Neighbor and eyewitness Jim Kelley

loves2bmom said:

Good Lord, after traveling this today with my trusty guide Freefallzzz...holy crap! There is no way someone accidentally went down this road or pulled down there to get better reception on their phone. If someone came all the way down to Mr. Kelley's house, it was intentional and they knew where they were going. That's some serious 4 wheelin' back in there.

Kimster, if you're reading...we went all the way past the house and the road does not continue. Just a path into the woods.

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haha.. we are all members of the freefallzzz cult now! :woohoo:

So we can all agree that the driving to that location is unlikely to be accidental, especially twice by the same person.

And, that one can not drive further than the dog house. But that there is a path, or what looks like a path.

When you look at the county map (portlandmaps.com), you can see roads platted down that canyon. And yet, none of them seem to materialize as actual roads you could drive on. But could they be footpaths still?
And if so, who was walking out there in the middle of the night, and where were they coming from?

pdx said:

haha.. we are all members of the freefallzzz cult now! :woohoo:

So we can all agree that the driving to that location is unlikely to be accidental, especially twice by the same person.

And, that one can not drive further than the dog house. But that there is a path, or what looks like a path.

When you look at the county map (portlandmaps.com), you can see roads platted down that canyon. And yet, none of them seem to materialize as actual roads you could drive on. But could they be footpaths still?
And if so, who was walking out there in the middle of the night, and where were they coming from?

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:Banane35:

I've been worrying about this, so am taking the chance of going mildly off-topic.

Those of you who are driving this road, please, oh please, be very careful. Don't do it alone! Keep your windows up and your doors locked! Have your cellphone ready.

The reason I say this is because if anyone in that area--including those who just use that road to get into wooded areas--is doing anything bad, they might want to stop people from coming in there.

I used to go walking in one place, not far from my former house (which was near farmland and woods) with my former Corgi (deceased, alas). One day I literally almost tripped over a pile of "stuff" with a little cloth marker on some weeds. I took one close look, thought"yep, that could be cocaine bricks wrapped up in a construction-material bag" and just in case, commented to my dog "Dang! People are dumping trash even way out here!" (The weeds had been freshly bent over, so in case someone was still there, hiding...)

Then I booked it home, and never walked there again. Rest of the story: sure enough, awhile later out came a news story about drug problems and drugs being hidden/dropped off in that area.

So, ladies, do be careful. We never know what all might be going on in an area like that.

I'm just mama-henning as I've been worried about ya'll.

Now, as for the white truck sighting--didn't LE stay with the Hormans 24/7 for awhile? I just don't think it was their truck. If it was, why did they go down that road (they=whoever was driving/in truck) and did LE know and why didn't LE go?

Now, if there were another white truck involved--i.e. a different perp or a perp involved in a group snatching (which I find doubtful if TH is involved)--then there might be a link. *Might*. I've been creeped out ever since seeing the pix of the white truck associated with the architect who was involved in child *advertiser censored*. (On another thread here.)

loves2bmom said:

I would describe the homes as "beat up" on those roads!

I caught something in your link that I had never given much thought to before and wondered if a new thread should be started. Does anyone think this needs a thread or too small of an issue??

From your Pdf link:
"NOTE: LE has NOT requested any information from the public about seeing the truck in the 24-Hour Fitness lot. What does this tell us?"

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That is very interesting Loves2bMom. Maybe they did contact everyone that checked in during that time from the gym records privately - no need for a public request when they have all the names of all the people that were there....??? Just thinking out loud. I think it would make an interesting thread as it's one piece of info that I think has been verified - TH took baby to the gym from *advertiser censored* to *advertiser censored* hours.

I guess, it's obvious that it wasn't the Horman truck. At 3:00 on Friday, June 4, weren't TH & KH both at home with the baby? They went down tot he post stop at what time, wasn't it 3:45 and at 2:00 a.m on Saturday I believe that LE was living with them.

So my question is, what time does school let out? Is it 3:00? Would that be when teachers, staff, etc. would be leaving? Could someone else who drives a white pickup and was working at that school have left there around that time with Kyron's body and was looking for a place to dispose of it? How long does it take to drive from the school to JK's road?

loves2bmom said:

I would describe the homes as "beat up" on those roads!

I caught something in your link that I had never given much thought to before and wondered if a new thread should be started. Does anyone think this needs a thread or too small of an issue??

From your Pdf link:
"NOTE: LE has NOT requested any information from the public about seeing the truck in the 24-Hour Fitness lot. What does this tell us?"

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I don't think we have June 4 gym specific thread. I vote for creating one, loves2b. This might be small, but we'd have a place to discuss any other June 4 gym related stuff too if you create one.

Kat010 said:

I've been worrying about this, so am taking the chance of going mildly off-topic.

Those of you who are driving this road, please, oh please, be very careful. Don't do it alone! Keep your windows up and your doors locked! Have your cellphone ready.

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respectfully snipped

I agree. We don't know with 100% certainty that Terri did this or acted alone or that they are not reading this public discussion.

Billylee said:

I guess, it's obvious that it wasn't the Horman truck. At 3:00 on Friday, June 4, weren't TH & KH both at home with the baby? They went down tot he post stop at what time, wasn't it 3:45 and at 2:00 a.m on Saturday I believe that LE was living with them.

So my question is, what time does school let out? Is it 3:00? Would that be when teachers, staff, etc. would be leaving? Could someone else who drives a white pickup and was working at that school have left there around that time with Kyron's body and was looking for a place to dispose of it? How long does it take to drive from the school to JK's road?

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Billy, school lets out at 3:00pm. It's about 5-6 minutes between school and JK's road.

Billylee said:

I guess, it's obvious that it wasn't the Horman truck. At 3:00 on Friday, June 4, weren't TH & KH both at home with the baby? They went down tot he post stop at what time, wasn't it 3:45 and at 2:00 a.m on Saturday I believe that LE was living with them.

So my question is, what time does school let out? Is it 3:00? Would that be when teachers, staff, etc. would be leaving? Could someone else who drives a white pickup and was working at that school have left there around that time with Kyron's body and was looking for a place to dispose of it? How long does it take to drive from the school to JK's road?

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First bus on route at 3:06pm:
11523 NW SKYLINE BLVD 3:06 PM


The bus drops off on Sheltered Nook at 3:31:

15725 NW SHELTERED NOOK RD 3:31 PM

http://www.pps.k12.or.us/depts-c/bus/index.php


The 911 call was recorded at 3:56:

1) What time was 9-1-1 called?
Answer: BOEC received call at 1556 (3:56 p.m.).

http://www.mcso.us/public/newsroom/Kyron_PIO_timeline.pdf

BeanE said:

First bus on route at 3:06pm:
11523 NW SKYLINE BLVD 3:06 PM


The bus drops off on Sheltered Nook at 3:31:

15725 NW SHELTERED NOOK RD 3:31 PM

http://www.pps.k12.or.us/depts-c/bus/index.php


The 911 call was recorded at 3:56:

1) What time was 9-1-1 called?
Answer: BOEC received call at 1556 (3:56 p.m.).

http://www.mcso.us/public/newsroom/Kyron_PIO_timeline.pdf

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Holy cow, why was there almost a full half an hour between the time the bus driver said he wasn't on the bus, called the school and then the school called 911?
What's up with that? Was the bus late? My husband drove a school bus down here for a while, and they were usually within 5 minutes of schedule, unless it was snowing or something major.

Billylee said:

Holy cow, why was there almost a full half an hour between the time the bus driver said he wasn't on the bus, called the school and then the school called 911?
What's up with that? Was the bus late? My husband drove a school bus down here for a while, and they were usually within 5 minutes of schedule, unless it was snowing or something major.

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Probably Kaine/Terri driving time to the school, conversations back and forth among them, the teacher, the secretary:

Kaine: "Where's Kyron? He wasn't on the bus. The bus driver said he hasn't been here all day?"

Terri: "I left him in the hallway at 8:45 and went grocery shopping."

Teacher: "You said you were taking him to the doctor."

Terri: "No, I told you his appt is next week, not today."

Teacher: "Yes you did."

Teacher: Terri: "No I didn't."

Teacher: "Did too."

Teacher: Terri: "Did not."

All: "Let's check the classroom and the playground and the library."

(All scurry around checking. Then meet back at office.)

All: "Didn't find him." "Nope me neither." "Holy carp."

Secretary: "I'm calling 911."


All that looks reasonable to me to have taken up the time.

I don't think they wold have needed to search before calling 911, You have a teacher who says he wasn't in class all day, Porter, "didn't you take him to the doctor with you"? And your answer is no. Call 911. I don't know, but half an hour is along time. Darn, now you got me wondering if there was confusion between the teacher and the office staff and maybe the front office didn't have him marked absent and had to contact the teacher? Geeze, this never gets any less confusing does it? LOL

Billylee said:

I don't think they wold have needed to search before calling 911, You have a teacher who says he wasn't in class all day, Porter, "didn't you take him to the doctor with you"? And your answer is no. Call 911. I don't know, but half an hour is along time. Darn, now you got me wondering if there was confusion between the teacher and the office staff and maybe the front office didn't have him marked absent and had to contact the teacher? Geeze, this never gets any less confusing does it? LOL

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I know. But despite what the teacher said, Kaine and Terri thought he was at the school, and I think the natural, even if slightly irrational, tendency to do in a situation like that, because you're kind of disbelieving that your child isn't where you left them - particularly at a school - that you would demand somebody check a few areas, or you go look yourself.

I know I check for my keys on the kitchen counter multiple times when they're missing, even after I see they're not there, because I'm just *sure* I left them there.

IIRC, there were articles saying the secretary did some perfunctory checks before calling LE, but don't hold me to that until I find a link. I'll look for it later. I'm being lazy.

I'm being lazy too today, that's why I'm sitting here. LOL I gotta go mow my lawn now. Later gang.

Billylee said:

I'm being lazy too today, that's why I'm sitting here. LOL I gotta go mow my lawn now. Later gang.

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Have you considered hiring that job out? I've heard of some landscapers... :laugh:

BeanE said:

Probably Kaine/Terri driving time to the school, conversations back and forth among them, the teacher, the secretary:

Kaine: "Where's Kyron? He wasn't on the bus. The bus driver said he hasn't been here all day?"

Terri: "I left him in the hallway at 8:45 and went grocery shopping."

Teacher: "You said you were taking him to the doctor."

Terri: "No, I told you his appt is next week, not today."

Teacher: "Yes you did."

Teacher: Terri: "No I didn't."

Teacher: "Did too."

Teacher: Terri: "Did not."

All: "Let's check the classroom and the playground and the library."

(All scurry around checking. Then meet back at office.)

All: "Didn't find him." "Nope me neither." "Holy carp."

Secretary: "I'm calling 911."


All that looks reasonable to me to have taken up the time.

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Would they need to contact all the other bus drivers in case, say Kyron was hiding at the school for whatever reason, and jumped on another bus? One scenario I've held, was he had a major potty accident and hid for fear of ridicule and embarrassment. Maybe he even tried to walk home. Just throwing it in the mix.

Billylee said:

I guess, it's obvious that it wasn't the Horman truck. At 3:00 on Friday, June 4, weren't TH & KH both at home with the baby? They went down tot he post stop at what time, wasn't it 3:45 and at 2:00 a.m on Saturday I believe that LE was living with them.

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SBM

Kaine gives Terri an alibi from 2pm on. Right? Their truck was home then according to Kaine.

gliving said:

SBM

Kaine gives Terri an alibi from 2pm on. Right? Their truck was home then according to Kaine.

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I'm not sure. He said Terri was downstairs when he got home. He got something to eat. He went upstairs to his office. At bus time, he and Terri went downstairs. He put the baby's shoes on. He and baby left for the bus. Terri caught up to them.

I assume he'd have timestamps on his home office computer and emails, and perhaps phone records.

I don't know if he heard noise downstairs from Terri that he could verify she was still down there after he went upstairs.

I don't know if Terri went upstairs right when he did, or later. He didn't say at what point she went upstairs.

I don't recall him saying he could verify the truck was there the whole time.

If he was busy working, how would he verify the truck was there the whole time? Only one set of keys and he had them in his pocket wouldn't work because she could have made extra keys at some time.

Maybe the truck couldn't have left without him hearing it? Or maybe he assumed that?

I'd like to know when Terri went upstairs, and where she was in proximity to him.

BeanE said:

I'm not sure. He said Terri was downstairs when he got home. He got something to eat. He went upstairs to his office. At bus time, he and Terri went downstairs. He put the baby's shoes on. He and baby left for the bus. Terri caught up to them.

I assume he'd have timestamps on his home office computer and emails, and perhaps phone records.

I don't know if he heard noise downstairs from Terri that he could verify she was still down there after he went upstairs.

I don't know if Terri went upstairs right when he did, or later. He didn't say at what point she went upstairs.

I don't recall him saying he could verify the truck was there the whole time.

If he was busy working, how would he verify the truck was there the whole time? Only one set of keys and he had them in his pocket wouldn't work because she could have made extra keys at some time.

Maybe the truck couldn't have left without him hearing it? Or maybe he assumed that?

I'd like to know when Terri went upstairs, and where she was in proximity to him.

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Hi, BeanE.

I'm unaware of the upstairs/downstairs layout of KH's office v. TH's locale v. baby K. (Can you direct to supportive MSM?) Good point.

IMO, if KH was busy with business (on the phone, in tele-conference), it's quite possible he couldn't hear the truck leaving.

IMO, there is a direct tie between the Kelley sitings and this case. I just don't know what it is.

I'd like to know if KH knew that TH went out frantically "looking for Ky" in the early morning hours following Ky's disappearance. And if she ended up in the same place the Kelley neighbors saw a "white truck driven by a female" the day before at 3 pm.

Shadowboy said:

Hi, BeanE.

I'm unaware of the upstairs/downstairs layout of KH's office v. TH's locale v. baby K. (Can you direct to supportive MSM?)

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upstairs/downstairs is in this video interview:
http://www.kgw.com/video?id=97177194&sec=547977