Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox Conviction Overturned #22

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otto said:
Exactly. The first two statements, given at 1:45 AM and 5:30 AM could not be used against her, but the statements she made after that, especially her "gift" note, could be used against her and were.
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That's correct, the 'gift note' was admissible, while the other statements weren't, because they violated Italian law and her rights under those laws - because she should have been declared a suspect right off and treated accordingly but wasn't. Please note, when I say rights violations, I'm not talking about the whole 'hit on the head, no food, no drink' thing, only that they were obligated to inform her that she was a suspect, supply her with a lawyer, and start recording.

The Italian high court, like those in the US & UK, doesn't just toss statements willy-nilly, they have to have very, very good reasons for doing so, and in this case it was the above. I really don't understand the resistance to the concept of PLE trying a pretty standard trick and getting called on it. It's not like I'm accusing them of waterboarding her!
 
otto said:
No, but I have seen video footage during the last four years. No one disputes that Knox was flipping cartwheels - not even Bremner - so I'm not sure why some people are trying to make it disappear.

The cartwheels were probably an attempt to get the wrong type of attention from the male officer that told her to "cut it out". I think she expected a different kind of reaction from him.
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You saw video footage of AK turning cartwheels at the police station?
Link?
 
otto said:
No, but I have seen video footage during the last four years. No one disputes that Knox was flipping cartwheels - not even Bremner - so I'm not sure why some people are trying to make it disappear.

The cartwheels were probably an attempt to get the wrong type of attention from the male officer that told her to "cut it out". I think she expected a different kind of reaction from him.
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And we're back to 'Amanda's a wanton *advertiser censored*' innuendos. Only a matter of time.
 
otto said:
The police station is a large building with large corridors. There was plenty of room to flip cartwheels and do the splits.

Those that believe everyone related to the murder investigation is a liar and Knox is telling the truth will always find a way to justify every abnormal thing Knox said and did.
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This defies common logic. In any police station there would authorized areas and unauthorized areas. It is not like you are able to wander around and scope the place out in order to do cartwheels.

It is not the Price is Right where you can say hey lets look behind door number 1, nope not good enough lets look behind door number 2, darn door number 2 was no fun lets check behind door number 3, hey wonder what files are in the police chiefs office.
 
otto said:
There has never been a request, that I'm aware of, regarding recordings of either Knox or Sollecito.
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Once again there is no logic to this.

The easiest way the defense could clear up what was said/done in an interrogation would be to request the video/audio.

Alas though we have heard varying stories as to why they could not be produced ranging from they forgot right down to budget cuts. Why would the PLE be comming up with these excuses if they had not been requested?
 
otto said:
According to Knox, Patrick is a rapist and murderer, police beat her during 2 hours of questioning as a witness, she was traumatized because she was deprived of food and water during two hours of questioning, a prison official sexually harassed her, other prison inmates are lesbians and came on to her.

She is convicted of telling a whopper lie regarding Patrick, sentenced to three years in prison and ordered to pay Patrick thousands of euros in compensation. Apparently this was not enough to stop her from telling more whopper lies. She is facing trial regarding allegations against the police during her two hours of questioning. She was imprisoned for sexually violent murder so it's not surprising that part of her rehabilitation included discussion about sexual values, and I suspect the other prisoners will not be happy to hear that Knox is calling them lesbians.

Knox is a liar. This we know. We know that when she lies, resulting in other people suffering severe consequences, she will do nothing to bring forth the truth. She admittedly cannot distinguish between reality and fantasy. I see no reason to believe anything Knox says about others. All her stories seem to focus on sex and violence, so it's no surprise that she is still spinning the same stories.
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Once a liar, always a liar? No. I am stunned by your lack of sensitivity to sexual harassment of a young female prisoner; a wrongly convicted one, I might add. So much for victim's rights. I hope her family sues.
 
SkewedView said:
And we're back to 'Amanda's a wanton *advertiser censored*' innuendos. Only a matter of time.
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Really frightening. Nina Burleigh was correct, when she said, it does not take much for some people to devolve to being ignited by the old stereotypes, the old archetypes of "*advertiser censored*", "witch", "enchantress", "Luciferina". Oy, vey. :(
 
Setting aside the cartwheel bit for a second. If she was just stretching, why is that inappropriate? You're sitting in an uncomfortable chair for a long period of time. Heck, when I'm at work in a more cushy chair, I get up from time to time and do a few basic stretches, some of which are yoga poses. I don't understand what's wrong or inappropriate about that.
 
otto said:
No, but I have seen video footage during the last four years. No one disputes that Knox was flipping cartwheels - not even Bremner - so I'm not sure why some people are trying to make it disappear.

The cartwheels were probably an attempt to get the wrong type of attention from the male officer that told her to "cut it out". I think she expected a different kind of reaction from him.
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otto,

I find it interesting that given so much attention from Dr. Giobbi on Amanda's behavior, the first mention of cartwheels and splits is not until early 2009 during the trial. Amanda's testimony was that an officer commented on her flexibility. There are several sources of information on the subject of what actually happened, including articles by Frank Sfarzo and Steve Shay. Putting all of it together, I think that a possible scenario is the following: An officer is sent to chat up Knox, partly to divert her attention away from where Sollecito is. He finds Ms. Knox doing yoga poses, and he comments on her flexibility, possibly asking if she can do the splits. She obliges, and then we don't hear about it again until the trial. I might find the account given by PLE more credible if their noses were not so long already.
 
otto said:
Knox was not asked to go to the police station on the night that she accused Patrick. There is no way around that. She went there because she was tagging along with Sollecito and for no other reason. Police had no reason to expect her.
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otto,

Dr. Giobbi testified that he gave the order to bring them both in. There is no way to get around that. BTW he also testified he heard Amanda scream. So much for the tea-and-crumpets version of the interrogation that PLE put forward.
 
Malkmus,

You found a link one time that collected news from Italy about the case. One of the links suggested that as of the day of 5 November, one or more witnesses was likely going to be named a suspect. Do you have the citation handy?
ETA
Here is a link at JREF that gives the text of some information found elsewhere on the web. Unfortunately the original link (to truecrimeweblog) did not work the last time I clicked on it. It read in part, "Monday, 5 November 2007 -- Ominous words: 'It is not excluded that in the next few hours one of the many persons interviewed in recent days might be converted into a suspect.'"
 
otto said:
No, but I have seen video footage during the last four years. No one disputes that Knox was flipping cartwheels - not even Bremner - so I'm not sure why some people are trying to make it disappear.

The cartwheels were probably an attempt to get the wrong type of attention from the male officer that told her to "cut it out". I think she expected a different kind of reaction from him.
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There is something fundamentally wrong with this thought process
 
Chris_Halkides said:
Malkmus,

You found a link one time that collected news from Italy about the case. One of the links suggested that as of the day of 5 November, one or more witnesses was likely going to be named a suspect. Do you have the citation handy?
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I found it on the true crime weblog - which morphed into PMF. That site is dead now. But here is the quote:

"Monday, 5 November 2007 -- Ominous words:'It is not excluded that in the next few hours one of the many persons interviewed in recent days might be converted into a suspect.'"
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Rose seemed to have located the original:

Fortunately the Wayback Machine has crawled this.

http://web.archive.org/web/200812090...s-etc-t11.html

The original quote seems to come from here:

http://web.archive.org/web/200906161...odiascolto.it/
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http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=7258499#post7258499
 
Allusonz said:
There is something fundamentally wrong with this thought process
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Yes. And it is as old as the hills. Why is it being assumed that Amanda wanted "the wrong kind of attention" from a male police officer??:waitasec::furious:
 
When you add the police's statements up, it's easy to see what happened:


Those just past "have been four days and nights of continuous surveys which have seen the men of the Flying Squad in Perugia, the SCO, Erta and postal police work synergistically with a deployment of forces and means." So the police chief of Perugia, Arturo De Felice, this morning during a press conference,
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"Monday, 5 November 2007 -- Ominous words:'It is not excluded that in the next few hours one of the many persons interviewed in recent days might be converted into a suspect.'"
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"Initially the American (Knox) gave a version of events we knew was not correct. She buckled and made an admission of facts we knew were correct and from that we were able to bring them in. They all participated but had different roles."
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November 6 - "Case Closed"
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LinasK said:
Yes, it is, because in any case, whether it was just Yoga stretches, the splits, or cartwheels- NONE of which are appropriate in the environment of a police station, especially when you are in such a grave situation as to be a main suspect in a murder investigation. It's as bizarre and self-centered behavior as Casey Anthony renting videos with her boyfriend hours after her daughter "disappeared", but in reality was already dead! Or Scott Peterson having drinks while his wife was also "missing", but really also already dead!!!
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I didn't think she was a main suspect at this point?
 
"Baez said that the Knox verdict was strange for him, as he felt the same feelings when Casey Anthony was acquitted a few months ago.

It was "a very surreal moment for me because I remembered being in that situation -- where a young woman's life hung in the balance -- and in a split second, her life was given back to her," Baez said, adding that Casey and Amanda are just a "pair of All American girls."

http://celebs./viewArticle.action?articleId=281474980535995
 
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