE searched the landfill or not? My understanding was that they know the general location of where the trucks took their load, but they havn't even sent in the dogs yet. Why? They must have a real lead on something. It's been too quiet! Something is going on, I just hope they've really come across the right lead. Could it be from the library/lobby computers EJ used, the GPS? The camera and possible missing photos from it that she may have emailed someone on those computers with?

Who might TS have know, that would have been so incredibly desperate for a child that they would do this. Maybe even TS was convinced that LM was an unfit father and that is why she worked so hard to help EJ...albeit wanting GJ for herself. But, when she realized she could not have him, maybe she did contact this person and make arrangements. From there, who knows where they could have gone. Maybe the mystery couple has a bungalo in Mexico, or a few acres and a doublewide in TX? Maybe, after this was suppose to all blow over, this good friend of TS was going to send her money, that she would then divvy out to EJ? I dunno. Or maybe TS was going to pay EJ herself when she got her new identity set up and things cooled down.

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I don't think they have searched it that we know of. I'm sure they know much more than we do. I actually think they have been pretty tight lipped, but trying to tell a few things to straighten out any lies or misconceptions.

I guess the one thing that makes me think Tammi hooked her up with someone else or had someone go pick up Gabriel is that she has tons of connections - adoption folks, Church Mission people, etc. I don't want to offend any one here, but I still believe there are people out there who are a bit self-righteous about this adoption business or maybe just selfish. I could term it many different ways, but they are ready to take these kids because they think they are giving them a better life (probably more apt to take babies). They do work on the mothers and make them think they are doing the honorable thing, I think mothers who are young and more desperate and where it appears the father is not around or wouldn't fight or be able to fight are targets. I don't find it difficult to believe at all that someone like this would help hide Gabriel or that Tammi would have contact with people who would. Yes, they would most likely keep quiet. And, most likely they could keep a baby hidden until no one would recognize him or her. Look at the people on Tammi's facebook who have made comments saying stuff about the baby should be returned to the Smith's (most were earlier on), at the people who didn't really care to know anything about the father, who are giving the Smith's sympathy. Plus, she advertised Gabriel around before he came up missing - proclaiming he was H's new brother and so on. Now they are saying they wouldn't lose their business over all this and only had him for 8 days. Can any of you fathom your own friends would be like this?

OneLove said:

All good points.

And if the use of "suckas" in the plural was meant to include the Smiths, maybe that was EJ's way of showing them how proud she was (in a smug and defiant way) of herself for arranging an adoptive couple without their help or knowledge. Could have happened. Calling them "suckas" might have also been a rub if the Smiths had given her substantial funds to "get out of town" just until they "handled Logan".

Instead, she got out of town and kept going with her "underground funds" (really from the Smiths themselves) and then got more funds somehow from the adoptive parents.

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On the other hand... I'm not so sure this isn't just slang for something that means a lot less. Did LE verify that was Elizabeth that updated that status on Dec 29th - I'm sure it was just a loose end. Also, what about her signing in on Dec 30th?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sukaz

I have just heard a lot of teenagers use this term with their friends

Back and glad to see you all still here for Gabriel! As I have said, I wonder if TS and EJ had early connections; am concerrned about the church angle; Very Curious about- did TS have any access to EJs passwords, phone, email accounts, Just In Case she was setting up a quick takeover of Gabe. She could have said I will take care of it.
Maybe it is pie-in-the-sky to keep hoping Gabe is out there laughing? Nevertheless. I think TS is in something deep. She owed 4K for a TN Medical Board fine for acting as a medical person. Even the place next to the Motels,the International Colon Hydrotherapy Association, had been warned by the FDA about their practices, in 2003. TS looks like a lady who will skirt the law for a buck, even involving procedures that are not approved for use on OTHER PEOPLES BODIES. I have medical exp. and would never perform anything causing possible harm to others, neither will I come here and claim to be a Doctor-I am not. Therefore; I question her regard for human well-being in general. And, she has so many names and websites going, just creeps me out, and I think taking a baby would not be as shocking to her ilk. MOO.

PercyVeer said:

Back and glad to see you all still here for Gabriel! As I have said, I wonder if TS and EJ had early connections; am concerrned about the church angle; Very Curious about- did TS have any access to EJs passwords, phone, email accounts, Just In Case she was setting up a quick takeover of Gabe. She could have said I will take care of it.
Maybe it is pie-in-the-sky to keep hoping Gabe is out there laughing? Nevertheless. I think TS is in something deep. She owed 4K for a TN Medical Board fine for acting as a medical person. Even the place next to the Motels,the International Colon Hydrotherapy Association, had been warned by the FDA about their practices, in 2003. TS looks like a lady who will skirt the law for a buck, even involving procedures that are not approved for use on OTHER PEOPLES BODIES. I have medical exp. and would never perform anything causing possible harm to others, neither will I come here and claim to be a Doctor-I am not. Therefore; I question her regard for human well-being in general. And, she has so many names and websites going, just creeps me out, and I think taking a baby would not be as shocking to her ilk. MOO.

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Good post PV. It made me laugh, but yeah it's no laughing matter. I wonder how many folks are now wondering about letting her invade their most inner sanctums :yuck:

Someone on another board was wondering if because of her background she might have encouraged Elizabeth to go off her meds - maybe even encouraged her to be healed with a colonic. I guess that's an interesting question.

I think there is a lot we don't know - maybe you are right about emails, passwords, phone, email.

All I know is there appears to be missing pieces here that must explain what went on.

SallyManda said:

Yes, You can download maps into them. I haven't used the car GPS systems that often but I've used handhelds a lot in my job. My phone has a GPS application I use in the car if I ever need directions.

I would think she would have used a standard made specifically for a car-type GPS. Think Tom-Tom or something like that. I think most of those come stocked with maps. Im not sure if those would record your location or not. They aren't like regular handheld GPS units which you can mark points or look at your tracks.

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I came back to respond to Time, but found that you basically posted what I was going to post, except that TS said it was a Garmin
(so little as that may mean that is all I have to go with) --
here's a link
https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=13432#nuvi205w

This is what I assumed EJ would have had -- a portable GPS navigation system, cheap with preloaded maps

It does tell you your speed and location if it is turned on, but I do not know how much it stores other than what you program into it (searching for a location) IDK as I am no expert just a frustrated user :blushing:

Thanks Prof... I tried to search if the Garmin's would have info on them that was saved/stored about where someone has driven, mileage, etc. and I couldn't find any answer.

I am very tired and about to go to bed, and I am having a mind blank
I remember being taken aback by JS' casual statement about someone keeping Gabriel under the radar until he could be "filtered back into the system" -- I think he said this to EJ on that phone call while she was in jail in Florida, but I could be wrong
Anyway, there was another person involved in this case somehow who used almost the exact same wording as JS did about Gabriel being hidden until he could be filtered back into the system-- does anyone else remember this?

TIA
Goodnight, hoping that Gabriel will be returned before the first vigil

time said:

Thanks Prof... I tried to search if the Garmin's would have info on them that was saved/stored about where someone has driven, mileage, etc. and I couldn't find any answer.

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They do have a memory-- definately more than I do at the moment--
I wish I could access previous mileage, speed etc --that would be cool
night!

Prof said:

I am very tired and about to go to bed, and I am having a mind blank
I remember being taken aback by JS' casual statement about someone keeping Gabriel under the radar until he could be "filtered back into the system" -- I think he said this to EJ on that phone call while she was in jail in Florida, but I could be wrong
Anyway, there was another person involved in this case somehow who used almost the exact same wording as JS did about Gabriel being hidden until he could be filtered back into the system-- does anyone else remember this?

TIA
Goodnight, hoping that Gabriel will be returned before the first vigil

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I believe this is Jack's statement in that interview

Jack: but, but I think it's important that you understand, because you haven't, like you're not getting this picture, that if, if these people were to somehow be to keep him in seclusion for the, a, until he's past the certain age that he's allowed to sort of filter back into the system, you understand that you will be charged with this? Because if they can't find the baby...

TPS: For murder.

Jack: If you know any way, any way that you can identify either where these people...

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http://www.kpho.com/video/22155911/index.html

I'm certain someone else said something like this too but I can't remember who or if they were referencing Jack's comment or not.

Prof said:

I am very tired and about to go to bed, and I am having a mind blank
I remember being taken aback by JS' casual statement about someone keeping Gabriel under the radar until he could be "filtered back into the system" -- I think he said this to EJ on that phone call while she was in jail in Florida, but I could be wrong
Anyway, there was another person involved in this case somehow who used almost the exact same wording as JS did about Gabriel being hidden until he could be filtered back into the system-- does anyone else remember this?

TIA
Goodnight, hoping that Gabriel will be returned before the first vigil

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Smith said, "They're telling her that this baby in two to three years won't be able to be recognized? Maybe they're going to stay in hiding for a while until they think it's time to come out."

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http://www.kpho.com/news/22227955/detail.html

Was this what you were thinking of?

The paternal family of a missing 8-month-old Tempe boy is holding a candlelight vigil for him in a Scottsdale park on Sunday.

The family of Logan McQueary, the father of Gabriel Johnson, who has been missing since Dec. 26, is inviting the public to the vigil in honor of Gabriel at 6 p.m. Sunday at Chaparral Park. The park is at 5401 N. Hayden Road, and the vigil will be held at the south soccer field.
http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/149779

I am fairly new to this site, I have not spoken yet, I am wondering about tps and js, how they got hannah, I have read that the father who is the step-son of js, has said he was never notified that tps and js had gone to court, and that they tps and js had manupulated the system, my gut feeling on this is that tps and js are involved in this more than we know right now, I do believe the truth will come out.

OneLove said:

AND.... she did say 'kiss my *advertiser censored* SUCKAS" in the plural

not "kiss my *advertiser censored* SUCKA" in the singular

makes one think

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That, to me, says "to anybody, everybody, all of you, if you thought you were running the show, if you thought you had any influence on me or what I was doing, if you thought I was going to do something else... I got you"

:cow:

Prof said:

IMO that phone call was completely leading, controlled by TS -- not to mention JS and the reporter were present and questioning her too -- 3 experienced older adults both questioning her and leading her answers-- giving her the answers to their questions a couple times at least --IMO

and finally TS says there's less than 30 seconds left on this call-- was there was something you wanted to talk to me about?

What can she possibly say in 30 seconds?

so she answered ''ah nothing-- I just wanted to see what was going on" somewhat defeatedly IMO

This interview is hinky and seemingly scripted - both EJ and TS call Gabriel 'the baby' and use a lot of the same language

http://www.kpho.com/video/22155911/index.html

All IMO of course

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I disagree Tammi was in control. She may have been trying to control the conversation, but it didn't. Eliz is open to suggestions - sociopaths look for cues on how to talk, act, pretend to feel and think.

On using the same language, from all the interviews of Tammi, we know the language is hers, e.g., 'commended', 'ugly'. Eliz was doing what sociopaths do - watching others to try to figure out the appropriate way to act & feel, and mimicking. Unfortunately, she got it wrong, that is, people don't feel it's okay to give away one's baby illegally to strangers.

If Tammi was in control, and eliz was just the puppet, Eliz would have been angry with Tammi, saying things like "Hey! You told me all this was okay. Why am I in jail? Now look at this mess. Get me outta here, b**ch! Why did you tell me to do this, that, and the other thing? Get me a lawyer! Get me out of here! I'm not going down for stuff you told me to do!"

But Eliz didn't say one single peep. That's because she acted on her own. She just used Tammi for Tammi's knowledge of illegal ways to sever Logan's parental rights, as well as Tammi's willingness to be a cheerleader for doing illegal and immoral things, and to feed into Eliz's rationalization of her own actions.

They were a very dangerous combination.

:cow:

not_my_kids said:

The paternal family of a missing 8-month-old Tempe boy is holding a candlelight vigil for him in a Scottsdale park on Sunday.

The family of Logan McQueary, the father of Gabriel Johnson, who has been missing since Dec. 26, is inviting the public to the vigil in honor of Gabriel at 6 p.m. Sunday at Chaparral Park. The park is at 5401 N. Hayden Road, and the vigil will be held at the south soccer field.
http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/149779

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Does anyone else wonder if the Smiths will show up and try to grab the spotlight? I so hope Logan's people are prepared for this - prepared to escort the Smiths out.