IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #18

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Who's Who in the Lauren Spierer Case, Updated 06-30-11 (by the Herald Times Online)
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Bloomington Police search for missing 20 year old woman

She is a white female, 4 feet 11 inches tall, slender build, has blue eyes and long blonde hair. She is listed as a student according to IU Bloomington's website.

Spierer was last seen walking south on College Avenue from 11th Street on her way back to her apartment in Smallwood Plaza, located on College Avenue.

She did not arrive to her apartment and video footage does not show her entering the apartment complex.
Spierer was wearing a white tank top with a loose, light colored button shirt over it and full length black stretch pants. She was not wearing shoes.

Re: the photo released Wednesday, 06-15-2011, of Lauren leaving Smallwood Apartments the evening of June 2, 2011. ttp://www.idsnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=81929



http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-laure...,1261306.story
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I believe the "activity" that LE is referring to is the person or persons that may have "surprised" LS and CR as they arrived at 5 North. Perhaps some unfinished business from the altercation earlier in the night or JW looking for LS as she was supposed to be at his house that night. The "activity" may also be what caused LS to lose the change purse and keys. I stated this theory early on in this case in that I believed there were people "waiting" for LS/CR to arrive. It could have been for several reasons and that is why there could be several people that could be included as "waiters." Whomever it was, it would be someone (possibly more than 1) that appears on that tape that LE is holding close to the vest because that was the beginning of what would become a missing Lauren. JMO

Please help us Find Lauren this a a small group of wonderful people who are trying everything to keep Lauren's story alive and the BPD to search Landfills

https://www.facebook.com/editprofile.php?sk=basic&success=1#!/groups/LoveForLauren?ap=1

Thanks a bunch we will never give up on Lauren <3

Expert: Loss of memory common after head injury

Spierer’s friend says he can’t remember altercation at Smallwood the night she disappeared
By Dana Denny
July 17, 2011

Bloomington neurosurgeon Souheil Haddad said memory loss is very common after a head injury.

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http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/07/17/news.qp-5830818.sto

bessie said:

Expert: Loss of memory common after head injury

Spierer&#8217;s friend says he can&#8217;t remember altercation at Smallwood the night she disappeared
By Dana Denny
July 17, 2011



http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/07/17/news.qp-5830818.sto

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Interesting article, but not necessarily convincing. Why? Because in the case of that POI we do not know whether he suffered head injury. He was punched, but there were no reports of him losing consciousness and he never went to a hospital to have tests. It may very well still be that the claimed memory loss is a memory loss of convenience.

I for one would be proud to get down in all that trash and look for Lauren! I could care less about the $ and resources it would take! I can not look at her parents without crying.
I have a question-i AB possible 1 of the construction workers TG mentioned? Ive tried to keep up everyday so maybe i missed this convo.tia

aproudmom said:

Please help us Find Lauren this a a small group of wonderful people who are trying everything to keep Lauren's story alive and the BPD to search Landfills

https://www.facebook.com/editprofile.php?sk=basic&success=1#!/groups/LoveForLauren?ap=1

Thanks a bunch we will never give up on Lauren <3

Click to expand...

Thanks for this. I just read a post on this site, stating that the Spierer family would like to put pressure on LE to check the landfills. I think this was posted yesterday. I'm curious why this pressure is just occurring.....did the Spierers think the landfills had already been checked until this most recent statement was made by LE to the contrary? If they were under the same assumption as we, it sure sounds as though LE are not keeping them in the loop.

British said:

Interesting article, but not necessarily convincing. Why? Because in the case of that POI we do not know whether he suffered head injury. He was punched, but there were no reports of him losing consciousness and he never went to a hospital to have tests. It may very well still be that the claimed memory loss is a memory loss of convenience.

Click to expand...

You may be right about the "memory loss of convenience." However, just because someone doesn't lose consciousness does not mean that he didn't have a brain injury or even a concussion (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001802/). That's one of the biggest misconceptions about concussions.

/steps off soapbox :innocent:

I personally think that if he does have memory loss, it is more likely to be a result of drugs.

aproudmom said:

Please help us Find Lauren this a a small group of wonderful people who are trying everything to keep Lauren's story alive and the BPD to search Landfills

https://www.facebook.com/editprofile.php?sk=basic&success=1#!/groups/LoveForLauren?ap=1

Thanks a bunch we will never give up on Lauren <3

Click to expand...

I just sent my Join Request to the group. Thanks for posting the link.

Bessie-

I'm sorry, but I don't know how to quote something from a previous thread. This was something that you stated at the end of the last thread, snipped by me:

".... I didn't get a sense that the "activities" were especially relevant. Walking is an activity. If the video shows an untoward incident occurred during the walk to CR's apartment involving an individual other than LS and CR -- who has a witness to vouch he went home and passed out -- the investigation would have progressed further than its apparent present status. The video would provide a strong lead, and the pleas for information wouldn't be necessary.

But regardless of what information the video holds, LE is under no obligation to divulge its contents."

Yes, they don't have to divulge contents. I understand that, but why divulge something if it's not important? When they give such little info, why waste time commenting on irrelevancies? I guess I would think they aren't going refer to things like maybe seeing CR pick his nose on the way back to 5 North, or just walking. That's why I think it's an important detail, and perhaps a message to let some know they have seen something. I'm curious though, why you think that any relevant activity would have progressed the case further. Why do you think that activities pertinent to the case would provide a strong enough lead that they wouldn't still have to be beginning for more information? I ask respectively, b/c I'm genuinely interested in your opinion.

IMO the "activities" could involve people walking in that area who are POIs. They could involve some drug use. They could involve some "making out". They could involve AB being shown walking towards where he found the keys (and maybe the video shows something doesn't add up to his story). There are many different things that could have happened - any or all of those. I would imagine that none of these activities would push the case forward any more than it is, b/c none of these are strong enough evidence for a conviction of anyone. Even if there would be waiters shown, who are pushing CR around again - nothing would point to murder, yet when they get just out of camera's shot, an accident could have happened. IMO these types of activities WOULD be why they would be pushing friends to ask for more details. If they have nothing on video to support rumors (ie. drugs, fight, etc), then why would they assume the friends know more than they do? I really am curious about this b/c I haven't "followed" cases like this before. I just wouldn't think that LE would ASSUME these boys know more, only based on some people saying that she did drugs with them. Am I way off?

Pedrosmom said:

I believe the "activity" that LE is referring to is the person or persons that may have "surprised" LS and CR as they arrived at 5 North. Perhaps some unfinished business from the altercation earlier in the night or JW looking for LS as she was supposed to be at his house that night. The "activity" may also be what caused LS to lose the change purse and keys...

Click to expand...

I think there could have been either 1) another surprise encounter or 2) a planning meeting, even. Someone from the attack at SW might have followed, even taking a different route, or maybe CR and LS planned on meeting someone by the gravel lot (after picking something up at SW)? I also think that LS might have simply dropped her keys upon stumbling or something ... and then gotten distracted by something more important or simply couldn't find them. I've dropped keys before at night in a sober state and couldn't find them, actually. What I do find odd is that someone else stumbled upon them at about the time she might have dropped them, given the timetable.

BTW, re: your earlier post about West Bloomfield: You and thesaint are actually both right. I lived a half hour away from West Bloomfield, MI, for most of my life. West Bloomfield itself IS swanky and has high-end shopping, restaurants, etc. But it's also within a 10-mile radius of at least 25 inland lakes, some large, some small, some with public access, many with private homes surrounding them. Orchard Lake, which is like a mile away, is large and deep (and has an island on it). But much of the area is also congested with year-round/summer homes and boats. OTOH, this would be JR's stomping grounds, for what it's worth ...

Gabby - this isn't directed at you, as I think yours was just a typo, but I do want to re-emphasize that AA is the person who was found by MSM and when interviewed he said he saw the key/purse on the floor around 3 AM. Afterward, his friend (no ID known) moved them to the railing.
There is absolutely NOTHING anywhere that ties AA to the case other than he saw keys.

AB is a person who is rumored to reside with ZO, and again, there is NOTHING to say that he has any involvement in this case. His involvement has come by way of his friendship with ZO, and his appearance possibly fitting a description of a witness that sighted LS with a man at a time or place unverified by LE.

I think it is good that we are aware of the people around and about, but IMHO (and MHO only) recently, we have been a little too quick to associate random people with criminal activity without substantiation.

The person rumored to be JRs guest is especially troublesome. One site claims they attended the same HS, they did not. And the only thing that this person has done is to be from Michigan and to be eating a meal in Bloomington. There is no reason this person should be even mentioned.

jmho and all that... I think the internet is getting a little too witch-hunty for my tastes on this case.

elmomom said:

I think it is good that we are aware of the people around and about, but IMHO (and MHO only) recently, we have been a little too quick to associate random people with criminal activity without substantiation.



jmho and all that... I think the internet is getting a little too witch-hunty for my tastes on this case.

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Since I've been a "lurker" rather than a poster for quite some time, I've also found that to be true. So many of the "theories" become almost "factual" for many posters -- and then they are further embellished. It's hard to keep track of the facts vs the possibilities/probabilities.

I read a few threads back that the Spierer family had hired a private investigator. I wonder if he has recommended the landfill search.

elmomom said:

Gabby - this isn't directed at you, as I think yours was just a typo, but I do want to re-emphasize that AA is the person who was found by MSM and when interviewed he said he saw the key/purse on the floor around 3 AM. Afterward, his friend (no ID known) moved them to the railing.
There is absolutely NOTHING anywhere that ties AA to the case other than he saw keys.

AB is a person who is rumored to reside with ZO, and again, there is NOTHING to say that he has any involvement in this case. His involvement has come by way of his friendship with ZO, and his appearance possibly fitting a description of a witness that sighted LS with a man at a time or place unverified by LE.

I think it is good that we are aware of the people around and about, but IMHO (and MHO only) recently, we have been a little too quick to associate random people with criminal activity without substantiation.

The person rumored to be JRs guest is especially troublesome. One site claims they attended the same HS, they did not. And the only thing that this person has done is to be from Michigan and to be eating a meal in Bloomington. There is no reason this person should be even mentioned.

jmho and all that... I think the internet is getting a little too witch-hunty for my tastes on this case.

Click to expand...

Yes, it was a typo. Thanks for correcting.

re the landfill search: I'm really more interested in knowing if the transfer station has been searched, since all of the trash goes there first. Perhaps that's what the BPD meant when they originally talked about landfills being searched. And I would think that cadaver dogs there might be helpful. IF the cadaver dogs picked up a scent, then I think that would really support the need for a landfill search!

bloom54 said:

re the landfill search: I'm really more interested in knowing if the transfer station has been searched, since all of the trash goes there first. Perhaps that's what the BPD meant when they originally talked about landfills being searched. And I would think that cadaver dogs there might be helpful. IF the cadaver dogs picked up a scent, then I think that would really support the need for a landfill search!

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I've brought this up before... a case I was really interested (John Wheeler murder in DE) taught me a lot about landfills that I never knew. One thing I learned is that many of them have trained spotters who watch over the trash for items that are not allowable in the landfill - which is how Wheeler's body was found.
I haven't heard that this landfill uses spotters (?), but since it does use a transfer station, I do hope that the likelihood that a body would be spotted is higher than normal...

Also, there is a RUMOR RUMOR RUMOR around that LS's pants were discovered at a different location during the searches. IF IF IF this does turn out to be true, then maybe BPD has reason not to suspect the landfill scenario. But it is just a RUMOR RUMOR RUMOR. So, if anyone quotes me on this, please include RUMOR in the quote!!!!!

When LE has done landfill searches in the past, it is a very tedious process that takes weeks sometimes and can't really be done without being noticed, i.e. the press would have known if a true landfill search was taking place, I believe. The murders of Jennifer and Abby Blagg in Grand Junction, CO is one search I remember reading about (Jennifer was eventually found) and there have been others. If they were to do this now, after two months (almost) they would have to move truckloads of refuse to even get to the section where they might possibly find her. A huge project, in any case.

Pedrosmom said:

I believe the "activity" that LE is referring to is the person or persons that may have "surprised" LS and CR as they arrived at 5 North. Perhaps some unfinished business from the altercation earlier in the night or JW looking for LS as she was supposed to be at his house that night. The "activity" may also be what caused LS to lose the change purse and keys. I stated this theory early on in this case in that I believed there were people "waiting" for LS/CR to arrive. It could have been for several reasons and that is why there could be several people that could be included as "waiters." Whomever it was, it would be someone (possibly more than 1) that appears on that tape that LE is holding close to the vest because that was the beginning of what would become a missing Lauren. JMO

Click to expand...

I think that's a good theory...

Another that I've been wondering about (purely speculation, of course), is that the "activity" may have involved "key hits" of cocaine. Makes sense considering they were in an alley & wanted to quickly get a high without being detected. Also could possibly account for dropped keys following this activity (maybe they were in someone's pocket up until that point), and would make sense, out of respect to Lauren's family, why LE is beating around the bush a bit with that one. JMO, of course

cluciano63 said:

When LE has done landfill searches in the past, it is a very tedious process that takes weeks sometimes and can't really be done without being noticed, i.e. the press would have known if a true landfill search was taking place, I believe. The murders of Jennifer and Abby Blagg in Grand Junction, CO is one search I remember reading about (Jennifer was eventually found) and there have been others. If they were to do this now, after two months (almost) they would have to move truckloads of refuse to even get to the section where they might possibly find her. A huge project, in any case.

Click to expand...

I must say I have learned a lot about landfills from this thread!

Is landfill searching something that volunteers could help out with, or would the liability to searchers be so great/they would need so much supervision that it would still be impractical?