WA - Lindsey Baum, 10, McCleary, 26 June 2009 - #17

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TakeNote, while I agree it needs to be addressed I don't think the press conference yesterday was the place to bring up what happened on Saturday.
There are other ways to cross that bridge that won't make anyone angry. ;)
 
Lindsey and friends were on the video store's surveillance camera at 8:19 pm that night, correct? Which other friends were there with Lindsey?

Who reported that Lindsey and MK then went to the Baum home, Lindsey bathed, re-dressed, and left again with MK, and Josh, and bike to head to KK's?

Who said the girls wanted to stay at Lindsey's?

Who said the girls wanted to stay at MK's?

Did Lindsey have her cell phone with her earlier that day? While swimming? Or at the video store?

Was Josh at the video store too? Was Josh swimming with them earlier?

If Josh was at the video store and/or swimming with them, did he have his bike then?

Did Melissa confirm that Josh, MK, and Lindsey were at the Baum home just before they walked to Kara's? Or did that just come from KK through MK?

We need to look at what we know for absolute sure:
1. Lindsey was at the video store at 8:19 pm
2. Lindsey was seen by Rena 3 or 4 houses east of Kara's at ____ pm?
3. Lindsey was seen by _______ between 6th and 5th on Maple at _____ pm?
4. Melissa called the police to report Lindsey missing at 10:45-10:50 pm

I don't know how this helps; I am just trying to go back through it all again. Here's a question.... What was Lindsey wearing in the video store surveillance? Is it the same thing she was reported to be wearing by both witnesses who saw her?
 
After being involved with this over the past few months I can say it's the media.. not the stories changing by MB or KK or anyone else.

The timeline that the LE has is far more accurate than what the media has put out there. Like I said they don't worry about details, they worry about getting just enough info out there to keep the viewers watching.
Tv is all about the ratings and the money they can make... not accurate reporting.

this is where it gets hard....we do not know for fact that there were no inconsistencies to anyone stories....im not only talking about the family and friends....but to anyone that LE or FBI have questioned....

the undersheriff said....http://www.nwcn.com/video?id=82827387&sec=551977

*the investigation has remained completely comprehensive, nothing has been ruled out, exclusively*

*because we have not been able to find that one piece of information yet , that conclusive puts us on that one path*

i tried to type out what the undersheriff said.....i do know the media mix's things up......:)
 
TakeNote, while I agree it needs to be addressed I don't think the press conference yesterday was the place to bring up what happened on Saturday.
There are other ways to cross that bridge that won't make anyone angry. ;)

i would think ruffling some feathers would be a good thing....people in wa state need to know what and how our gov is treating the missing....the media is a great way to get the word out there....but i understand...what you are saying...you all must be up to something :) if it was me...i would be knocking on her door :dance:

:hug:
 
i would think ruffling some feathers would be a good thing....people in wa state need to know what and how our gov is treating the missing....the media is a great way to get the word out there....but i understand...what you are saying...you all must be up to something :) if it was me...i would be knocking on her door :dance:

:hug:

I couldn't get past the iron gates at the end of her drive way in order to knock on her door. :(
 
I agree! The news pressor appeared serious, to the point, & revealing! I noticed the assistant agent's aloof confidence in wanting to get the message out to all citizens in McCleary and those surrounding the case. The feds within the behavioral science unit have studied psycholinguistics and know just how to make a presentation with meaning without saying anything that would be detrimental to the case. O/T but the new asst. agent reminds me of Max Hedron. Turn the sound off and watch this gentleman's mannerisms. This pressor seemed well planned to make an impact to who ever was listening. With all the LE who have been working Lindsey's case standing in solidarity also appeared to make a made a non-verbal statement. I was taken aback when this agent referred to Melissa as, "Lindsey's mother" instead of her proper name. My understanding is these agents word there media moments very carefully. The only people in the room that seemed to have some high anxiety appeared to be KK & the mother of Lindsey. Maybe their eyes looking more open than I'v ever seen in media interviews was from the adrenlin of being happy that a more extensive investigation will be provided.

Some of the direction of the case may be, "Confirming that all agencies, policies, & procedure are observed. The agent also must ensure that the rules & regulations of a professional LE organization are followed & adhered to. Agents must review this regularly to make sure all are in complience" The agent/agents make sure effective interviewing strategies were conducted prior to interviews with the family members of the missing child. "A verification process of all details developed during the preliminary investigation. Agent must be alert to facts or statements that conflict with those from the first investigation. It has been said that the agents do a, "brief history of recent family dynamics from neighbors, family members, classmates, employers, co-workers, doctors, social serv. agencies that provide records of family contact maintained by LE agencies, schools & other organizations." Agents will explore the basis for conflicting information. Last (there is more) Monitor Media relations. Investigators should review all notices prior to release to ensure that the investigations objectives are not unintentially compromised for Lindsey's safe recovery or return. "Media needs to be managed in a way that compliments the investigation rather than conflicting with the investigation." This is just a few avenues that take place.

I would say that the agents have their work cut out for them. Look at what has been sluthed all ready! Locals keep us sluthers informed! It will be interesting to hear the communities response to this firm pressor.

"Hoap Floats" once again.:dance:

Thank you for the post kagey, it sure helps to understand how they will go forward and investigate. Sounds like they will be pretty thorough in this process and hopefully all will be looked at. I think they did a wonderful job with presentation. I have to agree with seeing all LE standing in unity shows the strength of the team. Even the way they dress makes a statements. It was good to see.

I can imagine MB and KK where very nervous and excited about having the FBI and LE working along with the CARD team to locate Lindsey. I probably would be very nervous being in front of the media and worried how to make a statement, so that if Lindsey was listening she would know she is missed and people are looking for her.
 
Thank you for the post kagey, it sure helps to understand how they will go forward and investigate. Sounds like they will be pretty thorough in this process and hopefully all will be looked at. I think they did a wonderful job with presentation. I have to agree with seeing all LE standing in unity shows the strength of the team. Even the way they dress makes a statements. It was good to see.

I can imagine MB and KK where very nervous and excited about having the FBI and LE working along with the CARD team to locate Lindsey. I probably would be very nervous being in front of the media and worried how to make a statement, so that if Lindsey was listening she would know she is missed and people are looking for her.
From my understanding of an investigation requiring this specialized team is nothing is discounted, behaviors are watched (including those little micro expressions we do unconsciously, like the rubbing of eyes, constant blinking, scrunching of nose, wipeing tearless tears away. I caught the mother and her friend expressing what seemed to be a few of these mannerisms. This may have stuck out because everyone else in the room was seriously stoic. I'm thinking when the FBI came back to work the Fri. after Christmas much team work has been shared over this past month between investigators. Now that the team held a pressor to let citizens know what to expect an the agents will critique all media before release. " this is no fooling around" :dance:
 
Snipped from the timeline thread:

Expert: Missing girl likely went with someone she knew
09:58 PM PDT on Wednesday, July 1, 2009
"Based on the information I have, it’s someone she possibly knows or is in the area, not outside the area," said Henry Schmidt, with the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. Investigators say both Lindsey's mom and the father of the friend at the home where Lindsey had just left have both voluntarily taken - and passed - polygraph tests, and they are not considered suspects.

Why do you think Scott voluntarily took a polygraph? Did Kara take one? Was she asked to, or did she volunteer to?

ETA: The reason I ask is because I was discussing this with hubby and it seems weird to us both if one of them volunteered to take a poly, wouldn't the other? Why would one and not the other?
 
He also stated that "new investigators" [will] "even question the motive of previous investigators". Does that include previous searchers? Wow. Have the new investigators questioned the tactics of previous investigators? Did previous investigators NOT interview certain townsfolk based on the townsfolk' friendship / position in the community or were certain individuals targeted and not others because of applied bias or were certain properties or houses not searched?

Hopefully, the renewed interest will cause some outward discomfort in the person who is responsible for Lindsey's disappearance and someone close to him will notice it. This new investigation may also show some discrepancies in some of the previous interviews. The assistance of the FBI team is such a positive development. This team won't be afraid to question anyone and that's a really good thing.
 
*What if* MK was not with Lindsey and Josh on their walk from the Baum home to the Kampen home? Could a witness be mistaken about Lindsey being alone on her way back home - rather she was actually on her way to the Kampen home after Josh went home?

Something else I am thinking about after re-reading a lot of this - MB stated she did not intend for Lindsey to be walking back home alone - that she would be with MK (for sleepover). But what about Josh - weren't her intentions that she would also be walking back home with Josh?
 
i feel for you....i have been trying to re-read the first 3 threads we have on Lindsey...its driving me crazy!!

:hug:

it all just doesnt make since.....she just went *poof* ...the witness see her...then she is gone.....like right when the person drove by......but yet...that person didnt see anyone else on the street?? or any other car driving by?.....it doesnt add up

i feel like....either...

someone living right there on that street grabbed her ....but no screaming?

or

she made it home and something happend (she could have been abducted right infront of her house) (someone she new was waiting for her, she got into the car and took off)

could momb have been out with someone that night.....and as she was getting dropped off, they see Lindsey walking up and pick up Lindsey for some reason?

ok...this is a big if.....but if JB had anything to do with Lindsey being gone.....momb took and passed a polly....so who else could have helped JB hide lindsey?

sorry i hate to throw that out there....but those are my thoughts as of tonight.....

:hug:
 
More unanswered questions.....If MB and KK's boyfriend passed a polygraph, could KK be avoiding her turn to protect the minors who last saw Lindsey? What kind of car was KK driving around in and did witnesses see this car? Who is protecting who if the timelines are false?


...Maybe someone can find out more from GHC Clerk about the "juvi" posts here?......No star by " Juvenile " to indicate as confidential.

Current case files (files that have not been completed or still have outstanding issues) are maintained at the Clerk's Office. Closed cases are stored at another facility. To view the file from storage you can submit a request, the file will be retrieved and available for viewing within three days.

Criminal
*Dependency
*Truancy
Juvenile
Civil · Dissolution
Probate
*Paternity
*Mental
*Adoption

* Indicates that files are confidential in nature and cannot be accessed without court order.
Home | County Departments | Search | Feedback | Internet Links

Grays Harbor County www.co.grays-harbor.wa.us


This a case against a JB on

///link to and copy of case text snipped///

When I posted this court file it was deleted by a moderator because it involved a minor. What's different now? :waitasec:
 
Did I read correctly on here that the Evergreen Christian Center Building is being torn down? Why?

We have a lot of excellent questions (from a particularly astute websleuth), from the beginning concerning someone affiliated with the Center that remain unanswered. We have not heard that this person has been cleared by the FBI. Most of you know who I am referring to. I will not name names because we are told not to. Those questions are still burning in my mind.
 
I have a general question that I can't find an answer to. When was CARD established? I remember posting at least 5 years ago, on another crime site, that a team (acronym) should be formed by the FBI with special agents, equipment, etc. to respond immediately when it was established someone was abducted.
 
Did I read correctly on here that the Evergreen Christian Center Building is being torn down? Why?

We have a lot of excellent questions (from a particularly astute websleuth), from the beginning concerning someone affiliated with the Center that remain unanswered. We have not heard that this person has been cleared by the FBI. Most of you know who I am referring to. I will not name names because we are told not to. Those questions are still burning in my mind.

Hmmm. I don't think that kind of major construction should be allowed unless that property has been fully searched and cleared.
 
it all just doesnt make since.....she just went *poof* ...the witness see her...then she is gone.....like right when the person drove by......but yet...that person didnt see anyone else on the street?? or any other car driving by?.....it doesnt add up

When reading what you wrote above, it makes me immediately think a couple scenarios...

1. Did that witness who last saw her between 5th & 6th have something to do her disappearence? Did she in fact make it to work that night?

2. Did Lindsey decide at that point (between 5th & 6th) to cut through the lot where the Mayor and JM's houses are and either:
A. head toward LN's house
B. go to the church to talk to someone or saw someone outside the church and stopped to talk

You have to wonder why JM's property was searched so many times - was her scent picked up there from cutting through that lot?
 

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From www.satsop.com, the retired nuclear plant near Elma....

SATSOP DEVELOPMENT PARK isn’t entirely unused. About 20 companies have an office in the site’s business park, according to Ratcliff.

In what was supposed to be a security building for the nuclear plant, rows of mini-lockers store computer servers for various companies.

“All the Internet traffic in Grays Harbor County goes through that building,” Ratcliff said of the site’s extensive fiber optic cable network.


Maybe their servers can trace internet use in McCleary around the disappearance timeline ?



Another question : Is this the Nelson household Lindsey may have been swimming at ? Would the person with a protection order be a threat to children ? Just another angle to ponder.....

Grays Harbor County Assessor's Office
Online Parcel Database
Assessment Information
Parcel 060501600700
Try our new
GeoData Mapping
Tool Situs Address 00221SMAIN
Legal Description PLT OF MCCLEARY LOT 7 BLK 16

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Owner NELSON LIBBY File Updated 1/29/2010 10:05
Address 221 S MAIN Location T 18 R 05 Sec 14
MCCLEARY , WA 98557



Superior Court Case Summary

Court: G H Co Superior
Case Number: 10-2-00013-1

Sub Docket Date Docket Code Docket Description Misc Info
1 01-06-2010 PTORPRT Pet Ord For Protection
2 01-06-2010 TMORPRT
ACTION Temp Ord For Protection
Order For Protection 01-19-2010H3
JDG0003 Judge F. Mark Mccauley
3 01-19-2010 HCNTPA Continued: Plaintiff/pros Requested
4 01-19-2010 ORRTPO
ACTION Ord Reissuing Temp Protection Order
Order For Protection * 02-01-2010H3
JDG0003 Judge F. Mark Mccauley
5 01-21-2010 RTS Return Of Service
6 01-27-2010 RTS
RSP0001 Return Of Service
Nelson, Kenneth Wesley

dw.courts.wa.gov

Kenneth W Nelson
home

221 S Main St

McCleary, WA 98557-9692

Age:45-49

Would KK avoid a polygraph to protect this person ?
Maybe McCleary should change it's name to Peyton Place...

Can a Protection Order be Obtained against a Minor (Under Eighteen)?
Only if the minor is at least sixteen (16) years old and involved in a dating relationship with the Petitioner, or if the minor is a spouse, former spouse, or the parent of a child you have in common. If you are seeking relief from abuse by a minor, you will probably be referred to the police to make a report of the abusive incident.

Can adults seeking protection ask that this protection extend to their minor children?
Yes. The Domestic Violence Protection Act states that "a person may petition for relief on behalf of himself or herself and (emphasis added) on behalf of minor family or household members."

What if a minor child is being abused, but the parent is not?
While a minor may not file a petition, an adult may file a petition on the minor's behalf. Often Child Protection Services (CPS) uses the Order for Protection as a referral for adults seeking protection for minor children. A parent alleging that a child has been abused by another family or household member must be prepared to substantiate these allegations. Hospital reports, affidavits or names of witnesses, the name of the CPS caseworker, etc., should be included in the petition, or presented at the full hearing.

Generally the court will reissue a Temporary Order for Protection when the Respondent is not served prior to the hearing on the full Order. The hearing is reset and the Temporary Order is reissued to permit more time for service on the Respondent.

A Petitioner who has a full Order for a fixed time period can ask the court to renew that Order. This is done by filing a Petition for Renewal at any time within three months before the Order expires.
 
Hi guyz. Any of the locals see an ice cream truck driving through the area during the summer? Just wondering. I remember a case, where an ice cream truck driver would offer treats to girls and to drive the truck in order to kidnap and rape.
 
Hi guyz. Any of the locals see an ice cream truck driving through the area during the summer? Just wondering. I remember a case, where an ice cream truck driver would offer treats to girls and to drive the truck in order to kidnap and rape.

Yes we do have a local women who drives around her own ice cream truck through out McCleary.
 
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