MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #4

oops, sorry if that blew the page borders. Oh geez, mom who cares, it's 12 minutes long. ;-) I'm sure some kind soul could try tho.

Went looking for a transcript online for mom who cares ;-) and found this old Nancy Grace transcript from when Jacob had been missing for 15 years. I'd never seen this before either.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Flyers have been posted throughout Livingston County. But police don`t think 12-year-old Jacob Wetterling is staying in the small town of Horace (ph). But they do believe he passed through town recently.

A clerk at this Quik Stop says she saw Jacob last Friday at around 5:00 and remembers the mole on his face. A phone sits directly across the street from the Quik Stop, easily accessible for someone trying to call for help.

Livingston County authorities have reason to believe that the missing boy placed a call from this pay phone last Friday, because that`s the same time that St. Cloud, Minnesota, authorities say they received a phone call from someone here in Horace (ph) claiming to be Jacob Wetterling.
(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: To Jim Allen, Jim, explain to me what happened.

JIM ALLEN, FORMER INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: Well, as you mentioned, October 22, 1989, it was 9:00. And Jacob Wetterling his brother, Trevor, and their friend, Aaron, had gone up to a convenience store, rented a video, and were on their way back home.

And they were confronted by a man who was wearing a mask, dark clothing, had a pistol, gruff voice. And he confronted the three boys and told them to get in the ditch, throw down their bikes, or else he would shoot.

(snipped for WS) rest of transcript is here:
http://157.166.255.31/TRANSCRIPTS/0511/25/ng.01.html

Thank you Shergal!

Thanks, Texas Mist, for fixing my mess. ;-)

shergal said:

Here is the dentist clinic that they said was 1/4 mile north of abduction site in that 911 call. "Jacob was taken approx. 1/4 mile south of Dr. Cotton's clinic"

Dr's. Cotton & Styles, D.D.S 1514 E Minnesota St., St. Joseph, MN

Google map:
Google Maps


1514 East Minnesota Street, Saint Joseph, MN 56374-8618 - Google Maps


Has a street view also. I think this must be a newer location for the clinic, but someone local should know. They must have been further east on Minnesota street directly at the end of what is now 16th Ave. SE originally.

I'm guessing Schreifel's originally had a home or farm across the road from DR, because it comes to the same location. That was probably Schreifel's field they laid their bikes down in. (Mr. Urban Schreifel was already in his 70's thirty years ago.)

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Shergal,
When did the home of Urban Schreifel's get torn down? Was it across the street from the Rassier farm? Where exactly was it in relation to the Rassier farm? Not being from the area, I am having a hard time with the maps. Where were the bikes left in relation to the Schreifel's farm? I was under the impression that they were practically in the driveway of the Rassier farm.
The 911 tape is amazing, and chilling to listen to. Thank you for posting the links.

I did a little checking on Ancestry- Sylvester and Doreen had 6 children between 1961-1973. It is strange because it said he lived at 29871 91st Ave St Joseph MN from 1993-2002 (those are the only years they cover) and lists his neighbors names with addresses. They all lived on 91st Ave - house numbers were 30176, 30120, 30167, 30127, 29748, 29912, 30158, 29905, and 30112. When I try to look any of them up, they don't exist anymore. Did they take out a bunch of houses, or move the streets since 2002?

Another question, if anyone knows. Aaron said that he saw the man in the road, and after he asked them their ages, he told them to run into the woods. What woods are these? If they were on the road, were these the woods in front of the Rassier or Schreifels farm? I had thought that the bikes were found practically in the driveway of the Rassier farm, but it doesn't sound like it now. From the edge of the Rassier driveway to the Wetterling home there is nothing but pasture, and small scrub. Anyone???

Solitary Truth Sleuth said:

Another question, if anyone knows. Aaron said that he saw the man in the road, and after he asked them their ages, he told them to run into the woods. What woods are these? If they were on the road, were these the woods in front of the Rassier or Schreifels farm? I had thought that the bikes were found practically in the driveway of the Rassier farm, but it doesn't sound like it now. From the edge of the Rassier driveway to the Wetterling home there is nothing but pasture, and small scrub. Anyone???

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Exactly. Now here is what I have asked repeatedly: What woods did the abductor walk towards with Jacob??? Because the boys said the man took Jacob towards the woods.

There's woods in front of the Rassier's farm on their side of the road - to the left of the driveway. If anyone was walking down DR's driveway, they would be going "toward the woods."

AFAIK, there were NO houses back then on that road anywhere near DR's. I think maybe the field across was Schreifel's and they just referred to this as Schreifel's house? Maybe the house was set way back behind the field. Human would remember, she was there when they were searching.

Yes, they have changed road names since then. But I don't think they've torn any houses down. I think some of those homes out there may have just had fire numbers by their mail boxes back then and not actual house numbers. You notice Mr. Jerzak (sp?) says he has no numbers on his house and gives his fire number. They do that in rural areas here - just have a fire number and no house number. I have a friend who lives in St. Stephen, which is north of there, and he never got a house number until a few years ago.

Someone on here had access to a Plat map - that listed owners of all the land around there. Maybe they will come on again and check it for us.

I think some of what is fields now, may have been woods back in 1989. There are woods all around Wetterling's cul de sac. Aaron said when he was older and interviewed they maybe ran 75 yards and then looked back, which would put them up near where the road turns toward Kiwi Court. That was all woods around there.

I plugged that 29871 91st Ave St Joseph MN address into google maps and it came up (not posting it here, cuz I have no clue how to make it smaller like Texas Mist did). But the area that came up was way outside St. Joe in another direction. There were probably several Schreifels families around there. You may have just found a relation.

concentric said:

Exactly. Now here is what I have asked repeatedly: What woods did the abductor walk towards with Jacob??? Because the boys said the man took Jacob towards the woods.

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Some articles I read say that when the boys looked back after running a good distance, Jacob and the man were gone. But then some articles say that Aaron seen the man briefly take Jacob in the directions of the woods. Another example is that some articles say that the perp just told the boys to run as fast as they could or he'd shoot, while some say the perp told the boys to run into the woods. There are so many inconsistences with these articles. And shergal with the transcript you posted of the clerk seeing who she thought might have been Jacob at the payphone, do you know how old that story is? It's dated around 2004, but they refer to Jacob on the payphone as a boy. Jacob would have been a man in 2004. I wonder why nothing ever came of that lead.

In one of the articles, the police found tire tracks and footprints that stopped, with a toe digging deep into the dirt. To me, that sounds like someone getting into a car. Why would the prints just stop? Jacob was 5'1", it would have been difficult for one person to carry him. If the person speeded up the street towards tom thumb, they could have easily gotten away before the boys ran a half a mile back home. I wonder where they stopped to turn around to look and see that Jacob was gone? Trevor says the guy was wearing a nylon mask, is that like a ski mask made of nylon or black women's nylons?

I am transcribing the 911 call. I should have it done by this afternoon.

It is very suspicious to me that DR says he witnessed things, then he was sleeping, then he was running. To me, it seems like he is hiding something.

shergal said:

I plugged that 29871 91st Ave St Joseph MN address into google maps and it came up (not posting it here, cuz I have no clue how to make it smaller like Texas Mist did). But the area that came up was way outside St. Joe in another direction. There were probably several Schreifels families around there. You may have just found a relation.

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Well Ancestry may not be correct. It does list those house numbers as being on 91st Ave. They may have had houses set back from the road, and now there is a road that is closer to their homes. I would really love to see a plat map of the area from 1989, and an aerial photo of the whole area from the same time. It is really hard to judge the big picture of the area from the smaller photos. I have not been able to locate any on the web yet.

chef81 said:

Some articles I read say that when the boys looked back after running a good distance, Jacob and the man were gone. But then some articles say that Aaron seen the man briefly take Jacob in the directions of the woods. Another example is that some articles say that the perp just told the boys to run as fast as they could or he'd shoot, while some say the perp told the boys to run into the woods. There are so many inconsistences with these articles. And shergal with the transcript you posted of the clerk seeing who she thought might have been Jacob at the payphone, do you know how old that story is? It's dated around 2004, but they refer to Jacob on the payphone as a boy. Jacob would have been a man in 2004. I wonder why nothing ever came of that lead.

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On one of the links posted by Shergal, there is an interview with Aaron or Trevor, I can't remember which one. In it he says that the man stopped them on the road, had them put their bikes in the ditch. Asked them their ages, and told them to run into the woods or he would shoot. I would think that has to be the most accurate, because he was there. That is why my question is which woods, and from what exact location. I don't see from the current photos - any woods between the Rassier driveway and the the road that runs in to Kiwi Court. Both sides of the road show pasture/farm field.
There are trees on Kiwi court, but he said they looked back at about 75 yards and didn't see Jacob. The woods by the Wetterling home are farther than 75 yards. Maybe those fields were woods back then. That is why I would love to see photos from 1989. If anyone has them- please post!

Jbrown324320 said:

In one of the articles, the police found tire tracks and footprints that stopped, with a toe digging deep into the dirt. To me, that sounds like someone getting into a car. Why would the prints just stop? Jacob was 5'1", it would have been difficult for one person to carry him. If the person speeded up the street towards tom thumb, they could have easily gotten away before the boys ran a half a mile back home. I wonder where they stopped to turn around to look and see that Jacob was gone? Trevor says the guy was wearing a nylon mask, is that like a ski mask made of nylon or black women's nylons?

I am transcribing the 911 call. I should have it done by this afternoon.

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It was woman's black nylons pulled over his head from everything I've ever read. In one TV interview from long ago, a reporter asked DR about the black nylon mask and DR stated they had no women's nylons in their house. Then in that same interview, they were standing at one point in front of an open door and there were nylons hanging over a rack drying. We haven't been able to find this video anywhere online.

Here is the transcript of the 911 call.

911 emergency
This is Merlin Jerzak from *advertiser censored* Kiwi Court in St Joe, right in the Township. I am right now next door to my neighbor’s, at my neighbors, the Jerry Wetterling family. Some of their boys went down to Tom Thumb to pick up a movie and on their way back, someone stopped them and uh we believe that they have one of the boys because one of the boys did not come back with them. Ok, were they picked up in a vehicle? Pardon I can’t hear you? Were they picked up in a vehicle? Just a second, I will ask (asks boys). They didn’t see a vehicle. This person appeared on the road uh when they were bicycling back home. OK, and they don’t know where their brother and friend is at? They don’t know where their brother and friend is at. OK, so we are missing two people? Just missing one. One? OK. Did they see the individuals at all? Yes they did (asks the boys). He had a mask on. He had a mask on? Right. The other dispatch right now is dispatching a squad to where you are at right now, OK? In the meantime I just want to get as much information as I can. What is your name again sir? My name is Merlin Jerzak (spells name). OK, what is your home phone number Merlin? I have where you are at and everything. (Gives home phone #), but I am at my neighbor’s… and that’s Dr. Jerry Wetterling? That is Dr Jerry Wetterling. How old is the individual that has not returned? (asks boys how old Jacob is). Eleven. Ok, Jacob, it’s Jacob, right? Yes, Jacob, Jacob Wetterling. OK, what was Jacob last seen wearing? (asks the boys). Just a minute. OK. He was wearing a red hockey jacket that had “police department” on it. And it has his name on it. Police department written on back? (asks boys to confirm Police department on back? In white letters?) In white letters. Where was the last contact made? Pardon? Where was the last time they seen Jacob? Where were they at about? (asks boys) It was uh right at the uh Urban Schriefels uh house. OK, give me an idea where that is. Do you know where Dr. Cotton’s office is? Yes, it’s uh about approximately a quarter of a mile up ah South from the clinic. OK, it would be about a quarter of a mile up South of? Dr. Cotton and child clinic. Hang on a second, OK? (relays all info gathered to dispatch party: male party did have a mask on … 11 year old Jacob. wearing red hockey jacket with white lettering on back, “police department” across the back). Was Jacob riding a bike? (asks boys). Yeah, he was riding his ten speed bike.
(operator relays info over scanner: no vehicle was seen, party approached them on foot, was riding bike, not known where bicycle is at this time. He made contact with individual approximately 1/2 mile south of Dr. Cotton’s dental clinic on 95th Ave. Where are the …. at this time? XXXX Kiwi Ct. gives address and directions to Wetterling’s house).
Can you? Merlin? Yeah. Give me information on this guy with the mask? I want color, anything those kids can remember. OK by the way, I don’t have a house number on my house. You are at the neighbors place though right? I am at the Wetterlings. I have a fire number. My fire number is *advertiser censored* and theirs is, uh. I am right next door, and mine is *advertiser censored*. Do the Wetterling’s have a house number on there? No they don’t, but they are right next door to mine. Um I think that my best bet is to let Trevor get on the phone here and he can describe to you what he saw and this type of thing. OK, hang on just a second (talks about fire numbers and location) OK, I am ready. OK, I will put Trevor on and he can, he can answer your questions. OK. We have him pretty well calmed down here. OK. Hello? Trevor? Yeah. You are talking to the sheriff’s office ok? Mmhmm. I want you to give me anything you can recall about this male party that approached you guys, ok? Well, he was, he was like, kind of, he was like a man. He was kind of like… He was large? Sort of. OK. He had like uh kind of like looks like these nylon things, as a mask. Do you know what color it was? Black. A black mask? Do you know what color jacket he had on? I think it was black too. Ok. Did you notice any jeans or anything? Yeah, just a second (asking others inaudible) Trevor, do you know what happened to your friend’s bicycle? Um no, we don’t know. Nobody knows what happened to that? Cause we had to just like run off into the woods. OK, you guys ran off into the woods but nobody knows what happened to Jacob, right? Yeah. OK. Can you think of anything else? Did the guy have… What? Did the guy have like a deep voice or anything like that you could remember? (Trevor asks others) It was very cold(?) OK, can you tell me, how big, compared to your dad or somebody how big would you say this guy was. He was about the size of Merle, the guy you were just talking to. OK, same height, same weight? Yeah. OK. Do you remember, and he had on a black mask and a black jacket. Do you know if the jacket was leather or nylon, did it have anything written on it? We couldn’t tell because it was so dark. OK. Can I talk to Merlin again real quick? Thank you. Yes? Merlin, how big are you? (laughs) OK, uh I am about 195 pounds and 5’10”. I know that’s hard for kids to pinpoint, but I have to try to figure out who he looks like. I am keeping you guys on hold because I am trying to talk to the officers at the same time, OK? So hang on just a second. (describes perpetrator over dispatch radio mask, approximately 195 pounds, 5’10” wearing a black mask and a black jacket). Your number is Adam John, right? AJ? Pardon? Your fire number is AJ 80? Right. (Merlin talks to boys- did the guy tell you guys to run into the woods?) Where are the woods at that the kids ran into? OK, it is a little bit to the south of Urban Schriefel’s um house. And, um ah it runs for about a quarter of a mile west. OK, I am hoping if Jacob would have ran into the woods or something if would have gotten lost or something. Do they know if he actually had contact with Jacob or anything like that? Yes, they just told me that the guy had a hold of Jacob and told them to run into the woods. Told the other two boys to run into the woods. Did they see any weapons at all or anything like that? Guns? Knives? He had a pistol. (operator relays info to police radio individual did have some type of hand gun). Can I talk to Trevor again? Yes, hold on. OK. Hello? Trevor, did you see the gun the individual had? Um, we couldn’t really see it, but we just, we sort of fell. OK, did he threaten you..? (Cut off) OK, do you guys see squad cars outside the residence? Um, what? There should be a squad…, can I talk to Merlin again? Yeah, I think the squad is at my house. Is it far? OK, can you guys open up the door and yell out to them. Yeah. OK I will tell them to go…, are you north or which direction are you from where the spot is? Um, South. Hold on. Merlin? (relays info about address on police radio). I got officer Bechtold in the house. OK. He is going to finish off the call from that end now, OK. More than likely we will be coming out with some dogs and stuff, OK? OK, good. Thank you very much. OK.

chef81 said:

Some articles I read say that when the boys looked back after running a good distance, Jacob and the man were gone. But then some articles say that Aaron seen the man briefly take Jacob in the directions of the woods. Another example is that some articles say that the perp just told the boys to run as fast as they could or he'd shoot, while some say the perp told the boys to run into the woods. There are so many inconsistences with these articles. And shergal with the transcript you posted of the clerk seeing who she thought might have been Jacob at the payphone, do you know how old that story is? It's dated around 2004, but they refer to Jacob on the payphone as a boy. Jacob would have been a man in 2004. I wonder why nothing ever came of that lead.

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I agree on the various versions. I've heard they looked back and no one was there, and they looked back and saw Jacob being led away by his elbow. Part of that confusion may have been because they were young and scared and as they told various people and talked about it, other memories came back? I'm not sure.

I don't know when the payphone incident was, but it may have been ignored because people were still thinking of Jacob as 11 even years later. I'm pretty sure it was before 2005 when that NG story ran on TV though.

Jbrown324320 said:

In one of the articles, the police found tire tracks and footprints that stopped, with a toe digging deep into the dirt. To me, that sounds like someone getting into a car. Why would the prints just stop? Jacob was 5'1", it would have been difficult for one person to carry him. If the person speeded up the street towards tom thumb, they could have easily gotten away before the boys ran a half a mile back home. I wonder where they stopped to turn around to look and see that Jacob was gone? Trevor says the guy was wearing a nylon mask, is that like a ski mask made of nylon or black women's nylons?

I am transcribing the 911 call. I should have it done by this afternoon.

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<modsnip> There was NO house across from DR's. There is a dirt road leading into the field next to where the bikes and scooter where laying. This was just a road to get plowing and harvesting equipment into that field. There were 3 houses further north towards Tom Thumb. I talked to a friend this morning who lived in St. Joe back then, and he said Urban Schreifels lived across the road from Rassiers and down about 1 block toward Tom Thumb. So the boys had probably just passed his house when they saw the man standing in the road. The footprints where Jacob dug into the road are seen on DR's driveway in these crime photos on this site also. The tire tracks are from that guy who heard the news on his scanner and got to the scene before LE and he pulled in on that road and turned around. He left after talking to a cop and was later cleared.

Jbrown324320 said:

Here is the transcript of the 911 call.

911 emergency
This is Merlin Jerzak from *advertiser censored* Kiwi Court in St Joe, right in the Township. I am right now next door to my neighbor’s, at my neighbors, the Jerry Wetterling family. Some of their boys went down to Tom Thumb to pick up a movie and on their way back, someone stopped them and uh we believe that they have one of the boys because one of the boys did not come back with them. Ok, were they picked up in a vehicle? Pardon I can’t hear you? Were they picked up in a vehicle? Just a second, I will ask (asks boys). They didn’t see a vehicle. This person appeared on the road uh when they were bicycling back home. OK, and they don’t know where their brother and friend is at? They don’t know where their brother and friend is at. OK, so we are missing two people? Just missing one. One? OK. Did they see the individuals at all? Yes they did (asks the boys). He had a mask on. He had a mask on? Right. The other dispatch right now is dispatching a squad to where you are at right now, OK? In the meantime I just want to get as much information as I can. What is your name again sir? My name is Merlin Jerzak (spells name). OK, what is your home phone number Merlin? I have where you are at and everything. (Gives home phone #), but I am at my neighbor’s… and that’s Dr. Jerry Wetterling? That is Dr Jerry Wetterling. How old is the individual that has not returned? (asks boys how old Jacob is). Eleven. Ok, Jacob, it’s Jacob, right? Yes, Jacob, Jacob Wetterling. OK, what was Jacob last seen wearing? (asks the boys). Just a minute. OK. He was wearing a red hockey jacket that had “police department” on it. And it has his name on it. Police department written on back? (asks boys to confirm Police department on back? In white letters?) In white letters. Where was the last contact made? Pardon? Where was the last time they seen Jacob? Where were they at about? (asks boys) It was uh right at the uh Urban Schriefels uh house. OK, give me an idea where that is. Do you know where Dr. Cotton’s office is? Yes, it’s uh about approximately a quarter of a mile up ah South from the clinic. OK, it would be about a quarter of a mile up South of? Dr. Cotton and child clinic. Hang on a second, OK? (relays all info gathered to dispatch party: male party did have a mask on … 11 year old Jacob. wearing red hockey jacket with white lettering on back, “police department” across the back). Was Jacob riding a bike? (asks boys). Yeah, he was riding his ten speed bike.
(operator relays info over scanner: no vehicle was seen, party approached them on foot, was riding bike, not known where bicycle is at this time. He made contact with individual approximately 1/2 mile south of Dr. Cotton’s dental clinic on 95th Ave. Where are the …. at this time? XXXX Kiwi Ct. gives address and directions to Wetterling’s house).
Can you? Merlin? Yeah. Give me information on this guy with the mask? I want color, anything those kids can remember. OK by the way, I don’t have a house number on my house. You are at the neighbors place though right? I am at the Wetterlings. I have a fire number. My fire number is *advertiser censored* and theirs is, uh. I am right next door, and mine is *advertiser censored*. Do the Wetterling’s have a house number on there? No they don’t, but they are right next door to mine. Um I think that my best bet is to let Trevor get on the phone here and he can describe to you what he saw and this type of thing. OK, hang on just a second (talks about fire numbers and location) OK, I am ready. OK, I will put Trevor on and he can, he can answer your questions. OK. We have him pretty well calmed down here. OK. Hello? Trevor? Yeah. You are talking to the sheriff’s office ok? Mmhmm. I want you to give me anything you can recall about this male party that approached you guys, ok? Well, he was, he was like, kind of, he was like a man. He was kind of like… He was large? Sort of. OK. He had like uh kind of like looks like these nylon things, as a mask. Do you know what color it was? Black. A black mask? Do you know what color jacket he had on? I think it was black too. Ok. Did you notice any jeans or anything? Yeah, just a second (asking others inaudible) Trevor, do you know what happened to your friend’s bicycle? Um no, we don’t know. Nobody knows what happened to that? Cause we had to just like run off into the woods. OK, you guys ran off into the woods but nobody knows what happened to Jacob, right? Yeah. OK. Can you think of anything else? Did the guy have… What? Did the guy have like a deep voice or anything like that you could remember? (Trevor asks others) It was very cold(?) OK, can you tell me, how big, compared to your dad or somebody how big would you say this guy was. He was about the size of Merle, the guy you were just talking to. OK, same height, same weight? Yeah. OK. Do you remember, and he had on a black mask and a black jacket. Do you know if the jacket was leather or nylon, did it have anything written on it? We couldn’t tell because it was so dark. OK. Can I talk to Merlin again real quick? Thank you. Yes? Merlin, how big are you? (laughs) OK, uh I am about 195 pounds and 5’10”. I know that’s hard for kids to pinpoint, but I have to try to figure out who he looks like. I am keeping you guys on hold because I am trying to talk to the officers at the same time, OK? So hang on just a second. (describes perpetrator over dispatch radio mask, approximately 195 pounds, 5’10” wearing a black mask and a black jacket). Your number is Adam John, right? AJ? Pardon? Your fire number is AJ 80? Right. (Merlin talks to boys- did the guy tell you guys to run into the woods?) Where are the woods at that the kids ran into? OK, it is a little bit to the south of Urban Schriefel’s um house. And, um ah it runs for about a quarter of a mile west. OK, I am hoping if Jacob would have ran into the woods or something if would have gotten lost or something. Do they know if he actually had contact with Jacob or anything like that? Yes, they just told me that the guy had a hold of Jacob and told them to run into the woods. Told the other two boys to run into the woods. Did they see any weapons at all or anything like that? Guns? Knives? He had a pistol. (operator relays info to police radio individual did have some type of hand gun). Can I talk to Trevor again? Yes, hold on. OK. Hello? Trevor, did you see the gun the individual had? Um, we couldn’t really see it, but we just, we sort of fell. OK, did he threaten you..? (Cut off) OK, do you guys see squad cars outside the residence? Um, what? There should be a squad…, can I talk to Merlin again? Yeah, I think the squad is at my house. Is it far? OK, can you guys open up the door and yell out to them. Yeah. OK I will tell them to go…, are you north or which direction are you from where the spot is? Um, South. Hold on. Merlin? (relays info about address on police radio). I got officer Bechtold in the house. OK. He is going to finish off the call from that end now, OK. More than likely we will be coming out with some dogs and stuff, OK? OK, good. Thank you very much. OK.

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So if they ran south and west of Urban's house, it would be to those other woods in back of that plowed field (where their bikes were in the ditch across from DR's driveway). There is another road back there behind that field that goes straight down to Kiwi Court. Back then, they may have just run cross country and not stayed on the road at all. Which makes more sense. It would be the quicker way of the triangle instead of running south down the road and the turning west to go to Kiwi Court.

The Clinic name is Dr. Cotton and Styles (not child). i thought Trevor said his voice was "low" where you have "cold" - not sure. Thanks so much for doing the transcript, JBrown!