Human Remains (*cadaver) Detection (HRD) dog questions and answers **NO DISCUSSION**

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Boodles said:
Is the reason for a "no-fly zone" during a search related to the use of dogs specifically and, if so, why?

Several sources mentioned requests that no video be shot in proximity to search areas due to the techniques being used (I took that to mean it was in reference to the dogs). Is there something the dogs do that, if known, would tip off a criminal somehow (I'm not asking what that might be)?
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Lots of reasons come to mind. The noise is distracting, and tiring, and annoying for both the handler and the dog (truthfully I think it's harder for us to focus than the dog, but the just my opinion).
Choppers can actually disturb scent as well as evidence.
LE does not want the guilty to know what they have found until they are ready. By showing it on tv, it can become pretty obvious if they're in the right spot or not.
There are SAR members and LE who want or need to remain private, for both work and safety reasons.
There are techniques/methods being used out there that are confidential for a variety of reasons.
 
Nancee Drue said:
Can the scent of a deceased, decomposed body be tracked to a certain person, or are all deceased, decomposed human scents the same?

If a decomposed scent was on the sheets, or carpet, and those items were cleaned, or replaced...will the scent remain?

thank you
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Bumping, have the same first question but did not see a response to it, only the second question had a response. Thanks!
 
twall said:
Bumping, have the same first question but did not see a response to it, only the second question had a response. Thanks!
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Dogs can discriminate scent for most anything. They are now using dogs to seek out specific endangered plants in areas (as an example). It just depends on what they were trained for.
 
If someone else- a pervious owner, died in the house that baby Lisa disappeared from, would a scent dog hit on the previous owners scent? Or on baby Lisa's scent? TIA!
 
What I really should have said was a more recent death. I don't know it to be Lisa. Heck, maybe someone snuck in in the middle of the night and offed someone right there, total coincidence...:floorlaugh:
OMG, clearly I need to go to bed, I have now gone to snark.
 
That totally wasn't directed at your marge, hope u know that. Or anyone for that matter. I am seriously starting to get loopy. My head is pounding, I need to sign off for a bit.
Hopefully I have answered enough questions that when the new folks start coming in and repeating someone can just cut and paste for me!

Please know that I will always try to answer the question and don't be afraid to ask, even if you think it's stupid (and if it is stupid, I'm nice, I'll answer it, so don't worry!)
 
norest4thewicked said:
I know a SAR expert personally and just asked the question about whether a person who had died in a house 10 years ago would still leave decomp that the dogs would hit on. His answer was that they would not unless the dogs were the specialized dogs above that you mentioned. I'm just trying to clarify this with you also as an expert. Do you believe that if a person had died in that house 10 years ago that it might give the dogs in Lisa's case a false hit?
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Someone just asked me this as well- and I tried to explain. Haven't had a chance to go through all posts yet, so sarx- please forgive if you already answered this.

The SAR person that you spoke with was not specific enough, I don't think. It depends on what kind, what amount, and for how long decomp was present at the site.

So let's say someone died, on berber carpet, that covered a pine wood floor- and lay there for four days before being discovered, during a heat wave.
Heck yeah- 10 years later, an HRD dog will likely hit on the substrate, even if the carpet has been replaced because the substrate is so porous it has retained HRD scent particles. Make sense?
 
Oriah said:
Someone just asked me this as well- and I tried to explain. Haven't had a chance to go through all posts yet, so sarx- please forgive if you already answered this.

The SAR person that you spoke with was not specific enough, I don't think. It depends on what kind, what amount, and for how long decomp was present at the site.

So let's say someone died, on berber carpet, that covering a pine wood floor- and lay there for four days before being discovered, during a heat wave.
Heck yeah- 10 years later, an HRD dog will likely hit on the substrate, even if the carpet has been replaced because the substrate is so porous it has retained HRD scent particles. Make sense?
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Yep, that's pretty much what I said, though, we've been talking a whole lot about possible transfer scent and/or no direct contact as well.
Glad you're in, I'm out for the day, so enjoy!
 
sarx said:
Yep, that's pretty much what I said, though, we've been talking a whole lot about possible transfer scent and/or no direct contact as well.
Glad you're in, I'm out for the day, so enjoy!
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BBM: was that a question? This is a Q & A forum. If it was- answer: I hate you. Go to sleep, lol.
 
Scent transfer as in- from handlers? Or from the residents? or from another decedent?
So confused. Changing my mind- you're not allowed to go to sleep until I am unconfused.
 
marge_rita said:
If someone else- a pervious owner, died in the house that baby Lisa disappeared from, would a scent dog hit on the previous owners scent? Or on baby Lisa's scent? TIA!
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Okay- I'm gonna try and explain this one. It was/is presumed Lisa was kidnapped initially. Tracking/trailing dogs were brought in. Those dogs would have been given a scent article of Lisa's and would have tried to follow Lisa's specific scent; either in the air, on the ground, shrubs, trees, etc. Anything the 'live' scent may have 'fallen' on. They would not be following any other scent, except for Lisa's.

Then time passes. It is suspected that Lisa may be deceased. An HRD dog brought in early on would also be given a scent article of Lisa's- but it would be trained to alert on a deceased Lisa. :(

Then MORE time passes. A differently trained kind of HRD dog might be brought in to see if it alerts on ANY HRD scent particles.

Does this make sense to anyone?
 
I might add, I was trying not to give the perfect storm reasons as to why a dog would be hitting otherwise in the house because people have been so focused on it, and tried to explain being able to read your dog on new vs. old scent, perhaps you can help elaborate on that as well, cuz, it's a can o worms....
 
Did they bring these dogs (any dogs) to the landfill they were searching early on?

ETA another question: If the baby drown in the tub (or in an infant tub), would the dog still hit on the tub, even though the babies body would have been surrounded by water? Would they hit on the drain pipes that the water went down?
 
sarx said:
I might add, I was trying not to give the perfect storm reasons as to why a dog would be hitting otherwise in the house because people have been so focused on it, and tried to explain being able to read your dog on new vs. old scent, perhaps you can help elaborate on that as well, cuz, it's a can o worms....
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Perhaps I should have clarified my post better. Sorry, sarx.

What it comes down to is that there are different dogs trained to alert on different scents. Human decomp is a scent- it is unique to an individual until it erodes. Eroding of an HRD scent can be caused by many things, such as time, environment, manner of death, etc.

Depending upon what type of training the dog has had- they can alert to a variety of different HRD scents- even if they are all from the same individual.

Think of it like this (Oriah goes on yet another bad analogy tangent, lol):

We as humans primarily go by sight recognition to identify age.

So let's say we take a trip to Walmart. We see a baby at Walmart and think- oh- that's a cute newborn! Or, look honey- that little guy just started walking! Looks like he's about 10 months old! And then you see a teenager picking out clothes, and say to yourself- gosh teens wear such crazy clothes these days- and then you see an eldery woman sitting on the bench outside Walmart, and you think- gracious, that poor woman, she shouldn't be out in this heat, she's gotta be 90.

HRD dogs use the same discrimination for age- only instead of using sight, they use scent.

Make sense? :waitasec:
 
andalso said:
Did they bring these dogs (any dogs) to the landfill they were searching early on?

ETA another question: If the baby drown in the tub (or in an infant tub), would the dog still hit on the tub, even though the babies body would have been surrounded by water? Would they hit on the drain pipes that the water went down?
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If a person drowns in a body of water and decomp sets in- and btw that also depends upon environmental factors, such as temp of water- then an HRD dog may or may not hit on the body of water, or drain pipes.

If it's roasting hot, and someone drowns in their bathtub, and then remains there for several days before being removed...umm... yeah. An HRD dog should alert on the tub and the drainage system (if it was drained.)

If a baby drowns in a baby tub while its caregiver turns around for three minutes to answer the phone, and then frantically pulls the baby from the tub- then no. But it would alert on the baby. Does that make sense?
 
Dr. Edward David, a deputy chief medical examiner for the state of Maine and co-author of the “Cadaver Dog Handbook,” said that when a body is left in one spot for several hours, cells are left behind. They continue to decompose and create an odor, giving the dog scents to detect.

He said that while trained dogs may fail to detect the smell of human decomposition about 30 percent of the time, they generally don’t alert when nothing is there. One exception is when human waste is present.
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BBM
But..but.. :waitasec: Is this a correct statement?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...il-disturbed/2011/10/22/gIQA30xd5L_story.html
 
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