GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #1

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-12105327

Police investigating the murder of landscape architect Jo Yeates have issued a fresh warning to women to take "usual" precautions for their safety.



The police have put out a warning saying the killer remains at large, is that because their arrested man has been released on police bail lol.
 
wfgodot said:
It snowed about 2" in Bristol on 18 December, the day after she was last seen.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-12025793
Click to expand...

And, based on your earlier link, which contained the temps, the weather stat table indicated that the total snowfall in Bristol in the entire month of December was 4 cm (1.6 inches, for you Yanks ;) ) So it appears that the snowfall overnight from Dec 17/18 was the only significant snowfall in the month. As well, the temperatures were the coldest on the night of Dec 18 and on the 19th. That would explain how poor Joanna's body could have frozen so thoroughly by the morning of the 25th.

IMO, it seems very likely that Joanna's body was dumped there shortly after she went missing.
 
Snoopster said:
And, based on your earlier link, which contained the temps, the weather stat table indicated that the total snowfall in Bristol in the entire month of December was 4 cm (1.6 inches, for you Yanks ;) ) So it appears that the snowfall overnight from Dec 17/18 was the only significant snowfall in the month. As well, the temperatures were the coldest on the night of Dec 18 and on the 19th. That would explain how poor Joanna's body could have frozen so thoroughly by the morning of the 25th.

IMO, it seems very likely that Joanna's body was dumped there shortly after she went missing.
Click to expand...

Agreed.
 
with reference to my post #244 about the bins and the possibility that JY had taken the pizza (maybe burnt) and box out to the trash, therefore leaving no sign of pizza and box (the LE reportedly did not manage to secure the trash before collection) - I looked at Google Maps and can see a bright green wheelie bin in the driveway. The location of the mansion which contains the apartment block is at the junction of Canynge Road and Percival Road - it's the 2nd property up on the right from that junction. You can see 2 gateways to the mansion - the one on the left has a driveway and the green bin is only very slightly seen - a better view is from the very first location into Percival Road (red car and white van in foreground) where you can see the bright green bin very clearly in the distant driveway of JY's block, beyond the very similar mansion where Peter Stanley's vehicles are seen in his own driveway.

It's worth a look to check out the location - looks quite different to how it appears on the news. Very large property with plenty of high hedges and shrubs within the grounds. No problem getting a body into a car parked down the side of the property near the door methinks. Sports field close by too.

I wonder if cadaverine can be detected in vehicles that have transported already frozen bodies...

jmo
 
Does anyone know if cadaver dogs have attended the scene at the apartment?
 
jigzy said:
with reference to my post #244 about the bins and the possibility that JY had taken the pizza (maybe burnt) and box out to the trash, therefore leaving no sign of pizza and box (the LE reportedly did not manage to secure the trash before collection) - I looked at Google Maps and can see a bright green wheelie bin in the driveway. The location of the mansion which contains the apartment block is at the junction of Canynge Road and Percival Road - it's the 2nd property up on the right from that junction. You can see 2 gateways to the mansion - the one on the left has a driveway and the green bin is only very slightly seen - a better view is from the very first location into Percival Road (red car and white van in foreground) where you can see the bright green bin very clearly in the distant driveway of JY's block, beyond the very similar mansion where Peter Stanley's vehicles are seen in his own driveway.

It's worth a look to check out the location - looks quite different to how it appears on the news. Very large property with plenty of high hedges and shrubs within the grounds. No problem getting a body into a car parked down the side of the property near the door methinks. Sports field close by too.

I wonder if cadaverine can be detected in vehicles that have transported already frozen bodies...

jmo
Click to expand...

Totally agree that it would be easy to take a body out to a car parked in that driveway without being seen.

My leading theory is that JY was murdered in her building.
A possible scenario: she arrived home with her groceries. Her LL or another tenant saw her going in, and said "hey, why don't you stop by for a quick pre-Christmas drink". (or, "hey, I loaded up those photos that I took last week...got a good one of you and your boyfriend", or one of a million other excuses). JY, not wanting to be unneighbourly, could have said "sure...hey, let me bring something. I know it's not much, but just picked up this pizza."

In this scenario, she wouldn't have brought her coat or personal belongings with her. it would also explain the missing pizza. Perhaps the perp never actually went into her own flat.

Thoughts?
 
Snoopster said:
Totally agree that it would be easy to take a body out to a car parked in that driveway without being seen.

My leading theory is that JY was murdered in her building.
A possible scenario: she arrived home with her groceries. Her LL or another tenant saw her going in, and said "hey, why don't you stop by for a quick pre-Christmas drink". (or, "hey, I loaded up those photos that I took last week...got a good one of you and your boyfriend", or one of a million other excuses). JY, not wanting to be unneighbourly, could have said "sure...hey, let me bring something. I know it's not much, but just picked up this pizza."

In this scenario, she wouldn't have brought her coat or personal belongings with her. it would also explain the missing pizza. Perhaps the perp never actually went into her own flat.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Some good points but what about her bag, coat, keys and the half drunk cider being in her flat ?

Even if she went out again, surely she would have taken her keys?

Also, are you suggesting it was pre - med murder with the lure of the drink etc or something happened to end in her killing?
 
whitedove said:
Yes, I have already said I found this strange, in that situation I too would be thinking where is she, but would'nt like to call the police right away, I really would'nt believe anything nasty had happened, but after looking for a note in the flat, find her keys and purse in her bag which might take half an hour, I would then have called her parents, friends, but the B/F did'nt do this, he waited till 12 midnight, then called the police, and only after calling the parents, but then all people are different, they think in different ways.
Click to expand...

Thinking about my movements when I come into the house, I quite often end up dumping my bag on the sofa/table/kitchen worktop and then swap to another bag if I fancy it without putting the other away - I'm a bit of a messy person! I think it was all suggested somewhere that Jo and the BF were quite messy. It may have been quite common for her to have several bags lying out and about so perhaps he just thought she was using a different one and didn't think to look. I also thought this about her coat.

That said, it does still seem like quite a long time for her to be gone on a Sunday night without him reporting her missing. In the UK shops are only allowed to be open for a certain amount of hours on a Sunday - I think it is 6 hours. Most will be closed by 5pm although a few smaller ones are exempt from this law so will stay open. I wonder where he thought she could have gone at that time on a Sunday.
 
In the pizza video:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...nna-Yeates-on-the-night-she-went-missing.html
JY has her rucksack over both shoulders - good position for the walk home.

In the booze video:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...ase-CCTV-of-Joanna-Yeates-in-off-licence.html
she has it slung over one shoulder - less likely position for the walk home.

I can see that the pizza is now in the rucksack - she would have needed to open it up after the CCTV capture in Tesco, but surely she would have gone back to the 2 shoulder way of carrying after that for the walk home?

She looks smiley and more cheerful than in the Tesco video. Had she accepted a lift with someone and just hopped out of the car (clutching her bags) momentarily to get the ciders? This would possibly explain why the rucksack was slung over one shoulder. Not someone she knew really well otherwise she'd have left her bags in the car.

jmo.
 
Sgt Jones said:
Sorry, I thought Greg was visiting his half bro who lived separately from his parents.
Click to expand...

Just catching up so sorry if someone has answered this already. I believe his brother does live alone with the parents living in Devon (different county, in a different part of the country for anyone who may not know England to well). I think I read that they recently retired to Devon though.
 
Daily Mail has a (mostly) new article up, centered around police warning area women not to walk alone after dark

‘Naturally we ask the public to continue to take the usual safety precautions. Women should avoid walking home alone after dark and householders should keep their premises secure and take care answering the door to strangers.’
Click to expand...

and including four "key questions":

Did Joanna know her killer?
Officers indicated they were working on the theory that Miss Yeates knew her killer after there were no signs of forced entry at her flat, in which her keys, purse and coat were all found.

Their admission yesterday that the killer was ‘at large’ and their warning to women not to go out after dark appears to be a significant change of direction.

It was even suggested they are looking into whether she was followed on her one-mile walk home from the pub where she had been drinking with friends – a development which would change the complexion of the investigation entirely.

Have police used all available CCTV evidence?
CCTV images have formed a significant part of the investigation, both in the shops she visited and on the numerous cameras attached to Clifton Suspension Bridge, the most direct route from her flat to the spot where her body was found. However police were criticised for apparently failing to check her neighbours’ private CCTV, which has since been automatically deleted.

They also released an image of her shopping in Bargain Booze for two bottles of cider later than other images of her in Tesco and Waitrose. It is unclear if they had not found the picture until after the others were recovered or had chosen to keep it back.

What happened to her pizza?
A key appeal on December 23 was over a pizza which Miss Yeates bought from Tesco on her way home from the pub. Neither the pizza nor the packaging have been found. Police have faced claims – which they have not denied – that a full search for it was begun only four days after she vanished. Crucially, that was the day after the bins on the road where she lived were emptied.

Has every witness been found?
Detectives are understood to still be searching for the owner of a light-coloured car seen driving slowly near the spot where her body was found in Longwood Lane, Failand, around three miles from her Clifton home.

They are also appealing for partygoers at functions at two golf courses near Longwood Lane in the run-up to Christmas to come forward. But the appeal was issued only this weekend.
Click to expand...

the rest, at
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-warn-women-Dont-night.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
 
Sgt Jones said:
Some good points but what about her bag, coat, keys and the half drunk cider being in her flat ?

Even if she went out again, surely she would have taken her keys?

Also, are you suggesting it was pre - med murder with the lure of the drink etc or something happened to end in her killing?
Click to expand...

Good questions Sgt Jones.

About her bag and coat: if I was just dashing to an immediate neighbour's, not intending to stay long, I definitely wouldn't take my coat or purse with me. If it was right in the building (not a medium or large apartment building) or just a quick dash across the driveway, why would I bother, particularly if I thought I was only going to be there for no more than an hour.

Regarding the keys: where I live (in a mid-size, low-crime Canadian city), we leave our house unlocked a lot of the time. (Not if we are going out all day or for a significant amount of time.) I would definitely leave it unlocked if I was just running next door for a little while. I admit that I know nothing about crime in Bristol, or even less about that particular neighbourhood. Would it be unusual for someone to do that there?

Regarding premeditation: I really had thought about that specifically. It could have simply been more opportunistic/accidental. Perhaps the individual was aware that her BF was away (after helping start the car, or seeing people help start the car?) and just thought they would flirt with her. When she became upset about a strong advance, the person may have become enraged...having misread 'signals'. Or, perhaps it is an even more sick individual who was waiting for an opportunity to strike. Not sure which makes more sense.

All just speculation driven by my wild imagination!
 
jigzy said:
In the pizza video:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...nna-Yeates-on-the-night-she-went-missing.html
JY has her rucksack over both shoulders - good position for the walk home.

In the booze video:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...ase-CCTV-of-Joanna-Yeates-in-off-licence.html
she has it slung over one shoulder - less likely position for the walk home.

I can see that the pizza is now in the rucksack - she would have needed to open it up after the CCTV capture in Tesco, but surely she would have gone back to the 2 shoulder way of carrying after that for the walk home?

She looks smiley and more cheerful than in the Tesco video. Had she accepted a lift with someone and just hopped out of the car (clutching her bags) momentarily to get the ciders? This would possibly explain why the rucksack was slung over one shoulder. Not someone she knew really well otherwise she'd have left her bags in the car.

jmo.
Click to expand...

It breaks my heart to watch those two videos. I can't imagine how her parents and boyfriend feel. :'(

Perhaps her rucksack didn't feel as comfortable across both shoulders with a large square pizza box in it?
 
A truly interesting thread. I have been following with great interest.

There are a few questions that strike me:

[1] We need to know what was so obvious to the parents that wasn't obvious to the BF. The father said that they could tell from the flat that there had been an abduction. But the BF spent an hour. Why?

[2] How likely is it that the landlord could have covered and dragged a body from a groud floor flat and then over what looks like a gravel drive-way? It would have been icey too. Could he have been certain that there would be no other tenants in the block sharing one entrance...? The tree and scrub canopy seen on the google map image would have been bare due to winter conditions and therefore far less secluded.

[3] Would a small 65 year old man, acting alone, have attempted to lift a body over a small wall next to a verge given the struggle he must have had getting the body into the car??

It seems to me unlikely that the murder took place in the flat because if it wasn't the LL, then another person would have had to drive close to the house to take the body. It seems to me that although he used to be my prime suspect, due to proximity alone, he couldn't have done it physically.

An alternative scenario:

JY gets home. Has a glass of cider. The door bell goes. Its a close neighbour she recognises over the intercom. She leaves the latch up on the door and quickly goes out to greet him.

There is an altercation in the hallway, and JY is taken to a waiting car.

This explains perhaps why the BF waits for an hour. He thinks she has just left - or has popped out for something.

any thoughts?
 
Welcome to WebSleuths, scottybail.

Indeed it appears the arc of the investigation is curving away from Mr Jefferies at this time.
 
Snoopster said:
Good questions Sgt Jones.

About her bag and coat: if I was just dashing to an immediate neighbour's, not intending to stay long, I definitely wouldn't take my coat or purse with me. If it was right in the building (not a medium or large apartment building) or just a quick dash across the driveway, why would I bother, particularly if I thought I was only going to be there for no more than an hour.
Click to expand...

True.

Regarding the keys: where I live (in a mid-size, low-crime Canadian city), we leave our house unlocked a lot of the time. (Not if we are going out all day or for a significant amount of time.) I would definitely leave it unlocked if I was just running next door for a little while. I admit that I know nothing about crime in Bristol, or even less about that particular neighbourhood. Would it be unusual for someone to do that there?
Click to expand...

Difficult one - I can only see her doing this if she was going to a flat that didn't involve going outside. Jo had a basement flat so to go elsewhere I think she would have to go outside (might be wrong here) so she may have chosen to fully close her door rather than pull it to so she would have needed her keys.

Also, as it was so close to Christmas, with an increased threat of robbery, she may have decided to close her door.


Regarding premeditation: I really had thought about that specifically. It could have simply been more opportunistic/accidental. Perhaps the individual was aware that her BF was away (after helping start the car, or seeing people help start the car?) and just thought they would flirt with her. When she became upset about a strong advance, the person may have become enraged...having misread 'signals'. Or, perhaps it is an even more sick individual who was waiting for an opportunity to strike. Not sure which makes more sense.
Click to expand...

I don't think it was planned but I don't think it would have happened if her b/f hadn't gone away. Not blaming him of course but I think he perp knew he would be away...
 
scottybail said:
An alternative scenario:

JY gets home. Has a glass of cider. The door bell goes. Its a close neighbour she recognises over the intercom. She leaves the latch up on the door and quickly goes out to greet him.

There is an altercation in the hallway, and JY is taken to a waiting car.

This explains perhaps why the BF waits for an hour. He thinks she has just left - or has popped out for something.

any thoughts?
Click to expand...

Good point about the door being on the latch when the b/f returns which makes him think she has just popped out and will be back soon - explains the delay in calling LE.
 
Anyone know how tall Jo was and how much she weighed?

Just wondering to see what sort of strength would be needed to move her body.

ty
 
wfgodot
has had his shots

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Insula Pomorum
Posts: 3,386
Quote:
Avon and Somerset police denied the inquiry was back to square one after they released Yeates's landlord, Chris Jefferies, on bail two days after he was arrested on suspicion of murder.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/ja...safety-warning

If they've seen fit to have to deny that, one can bet many people remain unconvinced Mr Jefferies is the culprit.

Quote:
Police and Yeates's boyfriend have expressed concern at some of the reporting of the case, particularly of the way Jefferies has been portrayed in mainstream media and on social networking websites.

Reardon said the "finger-pointing and character assassination" had been "shameful" and called for greater sensitivity.
This issue was mentioned above by krista (at #243) and does strike one as odd. If a man is arrested for killing your girlfriend then it is not incumbent on you to defend that man's reputation, nor should you.

(from same Guardian link as above)
This is my first post on here, The blog is really detailed so good job everyone...regarding Greg Reardon's comments on how the press have treated 'innocent men' I too find that odd - however maybe he is referring to himself the way a lot of people suspected him at first? Yet I agree, If my girlfriend had been murdered I would be more than happy for the General Public to spend all day on the internet if it may reveal who the perp was.
 
Sgt Jones said:
Anyone know how tall Jo was and how much she weighed?

Just wondering to see what sort of strength would be needed to move her body.

ty
Click to expand...

5 feet and 4 inches - not sure what that is in cms
 
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