2009.09.04 Cindy sent D.Casey/Hoover to remains site Addtional VIDEO RELEASED #2

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I have been reading here forever but haven't had much to add until just now.

KC says in her first phone call home "I have no clue where Caylee is. If I knew where Caylee was, do you think that any of this would be happening? No." this has bothered me for a long time because it feels like a rare honest statement but at the same time my gut feeling (heh) is that she does know where Caylee is. Until now I had been looking at that statement as if she may have had help in dumping the body. I think that idea kept me from seeing an alternative.

What we know:
-DC was poking around on Suburban and was very close to the body but did not find it (we assume).
-Parts of the body had been moved around the general area by animals and by weather.
-Neighbors said there had been a bad smell during the 31 days and that a dead dog had been found and determined to be the source of the smell.
-Hurricane Fay hit Florida August 18–24
-The laundry bag was found in a depressed area, like the bottom of a big dried up puddle.

What we assume:
-KC turned onto Suburban and parked at the end of the fence, got out, walked across the small clearing, and threw the laundry bag containing Caylee into the woods.

But what if... The reason DC did not find Caylee's remains was because the info he had to go on was based on where KC entered the woods to throw in the bag? And what if KC actually parked a little further up Suburban and entered the woods from BEHIND the crime scene, rather than approaching it from the small clearing (aka "the front")? Watch the DC video: as they walk along the road they zoom the camera in on every little break in the foliage that could be a path back into the woods, but that small clearing is never shown. Why is that?

So say KC entered the woods from further up Suburban, through a small path through the trees, and dumped the bag. Animals started to prey upon the contents and drag it off. During the 31 days the neighbors say they smelled something bad. So the body was very much decomposing at that time. I assume this is when the animals would have been most attracted to the area and done most of their damage. I also assume that the first act an animal would do is to take it's piece of the body to a different location so that any other animals attracted by the smell would not get it. So lets assume the body was separated pretty soon after KC discards it.

Then say she comes back towards the end of the 31 days (for whatever reason, maybe to check her handiwork/see if she was still homefree) but she could not find the body because it was no longer where she left it (further back in the woods) due to the animals. Hence, "I have no clue where Caylee is" is both an honest and dishonest statement.

And it ties into DC because how can he (allegedly) have directionsfrom KC, be so close, know exactly what to look for and still find nothing? Notice he doesn't approach the woods from that little clearing? Wouldn't that be a logical place to look? I think it would be. It was for Kronk. Well, not for DC because he's (allegedly) following KCs directions and she didn't enter from that clearing. And due to the animals, she doesn't really know where the actual body is anymore. She can only tell him to enter the woods where she did, look for the pavers that she noted when dumping the body, and keep an eye out for the trash bag/laundry bag that she put the body in. And perhaps DC is there, not to move the body, but to find out where it went/if it's visible. Because even KC doesn't know at that point, and that scares her and Baez.

This is where Fay comes in. DC could not find the laundry bag because he was looking for it at the original dump spot but the animals had drug it into that depressed area during the 31 days and the rain from Fay had kept it submerged in the bottom of a big muddy puddle. I think in the DC video, when he is poking at the pink blanket, Caylee's skull might be directly behind him, past the spiky plants. Look at the video and note those spiky plants. Those look like the same spiky plants in the crime scene pictures, with the police's blue tent set up. I looked through the DC video and I don't think I see those kind of plants anywhere else. And note that there seems to be a path through the woods to his right (our left). This is the path I think KC walked down to dump Caylee, not through the little clearing by the fence.

I am not great at visualizing the crime scene map vs the video vs pictures, so I fully expect someone with a better understanding of it to prove me wrong. But here is the DC video (spiky plants and the path at 5:05) and the photo (I think the path is behind the blue tent, which would mean at 5:05 DC is standing somewhere behind the big tree on the left side of the crime scene picture).
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T04rfgU5E8A[/ame]
 

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I agree with you re DC being the hireling of ICA and JB. And I was as anxious or even more so to read his deposition - which turned into being an investigative deposition.

THEN I read his emails between the psychics and himself. I have never in my life read such drivel. And these emails were after his employment with JB/ICA. I don't believe for one moment JB would trust CA with any information from ICA or any information that might he suspected might incriminate ICA - this was before Caylee's remains were found and he was still very busy being a star. In fact I think JB trusts no one.

So taking those thoughts further, I don't believe JB sent him out there, nor do I believe ICA gave JB information to pass on to CA/DC and won't until I hear it from DC's lips on a witness stand. I think DC has disappeared from our view because he is a nothing in this case. He brought nothing, he accomplished nothing except his terrified search we saw in the video with that disgusting slashing of anything close to him. I think he was just a silly pawn in the so-called psychics play/attempt at being "famous" for 15 minutes.

BBM.
I'm the exact opposite. I refuse to believe that ICA DIDN"T give them this information until I hear it from DC himself.
 
I think the reasoning for the differences between DC and RK both being in that location is simple. Dominic Casey has direct ties to the Anthony family and the Anthony home. Evidence found at the scene of the crime leads directly back to the Anthony home. It is Casey Anthony's car that smelled like a damn dead body. Evidence suggests that Caylee Anthony was in the trunk of that car.

Until someone gives me evidence to suggest that Roy Kronk had access to not only the Anthony home, but access to Casey's car, I think it is unfair to put him in the same category as Dominic Casey.

Oh, and one thing that seperates Roy Kronk from Dominic Casey is the fact that Roy Kronk called LE (directly or through a tip line)... not once, not twice, not three times, but FOUR times. Each time he was out there. Dominic Casey didn't call once even though he knew she was out there and even if he didn't know for sure (if we are to believe it came from psychics) there was evidence that she was there... and he left her out there. Jim Hoover is just as bad for not calling LE when he should have.

Another thing that makes me believe that Cindy Anthony sent DC out there is because she lied in her State deposition about it and Lee told the truth about it in his State deposition. She obviously had something to hide by lying about it.

I also hope that this is clarified at trial. I have to assume that DC holds some very dark secrets and that is the reason Cindy seems to be so upset with him. Cindy only feels betrayed when someone outs her... and it is my opinion that DC had no other choice, but to out her.

Logicalgirl, you do make me stop and think and that is what I love about your posts. I can't wait to watch this trial and hopefully we will walk away from this will a lot of our questions answered. I know we will never know the full truth of what happened to Caylee (the one person who does know will never tell), but we can hopefully get some answers as to other questions that have bothered us for almost three years.

ETA: The question of just what took DC out into those woods off Suburban Drive included.


BBM
Thank you for your patience with me LolaMoon. :loveyou: :peace: I guess the issue for me as this trial approaches is that I am reviewing my "assumptions" about this case as we get closer and closer to the trial date.

The weird thing is in "real time" I am very much an intuitive person - although I obviously love my logical thought also. In fact what happens is because I am pulled so strongly in both directions that every once in a while I try to step back, drop any "feelings" at all about a situation and just look at the facts - which brought up the DC/Kronk issue.

Yuk, it feels so wrong to type those two names in the same sentence:sick:

So it is not that I disagree with you at all, I'm just going through a "what if" to see if what I assume to be true is in fact true - at least as much as I can be sure of without more information. Hmm, even to me that sounds like .....:loser:
 
BBM.
I'm the exact opposite. I refuse to believe that ICA DIDN"T give them this information until I hear it from DC himself.

I'm with you-But I am not sure sure she gave it to DC voluntarily in order for him to go look, or if she was talking about it to JB in front of DC, as JB had assured her DC and he/she had privileges, and then DC took his own adventure from there.
Based on how frequently JH turns the camera to look back at the bush/tree combo with the pavers, I have to wonder if JH saw something that stood out to him as odd.
As a young, almost-70 year old man, JH has spent a lot of time using his eyeballs as his moneymakers. Years of practice for anyone doing that job would dictate a certain expertise in noticing detail-Just as former bondsman RoyK noticed detail.
I have to wonder if DC was purposefully darting back and forth past JH and then over deeper into the woods, maybe to draw JH away from that bush. DC does a whole lot of poking around, everywhere around the paver-tree/bush, but not inside the bush where JH focuses in on the blue thing.

What color was the package that the syringe was in?
 
My thought is ICA never admitted anything. The whole idea of KC's, imo, is to hurt CA in the worst way and also to get "rid" of Caylee. She would not "admit" anything in my opinion. So DC started looking behind the school - this, imo, is NOT SO INCREDIBLE by any stretch. DC would know that most criminals do return to the areas they "know". So KC's dumping Caylee behind the school is something I would "expect" her to do. DC is in the area, he knows it; he knows all about KC, where she went to school, etc. The psychic he spoke to or allegedly did said you will find her under water. What a shock, most psychics put the victims under water anyway. And there usually are "pavers" in areas like the one behind the school. It is like the shoes hanging from the lamp post. They are always there. It is no surprise to me that a psychic would say look behind the school. Big revelation - that is where KC went. I think DC told CA about it and she said look.

Also, If KioMarie could figure out that KC probably dumped Caylee there (sorry for the description), then I think Dominic Casey could also. There is another thread "comfort zone" and it says the same thing. This is the place KC knows; she is not that bright - gets that from Dad.

How she could not know that the body would begin decomposition in the Florida heat is beyond me. How she could not give that thought is beyond me. As usual, she thinks just far enough to keep her "comfort" zone too. Get rid of Caylee, just put her in the trunk and then I can be with Tony. That is on the 16th; by the 19th, the heat in Florida is oppressive and Caylee is decomposing. But just beginning to purge, but enough that the odor is potent. Then she dumps her.

I mean this girl needs to be in prison foreva.

I do not think KC will ever, ever admit she killed her child. Just mo. Thanks.

P.S. Read GA transcript with the FBI and he is adament that the smell in the trunk is decomposition and that it came directly from the middle area where the stain is and he said the odor hit when you got within three feet of the car. At the impound.
 
How big is this area? I just don't think he would be so darn close, basically almost on top of Caylee without knowing exactly where to look. Someone gave him things to look for, like the pavers. Someone told him almost exactly where Caylee was supposed to be. I do think he was a definite patsy, but he had to get that information somewhere and it was definitely NOT from Ginette Lucas. It had to be more specific than just the general place where pet bodies were buried. I though there were a lot of woods behind the school unless that area is so small that him just being in the area puts him close to the body. I don't think it's that small, though. He was definitely looking for specific things, not just hoping to come upon a skeleton. He knew the body was inside something. He knew to look for the pavers, and I think he knew to look for other things like the blanket. I think ICA somehow told her mom, and Cindy passed it on to DC, bringing in the psychic to eventually say it was the psychic who found her with DC's help to take attention off of Cindy. We all know how that family likes to talk in code. I bet they write in code too. And I bet Baez was dumb enough to not know code was being written when he read what Casey wrote. I think she got something by him to her mom, and Cindy took it from there with DC, the psychic, and JH. There is just no way, not the way he was looking or the things he was paying attention to, that this was a just a coincidence or a stroke of luck. Kronk, to me, was divine intervention. DC was sent to do the devil's work, and thankfully, he did NOT find Caylee's remains.
 
IMO As the trial gets closer, it seems the defense has returned on the boards, creating doubt.

Hah! Good Luck with that, eh? Pretty difficult - no let me say impossible to create doubt about ICA's guilt.:rocker:
 
BBM.
I'm the exact opposite. I refuse to believe that ICA DIDN"T give them this information until I hear it from DC himself.

I'm with you on this. I don't think we will ever know the truth, as the people involved don't tend to tell the truth even on little things, let alone something as big as this. However, it was something one of the PI's said when they were going out, something to the effect of, "Common, were going to find Caylee," and they went right to the field where Caylee lay. Which implies to me they had inside information, and where else could that come from but ICA, as no one else was involved. (I say that based on following the case and it is my opinion.) Now I have lived in S. FL for a long time, grew up hunting in woods just like that, and trained USAR not far from this area. I can tell you first hand that the vegetation is so thick in places that we would have to crawl to move through. You could literally be within 3 feet of an object on the ground and not see it, and that is more the norm than not.
 
I'm with you-But I am not sure sure she gave it to DC voluntarily in order for him to go look, or if she was talking about it to JB in front of DC, as JB had assured her DC and he/she had privileges, and then DC took his own adventure from there.
Based on how frequently JH turns the camera to look back at the bush/tree combo with the pavers, I have to wonder if JH saw something that stood out to him as odd.
As a young, almost-70 year old man, JH has spent a lot of time using his eyeballs as his moneymakers. Years of practice for anyone doing that job would dictate a certain expertise in noticing detail-Just as former bondsman RoyK noticed detail.
I have to wonder if DC was purposefully darting back and forth past JH and then over deeper into the woods, maybe to draw JH away from that bush. DC does a whole lot of poking around, everywhere around the paver-tree/bush, but not inside the bush where JH focuses in on the blue thing.

What color was the package that the syringe was in?

Ok. Reading your post and a thought popped in my head. It is an infuriating one, but considering the cast of characters we are dealing with in this case, one that would not surprise me in the least. Now, we know that DC was going and blowing under the assumption that he possessed the same A/C priviledge as JB did. Even JB himself seemed confused about this and kept spouting in court about A/C privilege with DC, and the SA would calmly inform him that there was NO priviledge between a client and the PI. Now, if the A's and JB thought they had a priviledge with DC just like with JB, there is no telling WHAT they may have shared with him. DC could be in possession of a wealth of good and damning information. The type of information that would make him a lot of money for a book deal after the trial. IF JB/KC/CA DID indeed tell him where to look for Caylee, not only will he be the bombshell at the trial, but he stands to be the go-to-guy for publishing a book afterwards. He would be the one person who could say "KC said...." and not get in trouble. Perhaps he was offered a deal by the SA for his testimony and now his own attorney or his own greed has made him lay low waiting to explode after the trial is over. No matter how you slice it, DC was right on top of that babys remains, and his only connection to this case is directly through the A clan. JMO, of course.
 
Ok. Reading your post and a thought popped in my head. It is an infuriating one, but considering the cast of characters we are dealing with in this case, one that would not surprise me in the least. Now, we know that DC was going and blowing under the assumption that he possessed the same A/C priviledge as JB did. Even JB himself seemed confused about this and kept spouting in court about A/C privilege with DC, and the SA would calmly inform him that there was NO priviledge between a client and the PI. Now, if the A's and JB thought they had a priviledge with DC just like with JB, there is no telling WHAT they may have shared with him. DC could be in possession of a wealth of good and damning information. The type of information that would make him a lot of money for a book deal after the trial. IF JB/KC/CA DID indeed tell him where to look for Caylee, not only will he be the bombshell at the trial, but he stands to be the go-to-guy for publishing a book afterwards. He would be the one person who could say "KC said...." and not get in trouble. Perhaps he was offered a deal by the SA for his testimony and now his own attorney or his own greed has made him lay low waiting to explode after the trial is over. No matter how you slice it, DC was right on top of that babys remains, and his only connection to this case is directly through the A clan. JMO, of course.

Wow, powerful thoughts!! And great post!
 
How big is this area? I just don't think he would be so darn close, basically almost on top of Caylee without knowing exactly where to look. Someone gave him things to look for, like the pavers. Someone told him almost exactly where Caylee was supposed to be. I do think he was a definite patsy, but he had to get that information somewhere and it was definitely NOT from Ginette Lucas. It had to be more specific than just the general place where pet bodies were buried. I though there were a lot of woods behind the school unless that area is so small that him just being in the area puts him close to the body. I don't think it's that small, though. He was definitely looking for specific things, not just hoping to come upon a skeleton. He knew the body was inside something. He knew to look for the pavers, and I think he knew to look for other things like the blanket. I think ICA somehow told her mom, and Cindy passed it on to DC, bringing in the psychic to eventually say it was the psychic who found her with DC's help to take attention off of Cindy. We all know how that family likes to talk in code. I bet they write in code too. And I bet Baez was dumb enough to not know code was being written when he read what Casey wrote. I think she got something by him to her mom, and Cindy took it from there with DC, the psychic, and JH. There is just no way, not the way he was looking or the things he was paying attention to, that this was a just a coincidence or a stroke of luck. Kronk, to me, was divine intervention. DC was sent to do the devil's work, and thankfully, he did NOT find Caylee's remains.

I just do not believe that KC will admit anything. She believes you did not see me and you can't prove it.

Mark Fuhrman did a five part series on this for a news channel and he said where else would she put the body; look at the vegetation here; it is a place where she would assume no one would find her and she almost got away with it. Still I think she would have been convicted.

KC kills her child in the afternoon like it was an errand and then has the audacity to come back and forth to the house to steal money and gas and pick up clothese. She is not concerned. She wants to get rid of the body around the 19th of June because the odor is incredible, so she goes to the nearest place and the one SHE KNOWS. Behind her school.

Remember, Tim looked here but it was so under water they did not find her.

That is one of the first places I would look. It is not a revelation. IMO. Anyone with half a brain would say lets look behind the school where the swamp is where the vegetation is thick.

I think the skull would have been found eventually by someone. Just so happens Roy Kronk found it after 7 months.
 
I just do not believe that KC will admit anything. She believes you did not see me and you can't prove it.

Mark Fuhrman did a five part series on this for a news channel and he said where else would she put the body; look at the vegetation here; it is a place where she would assume no one would find her and she almost got away with it. Still I think she would have been convicted.

KC kills her child in the afternoon like it was an errand and then has the audacity to come back and forth to the house to steal money and gas and pick up clothese. She is not concerned. She wants to get rid of the body around the 19th of June because the odor is incredible, so she goes to the nearest place and the one SHE KNOWS. Behind her school.

Remember, Tim looked here but it was so under water they did not find her.

That is one of the first places I would look. It is not a revelation. IMO. Anyone with half a brain would say lets look behind the school where the swamp is where the vegetation is thick.

I think the skull would have been found eventually by someone. Just so happens Roy Kronk found it after 7 months.


IMO - a perfect analysis...

and thank you for the Mark Furhman reminder - I was wracking my brain up thread to include his name in a list of "the baby is dead"
 
its been awhile since I last viewed that video...but it convinces me 100% that he knew Caylee was there...and that she had been buried. There is no other explanation for him continually poking the ground with that pole. He just simply couldn't find her in all that garbage and overgrowth.

what a sham and a shame...:sick:

Well, she wasn't buried though was she. And he was pretty close to her skull, but it is also pretty close to the road and one of the easier places to enter that dumping ground.

But the Dufus looks like he is actually looking for an intact body when Caylee's little bones were scattered over an acre. Small wonder he didn't "find" her. Who believes a body tossed into a wasteland still looks like a body after six months?? And this guy was trying to pass himself off as a PI?

Or was he buying a story from Baez that the body had been moved or dumped at a later date? Which ever way....:loser:
 
I was beginning to rewatch the DC video but at the very beginning I saw that abandoned house and I am trying to find where exactly that house was in respect to where she was found. Can anyone describe to me where that was? Do we have an address for it? TIA
 
I was beginning to rewatch the DC video but at the very beginning I saw that abandoned house and I am trying to find where exactly that house was in respect to where she was found. Can anyone describe to me where that was? Do we have an address for it? TIA

My memory tells me it was the last house on the block, next to the area of "wildness" and weirdly was owned by a "Gonzales" family. And as you say, abandoned for a number of years. We had all kinds of conspiracy discussions about it.

But sometimes my memory is.......:loser:
 
My memory tells me it was the last house on the block, next to the area of "wildness" and weirdly was owned by a "Gonzales" family. And as you say, abandoned for a number of years. We had all kinds of conspiracy discussions about it.

But sometimes my memory is.......:loser:

Last house on Hopespring? So if you're walking from the A's, the last house on the right where you then turn right onto Suburban? It just looks so rural in the video...
 
The house is close

Here is the thread where it was sleuthed

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77931&highlight=let's+find+house

Lets find the house that PI was digging and filming

Thanks both of you! That's the thread I was looking for..it was before my time here. When I look at google maps, all the houses seem so manicured I can't find it on there...I also can't picture exactly where the privacy fence is...is it perpendicular to Suburban, running parallel to the houses on Hopespring?
 
One thing that helps to get perspective of this area, is to go to google maps using Suburban & Hopespring Drive, Orlando, Fl, and get the satellite view . . . ( sorry I can't remember the A's address) but I don't think you need it.
 

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