GUILTY GA - Jorelys Rivera, 7, Canton, 2 Dec 2011 - #4

tlcox said:

thanks abagal, I think you or WOO may be right. The only explanation that makes sense to me is that for whatever reason, LE was unaware that specific apartment was vacant. I just want to figure out why they may have been unaware.

I agree Bravo, I am not one to bash LE without loads of reason first, that is why I am trying so hard to figure out how this happened. I am looking for anything that would make this make sense.

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Wise Old Owl said:

We haven't had any official confirmation that the door was unlocked - have we and maybe I missed it? IIRC all that was said was that it was a vacant apt.

IF it was a newly vacated apt and the tenants skipped on the lease - then maybe the door was locked but you could get in through the back (patio or glass sliding door)?

IF the tenants had skipped - it being only the 2nd of the month - mgmt would not have that apt listed as a vacancy and would have had a tenant name.

IF the door was locked and it wasn't known at the time that the tenants had vacated - then when LE knocked and no one answered - then they would have had to move on and wait for the tenants to return (thinking they were out, working, shopping, whatever). As the numbers of apts checked dwindled - then they would have gone back to check it - then possibly going around back to find it open that way?

Again, I have no idea - just thinking out loud about how this apt stayed under the radar.

JMHO

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tlcox said:

Also, without being too graphic, carrying a live person that far may be awkward. Carrying the body of a child you have just murdered and treated in such an inhuman matter is probably a lot easier as you don't care if you are dragging it along, knocking into things, etc. I will not elaborate further because it upsets me to ponder just how easy it may have been.

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katydid23 said:

As he said in court, he left school at 15.

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stillwatersc said:

I believe they only said he had a 10th grade education - not what age he was when he quit school. I bet he had to repeat some grades and he quit school at 17 or 18. JMOO

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tlcox said:

I originally thought perhaps Jorelys was targeted as the victim because she was convenient and perhaps because she was Latino. But I do not feel that way right now. Since learning that RB speaks both English and Spanish, my thoughts on that have changed. Most folks who themselves or whose family are particularly bigotted against a group do not learn their language.

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tlcox said:

I originally thought perhaps Jorelys was targeted as the victim because she was convenient and perhaps because she was Latino. But I do not feel that way right now. Since learning that RB speaks both English and Spanish, my thoughts on that have changed. Most folks who themselves or whose family are particularly bigotted against a group do not learn their language.

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marazul said:

The only place I believe it has been stated that RB speaks Spanish was on his own personal FB page, and I have seen the language entries on FB greatly exaggerated by several people (my own former coworkers, for example.) Unless his birth family was a native spanish speaking family, I somehow doubt he spoke fluent spanish. I think that bilingual claim is made by many people with at best 8th grade uno-dos-tres, si-no spanish. A GED or 10th grade education usually doesn't reflect someone who has mastered a foreign language. I wouldn't be surprised if he could say "hello, my name is...I am the maintenance man, nice to meet you", but I would be FLOORED if he could hold an intelligent conversation in Spanish.

Also, I have seen many people who are bigoted against latinos learn spanish..OT but especially some caucasian men who seek out latina women to marry with the fantasy of having a submissive partner. Usually doesn't work out so well for them, but they do try.

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marazul said:

The only place I believe it has been stated that RB speaks Spanish was on his own personal FB page, and I have seen the language entries on FB greatly exaggerated by several people (my own former coworkers, for example.) Unless his birth family was a native spanish speaking family, I somehow doubt he spoke fluent spanish. I think that bilingual claim is made by many people with at best 8th grade uno-dos-tres, si-no spanish. A GED or 10th grade education usually doesn't reflect someone who has mastered a foreign language. I wouldn't be surprised if he could say "hello, my name is...I am the maintenance man, nice to meet you", but I would be FLOORED if he could hold an intelligent conversation in Spanish.

Also, I have seen many people who are bigoted against latinos learn spanish..OT but especially some caucasian men who seek out latina women to marry with the fantasy of having a submissive partner. Usually doesn't work out so well for them, but they do try.

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katydid23 said:

I think she was targeted because she was outside quite a bit, and relatively unsupervised at some times. I think the family babysitter had her hands full with the one and four yr old little sisters. So I think JR had some freedom to walk around and play with friends in their apartments, and come and go as she pleased. I think it would have been possible for RB to befriend her by giving her sodas and candy and talking to her, basically just by paying attention to her.

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marazul said:

The only place I believe it has been stated that RB speaks Spanish was on his own personal FB page, and I have seen the language entries on FB greatly exaggerated by several people (my own former coworkers, for example.) Unless his birth family was a native spanish speaking family, I somehow doubt he spoke fluent spanish. I think that bilingual claim is made by many people with at best 8th grade uno-dos-tres, si-no spanish. A GED or 10th grade education usually doesn't reflect someone who has mastered a foreign language. I wouldn't be surprised if he could say "hello, my name is...I am the maintenance man, nice to meet you", but I would be FLOORED if he could hold an intelligent conversation in Spanish.

Also, I have seen many people who are bigoted against latinos learn spanish..OT but especially some caucasian men who seek out latina women to marry with the fantasy of having a submissive partner. Usually doesn't work out so well for them, but they do try.

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katydid23 said:

He is a foster kid and I think he is of mixed race heritage himself. I think he looks like he is half African American or perhaps is Latino.

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mck16 said:

I swear you are in my head. Everytime I post something and go back to reading posts, you have posted the same thing. Lol I am just going to have to type faster.

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marazul said:

I agree that she most likely wasn't targeted because of her race, however it is possible IMO that RB saw her as an "easier" victim because he might wrongly assume that the family's language barrier would delay police contact, also possibly because she was frequently outside and not closely supervised, therefore it might take longer for her to be considered "missing". I do not know her play schedule, but if he saw her outside daily from, say, 3-6pm, he could think that grabbing her during that window would delay a call to LE. I guess it is even possible that he could have overheard other complex residents mentioning her freedom outside (playground moms tend to get gossipy, I know this because I am one.)
Correct me if I am wrong, but I feel that I have heard a statistic that most sexual assault/murders are interracial? Somehow the interracial part makes the perp dissociate?

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marazul said:

I agree with both of you, that is why I said that I doubt he speaks spanish unless his birth family is native spanish speaking.
Now, because we don't know his relationship with his birth family, it is possible that he has certain feelings towards the spanish speaking community that stem from his feelings towards his birth family. Could be postive OR negative, but just a thought.

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tlcox said:

RB was home schooled. It is unclear how far his education went. We have seen reports that say he achieved his GED only recently and others which seem to indicate he has not achieved it yet at all.

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At one point, he hung his head. When asked about his education level, Brunn told Judge Frank Mills that he had completed the 10th grade.

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Hickory Born said:

I am still confused. Did all 5 Brunn boys live with a foster mother? Where is there "real" mother? There "real" father is in Virginia. Was the foster mother married? How long have the boys been with the foster mother? Why didn't they live with their dad?

Sorry if this has been discussed, my computer had a virus for 3 days.

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