mikeymot
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Well, hopefully they will find something ..... maybe in the shed (at least that would humour our Phill!!!)
GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #5
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Good find. He also makes some interesting points there about the boundary with 42.
whitedove
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I expect the police knew J/Y had been killed when they entered the flat the first time, the parents must have been told to prepare for the worst, it accounts for the things they said at the time.
The police then arrested LL, they must have known then that the body had rested somewhere before being moved to the roadside, and they must have thought the place would be in the LLs place.
They still need to find that place, so are now looking at plans of the building thinking there may be a hidden cupboard to place a body, they may still have the LL in mind.
The other news was the video of best friend R/S , the police sent her a message early Monday morning saying J/Y was missing, she panicked and rang J/Ys phone and G/R answered, her best friend had been missing for two days and no one had got in touch to ask if she had heard from J/Y, strange the police had left her phone with G/R if they thought she was already dead.
Its possible he didnt ring as he knew J/Y was already dead when he entered the flat, the parents said they knew there was something very wrong when they entered the flat, I expect they knew too, I wonder what it was.
[FONT="]The police have also checked the Bristol Zoo cams, maybe they are connecting the murder with Glenis Carruthers in 1976
Its all quiet at the moment, no warnings for young ladies to take care walking home, maybe they already have a good idea, and need the evidence, every morning I think there may be news of an arrest, I hope it will come soon.
Justice for Jo.
[/FONT]
The police then arrested LL, they must have known then that the body had rested somewhere before being moved to the roadside, and they must have thought the place would be in the LLs place.
They still need to find that place, so are now looking at plans of the building thinking there may be a hidden cupboard to place a body, they may still have the LL in mind.
The other news was the video of best friend R/S , the police sent her a message early Monday morning saying J/Y was missing, she panicked and rang J/Ys phone and G/R answered, her best friend had been missing for two days and no one had got in touch to ask if she had heard from J/Y, strange the police had left her phone with G/R if they thought she was already dead.
Its possible he didnt ring as he knew J/Y was already dead when he entered the flat, the parents said they knew there was something very wrong when they entered the flat, I expect they knew too, I wonder what it was.
[FONT="]The police have also checked the Bristol Zoo cams, maybe they are connecting the murder with Glenis Carruthers in 1976
Its all quiet at the moment, no warnings for young ladies to take care walking home, maybe they already have a good idea, and need the evidence, every morning I think there may be news of an arrest, I hope it will come soon.
Justice for Jo.
[/FONT]
Destroyer
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Yeah but what if GR hadnt been watching the news for a couple of days ??
he would of still used the same story as he did when he got back.Hi Pipkins & welcome to Websleuths, i agree mostly with exactly what you have sais above - the only thing that makes me wonder is 'did he plan it ??'.
Destroyer
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Keep it up guys, what a fantastic thread & community weve built up over the last 3 weeks - the attention to detail has been second to none & the artwork, graphics & images provided by Phillb & Otto have been nothing short of fantastic !
The overview plan images of the house/flat are remarkable, this is like being deeply involved in the investigation & i intend to see this through right up until we get our man !!!
The overview plan images of the house/flat are remarkable, this is like being deeply involved in the investigation & i intend to see this through right up until we get our man !!!
Destroyer
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MoveEveryStone
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Totally agree.
If it is him, for whatever reason his alibi is holding up. If it is him, apparently no one saw him at the flat in the time frames in question. If it is him, forensic and DNA evidence is completely frustrated and may be almost useless. His DNA is obviously all over the flat, his car, and would be on JY since they slept in the same bed, were together at lunch, etc. Her DNA would be on him, in the car, etc. Only some unusual DNA would point to him (i.e DNA that is in a place it shouldn't be). In addition to the difficulty in believing that the body could have been there for 8 day (as has been discussed in this forum) LE may be looking at an interim holding location as a place to find DNA where it shouldn't be.
MoveEveryStone
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Here's a concept plan for the flat ... not sure if the doors and openings are correctly placed
It's my understanding CJ lives in the flat above, presumably his ground floor covers that whole space shown. Question - is the space next to GR/JY's flat another basement flat, or is it perhaps a basement underneath CJ's groundfloor flat? If it is a basement under CJ's flat, is it a proper celler and accessible to CJ's flat? Is it an old basement walled off and not accessible to CJ's flat? Is there another exterior door (like Jo's) that accesses it? Is there an access into GR/JY's flat from the other 1/2 basement such as a utility door put ther during the construction/remodel of Jo's flat (which I understand was in 1988)? I presume these are the questions being asked. But I find it hard to believe they would just be starting that now.
On the question of whether there is another basement, I do agree all Victorians would have a basement, but I believe this one is a "1/2 basement" due to the fact the land is not level, and from the front the whole floor is underground, but from the back (where Jo's door was) it is only 1/2 underground. So I believe this would be the last floor.
equationgirl
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Going to leave this alone now ... unless we get more info
Wow! A superb model there, Otto, really well done. :goodpost:
The door is on the ground level, so there are probably some stairs going down before entering the garden flat ... good point. I'll see if I can fit some stairs in. The front of the flat has windows, so this particular garden flat seems to be half under the ground - front to back.
equationgirl
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I think these questions have just been answered. It's the other basement flat, JY+GR's flat being one of two basement flats in the building. I believe it is completely separate, not accessible from the landlord's property and there is no interconnecting door, but without seeing up-to-date plans or seeing photographs of the property I don't know for certain.
Going to leave this alone now ... unless we get more info
These graphics are stunning... Amazing work on this thread...And a very collegial group...
Here's an update with the stairs ... where I think they could be ... and with the stairs, if she was murdered in the flat, then we have to consider that whoever did this must be strong enough to carry her up a few stairs (I'm guessing the stairs are about 4' in height).
I feel like I'm spamming with images ... but with a joint effort, we should be able to figure this out.
Phillb
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Mickey and Otto, I think the Police would have wanted the original plans regarding the small outbuilding at the end of the property. The one connecting 42 and 44 you can see on these old plans. It's obviously not there now, but they will have wanted to see if there was any void or false wall when the building was converted.
And great job with these models and plans Otto and guys. I half expect to see bricks and mortar next. Agreed there's some very clever work going on here.
I would go as far to say were putting the Police to shame lol
Phillb
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If it's anything like round here, many of the dog walkers are retired, and you can set your watch by them, any day of the year.
Yes, only the Sun! They apparently can't distinguish between "don't know" and "can't say". Still, anything for a headline, I suppose.
Phillb
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To further back up my theory that Jo's body can't have been in Longwood Lane for 8 days, i've just checked on the depth of snow in Bristol for that Christmas week from the 18th. I have to say i'm more certain than ever her body hadn't lain there undiscovered for 8 days now.
The light dusting of snow at 10.22 a.m on the morning of Saturday the 18th December in Bristol.
The morning after Jo's body was supposed to have been dumped??
The original shot taken at St Peters Church in Castle Park Bristol can be seen here
http://snipurl.com/1ug20u
The Exif data info to back that up.
Next day shot on Sunday the 19th Decemember at Arnos Vale Cemetery Bristol.
The original shot can be seen here
http://snipurl.com/1ug27w
All dates the shot were taken can be seen on the left of the page.
You can also read the EXIF data yourself if your a flickr member, or have a programme to do it.
And the search for missing Jo taken sometime midweek Mon-Fri.
There's plenty of shots in Bristol taken that week to be seen in the flickr Bristol group here
http://snipurl.com/1ug3l1
It beggars believe the body was undiscovered in Longwood Lane for 8 days. There certainly isn't the 2' snow drifts i've been hearing about.
Anyone else still convinced she was dumped there on the Friday night the 17th Dec?
The light dusting of snow at 10.22 a.m on the morning of Saturday the 18th December in Bristol.
The morning after Jo's body was supposed to have been dumped??
The original shot taken at St Peters Church in Castle Park Bristol can be seen here
http://snipurl.com/1ug20u
The Exif data info to back that up.
Next day shot on Sunday the 19th Decemember at Arnos Vale Cemetery Bristol.
The original shot can be seen here
http://snipurl.com/1ug27w
All dates the shot were taken can be seen on the left of the page.
You can also read the EXIF data yourself if your a flickr member, or have a programme to do it.
And the search for missing Jo taken sometime midweek Mon-Fri.
There's plenty of shots in Bristol taken that week to be seen in the flickr Bristol group here
http://snipurl.com/1ug3l1
It beggars believe the body was undiscovered in Longwood Lane for 8 days. There certainly isn't the 2' snow drifts i've been hearing about.
Anyone else still convinced she was dumped there on the Friday night the 17th Dec?
Malaconotus
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No. CJ lives on the top floor of the building. The Hall floor flat does cover the whole of the floor above but is owned and occupied by another resident who has been there for the last nine years.
It is another basement flat. I believe it is still rented to a foreign couple.
Yes, the other basement flat is accessed from an external door to the rear of the property and not by any other route.
I have a lot more detail than the above but am not minded to put it in the public domain. It is all easily established from the electoral roll, property sales websites, planning applications etc., whereupon a little intelligent googling will tell you a little about the other residents.
Also, the path does run all the way around the property and the sheds are freestanding buildings to the rear, visible on satellite images. The change in the boundary between 42 and 44 may realte to the now demolished ?coal sheds? shown on old plans.
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