OK OK - Jamison Family; Truck, IDs, money, & dog found abandoned, Oct 2009 - #3

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justthinkin said:
Haha, Little, I sat here last night studying each of those piles. The earth there is striated, and unfortunately they each matched up with those striations or fortunately which means you don't have to go smash them.
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Geez, jt, are you being a "party pooper?"

Seriously though, it makes my stomach turn when I think that maybe they could be buried underneath all that dirt!
 
little726 said:
Geez, jt, are you being a "party pooper?"

Seriously though, it makes my stomach turn when I think that maybe they could be buried underneath all that dirt!
Click to expand...

Yup, just call me Poopy. I don't think they're buried in any of those piles. I used the word striation to describe what I was seeing, but should have said sedimentary rock formations.

When looking at that slope, you can see how the earth changes color from top to bottom. Also, there are clearly some narrow horizontal line looking features in the dirt (dirt of another color) that continue across the face of that slope. No one could create a "dirt pile" that would match up to all the changes in color, nor could anyone dig one out, and replace the dirt. If either was done it would be obvious. We could look at the slope, and say, "Hmmm, that section doesn't match the rest of them."

That said, I'm still kind of curious about the dirt pile or berm that lay beside the Jamison's truck.
 
mtrooper said:
fuji140.jpg
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Ok, jt, what do you think about the piles just above the cap of the truck in this picture? The dirt looks fresh.
 
The slope was not so much terraced, but not straight up and down either. I think it could be climbed, but it would be too soft. I think you would have a collapse after each step. As far as the acid and such it is so hard to determine because of all the different factors. I think that would be difficult none the less very messy to try to do. I think there would also be evidence of the chemicals as well. As far as the hit men, I have no clue. I don't know of any other family disputes where someone went missing or turned up dead. we have the cellphone records but not pings. I think to "ping" a phone the company has to triangulate the signal, so it would have had to been done back in October. I also think that the route they took is pretty well mapped out by the GPS on their phone, and credit card charges made for gas and munchies. As far as the placement of the truck, it was facing DOWN hill as if it were leaving and stopped for some unknown reason. So the picture is taken from lower down on the driveway facing uphill. I am not sure of the elevation difference from the very bottom before you go up to the plateau or from the plateau up to the top of the bluff. Rough estimate, the length of the driveway is approximately 100 yards, and is probably a elevation difference of 25-30 feet or so. Just to give you an idea of how close or far off my guestimates are, I would think the bluff is about 45 feet tall. The hunters were getting ready for deer season. 95%. Of the land is rented or bought for hunting up there. The hunters that saw the truck are regulars and have been coming up for many years. I think I got all the questions... Did I miss any?


justthinkin said:
Thanks, mtrooper.

Now I think I understand what those berms are. They were once part of the eroding hillside when the ground gave way under them most likely during a heavy rainstorm, and they slipped, water moving them to come to rest perpendicular to the hillside.

The photo facing north up the slope makes me think the slope is kind of naturally terraced, and it's not just a straight shot up from the bottom to the top. Is that correct?

When you were up there did anyone actually walk up that slope or would that be next to impossible given the errosion?

Going back to why dogs haven't found anything, does anyone know if the Jamisons bodies, assuming they're deceased which I think we'd all agree at this point is likely, could have been limed or placed in acid. then the bones buried? I'm wondering if either acid or lime would eliminate odor so the dogs wouldn't be able to smell them?

Does anyone connected to the Jamisons know if Bobby Sr. or his brothers was ever known to hire a hit man for anything prior to when the Jamisons went missing?

I keep getting the idea that someone put something on their vehicles, a transponder that relayed back to someone's computer where the Jamison's vehicles were at all times, and that they were followed up the mountain whether anyone saw or heard another vehicle or not. If this was a hit job, this makes the most sense to me. How else would someone they didn't want to know their business know their business?

Have their cell phone pings been checked?
Click to expand...
 
mtrooper said:
The slope was not so much terraced, but not straight up and down either. I think it could be climbed, but it would be too soft. I think you would have a collapse after each step. As far as the acid and such it is so hard to determine because of all the different factors. I think that would be difficult none the less very messy to try to do. I think there would also be evidence of the chemicals as well. As far as the hit men, I have no clue. I don't know of any other family disputes where someone went missing or turned up dead. we have the cellphone records but not pings. I think to "ping" a phone the company has to triangulate the signal, so it would have had to been done back in October. I also think that the route they took is pretty well mapped out by the GPS on their phone, and credit card charges made for gas and munchies. As far as the placement of the truck, it was facing DOWN hill as if it were leaving and stopped for some unknown reason. So the picture is taken from lower down on the driveway facing uphill. I am not sure of the elevation difference from the very bottom before you go up to the plateau or from the plateau up to the top of the bluff. Rough estimate, the length of the driveway is approximately 100 yards, and is probably a elevation difference of 25-30 feet or so. Just to give you an idea of how close or far off my guestimates are, I would think the bluff is about 45 feet tall. The hunters were getting ready for deer season. 95%. Of the land is rented or bought for hunting up there. The hunters that saw the truck are regulars and have been coming up for many years. I think I got all the questions... Did I miss any?
Click to expand...

mtrooper, Oriah was the one wondering about the cell phone pings. She's just crazy busy and not in front of a computer to ask. Even though it doesn't sound like its necessary (except that sometimes gps are totally screwy!) We were thinking that if you could get the logs from the service provider towers from then, you would have the exact movement of their cell phones. Maybe from the day before might be useful, or the week before the truck was found and they were missing. I know it seems likely the phones remained there but who knows?
But they might want a search warrant for that.
Anyway, just a thought. Thanks for answering all the questions and for the pics.
Was there any evidence of fire on the mountain at the time? even brush fire?
 
I HAVE ABSOLUTELY AMAZING NEWS!!! R U ALL IN THE EDGE OF UR SEATS? WELL, I RECIEVED A PHONE CALL LAST NIGHT FROM ONE DETECTIVE TIM BLACKWELL OF INTERSTATE ASSOCIATION FOR MISSING AND EXPLOITED CHILDREN. MY PRAYERS HAVE BEEN ANSWERED. SO HE SAYS, "DO U REMEMBER SPEAKING WITH ME BACK IN OCT/NOV?" I TELL HIM OF COURSE. HE SAYS, "I WANTED U TO BE THE FIRST ONE I CALLED." HE SAID THAT HE HAS BEEN KEEPING UP WITH THE CASE THRU HIS OUTLET AND ALSO THE NET AND THAT HE FOUND A SITE THE PREVIOUS NITE WITH VERY PERSONAL PICTURES OF THEM THAT BROUGHT HIM TO TEARS. SAID HE COULDNT SLEEP ALL NIGHT. SO FIRST THING AT WORK, HE GOES STRAIGHT TO HIS SUPERVISOR AND PLEADED WITH HIM. (THANK U, GOD!!) HIS SUPERVISOR GAVE HIS APPROVAL TO GO FULL FORCE AHEAD. THRU THIER AGENCY, THAT ECCUSEARCH (OKAY, U KNOW WHAT IM TALKIN ABOUT, RIGHT?) PEOPLE FOULED UP ALOT AND ALSO THE FBI. NOW THEY HAVE PRETTY MUCH COLD CASED IT. SO DET. BLACKWELL, WHO HAS PROVIDED ME WITH NOT ONLY CREDENTIALS AND A LIST OF INVESTIGATIVE/LAW/ETC KIND OF SCHOOLS-CLASSES HE HAS BEEN THRU, BUT THIS AMAZING WEBSITE THAT WILL TELL U IF ANY GROUP OR AGENCY CLAIMING TO BE A LEGIT NON PROFIT IS ACTUALLY SANCTIONED OR WHATEVER. THAT WAS INTERESTING.
WE SPEAK FOR A LONG TIME AND FOR THE FIRST TIME SINCE THEY DISAPPEARED, I FEEL LIKE ITS ALL GONNA BE OKAY. ITS TOTALLY BEING DRIVEN BY GOD NOW. HE WANTED ME TO POST HIS EMAIL SO THAT ANY INFO ANY OF U HAVE--ANY AND ALL OF IT--WE WOULD ALL APPRECIATE IF U EMAIL HIM AND OR MAKE ARRANGEMENTS TO SEND WHATEVER INFO U FEEL IS HELPFUL. ALSO, THE COUPLE OF HUGE BINDERS IN ADDITION TO ANYTHING ELSE SENT BY THE SHERIFF WOULD BE A FOOT FORWARD AND IS REALLY APPRECIATED, MTROOPER.... HEE HEE =)
BUT THE THING HE SAID TO ME THAT MADE ME CRY THE MOST BEFORE HE HUNG UP- HE MENTIONED THE WEBSITE THAT HAD BROUGHT HIM TO TEARS WITH THE PICS AND LITTLE STORIES ABOUT THEM. HE SAYS, "HAVE U SEEN THE FACEBOOK PAGE, FIND THE JAMISONS?" "THATS THE ONE THAT MADE ME MOVE. PUT THE FIRE UNDER ME AND A DRIVE THAT I PROMISE WONT STOP UNTIL THEY R FOUND." I TELL HIM I AM TRULY BLESSED BECAUSE THE FACEBOOK PAGE, FIND THE JAMISONS IS MINE. I CREATED IT.
WHEN I JUST LET GOD MOVE ME..... WE CAN MOVE MOUNTAINS!!

HIS EMAIL IS.... investigations@interstate.ws
 
NSHENOLD said:
I HAVE ABSOLUTELY AMAZING NEWS!!! R U ALL IN THE EDGE OF UR SEATS? WELL, I RECIEVED A PHONE CALL LAST NIGHT FROM ONE DETECTIVE TIM BLACKWELL OF INTERSTATE ASSOCIATION FOR MISSING AND EXPLOITED CHILDREN. MY PRAYERS HAVE BEEN ANSWERED. SO HE SAYS, "DO U REMEMBER SPEAKING WITH ME BACK IN OCT/NOV?" I TELL HIM OF COURSE. HE SAYS, "I WANTED U TO BE THE FIRST ONE I CALLED." HE SAID THAT HE HAS BEEN KEEPING UP WITH THE CASE THRU HIS OUTLET AND ALSO THE NET AND THAT HE FOUND A SITE THE PREVIOUS NITE WITH VERY PERSONAL PICTURES OF THEM THAT BROUGHT HIM TO TEARS. SAID HE COULDNT SLEEP ALL NIGHT. SO FIRST THING AT WORK, HE GOES STRAIGHT TO HIS SUPERVISOR AND PLEADED WITH HIM. (THANK U, GOD!!) HIS SUPERVISOR GAVE HIS APPROVAL TO GO FULL FORCE AHEAD. THRU THIER AGENCY, THAT ECCUSEARCH (OKAY, U KNOW WHAT IM TALKIN ABOUT, RIGHT?) PEOPLE FOULED UP ALOT AND ALSO THE FBI. NOW THEY HAVE PRETTY MUCH COLD CASED IT. SO DET. BLACKWELL, WHO HAS PROVIDED ME WITH NOT ONLY CREDENTIALS AND A LIST OF INVESTIGATIVE/LAW/ETC KIND OF SCHOOLS-CLASSES HE HAS BEEN THRU, BUT THIS AMAZING WEBSITE THAT WILL TELL U IF ANY GROUP OR AGENCY CLAIMING TO BE A LEGIT NON PROFIT IS ACTUALLY SANCTIONED OR WHATEVER. THAT WAS INTERESTING.
WE SPEAK FOR A LONG TIME AND FOR THE FIRST TIME SINCE THEY DISAPPEARED, I FEEL LIKE ITS ALL GONNA BE OKAY. ITS TOTALLY BEING DRIVEN BY GOD NOW. HE WANTED ME TO POST HIS EMAIL SO THAT ANY INFO ANY OF U HAVE--ANY AND ALL OF IT--WE WOULD ALL APPRECIATE IF U EMAIL HIM AND OR MAKE ARRANGEMENTS TO SEND WHATEVER INFO U FEEL IS HELPFUL. ALSO, THE COUPLE OF HUGE BINDERS IN ADDITION TO ANYTHING ELSE SENT BY THE SHERIFF WOULD BE A FOOT FORWARD AND IS REALLY APPRECIATED, MTROOPER.... HEE HEE =)
BUT THE THING HE SAID TO ME THAT MADE ME CRY THE MOST BEFORE HE HUNG UP- HE MENTIONED THE WEBSITE THAT HAD BROUGHT HIM TO TEARS WITH THE PICS AND LITTLE STORIES ABOUT THEM. HE SAYS, "HAVE U SEEN THE FACEBOOK PAGE, FIND THE JAMISONS?" "THATS THE ONE THAT MADE ME MOVE. PUT THE FIRE UNDER ME AND A DRIVE THAT I PROMISE WONT STOP UNTIL THEY R FOUND." I TELL HIM I AM TRULY BLESSED BECAUSE THE FACEBOOK PAGE, FIND THE JAMISONS IS MINE. I CREATED IT.
WHEN I JUST LET GOD MOVE ME..... WE CAN MOVE MOUNTAINS!!

HIS EMAIL IS.... investigations@interstate.ws
Click to expand...

This is fantastic news, Niki. I only hope he will be able to find the answer to what happened to the family.
 
little726 said:
this is fantastic news, niki. I only hope he will be able to find the answer to what happened to the family.
Click to expand...

i have faith that he will, god brought him to help. And i believe with everything in me that he will be able to get us some major answers!!
 
I would be glad to talk to him, you can give him my cell number if you want. As far as mailing him everything...Thats up to the Sherriff to do. I know he trusted me with that information, and if he wants to give it to someone else thats his decision. I just spoke with the Sheriff last night, they had a lead that they were following up on. I would really hate to tick him off at this point. I hope you understand. But I would love to talk to him, I am all for the more the merrier.

As for if there was a fire, I did not notice any signs of a fire.
 
mtrooper said:
I would be glad to talk to him, you can give him my cell number if you want. As far as mailing him everything...Thats up to the Sherriff to do. I know he trusted me with that information, and if he wants to give it to someone else thats his decision. I just spoke with the Sheriff last night, they had a lead that they were following up on. I would really hate to tick him off at this point. I hope you understand. But I would love to talk to him, I am all for the more the merrier.

As for if there was a fire, I did not notice any signs of a fire.
Click to expand...

Ditto on us. Since we've not been out to the site yet in person we'll happily email and volunteer if they need SAR work done- but sounds like they will get all they need via the Sheriff.
Sounds like a great turn in events- ITA, the more the merrier.
 
mtrooper said:
i would be glad to talk to him, you can give him my cell number if you want. As far as mailing him everything...thats up to the sherriff to do. I know he trusted me with that information, and if he wants to give it to someone else thats his decision. I just spoke with the sheriff last night, they had a lead that they were following up on. I would really hate to tick him off at this point. I hope you understand. But i would love to talk to him, i am all for the more the merrier.

As for if there was a fire, i did not notice any signs of a fire.
Click to expand...

thats totally cool. Information was there to be gotten and found out before u neatly put it all in a binder. Im sure he will have no trouble getting whatever info u have on his own. Its okay. It will just be that much longer to find them. But i dont suppose they r going anywhere, huh?
 
wfgodot said:
Off-topic, yet on-topic!
OK unsolved: a (partial) list

* Girl Scout triple homicide (Locust Grove 1977)
* Freeman/Bible kidnapping + double homicide (rural Welch 1999)
* Denney double homicide (Cherokee County 2007)
* Huls double homicide (rural Welch 2008)
* Whittaker/Paschal double homicide (rural Weleetka 2008)
* Joe Neff murder (Poteau 2009)
* Pastor Carol Daniels murder (Anadarko 2009)
* Jody Rilee-Wilson murder (Heavener 2009)

The failure to solve the Jamisons's disappearance fits a pattern of OK LE's inability to solve serious crime.
Click to expand...

i am not trying to go off topic either, but i do think it is a pattern in ok and it needs to be changed. i was raised there, i am very familiar with the area where the jamison's disappeared as well as where they lived. i know this list of ok unsolved murders is not comprehensive but its interesting there is nothing from 1977 until 1999. for one thing, they dont have the best schools, and even LEO who have gone to school for it, arent well prepared. a lot of the LE are barely trained, if trained at all. we are talking andy and barney out there. swear goober in for emergencies. growing up there, i remember a pretty good number of "suicides" and very little investigation of any crime. enter the drug epidemic in the 90's and it was really every man for himself. i havent lived there in several years, but it looks like its still every man for himself :(
 
nanny2five said:
i am not trying to go off topic either, but i do think it is a pattern in ok and it needs to be changed. i was raised there, i am very familiar with the area where the jamison's disappeared as well as where they lived. i know this list of ok unsolved murders is not comprehensive but its interesting there is nothing from 1977 until 1999. for one thing, they dont have the best schools, and even LEO who have gone to school for it, arent well prepared. a lot of the LE are barely trained, if trained at all. we are talking andy and barney out there. swear goober in for emergencies. growing up there, i remember a pretty good number of "suicides" and very little investigation of any crime. enter the drug epidemic in the 90's and it was really every man for himself. i havent lived there in several years, but it looks like its still every man for himself :(
Click to expand...

Yes, I used the 1977 Girl Scout murders to start things off, as I feel that OSBI's mishandling of that debacle set them on a downward spiral - before that, I can remember hearing that it was such a fine agency. Now - not so much, to put it mildly. County sheriff-wise, statewide, not so good either, so I feel it's very fortunate that Sheriff Beauchamp has taken a great interest in solving this case - after all, it's still uncertain whether a crime has been committed.
 
I have to say that the Sheriff has spent a HUGE amount of his budget on looking for the Jamison's. Like wfgodot mentioned...with out any proof that a crime has been committed. I am just glad to know that he is still working on it.
 
Can someone PM me the address of the Jamison's house in Eufaula? I want to look it up on Google Earth.
 
NSHENOLD said:
I HAVE ABSOLUTELY AMAZING NEWS!!! R U ALL IN THE EDGE OF UR SEATS? WELL, I RECIEVED A PHONE CALL LAST NIGHT FROM ONE DETECTIVE TIM BLACKWELL OF INTERSTATE ASSOCIATION FOR MISSING AND EXPLOITED CHILDREN. MY PRAYERS HAVE BEEN ANSWERED. SO HE SAYS, "DO U REMEMBER SPEAKING WITH ME BACK IN OCT/NOV?" I TELL HIM OF COURSE. HE SAYS, "I WANTED U TO BE THE FIRST ONE I CALLED." HE SAID THAT HE HAS BEEN KEEPING UP WITH THE CASE THRU HIS OUTLET AND ALSO THE NET AND THAT HE FOUND A SITE THE PREVIOUS NITE WITH VERY PERSONAL PICTURES OF THEM THAT BROUGHT HIM TO TEARS. SAID HE COULDNT SLEEP ALL NIGHT. SO FIRST THING AT WORK, HE GOES STRAIGHT TO HIS SUPERVISOR AND PLEADED WITH HIM. (THANK U, GOD!!) HIS SUPERVISOR GAVE HIS APPROVAL TO GO FULL FORCE AHEAD. THRU THIER AGENCY, THAT ECCUSEARCH (OKAY, U KNOW WHAT IM TALKIN ABOUT, RIGHT?) PEOPLE FOULED UP ALOT AND ALSO THE FBI. NOW THEY HAVE PRETTY MUCH COLD CASED IT. SO DET. BLACKWELL, WHO HAS PROVIDED ME WITH NOT ONLY CREDENTIALS AND A LIST OF INVESTIGATIVE/LAW/ETC KIND OF SCHOOLS-CLASSES HE HAS BEEN THRU, BUT THIS AMAZING WEBSITE THAT WILL TELL U IF ANY GROUP OR AGENCY CLAIMING TO BE A LEGIT NON PROFIT IS ACTUALLY SANCTIONED OR WHATEVER. THAT WAS INTERESTING.
WE SPEAK FOR A LONG TIME AND FOR THE FIRST TIME SINCE THEY DISAPPEARED, I FEEL LIKE ITS ALL GONNA BE OKAY. ITS TOTALLY BEING DRIVEN BY GOD NOW. HE WANTED ME TO POST HIS EMAIL SO THAT ANY INFO ANY OF U HAVE--ANY AND ALL OF IT--WE WOULD ALL APPRECIATE IF U EMAIL HIM AND OR MAKE ARRANGEMENTS TO SEND WHATEVER INFO U FEEL IS HELPFUL. ALSO, THE COUPLE OF HUGE BINDERS IN ADDITION TO ANYTHING ELSE SENT BY THE SHERIFF WOULD BE A FOOT FORWARD AND IS REALLY APPRECIATED, MTROOPER.... HEE HEE =)
BUT THE THING HE SAID TO ME THAT MADE ME CRY THE MOST BEFORE HE HUNG UP- HE MENTIONED THE WEBSITE THAT HAD BROUGHT HIM TO TEARS WITH THE PICS AND LITTLE STORIES ABOUT THEM. HE SAYS, "HAVE U SEEN THE FACEBOOK PAGE, FIND THE JAMISONS?" "THATS THE ONE THAT MADE ME MOVE. PUT THE FIRE UNDER ME AND A DRIVE THAT I PROMISE WONT STOP UNTIL THEY R FOUND." I TELL HIM I AM TRULY BLESSED BECAUSE THE FACEBOOK PAGE, FIND THE JAMISONS IS MINE. I CREATED IT.
WHEN I JUST LET GOD MOVE ME..... WE CAN MOVE MOUNTAINS!!

HIS EMAIL IS.... investigations@interstate.ws
Click to expand...

this is fantastic news!
 
nanny2five said:
i am not trying to go off topic either, but i do think it is a pattern in ok and it needs to be changed. i was raised there, i am very familiar with the area where the jamison's disappeared as well as where they lived. i know this list of ok unsolved murders is not comprehensive but its interesting there is nothing from 1977 until 1999. for one thing, they dont have the best schools, and even LEO who have gone to school for it, arent well prepared. a lot of the LE are barely trained, if trained at all. we are talking andy and barney out there. swear goober in for emergencies. growing up there, i remember a pretty good number of "suicides" and very little investigation of any crime. enter the drug epidemic in the 90's and it was really every man for himself. i havent lived there in several years, but it looks like its still every man for himself :(
Click to expand...

Having recently returned from OK (again!) I probably best keep quiet about LE and my take on what the heck is going on in OK- or perhaps more apropo, what is going on with federal LE in regards to OK. However, I will say that the majority of the people that I have encountered there are absolutely lovely...and many equally perplexed as to how the Wild West seems to still exist right in the center of the good ole' US of A. Unsolved murders, multiple murders, mass murders, disappearances, 'suicides', drug wars, retribution killings, gang wars... man, you name it....
And as a result? A word of note to SAR folks out there: do not bring HRD dogs to OK, unless you want to be very confused. And very busy.
 
Oriah said:
Having recently returned from OK (again!) I probably best keep quiet about LE and my take on what the heck is going on in OK- or perhaps more apropo, what is going on with federal LE in regards to OK. However, I will say that the majority of the people that I have encountered there are absolutely lovely...and many equally perplexed as to how the Wild West seems to still exist right in the center of the good ole' US of A. Unsolved murders, multiple murders, mass murders, disappearances, 'suicides', drug wars, retribution killings, gang wars... man, you name it....
And as a result? A word of note to SAR folks out there: do not bring HRD dogs to OK, unless you want to be very confused. And very busy.
Click to expand...

bbm... so the human remains detection dogs kept you busy in OK huh? Interesting...
 
Oriah said:
Having recently returned from OK (again!) I probably best keep quiet about LE and my take on what the heck is going on in OK- or perhaps more apropo, what is going on with federal LE in regards to OK. However, I will say that the majority of the people that I have encountered there are absolutely lovely...and many equally perplexed as to how the Wild West seems to still exist right in the center of the good ole' US of A. Unsolved murders, multiple murders, mass murders, disappearances, 'suicides', drug wars, retribution killings, gang wars... man, you name it....
And as a result? A word of note to SAR folks out there: do not bring HRD dogs to OK, unless you want to be very confused. And very busy.
Click to expand...
just an interesting aside, two of the people listed on the charley project from fort smith ark were on their way to the latimer/pittsburg country area when they vanished. specifically a little town where i believe true evil lives. if the jamison's left on their own, they have every right to do that, but i am very afraid that is not what happened.
 
nanny2five said:
just an interesting aside, two of the people listed on the charley project from fort smith ark were on their way to the latimer/pittsburg country area when they vanished. specifically a little town where i believe true evil lives. if the jamison's left on their own, they have every right to do that, but i am very afraid that is not what happened.
Click to expand...

Okay, I'll bite - where does "true evil" live? I found a handful of Charley Project missing persons from Ft. Smith who either were or may have been OK-bound, but couldn't decide on evil's location based on those, though the names Talihina, Hartshorne, Wilburton, and Poteau do come to mind and all, I think, are in the basic Latimer/P-burg Co. area (Poteau's actually in Le Flore Co., not far from Ft. Smith.)
 
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