ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - # 5

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UKgirl said:
Sorry must be here somewhere but I have missed it.

Whats the time difference in her going missing (last seen at restaurant) and GG coming back to the restaurant later.

Was the car moved, did they drive anywhere or was the beach quite close to the restaurant.

Whats with the plastic blue cups?

I wonder why she went to the bathroom so many times, they were only there for an hour.
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If I remember correctly they left the restaurant around 4:12 Pm and he was seen on surveillance video back at the restaurant a little around 6 - 6:15 PM. I'm not sure how close the beach was to the restaurant. The blue plastic cups, according to reports, had vodka and orange juice which they brought with them and he went back to the car to refill, also according to videos and witnesses. Maybe she went to the restroom to check her phone messages, or if she was drinking alcohol w/ o.j. , well, you know, it can make you need to urinate more? Or, maybe she had other reasons we may never know.:(
 
Peliman said:
He wouldn't have known? I'd say when she didn't surface he had an emergency. Yes getting her help was an emergency, I don't buy he didn't know.
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Well, according to reports (if they are believable) he swam to shore without checking to see if she was following. When he got there she wasnt around, so he wouldn't have know if she was still in the water or had passed him, reached the shore and had gone somewhere else. Or perhaps she had come out of the water further up or down the coast. He just wouldn't have known where she was. He would have gone looking for her first, and then eventually when all reasonable possibilities were exhausted, gone looking for help. Unless he actually saw her in distress there is no reason for him to have been panicking at that point (unless he had a hysterical personality, and there is no indication of that).

The first response of most normal people in a situation like that is that the other person was allready on shore somewhere, not that they had drowned. Who on earth thinks "oh, I can't see them, so they must have drowned"???

In any case, even if he did know that she had drowned, running around like a crazy person would not have changed that fact. It is not how most men would react. Women maybe, but not men.
 
Tugela said:
The Aruban legal system doesn't use juries.
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Thanks, I did not know that.

So in that case, evidence is whatever the court allows to be presented. As I have said before, people often misconstrue the meaning of the term. I'm just pointing out that all of the facts and circumstances, right down to the looks on peoples' faces, can be evidence in a trial. And it's the totality that counts, and whether the fact-finder (be it a judge or a jury) is convinced.
 
Tugela said:
If you are walking on coral you always wear shoes (coral is sharp). Having wet shoes on is not unexpected in that situation.
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Most people don't wear shoes while snorkeling, though.
 
neesaki said:
Totally agree, do you have any idea at all why they haven't brought in search dogs? Thx:)
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No idea. I have the same info as everyone else, which isn't much. My guess is money. Either that or they have credible evidence she is not on land. I tend to think the former, though....
 
Tugela said:
Well, according to reports (if they are believable) he swam to shore without checking to see if she was following. When he got there she wasnt around, so he wouldn't have know if she was still in the water or had passed him, reached the shore and had gone somewhere else. Or perhaps she had come out of the water further up or down the coast. He just wouldn't have known where she was. He would have gone looking for her first, and then eventually when all reasonable possibilities were exhausted, gone looking for help. Unless he actually saw her in distress there is no reason for him to have been panicking at that point (unless he had a hysterical personality, and there is no indication of that).

The first response of most normal people in a situation like that is that the other person was allready on shore somewhere, not that they had drowned. Who on earth thinks "oh, I can't see them, so they must have drowned"???

In any case, even if he did know that she had drowned, running around like a crazy person would not have changed that fact. It is not how most men would react. Women maybe, but not men.
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I respectfully disagree. I think most men snorkling with a female companion (whom they're sharing a vacation, a hotel room, and a bed with), after saying something along the lines of "the water's rough, we should head in," would monitor their companion's progress and not take an 'every man for himself' approach to reaching shore. Heck, on the restaurant video tape, just walking to and from the car, he'd occasionally look back at her or slow down to wait for her. I guess in rough waters, old GG's gallantry is much diminished.

Then he got to shore or the car where he presumably put on shoes. And saw that Robyn's clothes, shoes, etc were still there. Unless she went snorkling in a maxi dress and sandals. They were in supposedly rough waters, needed to urgently swim to shore, and then he ... didn't see Robyn and assumed she must be fine, dressless, shoeless, purseless, phoneless ... and that she went ahead on foot somewhere else?

Drowning would be anyone, man or woman's, first presumption if the story went as HE HIMSELF described. Rough waters, swim back to shore, turn around, she's not there, and according to him, he then ran to get help... because he presumed she was still in the water.

I'd venture to say a stranger would have tried harder to rouse help than her own date did.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1108/11/ijvm.01.html

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, if you look at Martin Savidge, who is standing right there -- maybe we can go back to him for a second. Thank you for -- just to see the water behind you. This is Baby Beach. It`s so calm.

And I want to bring in Mike Brooks, because you could see Martin Savidge standing there at Baby Beach. This is like a lake. That`s why they call it Baby Beach. And here is the attorney claiming, "Oh, it was rough." I mean, we know, Mike, that an area that`s called Baby Beach is not going to have waves that`s going to carry somebody away.

MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: No, but one of the things Marty has been reporting, when the daylight was out, that just over his shoulder and around the corner, when you get past the breakers, it does look rough. You could see it.

You know, is there a possibility she could have gotten caught in some kind of rip current and that kind of thing carried her out? Yes. But if you`re swimming with somebody, if I was swimming with somebody, I`d want to know -- I would have them right with me. I wouldn`t leave them in the water. His story just is not making any sense, Jane. None whatsoever.
 
annalia said:
But ABC never said where the photos came from.

Martin Savage from CNN reported that he spoke directly to authorities and that's who told him that it was a worker.
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My mistake
I thought i read ABC

Really, they have the photos
I simply don't get a stranger shooting pictures of another stranger
 
Micheline said:
In the video's released today it is shown (allegedly) that Robyn and GG were at the same area the day before.

Their car passes the restaurant at 3:09, then at 3:41 they are walking the beach behind the restaurant.

I assume the licence plate of the car being checked, and this being RG and GG.

That means they drove by, parked the car, walked around (not being captured on video on Baby Beach) and still were walking around at 3:41, so they walked there for around 30 minutes, which is a long time to walk there, the hottest time of day, they were both fully dressed and it seems GG it wearing long trousers.

Why would anyone walk that area fully dressed for 30 minutes, they only had 5 days to spend on the island, it is not a gorgeous place, not an interesting place either.


If GG had plans as some think he had, then what would he tell Robyn about what exactly they were doing there? Would she just walk around, no questions asked, around 33 C, in a long dress, why would she?

And then the next day again they go there, again "explore" the beach behind the Rum Reef, and Robyn (who was staying in a really beautiful hotel with a nice pool and beach/private island) would then still not wonder why again she was taken to that place?

If their intention was to go into the sea or to suntan there, they could have done so the day before.
If Gary had sinister plans, then would it not have been more convenient for him the day the restaurant was closed?
If he wanted to explore the area, if Robyn took sleeping pills that day, and probably slept some time during the day, then Gary could have explored the area without Robyn, without the risk she may be wondering why GG took her to this unappealing place twice.
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Micheline,

I happen to agree with EVERYTHING you have said.
Maybe the authorities should take a closer look at "the Rum Reef Inn"--seems to at the center of 2 days worth of visits.
 
I forgot to add in my last post...

This is all presuming they actually went snorkling and that any of the story GG told the ALE is true.

AFAIK, the only witness that has come forward is the beneficiary to a 1.5 million dollar insurance policy... who has a history with commiting fraud.
 
The beach is a significant distance from the restaurant. He would have driven to it. He apparently felt it was important to report her missing to someone in person, as he had a cell phone in his possessions. Assuming he knew it would take this much knocking on doors, etc. and was part of the plan however is a stretch.
The last photos of them are from a surveillance camera, not a blackberry. If you look at JADS FB you can see the cameras. I don't have the exact link.
http://facebook.com/jadsaruba
He was scouting the area the day before IMO. He also wanted to have more sex with her before killing her, so that is why the death occurred on Aug 2. MOO.
The case will get a murder conviction because of the fraud on her beneficiary form, the 1.5 million dollar premium policy taken out on her, his story inconsistencies, his past showing his character towards women, and the fact future Aruba tourism depends on getting tough on this type of crime. MOO.
 
Micheline said:
In their video of today they said these two photo's were taken with a Blackberry (see the video linked several times on the page before this one).

I asume the ones taken with the Balckberry are the same ones Savidge is referring to.


Or maybe both are confused and the ones taken with the Balckberry were the ones of Robyn sitting with the menu card in front of her, on which her tattoo's are very prominent, same dress too.

So far I have seen no one confirming if those pics could be taken at Rum Reef, while it must not be that difficult to figure out, IMO.
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--------------

Thank you for that. I was also wondering the same thing, although you stated it more clearly.

Clarity of the facts being reported is what we need. However, that seems to be lacking in so many cases.
 
HatesSociopaths said:
The beach is a significant distance from the restaurant. He would have driven to it. He apparently felt it was important to report her missing to someone in person, as he had a cell phone in his possessions.QUOTE]

Yes. If you had a cell phone and someone was in danger you would call for help, not bang on shutters, IMO.
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Why would GVG and RG go to that place twice and walk around?

IMO, what I posted from thread 1 is: I think GVG told RG that they were scouting locations for photo/video shoots.
 
HatesSociopaths said:
The beach is a significant distance from the restaurant. He would have driven to it. He apparently felt it was important to report her missing to someone in person, as he had a cell phone in his possessions. Assuming he knew it would take this much knocking on doors, etc. and was part of the plan however is a stretch.
The last photos of them are from a surveillance camera, not a blackberry. If you look at JADS FB you can see the cameras. I don't have the exact link.
http://facebook.com/jadsaruba
He was scouting the area the day before IMO. He also wanted to have more sex with her before killing her, so that is why the death occurred on Aug 2. MOO.
The case will get a murder conviction because of the fraud on her beneficiary form, the 1.5 million dollar premium policy taken out on her, his story inconsistencies, his past showing his character towards women, and the fact future Aruba tourism depends on getting tough on this type of crime. MOO.
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my bolding

We don't know yet that it was fraud, but hopefully they've examined the signatures on the policies, comparing it to different samples of RG's signature. I don't know how the other policy that he took out when he traveled with the other woman will affect this case, but I wonder if that could actually work in his favor.

I think he is responsible for what happened to her, but I will be shocked if they do charge him with murder without finding RG's body.

ETA Just wanted to add that if experts do conclude that he forged the documents, they probably have a stronger case.
JMHO
 
HatesSociopaths said:
The beach is a significant distance from the restaurant. He would have driven to it. He apparently felt it was important to report her missing to someone in person, as he had a cell phone in his possessions. Assuming he knew it would take this much knocking on doors, etc. and was part of the plan however is a stretch.
The last photos of them are from a surveillance camera, not a blackberry. If you look at JADS FB you can see the cameras. I don't have the exact link.
http://facebook.com/jadsaruba
He was scouting the area the day before IMO. He also wanted to have more sex with her before killing her, so that is why the death occurred on Aug 2. MOO.
The case will get a murder conviction because of the fraud on her beneficiary form, the 1.5 million dollar premium policy taken out on her, his story inconsistencies, his past showing his character towards women, and the fact future Aruba tourism depends on getting tough on this type of crime. MOO.
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Not all cell phones work on Aruba
Surely you remember that from the NH case

I thought I read he borrowed a cell phone from someone on the beach?
So far, there is a great deal of circumstantial evidence
I have yet to read whether the signature is a forgery
Have you read that somewhere?
Do you have a link?
 
neesaki said:
Totally agree, do you have any idea at all why they haven't brought in search dogs? Thx:)
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According to this article from August, they have to request it from the Netherlands. Why they haven't done that yet is anyones guess, or maybe they have sent the request and we just haven't heard. JMHO

http://www.amigoe.com/english/81172-explicit-pictures-of-gardner-on-giordanos-camera

He does confirm one person from the FBI, who is normally stationed in Barbados, is on the island. According to the OM, he coordinates the legal aid requests from Aruba to the United States. Stein does not expect more FIB-officers will come to the island. He states there are sufficient ‘extremely capable people’ in the Kingdom who can assist with the investigation. For example, he names a team with tracking dogs from the KLPD (Corps National Police Services) in The Netherlands that is ‘worldwide renown’ and on request could be deployed in tracing the body.
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Dushi said:
Not all cell phones work on Aruba
Surely you remember that from the NH case

I thought I read he borrowed a cell phone from someone on the beach?
So far, there is a great deal of circumstantial evidence
I have yet to read whether the signature is a forgery
Have you read that somewhere?
Do you have a link?
Click to expand...

Solicitor General Taco Stein said they are considering a range of possible charges, including murder, manslaughter, accidental death and insurance fraud.
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/9824660
 
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