2011.05.28 - KC upset during break when CA testifies

I do agree with the many posters who think at some point, ICA has to understand/realize this whole thing is about Caylee's death and not about getting her out of jail and she is mad mad mad.

I have a relative by marriage who is a pathological liar. She has a pyschiatric condition for sure, but in there is a lot of paranoia. She won't eat out of others homes because shei s sure someone will poison her, she won't eat anywhere at all but home, she believes, literally, that any woman who looks at her husband he is having an affair with etc etc. Paranoia is the worst part because it stops her from getting help. She is sure if she goes to the dr he will give her meds that will kill her or lock her up in the hospital. It is devasatating to watch it play out. Her parents for her whole life and tiptoed and eggshelled around her. They pretend themselves it is not happening. They will tell you she lies, BUT ONLY ABOUT THEM. If she says anything about anyone else it is the truth. It is exhausting from the outside looking in and i can't imagine being in the middle. Alot of what they do is for their grandd because there have been many times they have been not allowed to know their address or phone number if something doesn't quite go her way. She has had 14 jobs in a year because she doesn't get a long with co workers, lies and fights, she has no education, quit school when she was in 8th grade. She is 30 now, and really it is not better.

When I see GA/CA I think about these relatives and wonder if possibly if this was them would they act the same..and really feel like they would. The amount of denial, not my kid, oh that is just the way they are is mind boggling no matter how hard you try to tell them differently. I do think there is something really wrong with all of the family in that house. IMHO. I am not a dr so there is no way i could begin to understand.

I really believe, imho,ICA thought her parents would fix this, like everything else. They aren't for the first time and that has to be devastating to her, trying to figure out how to do it herself or get them back.

This trail has really turned into a bad movie plot. I just can't believe that no matter what, a good mother does not PRETEND her dd is at a sitter for 31 days partying it up because dad told her too. No way in heck. I am assuming that they are throwing that out there to say hey,ICA kept her dad/lee's secret why wouldn't she keep this one. Just my opinion so far, but I still hope CA and GA continue to tell the truth. They can not help her at all.

Kelly

cuppy199 said:

hwow: Does this mean Im strange to I love my eeyore my bedroom and the rest of my house is full of eeyore and Im 42 years old :crazy:

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A friend of mine is about your age and she has a Pooh themed kitchen. I don't think it's strange if you like the characters. Why not? It's your space.

Chiquita71 said:

You can watch Casey wait till Cindy is out of the courtroom before her tantrum takes place. She is complaining as she watches the tail end of Cindy go...she watches to make sure...she...is gone...and bam! Here go the water works.

Casey has to get sympathy from the new family now, they understand her...each of the ladies DS and the "dark lady" I do not know her name came to comfort Casey...but not Baez or CM.

Casey has gotten herself into the ultimate corner. And I think Casey's ego never made it past two and a half years old.

:websleuther:

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somehwere I read/heard that CA went out and hugged GA...that is what started the tantrum imo---

Marple said:

A friend of mine is about your age and she has a Pooh themed kitchen. I don't think it's strange if you like the characters. Why not? It's your space.

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I am 49 and have Pooh slippers...who gives a rip. The issue might be the crossover of all of ICA's toys going to Caylee and what that did to her...but then I grew up poor and everything I had was hand me down...I was glad to have it....ICA sociopathy is in her reactions to everything in her life...I am sure she was pizzled that any other girl in the world would dare to have Pooh...more or less her own child. JMO.

LCoastMom said:

How can she not "get it", when JB said GA put his penis in ICA's mouth all bets were off...how can she even think CA could go along with this line of BS. Just shows the extent of the fantasy world ICA lives in.

Didn't her DT warn her that CA/GA weren't on board with this? I find it hard to believe.

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You know, I wouldn't be surprised if she had been warned by the DT that her parents weren't going to lay on the train tracks willingly but at the same time, I can see where Casey wouldn't buy it.

This girl has been coddled, encouraged and allowed to lie her way through life. Her parents let it go on for faaaaaar too long, in their home and right under their noses. And I'm sure Casey got yelled at and threatened with punishments before that never materialized. What's one more time, KWIM? She probably still went into this trial thinking that her parents would choose to support her and go along with whatever bs story was going to be told. Her fit was a temper tantrum in reaction to the realization that for the first time, they were really going through with "punishment."

spyhouston said:

Just watched the video for the millionth time. Interesting, when CM tells EF something to tell ICA, the second EF moves in to talk to her, DS, moves away, almost JUMPS away over to her paperwork and puts as much distance as possible between her and ICA. Reminds me of the meltdown on the jailhouse visit with CA and GA. When that starts happening, CA very calmly says to ICA, "talk to your dad" and passes the phone. This handling in my opinion is long-time method of dealing with ICA's meltdowns. And obviously the DT has learned to do the same thing. I bet DS was wishing she had an eject button on her chair when EF took over. Kinda like a tag team rather than a DT.

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Who is EF? :waitasec:

:nevermind: I think you mean Lisabeth Fryer.

Mountain_Kat said:

That's EXACTLY what I thought, Newsjunkie. She's playing to the camera, making sure we can all read her lips, and she's saying something to the effect of, " She's protecting him. She cares more about him than she does her own daughter!"

I truly believe ICA expected for CA to be the same old doormat she's always been, and she's absolutely livid that Cindy put a hand in her face today and said, "No more, Casey. I'm done."

Good for CA! I was proud of her today.

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This is the mom we first saw day 31-32 until the koolaid....I always liked this mom the best.....jmo

Amil said:

After sleeping with this on my mind I have come to the conclusion that CA's change of demeanor is a tool which may cause a juror to think twice about giving ICA a death sentence.
OT- the grass never grew there again after GA put lyme there to cover the odor.

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BBM

The jury has never seen CA before, the woman they are seeing on the stand is the only CA they know. They are unaware that this is new behavior for Cindy. They are listening to lie after lie after lie that KC told. I don't think Cindy's testimony - so far anyway - would cause a juror to be more sympathetic to KC.

Sharai said:

There is evidence to support the idea that sociopaths are the result of a combination/interaction of biological components and environmental components. True psychopaths/sociopaths lack empathy. They place no greater value on individuals than they do objects, i.e., if its no longer useful, get rid of it. The clinical diagnosis for antisocial personality disorder is: 1)failure to conform to social norms, 2)decietfulness, manipulativeness; 3)impulsivetivity, failure to plan ahead; 4)irritablity, aggressiveness; 5)reckless disregard for the safety of self or others; 6)consistent irresponsibility; 7)lack of remorse after having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another person. Three (3) of these symptoms give reasonable suspicion for this diagnosis. (from The Sociopath Next Door). Sadly, Casey is just one of many "charming" individuals happily living a parasitic life at the expense others. If she is found guilty (which I believe she is and hope she will) she will probably live out her days quite content using her charm and manipulation within a new arena. She will adjust, better than most of us would, to prison life. Stay safe folks.

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BBM Great post. Believe it was in the '80's a psychiatrist named F Scott Peck wrote a book titiled "People of the Lie." After practicing in mental institutions for many years, and dealing with broken families and individuals, he came to some conclusions and presented his thesis in the form of this book. He came to the conclusion that some individual's, while being neither mentally ill (by the DSM's, Diagnostic Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) standards nor necessarily criminal, defied categorization. Thus he proposed the DSM add a new category and label it 'evil.' I found the case studies in the book fascinating and his idea brilliant. It was criticized by the scientific community as bordering on religion, which I did not necessarily agree with. Regarding the nature vs nurture debate, Dr Peck proposed that we are the sum total of our life choices. Beginning in young childhood, we are presented with choices every moment of the day: how we use our time, how we respond in a given situation, how we relate to others, etc etc etc. The effects of our choices over time determine our character, i.e., who we are. Good/right/proper/correct choices point us in one direction, while bad/improper/inappropriate choices point us in another. It is difficult to explain but if anyone is interested, I do highly recommend reading his book. It was a real eye opener for me. That said, I do believe we are the product of both: nature and nurture.

ETA Hope this isn't too far off topic (it was discussed in many posts.) To go back on topic, that meltdown provided much grist for the mill. Lots of analysis to consider further.

Amil said:

After sleeping with this on my mind I have come to the conclusion that CA's change of demeanor is a tool which may cause a juror to think twice about giving ICA a death sentence.
OT- the grass never grew there again after GA put lyme there to cover the odor.

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There is good reason to suspect that Cindy may do that, given her behavior with Casey in the past. Every time I thought things might have changed, they'd revert back to the old behavior.

I believe things are different now. First of all, neither Cindy, Casey (nor the DT at this point) is/are in control any longer. I don't doubt the DT will try their darndest to muddy the waters but the wind is out of their sails with yesterday's testimony, IMO. We've watched Linda deftly peel back the layers of Casey's intricate lies and deception. Linda is masterful at this and she will be successful. HHJP has her back, and will ensure it is done to the letter of the law. Cindy and George now realize their princess would throw them away like trash, as they now know she did with Caylee. They are in the process (and it is a process, like methodically peeling back an onion) of coming to terms with this. We've only witnessed it for 3 years but they've been living it for 25 long years. I wouldn't be surprised if they are getting some psychological counseling to help them (I sincerely hope they have.) At the least, they need a good support system. Looks like they are drawing support from one another. And Lippman has done wonders with them, IMO. Amil, have you been in the courtroom during the trial at all?

Jo in Calif said:

I can still hear Cindy telling Casey, in her first phone call home.
"Sweet heart, who's fault is it that you are sitting in jail."
Sweetheart is going to be sitting in jail for a very long time, because of what she did, not because of the fault of anyone else.

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I always loved day 31 Cindy.....

DairyGirl said:

The said fact is that most of us have known that Caylee has been gone for 3 years. For CA she has only known for about 6 weeks.

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I haven't read all the posts yet, so this may have been addressed. I don't think CA really thought Caylee was alive until 6 weeks ago. I think she was still looking for Zanny because she thought Zanny, not Casey, killed Caylee and wanted Zanny to be held accountable for that.

I think she had herself convinced of that.

I'm very proud of Cindy and her courtroom behavior thus far. She's doing a great job! However, I do worry that Casey's tears and "breakdown" seen on Saturday are very familiar to Cindy and something Casey has used many, many times in the past to get her way and persuade Cindy to change her course.

For example, if in the past Casey wanted to purchase an outrageous, unnecessary item for herself, and Cindy was against the purchase and would not in fact pay for it (since Casey didn't work or bring in any income or contribute at home), I believe Casey would throw a fit as she did yesterday, carry on, cry, stamp her feet until Cindy gave in.

It was button-pushing at its finest. And Cindy would cave again and again. I only hope Cindy can resist the button pushing here and now and stay determined to simply speak the truth no matter what for the sake of her deceased granddaughter Caylee.

Stay strong, Cindy.

"3 years for nothing."

I think ICA is saying she waited 3 years to tell her lie and get off her 1st degree murder charges and now her mother has ruined it all. Her mother is going to put her on death row. She waited 3 years to tell her lie to get off all for nothing.

Beatrice said:

Casey upset by what a family mrmber says about her?! Wow! (sarcasm)

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Agree with You...
I think she is wearing down the Defense Team like she wore down the A's.
Maybe CA is done with defending her and now her team is having a go at it.
The D team right now is really in the same position her parents were the only difference is the A's had a stake in ICA's life because of Caylee.
The D Team not so much. If getting her off is the stake the D Team has in ICA's life good luck with that.

carole said:

I remembered her talking about getting the Pooh stuff for Caylee but completely missed that Casey had it. It does seem too juvenile for a 16 year old, a lot of teenage girls like stuffed animals and such, but Pooh decorations do seem a little strange. But then Casey is, if anything, strange!!

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I found that a bit odd too (just MOO) to have a Pooh room at 16. My son at 13 won't even allow a teddy in is room and they are all in storage (I refuse to part with them). His room is as adult looking as mine, sans a few x-box game posters.

As a teen I didn't have a theme room in any way shape or form. I just used my favourite color blue. I would love to see a pic of ICA's room at 16 wouldn't you?

MOO

Mel

stilettos said:

I am 49 and have Pooh slippers...who gives a rip. The issue might be the crossover of all of ICA's toys going to Caylee and what that did to her...but then I grew up poor and everything I had was hand me down...I was glad to have it....ICA sociopathy is in her reactions to everything in her life...I am sure she was pizzled that any other girl in the world would dare to have Pooh...more or less her own child. JMO.

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BBM.
This is interesting. I have always thought that much of the rage she felt was because she was being 'replaced' by Caylee. When they had the fight and Cindy threatened to take custody of Caylee, that was infuriating because Casey would have been out on her ear.
Casey Marie Anthony was going to be replaced by Caylee Marie Anthony, and placed in a new updated Winnie the Pooh bedroom. And Casey Marie was not going to allow that.

ICA - (she covers her mouth)...she's protecting the man that hurt me. she's gonna sit here and protect him. she's never protected me, she's not even trying now."
DS - well she has to be given a chance, Casey...
ICA - she's been given the chance for three years, and she's done nothing!
DS - i know.
ICA - i mean, how can you say she hasn't been given the chance, she has a chance every single night.
DS - you're right, i was wrong...you're right, i was wrong.
(camera pans - cant read. DS covers her mouth)
ICA - enough to be aquitted, so i can get away from them.

a little iffy on the first line...

ICA - i've wanted for them to help me but i cant get out when she's with my dad. and that hurts so bad. she hasn't looked at me once the entire time she was making her cry. (looks at LDB)
ICA (to CM) - yeah, she did the other day. she was looking at him, she hasn't done any of that for me. i really think she's just doing it to do it for her, sh'e not doing it for Caylee - she's doing it wrong.

hard to read the last part since she's wiping her face.

truthsleuth said:

I'm very proud of Cindy and her courtroom behavior thus far. She's doing a great job! However, I do worry that Casey's tears and "breakdown" seen on Saturday are very familiar to Cindy and something Casey has used many, many times in the past to get her way and persuade Cindy to change her course.

For example, if in the past Casey wanted to purchase an outrageous, unnecessary item for herself, and Cindy was against the purchase and would not in fact pay for it (since Casey didn't work or bring in any income or contribute at home), I believe Casey would throw a fit as she did yesterday, carry on, cry, stamp her feet until Cindy gave in.

It was button-pushing at its finest. And Cindy would cave again and again. I only hope Cindy can resist the button pushing here and now and stay determined to simply speak the truth no matter what for the sake of her deceased granddaughter Caylee.

Stay strong, Cindy.

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I think Baez put an end to Cindy's habit of caving in by making that vile Opening Statement. There is no coming back from that. In that moment Casey cut ties with the only 3 people that had really been there for her through all of this.

wallflower67 said:

I haven't read all the posts yet, so this may have been addressed. I don't think CA really thought Caylee was alive until 6 weeks ago. I think she was still looking for Zanny because she thought Zanny, not Casey, killed Caylee and wanted Zanny to be held accountable for that.

I think she had herself convinced of that.

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I have looked at it a bit differently. I've always believed Cindy knows ICA is responsible for Caylee's death and even that there was no Zanny.She admitted that in earlier LE interviews when she said she now believes Zanny could be (code for) anyone who was watching Caylee.
Once Caylee's body was found CA knew ICA's only chance was for people to believe there MIGHT BE a nanny.She had to continue the pretense in the hopes that it would create reasonable doubt.
Having said that,I have seen nothing that indicates CA EVER looked for a Zanny or a nanny.