CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - # 7

Cubby said:

If one looks at the missing persons report and well being check, one will see SIL originally told his wife ... he last saw Bob at 11:00 am, yet it wasn't for a full 10 hours did someone from Bobs CA family call in a well being check. 10 hours!

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I wouldn't find this, in itself, to be unusual. You can't be calling the police every time you cannot locate an adult who may just be away from home for several hours. I actually think it would be more suspicious to call quickly- like you knew he was really missing and not just out visiting. Of course, taken as a whole the circumstances are suspicious.

Cracka*Jaxx said:

I wouldn't find this, in itself, to be unusual. You can't be calling the police every time you cannot locate an adult who may just be away from home for several hours. I actually think it would be more suspicious to call quickly- like you knew he was really missing and not just out visiting. Of course, taken as a whole the circumstances are suspicious.

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I might find a quick call suspicious for a younger person. I wouldn't find it at all suspicious regarding an elderly person in their 80's living alone.

In fact, I don't think I would have driven the few hour drive home without knowing where my elderly family member was if I hadn't seen him or her for 7 or so hours - especially coming from their residence. I would have been making calls to my spouse and my local family members prior to making that drive back - if I were not involved in their disappearance.

jmo

Cracka*Jaxx said:

There are an awful lot of oblivious people in that neighborhood!

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It may be LE has that information and has not released it to the public. I'm sure there is a lot they are holding close to the vest to not tip their hand to any potential suspects.

jmo

__________________________________________________ ___

Daughter J states her father disappears around noon or 1 pm.

Reporter: “J says her husband was with her dad, at his home yesterday. He went to the hardware store alone. When he came back…”

J: “My dad was gone.”

Reporter: “What time?”

J: “We’re thinking maybe 1, noon?”

http://www.ktla.com/videobeta/watch/...9354&src=front
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~11:00AM-12:00? – Daughter PB says she called her father and heard her BIL say he was going to the hardware store, and her father “responded in a favorable way.” ( IS post and since removed )

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July 28, 2009~~ Daughter J posted on ROTW at 1:50 pm and says that her father has been missing for about 28 hours. That would put the time of Mr. Harrod's disappearance at about 10:00 am on July 27, 2009. (She has removed this post)

http://rimoftheworld.net/discuss/166/53721?page=0

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Robert’s son-in-law told cops that in the late morning on July 27, 2009, he had left Robert to run errands at the hardware store, and when he returned, Robert was gone.

http://www.amw.com/fugitives/case.cfm?id=67544

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Robert Harrod was last seen at his residence on July 27, 2009 at 11:00 A.M. in the city of Placentia. When a family member returned to the house at approximately 1:00 P.M., Harrod was gone.

http://placentia.org/DocumentView.aspx?DID=102

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Harrod was last seen at his residence in the 500 block of Carnation Drive Placentia, California sometime between 11:00 a.m. and 12:00 p.m. on July 27, 2009. His son-in-law went to the store and when he returned at 1:00 p.m., he found the front door locked, the housekeeper waiting on the porch, and Harrod missing.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...od_robert.html
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JM told police that he worked at the home then went to Home Depot about 2:40 p.m. to buy supplies. When he returned about 3:30 p.m., Bob's housekeeper was sitting on the front stoop because no one had answered the door.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...ppeared08.html

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About 2:30 p.m. was the last time anyone says they saw Bob Harrod.
JM said he returned to the house after 3 p.m. to find the Harrods' longtime maid sitting on the front stoop, saying the door was locked.

http://www.ocregister.com/news/-214111--.html

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According to the police report, JuM and JeM told Fontelle Mr. Harrod was last seen at 11am.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #6

Actually, when it comes to a missing elderly person and allegedly a suspicious black vehicle, I would have been waiting at PPD until they carried me out bodily.

Why call Fontelle in MO and ask her to call in a MP report?

I am with you Cracka-I think that something went down in the heat of the moment. And even now, it is a situation that is recoverable. A possible manslaughter and some kind of illegal burial charge (speculation) looks much different than a conspiracy to commit murder for financial gain.

JMO then again I am a civilian.

believe09 said:

Actually, when it comes to a missing elderly person and allegedly a suspicious black vehicle, I would have been waiting at PPD until they carried me out bodily.

Why call Fontelle in MO and ask her to call in a MP report?

I am with you Cracka-I think that something went down in the heat of the moment. And even now, it is a situation that is recoverable. A possible manslaughter and some kind of illegal burial charge (speculation) looks much different than a conspiracy to commit murder for financial gain.

JMO then again I am a civilian.

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BBM. I agree. Especially knowing there was a tremendous amount of stress within this family as early as January 2009 and likely beginning with the first Mrs. Harrods passing in March of 2008.

I've always had a strong gut feeling a combination of many stressful events over the 12-18 or so months prior to Mr. Harrods disappearance may have come to a head that morning.

jmo of course.

believe09 said:

I am with you Cracka-I think that something went down in the heat of the moment. And even now, it is a situation that is recoverable. A possible manslaughter and some kind of illegal burial charge (speculation) looks much different than a conspiracy to commit murder for financial gain.

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The 'heat of the moment' scenario makes sense to me. Except, did the cleaning woman ever say that she actually saw Bob the day she was there? Supposedly, she spoke to him on the phone, but I don't know for sure.

If she did speak to someone- maybe JeM pretending to be Bob- why would he tell her to come over? Could he have been setting up an alibi? If it was Bob, then he was in good enough health to speak to and ask the cleaning woman to come over. Did he sound upset on the phone- just hours after the huge blowup? Why would he need her to come over on that particular day? I'm thinking that we don't have all the facts and possibly the police are holding back info.

As far as Julie giving all the different times, I don't see that it really matters much. We have to go by the last time someone other than a family member last saw or spoke to Bob. Would that have been Fontelle the night before? Or the cleaning woman? The POI is the one giving the timeline, so how can any of it be believed?

Here's a thought ... What if Bob was killed the night before during the argument. He could have been sneaked out of the house under the cover of darkness. JeM going over the following day could have been an attempt to throw off the police and the timeline. If no one saw JeM's vehicle, maybe it wasn't actually there until 2:30pm. Or maybe he stayed overnight cleaning up any evidence at the house.

I don't know if these things were brought up before, but I'm trying to think outside the box a bit. But whatever I come up with, it still seems to point to the SIL. I really feel that he is covering up something.

Any thoughts on this?

Cubby said:

I've always had a strong gut feeling a combination of many stressful events over the 12-18 or so months prior to Mr. Harrods disappearance may have come to a head that morning.

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When it comes to the family dynamic, usually things are not very simple. Anger, strong enough to end in murder, usually builds up over a period of time. Fontelle was probably the last straw and one of the daughters might have lashed out in a fit of rage. I think the rest of the family is complicate in the cover-up.

Could someone tell me how long a drive it was from Bob's house to JeM's house? How far were the other sister's homes?

I agree substantially Cracka-I *think* LE has been pretty clear that there was an independent call that gives a last known time for Bob. I am certain it is the cleaning woman. She was unexpected-SIL had no idea until he returned to the residence that she was going to be there as it was not her day.

I suspect she has quite a bit of information she has shared with LE regarding demeanor, and what was going on inside of the home prior to her departure, as she and SIL were there together. IIRC, she left first.

I oftern think about her-to be blunt if SIL were some kind of depraved something, she would perhaps have not been available to give LE timeline information, which is one of the reasons I continue to consider heat of the moment.

believe09 said:

I agree substantially Cracka-I *think* LE has been pretty clear that there was an independent call that gives a last known time for Bob. I am certain it is the cleaning woman. She was unexpected-SIL had no idea until he returned to the residence that she was going to be there as it was not her day.

I often think about her-to be blunt if SIL were some kind of depraved something, she would perhaps have not been available to give LE timeline information, which is one of the reasons I continue to consider heat of the moment.

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Not completely understanding you here. You seem to think that Bob spoke to the cleaning woman that morning- I don't remember what time this might have been. The SIL was not expecting her. Do you think the cleaning woman was afraid to say what she really thought? Or is LE withholding that?

OK, but that would mean that the 'heat of the moment' incident happened after the phone call with the cleaning woman. It would have been a continuation of the argument the night before. If Bob was struck by someone at that time, the SIN could have somehow gotten the body out into the car. But that sounds pretty risky to me.

Possibly the body was left in the cluttered garage to be disposed of after dark, but before the police went over for the welfare check at about 9pm. But if the SIL wasn't expecting the cleaning woman, and he let her into the house right away, Bob's body would have to already be in the garage or was already driven away during daylight hours ... It would almost seem like the SIL was expecting the cleaning woman. I suppose Bob could have mentioned it during a second argument.

Cracka*Jaxx said:

When it comes to the family dynamic, usually things are not very simple. Anger, strong enough to end in murder, usually builds up over a period of time. Fontelle was probably the last straw and one of the daughters might have lashed out in a fit of rage. I think the rest of the family is complicate in the cover-up.

Could someone tell me how long a drive it was from Bob's house to JeM's house? How far were the other sister's homes?

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PB: 30.9 mi – about 37 mins drive to/from Bob’s house (up to 1 hour 20 mins in traffic)

RB: 19.6 mi – about 26 mins drive to/from Bob’s house (up to 1 hour 0 mins in traffic)

JM: 66.3 mi – about 1 hour 23 mins drive to/from Bob’s house (up to 3 hours 10 mins in traffic)

Cracka*Jaxx said:

Not completely understanding you here. You seem to think that Bob spoke to the cleaning woman that morning- I don't remember what time this might have been. The SIL was not expecting her. Do you think the cleaning woman was afraid to say what she really thought? Or is LE withholding that?

OK, but that would mean that the 'heat of the moment' incident happened after the phone call with the cleaning woman. It would have been a continuation of the argument the night before. If Bob was struck by someone at that time, the SIN could have somehow gotten the body out into the car. But that sounds pretty risky to me.

Possibly the body was left in the cluttered garage to be disposed of after dark, but before the police went over for the welfare check at about 9pm. But if the SIL wasn't expecting the cleaning woman, and he let her into the house right away, Bob's body would have to already be in the garage or was already driven away during daylight hours ... It would almost seem like the SIL was expecting the cleaning woman. I suppose Bob could have mentioned it during a second argument.

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Bob Harrod talked to the housekeeper on the phone earlier that morning and told her to come. (Ref OC Register)

Officials have said that at 10 a.m. July 27 there was a phone call to Bob Harrod, which is the last time anyone other than Jeff Michaels verified he was at the house. Police are not releasing the content of those phone records. (Ref comment posted by reporter under OC Register article)

About 9:30 a.m., Bob's son-in-law Jeff Michaels arrived to help get the house ready.Michaels told police that he worked at the home, then went to Home Depot about 2:40 p.m. to buy supplies. When he returned about 3:30 p.m., Bob's housekeeper was sitting on the front stoop because no one had answered the door. Michaels let himself in the back door and the housekeeper followed and cleaned. (Ref LA Times)

According to what Julie told Fontelle, Bob was last seen by Jeff at about 11:00AM (Ref Missing Persons Report)

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-disappeared3-2010feb03,0,5316687,comment-display-all.story
http://www2.ocregister.com/articles/harrod-bob-police-2598739-fontelle-michaels?orderby=TimeStampAscending&showRecommende dOnly=1&oncommentsPage=2#slComments

cloudajo said:

PB: 30.9 mi – about 37 mins drive to/from Bob’s house (up to 1 hour 20 mins in traffic)

RB: 19.6 mi – about 26 mins drive to/from Bob’s house (up to 1 hour 0 mins in traffic)

JM: 66.3 mi – about 1 hour 23 mins drive to/from Bob’s house (up to 3 hours 10 mins in traffic)

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Thanks. cloudajo! JeM took an awfully long drive to do house repairs for Bob- especially in light of the argument just several hours earlier. In my mind it's more likely that he went there to FINISH the argument.

Cracka*Jaxx said:

Thanks. cloudajo! JeM took an awfully long drive to do house repairs for Bob- especially in light of the argument just several hours earlier. In my mind it's more likely that he went there to FINISH the argument.

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BBM~~~

I agree. I believe the last phonecall Mr. Harrod received was before JeM arrived. I think JeM was very surprised to find the cleaning woman on the front porch.

It would be interesting to know if JeM told her to stay out of any rooms in the house. Also, I wonder if she observed JeM doing any "home repairs." If she did, it would be interesting to know exactly what the repairs were. Was there some damage done during a struggle that needed to be repaired?

Just asking.

Somewhere buried in these threads is a car dealership sales video of the type of truck SIL drives. I wish I could find it. I will or if someone else finds it perhaps they will post it first.

OMGosh, Cubby-the one with the full grown man hiding in the drop down trunk?

Cubby said:

Somewhere buried in these threads is a car dealership sales video of the type of truck SIL drives. I wish I could find it. I will or if someone else finds it perhaps they will post it first.

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Example videos found on You Tube show full grown man and teenager in the trunk of a Honda Ridgeline, similar to JeM's truck.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7c7JeIgNHiw&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kc2GMvtiorg&NR=1&feature=fvwp

Angelo said:

BBM~~~

I believe the last phonecall Mr. Harrod received was before JeM arrived. I think JeM was very surprised to find the cleaning woman on the front porch.

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I'm sure he was. But I wonder if he breathed a sigh of relief knowing that Bob was somewhere out of site and/or any mess had been already attended to.

It would be interesting to know if JeM told her to stay out of any rooms in the house. Also, I wonder if she observed JeM doing any "home repairs." If she did, it would be interesting to know exactly what the repairs were. Was there some damage done during a struggle that needed to be repaired?

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I also wondered about him asking her to stay out of certain areas. But if I were him, and I was guilty, I would have asked that she return another time. He could have pretended to make a quick check of the house, claim that no one was home and something must have come up. I would NEVER have let her inside the house.

Of course, maybe he did go inside and move the body to the garage before allowing her to go in. She might have a lot more info that she has confided to LE.

There's such a small window of opportunity for foul play. And for most of that time the POI have claimed to be with Bob, pretty much putting themselves at the scene of the crime. It's too bad there wasn't a video camera somewhere to confirm JeM's comings and goings.

All in all, knowing now that the cleaning woman actually spoke to Bob that morning, I'm leaning towards JeM arriving to confront Bob about the argument from the night before. Maybe Julie was with him. Somehow, Bob was struck with a fatal blow- maybe not even drawing blood. His body was dragged to the cluttered garage temporarily.

JeM assumed that someone in the neighborhood probably saw him at the house. So, in an attempt at coming up with an alibi, JeM came and went on a few errands at different times- the pharmacy and Home Depot. It's possible that a few individuals went back after dark and picked up the body for disposal. As soon as they left the grandson called the police for a welfare check.

believe09 said:

OMGosh, Cubby-the one with the full grown man hiding in the drop down trunk?

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OMG, is right! That truck could have been backed up to the garage and Bob's body hidden in there in broad daylight! I remember that he was a slight man- something like 5'11", 140 lbs.

believe09 said:

OMGosh, Cubby-the one with the full grown man hiding in the drop down trunk?

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Yes!! It is the first of the two Cloudajo found.
Thank you very much for finding it Cloudajo.