Fiber Analysis

Bobo said:

Harmony, I had the same exact thoughts last night. However, I was too tired to look up the info on JT and the beanie baby. Thank you for the effort!:blowkiss:

Although according to JT, he gave the toy to Caylee on June 9th, according to him Caylee really liked it. Perhaps it stayed in the Pontiac and Cindy never saw it?

Do we know the answer to the question Harmony posed about the Anthony neighbor finding a stuffed animal? i.e. what kind of stuffed animal was it?

Or, do we know what happened to the beanie baby JT supposedly gave Caylee? Has it ever surfaced?

And, please help refresh my memory: How do we know it was a "Tazmanian Devil?" (That's what I thought, too -- I just don't know how I "know" that. I mean, was that in JT's statement, or what?)

Click to expand...

I looked through my notes. It was a 'Taz' stuffed animal found down the street from the Anthony's. It is mentioned in the following single post by Hotdog:

(Note: the attachment in her post)

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4227937&postcount=7"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Stuffed animal "Taz" a.k.a. Techbay "Beanie Baby"?[/ame]



There is discussion about the Techbay toy here:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4227937#post4227937"]Stuffed animal "Taz" a.k.a. Techbay "Beanie Baby"? - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

I did not reread the thread so I am not sure if it was just speculation about the Taz toy being the toy JT gave Caylee or if that was what he actually gave her.

The stuffed animal listed in the evidence is in the following link, according to my notes, but the link does not work for me. Hopefully, it will work for others:

page 3230 or page 15 mentions stuffed animal found
http://www.wftv.com/news/18530350/detail.html

I thought we figured out a while back that the "l" and "d" signified the direction of the twist of the fibers.

AZlawyer said:

I thought we figured out a while back that the "l" and "d" signified the direction of the twist of the fibers.

Click to expand...

I trust ya! Works for me!

I realize many of us know A LOT of what is included already. Hopefully this will help as a quick resource guide for the basics.

I made a promise in the duct tape thread bang and that promise included referencing some fiber analysis. So, to keep both threads on topic, I am posting some fiber resource links here.

I'm gonna go ahead and post what I have, otherwise it might be the week before trial before I complete this mission. :crazy: This truly is a work in progress, so it is by no means complete. I welcome any and all input, just please cite source and page #'s. I quickly discovered that I had to narrow it down to sleuthing the following:

(1) the Duct Tape found on the remains and at the scene: Q62, Q63, Q64 and Q104
(2) several items submitted to the ME and FBI containing hair/fiber evidence.

There is certainly more out there (e.g., including, but not limited to, items seized from the Pontiac and Anthony residence), but hopefully this will serve as a starting point as a resource.

When I said I was gonna do this, I had NO CLUE what I was getting myself into. :bang: There are many things I would have done differently now that I know better - there are duplicates, docs from the ME, LE, TEU, FBI, and other agencies. I wish I had taken better notes in re. pg. #'s citing exactly where I got each bit of info, but it is ALL contained in 1,405 pg. doc linked link below. I have referenced many pg. #'s, but not all of them. Sorry, but I swear to ya I didn't make a single one of 'em up. :angel: Feel free to dive on in 'cause I welcome any & all input and want to edit as we find them, so PLEASE post or pm me and I will gladly add any more pg.#'s and/or links.

• 
  Fibers: pink, light pink, yellow, green, light green, and purple stripes; elastic waist; Circo 24 mos; 100% cotton
  • Hair: Caucasian hair fragments, fringe hair
  • Photos pp. 700-703; info p. 753
  

• 
  Clothing: letters, stitching, stretch material
  • Fabric: Item consists of several pieces of fabric: piece of white fabric = ~4”x6” w/ an attached strip of purple fabric = ~9.5”x1”; pink & white border/strap (?); size 3T; 100% cotton
  • White fabric w/ sparkles and pink reverse side comes in letters “B” “I” “G” “T” “ROUB” “L” “E” “C” “OMES” “ SMALL”
  • Fibers: KN: Off-white cotton, purple(d), off-white(d), pink(d)
  ​
  MTFVTC including: black cotton, black (d), red(l)
  • Hair: Caucasian head hairs, light brown-reddish brown, no roots, 2” (like Q59)
  • Photos pp. 704-709; info p. 691 and p. 753

• 
  appears white w/ faded pattern of Winnie-the-Pooh and Piglet
  • Fibers: off white, light brown
  • Size: 38” x 28”
  • Hairs: Caucasian head hairs, light brown-reddish brown, no roots, some apparent decomp roots (like Q59), fringe hairs, hair fragments
  • Photos pp. 710-711

• "Whitney Design"
  • Fibers: KN: off-white(d), off-white(ld) course; MTFVTC including: black cotton, off-white(d), off-white (slightly pink) (d)
  • Hair: Caucasian fringe hairs, hair fragments, very fine, light brown, no roots
  • Photo pp. 714-715; info p. 753
  

ALL info relates back to the pdf linked below:

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21252257/detail.html



Link to the duct tape post for cross-reference

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5198679&postcount=654"]http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5198679&postcount=654[/ame]



Bond: Blue Moon and throw in a couple of oranges, please.

beach2yall said:

Bobo, BIG THANKS to posting the idea last night and KUDOS to Harmony for thinking of Taz!! :clap: :clap:

The only thing that gives me pause, is I'm pretty sure the Beanie Babies are made out of some type of poly or combo of poly/cotton. Maybe someone could look up the make-up/content of Beanie Babies, including the eyes/nose, etc....

Click to expand...

Staying on-topic here, I hope. The fibers one might find in a plush toy is probably a wide range of materials and cost factors.

I will inquire of my toy company executive friend (who also is quite knowledgeable about the TY *real* Beanie Babies) who deals with all everything from manufacture, marketing, licensing.

When I have something concrete to report regarding fiber info, I'll post it.

magic-cat said:

So this might be a good place to discuss the blue dress from the Fusion pictures that has never appeared as having been taken into evidence in ANY documents we have seen thus far? That dress certainly appeared to be cotton and it was definitely blue but not light blue as one of the fibers is referenced as. Hmmm...wonder if the dress was IN the trunk and she had to dispose of it somewhere else or if they DO have the dress and just have not told us about it yet? Where IS that blasted dress???!!!

Thanks for the thread Beane-another great idea from the Bean!!!

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I must be missing something. Why would they want to take the blue dress into evidence? I thought they only take the clothes a person was wearing during a murder for evidence. She probably didn't have that dress on when she murdered Caylee. It seems like they would want what she was wearing the night of Father's Day and what she had on the next day and night.

Her dress is probably hanging in her closet at the Anthonys.

Bobo said:

Well, for what it's worth, it seems like the "l's" are identified as to the thread type (cotton, wool, poly) and the "d's" are not identified as to thread type.

Still scratching my head on the MTFVTC :waitasec:

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I think MTFVTC stands for "Manufactured Textile Fabric Various Types and Colors" -- I think.

Curious Me said:

Astounded to find out how intriquing this fiber analysis is!

Yes, in the Blockbuster pics it does look like she may have taken one of her tank tops off. I never noticed how strange the white triangle scarf on her head looked. Why'd she go with that look? Anyways, one of the tank tops looks light blue.

The blue dress doesn't look like cotton to me.

I'm very hopeful there could be good evidence within the fibers found.

Click to expand...

snipped by me

thanks for bumping up this fibers thread you guys, I hadn't read this one before though I've always been interested in the fibers.

I always wondered why we never heard anything about LE taking in Tony and Casey's clothes seen in the Blockbuster video, never saw any references to those, labwork etc. (as discussed on the Blockbuster video thread.)

Her clothes in that video looked unusual, large, like guys' sport clothes. The white head scarf too, as you mentioned. Interesting.

I really hope there will be useful fiber evidence, too.

Imbackon said:

When they first walk in, are there 2 or 3 people? If it is only 2, then it looks like Casey (at the rear) lifts something over her head? Perhaps removing her shirt.
This may sound OT but is not, as I want to know what clothes entered Blockbuster with as well as what clothes she left Blockbuster with, because I am not so sure they are the same.
Thanks

Click to expand...

Good catch, Imbackon! I never noticed (or at least didn't remember) about her taking off a shirt on the way in. Is she still carrying the shirt on the way out? I need to go look again.

Bobbisangel said:

I must be missing something. Why would they want to take the blue dress into evidence? I thought they only take the clothes a person was wearing during a murder for evidence. She probably didn't have that dress on when she murdered Caylee. It seems like they would want what she was wearing the night of Father's Day and what she had on the next day and night.

Her dress is probably hanging in her closet at the Anthonys.

Click to expand...

I would think that the clothes she (and others) were wearing, especially during the dates that might fit in the entemologist's time line for example, would be of interest. Accounting for the clothing, having a look at the clothing in the lab, etc (at least to me they would be interesting). Not only clothing of course, any potential sources of fibers

beach2yall said:

As a cliff notes version, I just want to point out that I find it very telling that all pieces of duct tape removed by the ME from Caylee's skull - Q62, Q63 and Q64 ALL contained the exact same 2 fibers: only black wool & blue cotton were present and head hair was found on all 3 pieces.

In contrast, many various fibers were removed from Q104 - the only one in common with the above mentioned is blue cotton and no head hair was present, only fringe hairs.

That makes me feel pretty confident in surmising that Q104 was never placed on on Caylee's face. It is totally different, even in that it was found away from the body. So, even if one doesn't go along with the arms/hands scenario, I think it had to be placed somewhere else other than her face. jmho.

Most curious to me is the black wool fibers. Some way, some how - either Caylee's face and/or the 3 pieces of duct tape found on her skull came in contact with fabric containing black wool. The only place I am positive I have seen black wool referenced is on Q62, Q63, & Q64. (That is not to say black wool is not found somewhere else in the docs. In fact, as Harmony pointed out - I, too, believe I read where one of the labs found evidence of it on the paper towels/napkins retrieved from the trash bag taken from TL's, found in the trunk at the impound lot and tossed into the dumpster. Although I tried to keep an eye out, my focus was limited to the duct tape and the items removed from the crime scene.)

I want to know more about the plaid blanket. Has it just 'disappeared' completely??? Also, if anyone runs across the lab reports in re. the paper towels, please post the findings and page #.

Click to expand...

I know this sounds like an ot post - but I'm trying to visualize the fibers stuck to the duct tape. I just can't get past the "black wool" fibers in Florida! A coat? socks? pants? sweater? hat? I cannot imagine anyone living in Florida owning and wearing any of these items containing black wool. Wool is one of the warmest fibers and black is the hottest color to wear. In June and July with all of the humidity in that area - this has to be a blanket, a rug, etc. I am now thinking it would be much more difficult to get fibers from the nose of a stuffed animal (wool stitching) on all 3 pieces of tape. KC didn't have black lamb skin (wool) seat covers did she? Do have any verification the red fibers were wool or were they cotton?

beach2yall said:

As a cliff notes version, I just want to point out that I find it very telling that all pieces of duct tape removed by the ME from Caylee's skull - Q62, Q63 and Q64 ALL contained the exact same 2 fibers: only black wool & blue cotton were present and head hair was found on all 3 pieces.

In contrast, many various fibers were removed from Q104 - the only one in common with the above mentioned is blue cotton and no head hair was present, only fringe hairs.

That makes me feel pretty confident in surmising that Q104 was never placed on on Caylee's face. It is totally different, even in that it was found away from the body. So, even if one doesn't go along with the arms/hands scenario, I think it had to be placed somewhere else other than her face. jmho.

Most curious to me is the black wool fibers. Some way, some how - either Caylee's face and/or the 3 pieces of duct tape found on her skull came in contact with fabric containing black wool. The only place I am positive I have seen black wool referenced is on Q62, Q63, & Q64. (That is not to say black wool is not found somewhere else in the docs. In fact, as Harmony pointed out - I, too, believe I read where one of the labs found evidence of it on the paper towels/napkins retrieved from the trash bag taken from TL's, found in the trunk at the impound lot and tossed into the dumpster. Although I tried to keep an eye out, my focus was limited to the duct tape and the items removed from the crime scene.)

I want to know more about the plaid blanket. Has it just 'disappeared' completely??? Also, if anyone runs across the lab reports in re. the paper towels, please post the findings and page #.

Click to expand...

Hi Beach,

On page 9779:

ADDITIONAL ITEM FROM VEHICLE

Q248 Napkins (J-60085, Item 1, Q217)
Caucasian head hair portion, reddish brown, no root (not equal) Q59 (081213001) (Q hair darker)
MTFVTC including: blue cotton, red cotton, black cotton
black (d), off-white (d), purple (d), light orange (d), grey-green (d), blue (d)

JWG said:

Hi Beach,

On page 9779:

ADDITIONAL ITEM FROM VEHICLE

Q248 Napkins (J-60085, Item 1, Q217)
Caucasian head hair portion, reddish brown, no root (not equal) Q59 (081213001) (Q hair darker)
MTFVTC including: blue cotton, red cotton, black cotton
black (d), off-white (d), purple (d), light orange (d), grey-green (d), blue (d)

Click to expand...

THANK YOU!!! :blowkiss:

I knew I remembered the black and red....thanks for confirming no wool.

eta: the discovery pg. 9779 that JWG cited = pdf pg. 757,

AZlawyer said:

I thought we figured out a while back that the "l" and "d" signified the direction of the twist of the fibers.

Click to expand...

I've been poking around the FBI website and found a training manual for fiber examiners. In the appendix is this passage:I am leaning toward "l" meaning "lustered" and "d" meaning "de-lustered", but cannot prove it yet. I have not found a direct reference to MTFVTC as of yet. Supposedly there exists a TEU acronym manual, but I have not found that either.

Harmony2 said:

Interestingly, in the thread you bumped up Valhall's post #40 mentions (Q248) Napkins from trash bag in Casey's trunk had blue cotton, red cotton and black cotton "as contaminating fibers". These napkins also had the early grave wax or adipocere like substance on them. She does not give a link or page number. I assume it is from the 1405 pg doc. I have been skimming over the pages to locate a page #. It appears the blue, red and black fibers are similar to the ones found on the duct tapes.

Click to expand...

Keepin' my earlier promise to link you - JWG found it for us!


[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5201296&postcount=667"]http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5201296&postcount=667[/ame]

wenwe4 said:

I know this sounds like an ot post - but I'm trying to visualize the fibers stuck to the duct tape. I just can't get past the "black wool" fibers in Florida! A coat? socks? pants? sweater? hat? I cannot imagine anyone living in Florida owning and wearing any of these items containing black wool. Wool is one of the warmest fibers and black is the hottest color to wear. In June and July with all of the humidity in that area - this has to be a blanket, a rug, etc. I am now thinking it would be much more difficult to get fibers from the nose of a stuffed animal (wool stitching) on all 3 pieces of tape. KC didn't have black lamb skin (wool) seat covers did she? Do have any verification the red fibers were wool or were they cotton?

Click to expand...

bbm ~ I was thinking the same thing when I saw "wool".
Since the A's came from Ohio and wool lasts a long time, the first thing that came to my mind was one of those classic red/blk/off white (can have other colors) picnic blankets. They usually have fringe on them too which sheds fiber easily.

Awesome... thanks JWG and Beach for that info!!!!! :woohoo:

I have been thinking about all the fibers discovered on the evidence. I was wondering if the red plaid blanket could have been a cotton wool blend in the colors of the fibers found. I am not sure how the blanket would be made. Would some of the threads be made of cotton while others are made of wool? In a cotton wool blend are the two blended/twisted into one strand or thread?
I don't have the terminology to explain but I was wondering if it may account for the wool and cotton fibers that were found.


Here is an example of a cotton wool blend (red/black) plaid fabric.

http://www.etsy.com/listing/45581622/vintage-red-plaid-wool-or-cotton-wool

Harmony2 said:

Awesome... thanks JWG and Beach for that info!!!!! :woohoo:

I have been thinking about all the fibers discovered on the evidence. I was wondering if the red plaid blanket could have been a cotton wool blend in the colors of the fibers found. I am not sure how the blanket would be made. Would some of the threads be made of cotton while others are made of wool? In a cotton wool blend are the two blended/twisted into one strand or thread?
I don't have the terminology to explain but I was wondering if it may account for the wool and cotton fibers that were found.


Here is an example of a cotton wool blend (red/black) plaid fabric.

http://www.etsy.com/listing/45581622/vintage-red-plaid-wool-or-cotton-wool

Click to expand...

BBM

I was thinking about the same thing. Has that blanket just totally disappeared??? I mean CA can't explain it either?

eta: I don't know who the 'blended' fabrics are woven either.

FYI...

I launched a new thread re: "The Plaid Blanket" [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105072"]here[/ame].


HTH.

beach2yall said:

BBM

I was thinking about the same thing. Has that blanket just totally disappeared??? I mean CA can't explain it either?

eta: I don't know who the 'blended' fabrics are woven either.

Click to expand...

In the statement Cindy gave the SA it appeared, from what she said, that the red plaid blanket was missing or had been removed from the bin where it was usually located. (my interpretation)